The prophet Muhammad WAS Illiterate
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Peace,
Peace,
I'll admit that I rejected that the prophet Muhammad was illiterate first because I thought it was an insult, and even a trick to make the Quran SEEM more miraculous. I found my justification in 255, as I understood this word to mean that someone personally writes something down. The word is iktataba and it has reflexive meaning. However, not reflexive enought to disclude a meaning that involves someone else. Well, I just recently had a discussion with someone on whether or not the prophet Muhammad could have recieved oral teachings from christians or jews and then came up with something he thought as better. This has led me to a number of hadeeths, which I have not determed whether or not they are mutawaatir or mutawaatir al'ma'aany. Anyway, in short there is no evidence that he studied or recieved teachings under anyone, even the scarce Christians (apparently only 2 Arab Christians and a few Levantine slaves in Mecca who didn't speak good Arabic) and that he never visited for any length of time places where Jews and Christians were more numerous (although still small minorities), i.e. Yathrib, Yemen or Najran, nor was he visited by such people. Then there is the issue of the quality of literature he produced being neither a student of poetry (the only Arab literature at the time) or foreign literature. Anyway besides all that my conclusions that he was illiterate based on the use of the word iktataba has been official proven wrong. And i recant (I seem to be recanting on a lot of things lately when I revisit them). the prophet was illiterate. Here is why I believe this now
"It is said He iktataba someone else, which means he asked him to write something down for him." To write also means to speak out loud for someone else to learn by writing or memorizing, this is seen below as well. Istaktaba carries the same meaning. Iktataba is said to also mean 'kataba' as well as istamlaa, which means to dictate in order for something to be written down or memorized. In the third line it again states that iktataba can mean 'istaktaba.'
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.The meanings of Kitaab
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Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
Peace,
if you are based ont the word ummi, god explained what the word ummi means, when he said the ummiyeen who didn't receive the scripture
if you are based on the arabic language, i don't believe the hadith tellers for none of them was an arab, all of them persians and their mother tongue was persian and not arabic, they might have mearned arabic, but still, i see some college students for arabic language now who they don't speak as 10years old arabic boy the language, and this rule is also for any other language, if it's not your language, you will never speak it uness u live with the people since childhood
IKTATABA , sound like ISTANKAHA is sourah 33
If IKTATABA doesn't mean he wrote, than ISTANKAHA doesn't mean he married
KATABA , NAKAHA
IKTATABA , ISTANKAHASounds to me that he read and write and probably better than anyone in his time, he was chosen for his mind and heart, Allah chose the best people to deliver his message . best in everything , even writing, if it was our time, god would have chosen probzbly albert einshtein if he has faith and if prophethood was still open .
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peace Anwar,
If I have understood your post correctly, you are saying "iktataba" can mean something other than he wrote it down himself. I dont see how this proves or disproves anything, merely opens up the possibility that he may have been illiterate.
Is this what you mean?
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How about based upon this root and word understanding? Does it tell anything?
Here is the linguistic analysis of the word AlKitab.
is a verbal noun, a masdar and a plural fractus as well. Additonally, it is Marafa. Muaraf bil Lam. You could call it a proper noun for lake of better explanation in English. But it is really to narrow the scope of the noun to a know thing. It is at the measure of verbal noun (masdar) . This measure has several meanings. But in Quran, for this word it would be more appropriate to consider, used as plural fractus.
Root of this word is . Which means "he wrote, what he had heard or learned". Now if one were to put this meaning into measure of verbal noun (masdar). it would become "A collection, he wrote from what he heard or learned". Add meaning of particle "Al". Now it becomes "The collection he wrote from what he heard or learned".
Peace, Comments please.
Badar
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I will only comment on Wakas' post. I don't want to waste my time on people who already have their minds made up. Yes Wakas, it opens up the fact possibility that the last prophet was illiterate and unlearned. If we take the fact that he didn't know kitaab in any form, meaning any sort of studying, oral or writing then we must conclude that not only was he unlearned in religious scripture he was also unlearned in writing, and hence illiterate.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam progod,
what do you take Muhammad for an imbecile, like the religious Muslims have painted him, for what reason would you think Muhammad an imbecile who didn't have the basic intellect to learn the simple skill of reading and writing, you dismiss Badar's explanation of Arabic to remain invested within the complete ignorance of religion, so called Muslims are a stupid bunch, they test the patience of anyone with any sense.
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Peace,
'Abdun nur, i went into the fact that your logic was the one that I espoused previously which kept me from believing that the prophet Muhammad (god bless him) was illiterate. However, the facts would state otherwise. In addition to that not knowing how to read does not make you an imbecile. They did not have public schools back then, or even private schools. Many people did not know how to read or write. Many people still don't know because they don't have access to education and this can be considered a luxury in many places. However, that does not make one an imbecile, it just makes you illiterate. Illiterate and imbecile are not synonyms. He still knew the ways of his culture, how to speak, how to interact, how to think and all the basics (maybe even more) that allowed him to be successful in his tribal culture. He however did learn after the Quran was revaled to him. As with many cultures, education and literature are oral phenomena with limited knowledge in the community of writing. If you go to many places in the world where formal education is a luxury, poetry and the telling of history are oral traditions and knowing these things makes one educated, but not everyone is a master at these things. There is nothing wrong with that, and that does not make such people imbeciles. The Quran was the beginning of the last prophet's commitment to education and learning how to read and therefore be exposed to many different thoughts and ideas outside of his time and his tribe as well as spreading them. He was not even versed in Arab poetry which encapsulated Arab histories and experiences, but that didn't make him stupid. It made him a reserved person whose intellect bloomed, and was opened up and inspired by God's revelation to him. The ideas you espouse now are very narrow-minded, boxed in, modern and western in nature. They are not reflective or tolerant of realities.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Anyway, in short there is no evidence that he studied or recieved teachings under anyone, even the scarce Christians (apparently only 2 Arab Christians and a few Levantine slaves in Mecca who didn't speak good Arabic) and that he never visited for any length of time places where Jews and Christians were more numerous (although still small minorities), i.e. Yathrib, Yemen or Najran, nor was he visited by such people.
I can't imagine how you could come to such a conclusion when Sodom and Gomorra, the region of Prophet Lot, the people of Aad, the road to Damascus and other areas or people mentioned in the Qur'an are in the Palestine/Jordan region where Judaism and Christianity were prevalent, not to mention Jerusalem. Plus the Prophet's wives were of other faiths, most notably Khadijah. It doesn't mean that Prophet Muhammad was a copyist, only that his revelation was consistent with the revelation of other faiths. To place him in an isolated south Arabian bubble to argue that he was not influenced by his surroundings is simply unrealistic. Look on a map at the location of Yarmouk, Maan, Mutah and Kerak, for example.
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What is your source that Khadijah was Christian. It was her uncle who was a convert. Not herself. She was a pagan before believing in the message of the prophet Muhammad (Godbless him). I'm going to post the following taking in mind that these aspects of the seerah, may or may not be mutawaatir or mutawaatir al-ma'any. Anyone what is your source for Khadijah being Christian?
By Dr. Zakir Naik
- QUR?AN PLAGIARIZED FROM THE BIBLE
Question
Is it not true that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) has copied the Qur?an from the Bible?Answer
Many critics allege that Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) himself was not the author of the Qur?an but he learnt it and/or plagiarised (copied or adapted) it from other human sources or from previous scriptures or revelations.- MUHUMMAD LEARNT THE QUR?AN FROM A ROMAN BLACKSMITH WHO WAS A CHRISTIAN
Some Pagans accused the Prophet of learning the Qur?an from a Roman Blacksmith, who was a Christian staying at the outskirts of Makkah. The Prophet very often used to go and watch him do his work. A revelation of the Qur?an was sufficient to dismiss this charge - the Qur?an says in Surah An-Nahl chapter 16 verse 103
"We know indeed that they say, ?It is a man that teaches him,? The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear."
How could a person whose mother tongue was foreign and could hardly speak little but of poor broken Arabic be the source of the Qur?an which is pure, eloquent, fine Arabic? To believe that the blacksmith taught the Prophet the Qur?an is some what similar to believing that a Chinese immigrant to England, who did not know proper English, taught Shakespeare.
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MUHUMMAD (PBUH) LEARNT FROM WARAQA - THE RELATIVE OF KHADIJAH (RA)
Muhummad?s (pbuh) contacts with the Jewish and Christian Scholars were very limited. The most prominent Christian known to him was an old blind man called Waraqa ibn-Naufal who was a relative of the Prophet?s first wife Khadijah (r.a.). Although of Arab descent, he was a convert to Christianity and was very well versed with the New Testament. The Prophet only met him twice, first when Waraqa was worshipping at the Kaaba (before the Prophetic Mission) and he kissed the Prophet?s forehead affectionately; the second occasion was when the Prophet went to meet Waraqa after receiving the first revelation. Waraqa died three years later and the revelation continued for about 23 years. It is ridiculous to assume that Waraqa was the source of the contents of the Qur?an. -
PROPHET?S RELIGIOUS DISCUSSIONS WITH THE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS
It is true that the Prophet did have religious discussions with the Jews and Christians but they took place in Madinah more than 13 years after the revelation of the Qur?an had started. The allegation that these Jews and Christians were the source is perverse, since in these discussions Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was performing the roles of a teacher and of a preacher while inviting them to embrace Islam and pointing out that they had deviated from their true teachings of Monotheism. Several of these Jews and Christians later embraced Islam. -
THE PROPHET LEARNT THE QUR?AN FROM THOSE JEWS AND CHRISTIANS THAT HE MET OUTSIDE ARABIA
All historical records available show that Muhummad (pbuh) had made only three trips outside Makkah before his Prophethood
i. At the age of 9 he accompanied his mother to Madinah.
ii. Between the age of 9 and 12, he accompanied his uncle Abu-Talib on a business trip to Syria.
iii. At the age of 25 he led Khadija?s Caravan to Syria.
It is highly imaginary to assume that the Qur?an resulted from the occasional chats and meetings with the Christians or Jews from any of the above three trips. -
LOGICAL GROUNDS TO PROVE THAT THE PROPHET DID NOT LEARN THE QUR?AN FROM JEWS OR CHRISTIANS
i. The day-to-day life of the Prophet was an open book for all to see. In fact a revelation came asking people to give the Prophet (pbuh) privacy in his own home. If the Prophet had been meeting people who told him what to say as a revelation from God, this would not have been hidden for very long.
ii. The extremely prominent Quraish nobles who followed the Prophet and accepted Islam were wise and intelligent men who would have easily noticed anything suspicious about the way in which the Prophet brought the revelations to them - more so since the Prophetic mission lasted 23 years.
iii. The enemies of the Prophet kept a close watch on him in order to find proof for their claim that he was a liar - they could not point out even a single instance when the Prophet may have had a secret rendezvous with particular Jews and Christians.
iv. It is inconceivable that any human author of the Qur?an would have accepted a situation in which he received no credit whatsoever for originating the Qur?an.
Thus, historically and logically it cannot be established that there was a human source for the Qur?an. -
MUHUMMAD (PBUH) WAS AN ILLITERATE
The theory that Muhummad (pbuh) authored the Qur?an or copied from other sources can be disproved by the single historical fact that he was illiterate.
Allah testifies Himself in the Qur?an
In Surah Al-Ankabut chapter no.29 verse 48
"And thou was not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted."
Allah (swt) knew that many would doubt the authenticity of the Qur?an and would ascribe it to Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). Therefore Allah in His Divine Wisdom chose the last and final Messenger to be an ?Ummi?, i.e. unlettered, so that the talkers of vanity would not then have the slightest justification to doubt the Prophet. The accusation of his enemies that he had copied the Qur?an from other sources and rehashed it all in a beautiful language might have carried some weight, but even this flimsy pretence has been deprived to the unbeliever and the cynic.
Allah reconfirms in the Qur?an in Surah Al A?raf chapter 7 verse 157
"Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures) in the Law and the Gospel"
The prophecy of coming of the unlettered Prophet (pbuh) is also mentioned in the Bible in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12.
"And the book is delivered to him that is not learned."The Qur?an testifies in no less than four different places that the Prophet (pbuh) was illiterate. It is also mentioned in Surah A?raf chapter 7 verse 158 and in Surah Al-Jumu?a chapter 62 verse 2.
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ARABIC VERSION OF THE BIBLE WAS NOT PRESENT
The Arabic version of the Bible was not present at the time of Prophet Muhummad (pbuh). The earliest Arabic version of the Old Testament is that of R. Saadias Gaon of 900 C.E. - more than 250 years after the death of our beloved Prophet. The oldest Arabic version of the new Testament was published by Erpenius in 1616 C.E. - about a thousand years after the demise of our Prophet. -
SIMILARITIES IN THE QUR?AN AND THE BIBLE DUE TO COMMON SOURCE
Similarities between the Qur?an and the Bible does not necessarily mean that the former has been copied from the latter. In fact it gives evidence that both of them are based on a common third source; all divine revelations came from the same source - the one universal God. No matter what human changes were introduced into some of these Judeo-Christian and other older religious scriptures that had distorted their originality, there are some areas that have remained free from distortion and thus are common to many religions.
It is true that there are some similar parallels between the Qur?an and the Bible but this is not sufficient to accuse Muhummad (pbuh) of compiling or copying from the Bible. The same logic would then also be applicable to teachings of Christianity and Judaism and thus one could wrongly claim that Jesus (pbuh) was not a genuine Prophet (God forbid) and that he simply copied from the Old Testament.
The similarities between the two signify a common source that is one true God and the continuation of the basic message of monotheism and not that the later prophets have plagiarised from the previous prophets.
If someone copies during an examination he will surely not write in the answer sheet that he has copied from his neighbour or Mr. XYZ. Prophet Muhummad (pbuh) gave due respect and credit to all the previous prophets (pbut). The Qur?an also mentions the various revelations
given by Almighty God to different prophets.Godbless,
Anwar -
What is your source that Khadijah was Christian. It was her uncle who was a convert. Not herself. She was a pagan before believing in the message of the prophet Muhammad (Godbless him).
Peace Anwar,
From where you derived permission to make such an authoritative statement?
I say, on authority given by Allah, that she was a 100 percent true believer before the advent of Qur'aan. How would you refute this statement?
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Maybe i'm wrong, but that seems like the logical conclusion to me. That she was inclined to respect the gods of her tribe, even if she didn't physically worship them. Maybe she wasn't a pagan, maybe she was agnostic. I admit that was a bit authoritative. What I really meant to say is that she wasn't a Jew or a Christian adn would have been inclined to her tribes religion, as Muhammad before he was prophet. But again it is very possible that they didn't actively worship those gods and had doubts but believed in God which would make them agnostics or hunafaa' i.e. rightly/correctly inclined from a Quranic perspective.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Salaam Anwar,
Peace,
Peace,
I'll admit that I rejected that the prophet Muhammad was illiterate first because I thought it was an insult, and even a trick to make the Quran SEEM more miraculous.
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And i recant (I seem to be recanting on a lot of things lately when I revisit them). the prophet was illiterate. Here is why I believe this nowBrother, I would like to put forward some aayaats inshaAllah, it may be of help.
278
278 And among them are ummiyoon who do not know the Book except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
Ummiyoon = Who do not know Al-Kitaab
320
320 If they debate with you, then say I have submitted myself to Allah, as well as those who follow me. And say to those who have received the Book and AlUmmiyeen Have you submitted? If they have submitted then they are guided, and if they turn away, then you are only to deliver, and Allah is Seer over the servants.
2948
2948 And you were not reciting any Book before this, nor were you writing one down by your hand. In that case, the doubters would have had reason.
4252
4252 And thus, We inspired to you a revelation of Our command. You did not know what was the Book, nor what was faith. Yet, We made this a light to guide whoever We wish from among Our servants. Surely, you guide to a straight path.
To know what Al-Kitaab is, please follow http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601702.0
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Bro Khan,
I know what kitaab is from how the Classical Arabic language uses it not from your (or any one else's) personal or imaginative "quranic" interpretations that don't take into account how the language itself used these words as a whole. The prophet was illiterate and did not study under teachings or any teacher before the Quran. That is what is meant by he did not know kitaab. Umiy can be used in the sense of illiterate or in the sense of being ignorant of certain teachings and having never studied under anyone. Al-kitaab also definitively means Mosaic teachings, i.e. the Torah. Which for some includes all Judaic teachings, for some the old testament, for some the pentatauch and of course the true Torah which are the actual words of Moses in the Pentatauch and Talmud and the Targums.
Godbless,
AnwarGodbless,
Anwar -
Salaam Anwar,
I know what kitaab is from how the Classical Arabic language uses it not from your (or any one else's) personal or imaginative "quranic" interpretations that don't take into account how the language itself used these words as a whole. The prophet was illiterate and did not study under teachings or any teacher before the Quran. That is what is meant by he did not know kitaab. Umiy can be used in the sense of illiterate or in the sense of being ignorant of certain teachings and having never studied under anyone. Al-kitaab also definitively means Mosaic teachings, i.e. the Torah. Which for some includes all Judaic teachings, for some the old testament, for some the pentatauch and of course the true Torah which are the actual words of Moses in the Pentatauch and Talmud and the Targums.
Brother, no matter whether you agree with someone's view or not. But one thing I will tell you that ask Allah for the true guidance before you conclude anything or any meaning of any word from AlQuraan.
We are nowhere without the help and guidance from Allah.
May Allah guide us all towards the correct path. pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
Peace,
I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of 'min' 'wa' '3an' or 'fee' and I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of any other word it uses. I will consult sources for the Classical Arabic language for the meanings that any word any Classical Arabic speaker or book uses and then I will make conclusions about the messages of that book from reading that book through the meanings of the language it was written in. To do otherwise is to invent fanciful meanings under the guise of consulting the book.
Godbless,
Anwar -
The Quran expects its readers to already KNOW the meaning of the Arabic words it uses. As everybook expects its readers to already know the meanings of the words it uses. The only book that does not is a dicionary and even it expects the reader to know the language, it just simplifies or explains words using other words it already expects the reader to know. Do not expect to learn the meanings of Classical Arabic words from the Quran. It can be used as proof to confirm an already known meaning, but it cannot be used to define any of its words. The only time this can be used is if a book intentionally and blatantly re-defines a word or invents a new word and then blatantly defines it.
Godbless,
Anwar -
I will only comment on Wakas' post. I don't want to waste my time on people who already have their minds made up. Yes Wakas, it opens up the fact possibility that the last prophet was illiterate and unlearned. If we take the fact that he didn't know kitaab in any form, meaning any sort of studying, oral or writing then we must conclude that not only was he unlearned in religious scripture he was also unlearned in writing, and hence illiterate.
Godbless,
AnwarDear Anwar, your annoyance with me is justified to a certain degree. At the time we both knew what we were talking, but did not understand each other?s point of view. Additionally, I thought that the principles about language, I have discovered were likely enough to understand the book which understandably, you were not picking up either. In addition, I was trying to be lazy to learn Arabic Grammar in detail. But thanks to you, I did try to learn Grammar and it most certainly is, also needed. Not to just understand Quran, but most importantly to understand misunderstandings in Quranic translations. So thank you again, and best of wishes to you, in your quest.
Peace,
Badar
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Peace,
I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of 'min' 'wa' '3an' or 'fee' and I will not consult the Quran for the meanings of any other word it uses. I will consult sources for the Classical Arabic language for the meanings that any word any Classical Arabic speaker or book uses and then I will make conclusions about the messages of that book from reading that book through the meanings of the language it was written in. To do otherwise is to invent fanciful meanings under the guise of consulting the book.
Godbless,
AnwarPrace Anwar,
But what will be your "Base/Reference" book for arriving at 100% conviction?
And can you find for me in the sources for the Classical Arabic language an explanation as to why preposition is written in two different styles
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0001.%20Pronouns%20and%20Prepositions/Prepositions/Aen%20with%20Ain%20from/2.gif
http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/0001.%20Pronouns%20and%20Prepositions/Prepositions/Aen%20with%20Ain%20from/6.gifBut
