The prophet Muhammad WAS Illiterate
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Mazhar,
I can't see the text there. But if you are talking about writing conventions. Consult a book on Arabic writing conventions. Many times this can be found in a book either dedicated to writing conventions or in a book like Wright's who goes into much of that in the beginning of his book.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam progod
Nice journey towards truth, I appreciate. May Allah give you further strength in your mission. Your writing God bless him with Muhammad tells me that a new light is opening up to you.
However few Questions
Muhammad Peace is upon him traded for Khadija, so how was it possible to handle a business even a small one (which was not a small one as records show us) without having basic know how about numbers and other subjects prevailing at that time, he had to travel a lot and far away he could not remember all that in his mind and than tell it to khadija on return?
The Quran and hadith literature is full of statements that encourage learning and writing, How is it possible that Muhammad peace is upon him will not follow what he was saying?
some one wrote
For me that is not a very important question since Muhammad's illiteracy doesn't prove anything. The famous classical Greek poet Homer was blind and hence couldn't read or write either. But he composed one of the most famous pieces of literature. -
Peace,
As for the two seemingly different appearances of '3an'. One has a written sukoon over it, one does not. If 3an is followed by an alif that can be elides as in 'al' it will take a kasrah. 3rd person female past tenses do this too. As well, often tiimes no sukoon is written, and the way it is pronounces is presumed to be understood.
As for the last prophet being illiterate as a trader. Illiteracy comes in different levels. One can know numbers and still be illiterate. Also illiterate people are not stupid and some have great memories and even nacks for telling stories. All I can say is that being intelligent and having a nack for trading and a good memory is is what will help one become a good trader, not being literate. Go around the world to countries who have a high number of illiterate individuals and I'm sure you will fidn some intelligent folks who can trade or do other things despite being illiterate. As for recieving the Quran. Once he recieved it and recieved the commands to 'read' and to seek knowledge I am sure he learned how to read. All I am saying is that before he recieved the Quran he WAS indeed illiterate and had not studied under anyone to learn poetry or scripture. He may however still have had a grasp of basic numbers and may have through his interactions, necessity and through his own thinking have been very proficient at arithemtic principles. Even illiterate people are capable of this. Just because you cannot read does not mean that you cannot speak, memorize, count or solve problems.
Godbless,
Anwar -
As for the two seemingly different appearances of '3an'. One has a written sukoon over it, one does not. If 3an is followed by an alif that can be elides as in 'al' it will take a kasrah. 3rd person female past tenses do this too. As well, often tiimes no sukoon is written, and the way it is pronounces is presumed to be understood.
Consultation of Grand Qur'aan reveals that a vowel-Kasra is added at all such places where it occurs with the following word on its boundary which initiates with a vowel-less consonant. And in this way the cluster of two vowel-less consonants is broken.
In Grand Qur'aan it has always have a Jezm when it is followed by a vowelled Hamza, to ensure audibility of delicate hamza for the listener.
No jezm is placed when it is partially assimilated with the following Noon and Meem leaving a nasal sound of Noon, and a small Meem is added upon it when followed by a word starting with "Ba".
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Peace,
I skimmed through it just now Wakas. In response to that all I can say is that I never claimed that the prophet Muhammad (God bless him) stayed illiterate after the Quran and I don't think the Quran supports that. Once he recieved the revelation he learned to read and write. The prophet effetively stopped being ummy in all of its senses after having recieved the Quran. He was given a scripture and he learned to read. When he recieved his prophethood he was ummy however. First came the revelation, which he gave to the people piece-meal, as commanded. I beileve he was given it all at once, and was commanded to reveal it bit by bit. In the meantime I believe that he followed God's command and learned to read and write after he recieved the book.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I'll admit that I rejected that the prophet Muhammad was illiterate first because I thought it was an insult, and even a trick to make the Quran SEEM more miraculous. I found my justification in 255, as I understood this word to mean that someone personally writes something down. The word is iktataba and it has reflexive meaning. However, not reflexive enought to disclude a meaning that involves someone else. Anwar
Where did you find this sort of perception about Form-VIII verb? The meaning of partnership in such verbs is conveyed by having more than one subject. In the Ayat there is only one subject of this verb. And Form-VIII verbs indicate more effort on the part of the subject in reflexive act. And please read the following sentence of the Ayat which further confirms that he himself wrote.
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Peace,
I wish I could consult my grammar book to possibly provide some more evidences for this meaning. But alas I am without it. All I have is lisanul-arab online at the al-baheth site currently. And lisanul-arab doesn't go into all of the connoations of ifta3ala. There is another site called al-fasaha which I have yet to consult. As for the whole kasrah after the noon of 3an, Mazhar that sounds like you are also including qalqalah, which is common in Quranic recitation and I'm sure some recitations of poems. It is not necessary, but often employed. I'm referring to your explaination that dealt with consonant clusters. I was giving the specific reason for the kasrah being used with 3an. Being a preposition, it will be used where it encounters an elidable alif, as in any definite artricle or ibn as well as a few verbal forms, like istaf3ala or infa3ala. That is where you will find a kasrah on the noon of 3an. Mazhar, you gave a lot of jargon that the inquierer may not have been able to understand. You should try to use multiple terms. Like jazm and sukoon being the same, etc. I try not to use terms like jazm, idghaam, idh-haar or other jargon terms. It is best to explain these things in plain English and then offer the jargon for it. I admit i know alot of the rules and not all of the jargon, and that's because knowing the rule is more important (in my mind) than knowing the jargon.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Look again Mazhar. I just read it. Please don't be ridiculous. If you want me to post it just ask me to post it. But if you could not find it, just say you couldn't find it, don't take that 'You are wrong and I am borderline calling you a liar' tone.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace Anwar,
Ecept for traditional translations, and many others-modernists majority of whom in fact merely copies most of the traditional matter, all grammer books will suggest that connotative signification of reciprocity in Form-VIII verbs needs to be reflected, otherwise its basic meanings of reflexive nature remain intact with emphsis of great effort on the part of the subject of verb.
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And look at the depth of jealousy of the ruling elite that they even did not like to give him the full credit of having written/authored that which they alleged as "ancient tales" and they added "are dictated to him". The one whom something is dictated, he is called the writer.
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Peace,
Mazhar, so I am guessing you read it over and found the meaning of 'to have someone write.'I don't have my grammar book to check on all of the connoations, however there will always be some inconsistency in language. As for the ruling elite, their jealousy etc., I have nothing do with that. That is frankly just conjecture. Technically it only helped the image of the prophet if they fabricated the fact that he was illiterate at the time of revelation. So that plan back-fired. As for al-imlaa'. We typically associate dictating and writing together. However, someone can dictate so that you can memorize what they are saying as well. This does not go against the idea that he was illiterate at the time of revelation. I'm not saying he was illiterate during the whole time he recited the Quran to the people, but I also cannot put a timeline on when exactly he DID learn how to read.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I have read different posts in this thread and so far I have not seen any solid evidence for Prophet Muhammed being illiterate. We know very little about the personal life of Prophet Muhammed, and AQ only tells us the few things we need to know. By the way, which difference does it make whether he was illiterate or not? We should focus on the message, not on the man.
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Technically it only helped the image of the prophet if they fabricated the fact that he was illiterate at the time of revelation. So that plan back-fired.
They, the contemporary, did not fabricate that he is illiterate. On the other hand they point blank alleged that he has written the Qur'aan about which they said it was nothing but tales of ancients. Who could be more aware whether or not he was literate than the elite class of those days?
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David
We know very little about the personal life of Prophet Muhammed, and AQ only tells us the few things we need to know. By the way, which difference does it make whether he was illiterate or not? We should focus on the message, not on the man.
Agree with Blue part
for me that is not a very important question since Muhammad's illiteracy doesn't prove anything. The famous classical Greek poet Homer was blind and hence couldn't read or write either. But he composed one of the most famous pieces of literature.
and disagree with red part.
Wrong! Man is very important.
Raja on January 14, 2011
That is simply a misleading statement. How can a message earn a respect if it is to be delivered by a person who is drunk, steals, embezzles,lies,and lives a life for himself. The messenger is the most important part of the system that Allah has made to listen to his commands and implement it. -
They, the contemporary, did not fabricate that he is illiterate. On the other hand they point blank alleged that he has written the Qur'aan about which they said it was nothing but tales of ancients. Who could be more aware whether or not he was literate than the elite class of those days?
Did they say that he wrote it? Or did they say that he invented it and had it written down. That is the question. Taking all the passages about him not knowing writing and scripture and about scribes writing the book I think it is fair to accept the traditional understanding that he was illiterate when the book was revealed to him. Again, at what point he learned to read and if he actually wrote it down himself at any point I cannot answer. All i can say is that the Quran says that he did not know writing or scripture before it was revealed to him, and that scribes wrote it down. The verse that says he iktataba the Quran as we know can mean that he had someone write it down for him or that he wrote it down himself. That would make it a mutashaabihah verse whose meaning should be decided on based on other passages referring to the same topic. If we do that I think it is very fair to take the verse to mean that he had others write the book for him. At the very least at first.
Godbless,
Anwar -
All i can say is that the Quran says that he did not know writing or scripture before it was revealed to him, and that scribes wrote it down.
How can you attribute it to Grand Qur'aan. It nowhere says that he was illiterate. On the contrary it records the statement of people of his time that he himself has written down the Qur'aan. And still you have to consult the grammer books to find that only means "he has himself written those down".
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Mazhar,
I don't have to consult the grammar books to find that it only means that. I told you that I understood the typically reflexive idea of the form. However, Lisanul-Arab says that it can mean BOTH to write on one's own as well as to have one write. It would not be the first time that a word has a possibly irregular meaning. I want to consult the grammar books to see if room is made for this connotation with similar words of other roots. However, definitively there are TWO valid meanings that we can see now. So when the Quran says that the prophet did not know al-kitaab and did not write it with his hands before . . . you make the intelligent judgement.
Godbless,
Anwar
