The prophet Muhammad WAS Illiterate
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So when the Quran says that the prophet did not know al-kitaab and did not write it with his hands before . . . you make the intelligent judgement.
The volume of work of traditionalists is so spacious that I have not yet found a writer/scholar who could escape its pressure and influence. Both points are in different contexts and nowhere it is suggested like that in Qur'aan which the quoted sentence is conveying. That is a traditional view without looking at the words of Qur'aan.
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And look at the depth of jealousy of the ruling elite that they even did not like to give him the full credit of having written/authored that which they alleged as "ancient tales" and they added "are dictated to him". The one whom something is dictated, he is called the writer.
And they say Fables of the men of old which he hath had written down so that they are dictated to him morn and evening.255
here are similar words, about another subject used by the same way, and it concern the doer of the action
and the Prophet desire to marry her 3350
Save him who stealeth the hearing, and them doth a clear flame pursue 1918
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Lobox,
Istankaha does not fit that form. However, the Quran is not a grammar book. It is a book that will be understood by the knowledgeable, who already understand Arabic grammar before they approach the Quran. The Quran will not teach you Arabic grammar, it can only affirm the knowledge once you have gained it from an extra-quranic source of Arabic grammar and language.
Godbless,
Anwar -
Lobox,
Istankaha does not fit that form. However, the Quran is not a grammar book. It is a book that will be understood by the knowledgeable, who already understand Arabic grammar before they approach the Quran. The Quran will not teach you Arabic grammar, it can only affirm the knowledge once you have gained it from an extra-quranic source of Arabic grammar and language.
Godbless,
AnwarBut the point is missed, it was Qur'aan that helped people to lay down the principles of grammer for public convenience. They approached Qur'aan to learn and compile principles of grammer, not pre Qur'aan poetry.
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Peace,
They approached the Quran, pre-islamic poetry and consulted Classical Arabic speakers among the bedouins. In the dictionaries you will find that the Quran is cited to confirm a meaning as well as poetries and other compilations. The Quran was not the only source for finding proofs for already established grammatical prinicples and definitions of words. Pre-Islamic peotries, post-islamic poetries and the Quran were used to confirm meanings and grammatical patterns, not create them.
Godbless,
Anwar -
..she was inclined to respect the gods of her tribe, even if she didn't physically worship them.
Marriage to an idolater is forbidden in The Quran. Mohammed would not have done an error like this. Only those who believe Mohammed to be some kind of lesser being, who suddently one day, burped out a holy text, thinks like this.
It doesn't work like this. Only beings of high nature, serves God in such a way, and with regards to scripture, only the highest.
My impression of Mohammed is this He is an intelligent man, probably knows how to read and write among many who do not. He studies religious texts on his own, and not just judaism and christianity. He gains gnosis, and through several years of correction of already known religion in his mind, through his experience of God, and logics, he writes the Quran, in an angelic state of mind. "Gabriel". I shall not say, that there aren't deep mystical aspects of this writing aswell.
And for the scriptural support of the argument of Mohammed being literate, "Recite, in the name of your Lord". Recitation of The Quran, was the key, to the success of the growth of the religion in Arabia. Nothing else was neccesary. This ofcourse also defeats the notion of, that one needs hadith, to explain the Quran. How could Mohammed recite the text, if he could not read?
Not only that, but this passage, 961-4, follows in verse 4, about "God teached by the pen". http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/96/4/
For me, this conjures up an image, of Mohammed, in his studychambers, "being told to recite", while writing down.
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You are entitled to your imaginations and to ignore the other passages in the Quran that state clearly that he was not literate at the time of revelation
and had not studied any other scriptures.
As for marrying a pagan. I never said she was pagan. I just said that there is no proof that she was christian or jewish. You don't have to be an idolater, even if you might sympathize or tolerate your people's idolatry. Guidance from God however leaves no doubt.Godbless,
Anwar -
Peace,
They approached the Quran, pre-islamic poetry and consulted Classical Arabic speakers among the bedouins. In the dictionaries you will find that the Quran is cited to confirm a meaning as well as poetries and other compilations. The Quran was not the only source for finding proofs for already established grammatical prinicples and definitions of words. Pre-Islamic peotries, post-islamic poetries and the Quran were used to confirm meanings and grammatical patterns, not create them.
Godbless,
AnwarDo you believe that poetry preislamic , ie really preIslamic ?
than how come there is no blasphemy in preIslamic poetry ? no one made a poem about the gods or anything
How di dwe get it ? we get it through the Hadiths also, that poetry is all after Islam
there is no poetry pre islamic at all, if there is than the hadiths are true, the zoroastriens who collected the hadiths, are the same who collected poetry, and they say some sounds like the quran, it is actually after the quran that poetry flourished
History is detaines by Satan, after the zoroastriens and others put the chains on it. -
Do you believe that poetry preislamic , ie really preIslamic ?
than how come there is no blasphemy in preIslamic poetry ? no one made a poem about the gods or anything
How di dwe get it ? .......What is your evidence of no pre-Islamic poetry if any? I think you are wrong here!
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Poetries were preserved like the Quran. The only difference is that poetries are not from God. The historicalness of pre-islamic poems and post-islamic poems that are mutawaatir are just as historical as the Quran. Hadeeth can be true, but we need to clarify which hadeeths are true and why. Mutawaatir hadeeths are historically true, unless they contradict the mutawaatir Quran because God's account is naturally taken as more accurate than any human account. Where there are no contradictions between the mutawaatir Quran and the mutawaatir hadeeth, the mutawaatir hadeeth are to be taken as historically true accounts. Mutawaatir al-ma3any is also to be taken as historically accurate although weaker than mutawaatir. Any Ahadi hadeeth that cannot qualify as mutawaatir al-ma3any cannot seriously be taken as historically accurate and must be considered unconfirmable rumor. However, as it pertains to our religion only the Quran is to be taken as it says it was the only revelation given to our last prophet (God bless him). By that token all qudsi hadeeth are unquranic and lies and any qudsi hadeeth considered to be mutawaatir cannot even be taken as historical as it existence clearly contradicts the Quran. Also we must take caution in considering mutawaatir hadeeth and take Quranic guidance as a template to confirm any accusatory rumors. I see the Quran use of 4 eye witness for accusations of lewdness against men or women or the acceptance of their spouses testimony as a good template for accepting the validity of a serious rumor. And I don't think it is any accident that the Quran's method of preservation passes this standard. As far as I know pre-islamic and many post-islamic poems also pass this standard because these poems were preserved by schools of narrators (ruwaatun) just as the Quran was preserved my schools of recitors (qurraa'un).
Godbless,
Anwar -
Let us adress the verses.
2948 "And thou was not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted."
http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/29/48/
Unfortauntely I do not know arabic. However, judging from the difference in translations, one can atleast say, that severe doubt can exist, to what this is about. Infact, one might just as easily argue, that this verse, leaves no doubt, that he Recited, becase the verse implies that he recited, after the book came. Second, knowing Quranic poetical text, when it talks about writing with his right hand, this is because he does this now, but has not done so before.
7157 "Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (Scriptures) in the Law and the Gospel"
http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/7/157/
.. mentions variations on the verse, without "unlettered" being mentioned. The word in question is ummi, which is see on the net, it's meaning is debated.Hadith..
You say, the meaning of the words of the Quran was known. However are they know today, after tens of thousands of hadith, has become credible to use, to know and interpret the meaning of the Quran? Isn't it so that we have other examples of words being twisted by hadith, that indeed, umma could mean something completely different, than what the majority believe today? Take for instance, the word, hijab.We repeat, in various contexts, so you may understand.
The Quran states that verses are repeated, and doubled up, in various contexts, so that it's meaning shall become clear. From what I remember, The Quran, references Mohammed, by various words.
Umma means people. Elsewhere he is referred to as "fellow-man". (532). Ummi seems to be a varitation on Umma. Fellow-man, part of a people. Known. Maybe Ummi is a variation on this. This is just me guessing though ofcourse. -
You are entitled to your imaginations and to ignore the other passages in the Quran that state clearly that he was not literate at the time of revelation
and had not studied any other scriptures.Peace Anwar,
Do you draw above from what Paradox has given the translation;
2948 "And thou was not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand in that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted."
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peace All,
For background information "The Quran and its Exegesis" Helmut Gatje
It should be noted that, although in later usage the term ummi for theological reasons came to mean "unlettered" or "illiterate" and was especially applied to Muhammad, in The Quran there is no evidence to suggest that this meaning was known during Muhammad's lifetime. The Quranic meaning of the term ummi seems to be "native", "belonging to the (Arab) community" or possibly "belonging to the common people". See Rudi Paret, Der Koran Kommentar and Konkordanz (Stuttgart, 1971), pp. 21-2.
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Salaam all,
peace All,
For background information "The Quran and its Exegesis" Helmut Gatje
It should be noted that, although in later usage the term ummi for theological reasons came to mean "unlettered" or "illiterate" and was especially applied to Muhammad, in The Quran there is no evidence to suggest that this meaning was known during Muhammad's lifetime. The Quranic meaning of the term ummi seems to be "native", "belonging to the (Arab) community" or possibly "belonging to the common people". See Rudi Paret, Der Koran Kommentar and Konkordanz (Stuttgart, 1971), pp. 21-2.
278
278 And among them are ummis who do not know the Book except by hearsay, and they only conjecture.
Ummi = Who do not know what AlKitaab is.
320
320 If they debate with you, then say I have submitted myself to Allah, as well as those who follow me. And say to those who have received the Book and the ummis Have you submitted? If they have submitted then they are guided, and if they turn away, then you are only to deliver, and Allah is Seer over the servants.
May Allah guide us all towards the truth pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
And there are such/quite many common people among them/Bani Iesraa'eel whose peculiar trait is that they do not know/have knowledge of the contents of the revealed Book except those wishful/hopeful fascinating hearsay/conjectural myths made popular and widespread in society
and as such they, the common people, keep doing/knowing nothing except conjecturing/supposing/assuming .
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601458.0
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Salam and Peace!
-----"And you (O Messenger) did not read of any book ""before it (Min Qablihi)"", nor did you write it with your right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood." (294
The meaning is so clear---"you could not read or write ""Min Qablihi"---means "you could not read or write before this (Quran)"
But what after this (Quran)?----Now you can read and write.Consider the words "Min Qablihi".---If the Prophet was illiterate before and after, it would have been "you don't know how to read or write".---And in that case the words "Min Qablihi" would have been useless.
But it says"you could not read or write "before this" ("Min Qablihi".You never ate burger before this time "Min Qablihi"-----means you never ate before this time,---but now you are eating a burger.
And if you have never eaten, and still you don't eat,-----then the sentence would have been,---"you have never eaten a burger."-----"And they (rejectors) say ?Legends of the ancient people, which he (the Messenger) has written down, so they are dictated to him morning and evening.? (255)
Why did they say this?---Because they knew that the Prophet knows how to write. If he didn't know, the rejectors would never have said---"which he (the Messenger) has written down,"
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Can you just imagine,-----a Messenger receiving Allah's Revelations, conveying and explaining it to people,-----
-----yet he was unable to read a single word of The Revelation that he himself received,-----
-----and then he died without knowing, recognizing and reading even a single word of The Revelation.How pity!---Take Allah's Refuge!
But, indeed, how shameful for the people who call their Prophet illiterate!!!
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So, sad!-----The Ummah (Salafis, Sunnis) today say that the Prophet was illiterate.
Allah Commanded the Prophet
---"Read" in the name of your Lord who has created." (961)
According to Sunnis, the Prophet himself did not obey Alalh's Commandment, and did not learn to "Read". (Naoozo Billah!)
---"The One who taught by the pen." (964)
According to Sunnis, the Prophet did not obey Allah's Commandment, and never picked up a pen to learn how to write. (Naoozo Billah!)
How shameful!-----How shameful!
