Platonic friendships article - really interesting
-
Interesting article. While I have trouble with the way Steve Harvey put his argument I do believe it is suspicious for a married woman to have male friends and a married man to have female friends. If you are not married then have all the friends you want. However, a man and woman who are looking for a mate will be concerned if the other has many friends of the opposite sex.
Not saying that you shouldn't have any friends of the opposite sex just be very careful when choosing those friends because most men do have other motives.
I do like the statement by Tony Parker.
-
Sorry, I am deleting my comment and re-writing.
When talking about friendships between men and women it often seems to come back to self-control etc. I'm wondering why Western men are relatively adept at this...yet I hear all the time from Muslims that men cannot manage this. Are they talking about Muslim men specifically? In which case, why are Muslim men so different? Or, are they speaking in general...in which case it wouldn't fit with what I've seen with my own eyes.
I personally wouldn't feel comfortable having a close friendship with a man other than my husband either. But I don't see anything wrong with other friendships so long as I am aware of what is going on and don't let it become a problem. Having said that, I don't have any male friends that I see, only a few that I occasionally exchange a few words with online. ) -
Interesting article. I personally have many more male friends than female ones, and I seem to get along with them with no strings attached. But really, my closest friend happens to be a dude, and we actually think that it will be super scary and "incestuous" if anything ever happens D. So yeah, I do believe such friendship can exist!
-
This guy is one of my favourite bloggers, and I've read this article some time ago. peace
If you are not married then have all the friends you want. However, a man and woman who are looking for a mate will be concerned if the other has many friends of the opposite sex.
So if you have friends of the opposite gender, should you dump them when you're looking for a mate or get married?
I've always had close male friends, some of which have been in my life for more than a couple of decades, and I can't for the life of me imagine cancelling our friendship just because I have a partner.
Personally, I wouldn't be concerned at all if a man I'm romantically interested in has female friends. In fact, I consider this a positive sign.
-
So if you have friends of the opposite gender, should you dump them when you're looking for a mate or get married?
I've always had close male friends, some of which have been in my life for more than a couple of decades, and I can't for the life of me imagine cancelling our friendship just because I have a partner.
Personally, I wouldn't be concerned at all if a man I'm romantically interested in has female friends. In fact, I consider this a positive sign.
Peace,
Yes, don't be naive; your male friends being male will "tag you" to say it politely in a second -- that is human nature.
-
Of course one can have friends of the opposite sex.
And as to make advances, that is idiotic. If a man wants to make advances he would not wait for years to make. Usually they do not wait even for an hour. What kind of obssessed wretches do people think all men are. There is nothing dubious in having friends of the opposite sex. It is dubious if you conceal it from your spouse or hide them or run away from your spouse when you are with them. So as to advances, if they haven't made them in a short time, they will not make them. All men are not self-controless pigs. Some are very loyal friends with women who stand alone and come in very handy in situations when a man is a help, like for instance to deal with violent males in a woman life. Not that they are more of a help than women in those cases, but can be a help. Good friends do not hide what is clean and decent from their wives, such as an honest friendship. I would not have a friend who would hide my friendship from his wife, if he has one, and usually the wives become also friends or at least sincerely friendly.
Most of my friends are women, but the male friends I have are just as friends, are not obssessed with sex and are loyal, and I am not going to drop them so that I can confirm any idiotic assumed statistic. Life is not all about sex. There are many other things people can enjoy without getting into anything unbecoming or dubious, in fact most things are so, alhamdulillah.
Salaam
-
Salaam Leyna,
I do think when you get married there are certain you give up certain thing and you gain certain things. I think that it's best for married couples to hang out with other married couples or if you have people who are friends of the family t hang out with those. I wouldn't suggest for married peolpe to hang with a lot of single people and these things apply to men and women.
If your friends are mature adults they would understand you creating distance. Over time i think it would just come naturally with a shift in priorities.
-
Please don't patronize me, I'm not naive.
As I said, I've had male friends for many years, no bad experiences so far. Most of my close male friends are happily married, btw.
Of course one can have friends of the opposite sex.
Hate to break to you girls that your living in la la land and besides those males mentioned in 2431 ...
When Harry Met Sally(Men&WomenCanNotBeFriends)-Part I
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFWGOKuFyjk
-
I do think when you get married there are certain you give up certain thing and you gain certain things.
No offense, Duke, but you seem to have a very strange and superficial concept of friendship.
Friends (not acquaintances!) are people who are important to me, people I can share my thoughts and concerns with, whom I can trust, who are there for me when I'm down, who challenge me intellectually, complement me emotionally and so on. And vice versa. What sort of person would dump a real friend as soon as they get married / enter a serious relationship? If you do this, then the friendship surely wasn't a real friendship at all.
I'm not exactly 20 anymore, some of my friends have been around and there for me for a long time. Dumping them if I got a partner would be a very senseless thing to do, and it wouldn't reflect too positively on my character.
I think that it's best for married couples to hang out with other married couples or if you have people who are friends of the family t hang out with those. I wouldn't suggest for married peolpe to hang with a lot of single people and these things apply to men and women.
I completely disagree with married couples hanging out only with married couples. I always found it sad when people stop being individuals when they get married and don't keep their separate friends and interests. And what if the relationship / marriage ends? Let's be realistic, breakups happen all the time, but friends are usually there to stay.
As I mentioned above, most of my male friends are happily married. My oldest friend, whom I've been knowing since we both were about 15, is married for the second time. Despite the fact that him and his first wife are not really in contact anymore (except for organizational stuff regarding the kids etc.), her and me have become very close friends over the years. His second wife knows and accepts me, but we are too different in terms of character and interests, so don't really have much to say to each other, and usually him and me meet on our own.
Another close friend has been in my life for more than 15 years, he got married a few years ago, and his wife and me are good friends as well. The three of us often meet together, but I meet him on my own as well.
My closest Egyptian friend is quite a bit older than me and has three grown children. I love his wife and we get along great. While him and me do meet on our own, I usually go over to their house, and I'm being treated like a family member.
I'm describing those things because I want to make clear why and how it works for me to have male friends. My life would be much poorer if I restricted myself to having only female friends, or only single friends etc. Likewise, it would be poorer (and much lonelier) if my friends distanced themselves from me because I am single and they are married.
If someone doesn't want or miss having friends of the opposite gender ? fine. But please don't stereotype or try to create rules based on you own experience, desires, and opinions.
If your friends are mature adults they would understand you creating distance. Over time i think it would just come naturally with a shift in priorities.
I consider myself a mature adult, but I would be very hurt if a good friend started creating distance because he got into a relationship / married. And I'm not talking about being preoccupied with a new partner, or being busy with starting a family etc. ? that's a normal part of life, and it's natural that you might have less time for your friends for a few months or even years. But there's a huge difference between being busy / preoccupied and distancing yourself from friends because you feel you don't need any now that you have a partner. Or because you feel your single friends are not suitable anymore, now that you are being married.
nope -
Salaam everyone!
I'd like to thank Rana for sharing my post on this thread. I saw the link via my blog stats, so I decided to register on free-minds to reply to some of the comments.
As I mentioned in my post, I find it extremely problematic when it is argued that men cannot control themselves in the presence of women. It relies on the popular stereotype about men being innately "sex-crazed," while implying that women are "delusional," "ignorant," and "naive" for believing that they actually have male friends. These stereotypes are only reinforced when we make generalizations like, "The only reason why you have guy friends is because they all want to sleep with you." Most of my friends are women and I know it is very possible to have friendships with the opposite without thinking of them in a romantic and/or sexual context.
Of course when people are married, the time spent with their opposite sex friends may be reduced significantly, but it doesn't mean one should kick their friends out of their lives. If, for instance, a Muslim man is getting married to a Muslim woman who has had a male friend since high school, what should the Muslim husband do? Force his wife to delete the male friend out of her life? That's not maturity. If trust and faithfulness is established, and two people truly and deeply Love each other, then they wouldn't feel so threatened by their partner having friends of the opposite sex. Everyone chooses to live their life however they wish. Personally, I am someone who would share everything with my partner, insha'Allah, and I will want to honor and respect her feelings. I believe a fully committed and devoted Love can still exist without having to remove friends from our lives.
This is why interaction and communication between the sexes is so important. Arguing that men only think of women as sex objects is not only sexist, but it also dismisses the responsibilities we have as Muslims. What's the point of teaching modesty, respect, and self-discipline in Islam if we're biologically programmed to be "singly sex-minded"? I speak as a heterosexual man who has never had any sexual relations, despite most of my friends being female. This personal choice has a lot to do with my faith, my devotion to God, and my ideas about Love. Even the Qur'an says that Allah will not place a burden upon us that is too hard for us to bear. The Qur'an says the Shaytaan can only call upon you and that he has no control over you. Islam teaches that we are all responsible for our actions and deeds. Instead of lazily placing the blame on "nature," let's turn inward and understand how we can control ourselves, and that we are much more than what socialized gender stereotypes teach about us.
I think it's unfortunate that some of the comments here are being shot down with insults. I don't know what's respectful about telling someone their being "naive" or "living in la la land" just because they have a different view than yours. An easy way to discredit and devalue someone's opinion is by insulting them, and it reveals your unwillingness to listen to them. If we are more respectful and have an open, mature discussion, then perhaps we can move forward and recognize our responsibilities.
-
Leyna,
I'm not creating rules I'm giving my opinion. I'm not trying to tell you how to live your own life. By the way are friends really always there forever? Friendships end all the time also.
Do you have all the same friends you had as a child? Do you feel you lost yourself because you don't? Priorities change interests change and friends change at times.
I still have my identity and my own interests and a couple of my old friends but my wife and children are more important than any friendship.
Having friends with more common interests is not losing yourself. Yo
-
I was writing a comment when the computer died and lost the post.
I agree with Duke. I have had male friends over the years but our friendship came to an end when they got married or in a serious relationship. Relationships are hard and each spouse needs to work on minimizing complications and stress. There is absolutely no way I would want to be topic of discussion or argument between a couple, interfering in their lives.
Nature of the relationship has to change when you get married. This is my opinion.
-
I guess people here have spoken from their own worldview or their own experiences, which may also be influenced by the worldview or attitude. It is childigsh to come and negate another person or persons life and experience because it doesn't fit into one's woldview. With that kind of atitutde, it is obvious that frindships, any friendship, may be strained. If one is a decent person it is very unlikely that one is going to have FRIENDS who are no decent people as well. Those who last re decent and are friends. A decent person knows how to respect nd protect his or her friends and thieir family relationships. A friend cannot be a rival, but somebody whi will help.
It is a matter of trust, of trusting your spouse and trusting your friends. Tht is what marriage and frienship is about. If some does not deserve that trust one discovers is soon enough and then frienship is over.
To discard a friend when one gets married seems to me uncalled for and cruel. Of course everybody will have to adapt to new circumstances, but that happens always. If one moves to another country, also one adapts. One will not see that friend every day, may be talk on the phone. But that does not mean you discard him or her. In fact I find that horrible, cruel. Not having single friends I find also that it causes a lot of pain. Iam thinking of the situation of divorced persons, who might had a good social life, and plenty of friends, and suddenly are dropped like a hot potato, because they "no loonger fit". That is outright cruel. Not only is tht a time when a person most needs friends, but suddenly finds him or herself in a desert shunned and like a leper. Being of different sex is no excuse for betrayal. Although for the divorced person it is an excelent opportunity to find out who are really his or her friends. The phenomenon of segregationism by married couples is well known and it is not precisely the object of praise.
I know in mos traditional countries families are big and close knitted and most people can relie on familiy to help them out in difficult circumstances. In mor "modern" societies that role is taken up by friendships. Just as relatives are of both sexes, it is better if there is no bar to friendship because of sex.
At any rate, each one does as sees best, however friendship is a another form of love and companionship and it will be as dirty or as pure as the people who experience it. Just like marriage.
Salaam
-
I'm not creating rules I'm giving my opinion. I'm not trying to tell you how to live your own life.
Not directly. But you were using expressions such as "I think that it's best ?" and "I wouldn't suggest ?", thus implying that you are not only talking about your personal experience but suggesting how it should be for others.
By the way are friends really always there forever? Friendships end all the time also.
Do you have all the same friends you had as a child? Do you feel you lost yourself because you don't? Priorities change interests change and friends change at times.
Yes, friendships end when people grow apart etc. But that's not the same as breaking off a friendship all of a sudden because you or the other person are getting into a relationship.
Having friends with more common interests is not losing yourself.
Having the same marital status does not automatically mean you have common interests. And when your marital status changes your interests do not automatically change. That's what I tried to explain earlier ? if someone is my friend, he is my friend for a reason, i.e. similar mindset, common interests etc. These things do not change with marital status.
Iam thinking of the situation of divorced persons, who might had a good social life, and plenty of friends, and suddenly are dropped like a hot potato, because they "no loonger fit". That is outright cruel. Not only is tht a time when a person most needs friends, but suddenly finds him or herself in a desert shunned and like a leper. Being of different sex is no excuse for betrayal. Although for the divorced person it is an excelent opportunity to find out who are really his or her friends. The phenomenon of segregationism by married couples is well known and it is not precisely the object of praise.
Well said!
-
Hi
It's insecure people who are unable to or are shunned from having friends of the opposite sex. I get along with guys better as women tend to bring in a lot of drama. Really if you can't trust your partner in a relationship or marriage you don't have much of a relationship do you?<<<Kelly
-
Leyna,
when someone makes a suggestion that's all it is. It doesn't become a rule. You seem to become very defensive at that statement. I can suggest things to you all day it doesn't mean you have to do what I say. Sister you can do whatever you choose.IN MY OPINION, the only way you can have friends of the opposite sex while married is if they are friends of your spouse also.
I dumped most of my friends male and female when I got married. It was a transitioning phase in my life. I kept those friends who could help me grow as a person and I could do likewise. I kept those friends who were truly loyal and could respect my marriage. The thing is that I would have dumped the other friends eventually anyway and many of them were females most were males. Females, however tend to be a bit competitive with each other.
Maybe it's easier for females to have male friends than males to have female friends. Females don't even have many female friends. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Can I ask you a question though? Where do you live? I live in the states.
-
when someone makes a suggestion that's all it is. It doesn't become a rule. You seem to become very defensive at that statement.
OK. peace
Yes, I am feeling a bit defensive, and I was just wondering why. Maybe it didn't necessarily have to do with your statements but with the general tone in this thread, the personal attacks, ridiculing and patronizing done by some people. As others have pointed out, this is a subject where everyone has different opinions and experiences; and we should exchange and discuss them rather than claiming our own ones are valid and others are not.I dumped most of my friends male and female when I got married. It was a transitioning phase in my life. I kept those friends who could help me grow as a person and I could do likewise. I kept those friends who were truly loyal and could respect my marriage. The thing is that I would have dumped the other friends eventually anyway and many of them were females most were males.
So you are basically saying that you dumped them because you had "outgrown" them, because you've moved apart, not necessarily because you felt they didn't fit into your life anymore on the sole basis of you being married and them being single? That's a bit different from how you worded it earlier on.
Females, however tend to be a bit competitive with each other.
I know many people say this, but I've personally never experienced it.
Can I ask you a question though? Where do you live? I live in the states.
German living in Egypt.
I've lived in the States too, and found that people there are way more conservative as far as male-female relationships are concerned than Germans. Maybe that's one of the reasons our outlook and experience on this issue is so different ?
-
Interesting article. While I have trouble with the way Steve Harvey put his argument I do believe it is suspicious for a married woman to have male friends and a married man to have female friends. If you are not married then have all the friends you want. However, a man and woman who are looking for a mate will be concerned if the other has many friends of the opposite sex.
Not saying that you shouldn't have any friends of the opposite sex just be very careful when choosing those friends because most men do have other motives.
I do like the statement by Tony Parker.
On the contrary, dear Duke. I am pushing my wife to have more male friends. I married her because I love her and I trust her completely, and she feels the same towards me. Just because we got married are we to end friendships with people just because they are of the opposite sex? And also this "other motives" argument, I think my wife can handle some desperate attempt to get jiggy with her...Duke, isn't it a little condensending towards the woman to say she cannot protect herself? Also I think it is a little condensending towards the man to say that we would use friendship as a disguise to be able to hit the sack with a married woman....
A man needs sometimes to have a objective point of view, especially when they are trying to understand their wife. Female friends are great to have. I have female friends who have crushes on me, I know because a little bird whispered in my ear. Does that make me want to jump them? Does that mean I will end our friendship? No, I am a married man and my wife is the only woman who will enjoy my sexy body rotfl