Funny description of us - the hadith rejectors! :)
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Dear Mazhar and Raaajah,
So which one you think is the proper name of the creator?
1- Allah
2- Ar-rahamaan
3- Al-haqq (please note that there is no plural for this word in the quran)
Or does he have 3 proper (personal) names?
At which place of 287 occurrences of the word from Root "Haqq" you have found it as Proper Name of Allah?
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Mazhar,
I cannot find now the verse about "allahou al-haqqou...", maybe you or someone else can remember and point out the verse, that could be helpful. I am sure there is one.
On the other hand, for my previous questions, you can replace choice number 3- with anyone of these
5923
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Pure logic brother Aymen! makes perfect sense.
Thank youPeace
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Peace Raaajah,
aymen
As you take your time to answer what Mazhar Sahib has brought up, I may comment on your remaining postWhy waste my time on answering a derranged person? This would be like wasting time discussing politics with Gaddafi. You can see his typical derranged Sunni obsession with genitalia here in his conclusion on 741
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602203.0
We know that the majority of men even today are not aware of this fact that they have stiff erection about four times during the sleep each having a duration of 15 minutes, but quite many know that in the early hour of the morning their organ gets erected without their consent/desire. How many of us taken care that it could be noticed by others around us who are not asleep? Private part is private; its dimensions should not come into the sight/vision of others. Carefulness and chastity demand that we must sleep under the cover of unstitched cloth/sheet [}} to secure sanctity and dignity of our private part.
Actually this example of yours proves otherwise; for me after reading what Mazhar Sahib has posted.
But you didn't address the example. In fact, you don't seem to want to address anything I said. You made a big deal about al in allah being not the definite article. When I proved that it was the definite article since with the addition of li it becomes lillah, you simply remained silent after your argument was 100% defeated. Are you too proud to correct? What is the use of this discussion? If you were in my place what would you do if I made a big deal about an argument and I suddenly shut up when it was defeated and didn't go back and admit my mistake and correct it?
Quran says ?ilahinnas? meaning God of mankind, which negates the existence of another deity for mankind to be worshiped.
if we take it as "the god" it means "the god for man kind" and creates the possibility for "the god for jinns" the god for animals" "the god for heavens" the god for earth" so on and so forth but as I mentioned before Quran says repeatedly
Laa ilaaha illaa alllah ?There is no God except Alllah?
No one can make a dual and plural out of it since it is a Proper Name. And a proper name is always attributable to only and only one. MazharThis is all false.
On the first point, the word "ilah" means "god" and not "the god". So the entire argument is based on a misunderstanding.
On the second point, I don't know how can an educated person propose nonsense such that a proper name cannot be plural. Have you ever heard of the proper name Pakistanis ? Does it apply to one and only one?? How do you expect me to take you seriously when you are copying and pasting such nonsense? Think. It is all very simple but you are making it too complicated for yourself and getting lost in the process.
Peace,
Ayman
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Pure logic brother Aymen! makes perfect sense.
Thank you
PeacePeace brother and thank you for your understanding. The great reading is pure logic and makes perfect sense when we let go of the cloud of sectarian nonsense and preconceptions.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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aymen
On the second point, I don't know how can an educated person propose nonsense such that a proper name cannot be plural. Have you ever heard of the proper name Pakistanis ? Does it apply to one and only one?
We are talking about the Arabic word "http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.%20Tabweeb/00002.%20Allah/3.gif here and it absolutely applies to one and only!
On the first point, the word "ilah" means "god" and not "the god". So the entire argument is based on a misunderstanding.
even if we substitute "the god" with "god" the results would be the same as I mentioned above. However if we use "Allah" meaning the only and one "God" the picture becomes very clear.
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On the first point, the word "ilah" means "god" and not "the god". So the entire argument is based on a misunderstanding.
On the second point, I don't know how can an educated person propose nonsense such that a proper name cannot be plural. Have you ever heard of the proper name Pakistanis ? Does it apply to one and only one?? How do you expect me to take you seriously when you are copying and pasting such nonsense? Think. It is all very simple but you are making it too complicated for yourself and getting lost in the process.
Stupidity prevails when one makes up his mind of having superior knowledge. Those who know basic Arabic can understand the stupidity in calling as "plural" Proper Name, by a linguist in making.
A proper name can never be pluralized while retaining it as a Proper Name. Pseudo intellectuals never remember the basic principles of anything, and keep talking their nonsense.
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aymen
How do you expect me to take you seriously when you are copying and pasting such nonsense? Think.
No one can make a dual and plural out of it since it is a Proper Name. And a proper name is always attributable to only and only one. Mazhar
now if you think that Mazhar is talking Non Sense and I am copying it then you must have already refuted the following or you think that this is non sense too.
A proper name is in its nature descriptive of only one object and therefore essentially singular. as soon as it becomes susceptible of plurality, as when we speak of twelve Caesars, or seven Jams es it ceases to be a proper noun.
Spain is the proper name of the country and Spaniard has been by some grammarians called the proper name of people; but later is a generic word characterizing any one of great number of persons by their connection with SpainThe Academician
edited by Albert Picket, John W. Picket -
Dear Mazhar and Raaajah,
So which one you think is the proper name of the creator?
1- Allah
2- Ar-rahamaan
3- (please note that there is no plural for this word in the quran)
4- (please note that there is no plural for this word in the quran)
Or does he have 4 proper (personal) names?
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Peace Raaajah,
now if you think that Mazhar is talking Non Sense and I am copying it then you must have already refuted the following or you think that this is non sense too.
A proper name is in its nature descriptive of only one object and therefore essentially singular. as soon as it becomes susceptible of plurality, as when we speak of twelve Caesars, or seven Jams es it ceases to be a proper noun.
Spain is the proper name of the country and Spaniard has been by some grammarians called the proper name of people; but later is a generic word characterizing any one of great number of persons by their connection with Spain
The Academician
edited by Albert Picket, John W. PicketOf course this John Picket is saying nonsense too. All proper names can take plural. For example, when I say that I have three Mazhars in my classroom, do those people cease to have this proper name and are suddenly real "mazhars" common nouns, which in Arabic mean "appearences"?! People routinely use dual and plural proper names. Haven't you heard about the two Koreas? Again, proper names can be anything singular, dual or plural. Haven't you heard about Bahrain (dual) and Aljaza'ir (plural)?!
Again, proper names can be anything singular, dual, plural. Anyone can give anything any proper name. There is nothing preventing anyone from making some stone idols and naming them Allah and then say to people look at those Allahs or he can name them Allahat in Arabic plural. There are many people who are labeled Muslims by virtue of what is noted on their ID card or birth certificate. This doesn't mean that they are peacemakers. The difference is that proper names are just meaningless labels that don't describe truth and this is why they are not translated. So an idol given by some idolater the proper name Allah is not really the god/allah/al-ilah. The common noun describes truth and is not just a label that anyone can slap on anything.
Peace,
Ayman
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Of course this John Picket is saying nonsense too. All proper names can take plural. For example, when I say that I have three Mazhars in my classroom, do those people cease to have this proper name and are suddenly real "mazhars" common nouns, which in Arabic mean "appearences"?! People routinely use dual and plural proper names. Haven't you heard about the two Koreas? Again, proper names can be anything singular, dual or plural. Haven't you heard about Bahrain (dual) and Aljaza'ir (plural)?!
Stupidity confounded. Also exposed that Aymen is not yet aware of what are the various types of nouns in Arabic and other languages. Mention of "three Mazhars" by a teacher in a class room will instantly expose that his degree in language is fake.
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Someone,
Dear open up any book about language, and first study therein the basic perception denoted to a Proper name, adjective and participles. The point will become clear.
Thanks for the advice, but if it were that simple we wouldn't have all this mixing.
Now would you please take some of your precious time and give your answer with some explanation, so that I can follow your line of reasoning, if there is any.
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aymen
Of course this John Picket is saying nonsense too.
Haven't you heard about the two Koreas? Again, proper names can be anything singular, dual or plural. Haven't you heard about Bahrain (dual) and Aljaza'ir (plural)?!
Seriously? I didn't expected this from a person of your caliber.
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Thanks for the advice, but if it were that simple we wouldn't have all this mixing.
Now would you please take some of your precious time and give your answer with some explanation, so that I can follow your line of reasoning, if there is any.
Dear I gave you the most simple tool to understand. I didnt' ask you to go through various theories about Proper Name. I will give you explanation and you will bring another attributive name, as people call 99 names.
There is another thread about Proper Name of Allah.
Ar'Reh'maan Personal Name of Allah
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602143.0 -
Dear I gave you the most simple tool to understand. I didnt' ask you to go through various theories about Proper Name. I will give you explanation and you will bring another attributive name, as people call 99 names.
There is another thread about Proper Name of Allah.
Ar'Reh'maan Personal Name of Allah
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9602143.0Yaa Mazhar,
I gave a second look to your above mentionned post about "Ar'Reh'maan Personal Name of Allah", but I have to say that you seem to have a lot of time to spend on writing such highly educated nonsense, and I still don't know for what reason or hidden agenda.
You give no solid reason as to why you have singled out "arrahmaan" to be the personal name of the creator of everything, meaning that even a chinese guy would have to call his (our)creator by this specific name, if not.... what happens?? this is another question for you that will certainely remain without answer.
Take these 2 attributes VS
Now would you care, or should I say, would you dare to give in a short list your reasons on taking one of them as a personal name of our creator and not the other?
I don't know who you are trying to deceive by your linguistic acrobatics? well besides Rajaaah, who seems to be one of your most unconditionnal and blind-following cheerleader, to the point where he is parroting your most incredible and nonsensible sayings without the least doubt, and better defending them... hail So congratulation for your first follower.
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Someone,
Your simple problem is that you wish to perceive the ultimate nicities of a subject and concept without trying to see the basic abc of that subject. You have not yet given a thought to differentiate between personal name and specific descriptive/adjectival name.
Note the difference
The name is the code, which gives the basic cognition of existence and presence of a thing and person. Hence, name is the introduction for apparent/initial recognition of a thing and person. Cognition of the code/name of a thing or person is the elementary/first step in gaining knowledge about the thing or person. Name of a thing or person gives it or him a vivid distinction from all other things and persons and makes it or him distinguished/identified/definite/isolated and grants ability to others to identify and describe/ remember/recall and/or mention-refer it or him to others. The name/code serves as a basis/foundation for others to enquire and study about it to gain further knowledge.
Attributive names/adjectival descriptions give further information, insight and knowledge about the thing or person introduced by a Personal Name. These are complimentary in nature and help to acquaint others about the inner-self of the named object or person/being. Every person and thing/object that exists has two aspects, the one evidently apparent notwithstanding whether or not it is in the range of focus of someone, and the other is the inner-self, hidden, infolded, not apparent but invisibly embedded therein .
The evidently apparent is the reflection of the fact of existence, and its cognition and reference is by the Name. The pursuit-journey of knowledge is from cognition of existence/Name towards knowing and perceiving the inner-self of that which exists and its relationships and equations with all that exists. We cannot have the absolute knowledge of anything and person/being unless we know its/his inner-self , after its cognition, i.e. introductory knowledge of its Name."Agenda" is to make the following point understood
Once we know the inner-self, all that is secreted, hidden and its relationships with everything else, we know that thing and Person in near absolute sense. Thereupon, it or He becomes more visible and apparent than the shining sun in a bright and clear day, even without being physically in visual sight, the aspect of Him. Therefore, we know Him/him with such conviction, which is the absolute-exalted end of the knowledge. This type of knowledge, with reference to personalities, can be attained only about two, Ar'Reh'maan, the Exalted and Muhammad Sal'lallaa'hoalaih'wa'salam-The Mercy Personified, since the of both is quite extensively visible to us all around and through the courtesy of Grand Qur'aan.
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Someone
I don't know who you are trying to deceive by your linguistic acrobatics? well besides Rajaaah, who seems to be one of your most unconditionnal and blind-following cheerleader, to the point where he is parroting your most incredible and nonsensible sayings without the least doubt, and better defending them... hail So congratulation for your first follower.
I can smell some thing burning. elektro
That is the only comment for your rant, I can give at the moment; as I am busy watching Pakistan Vs Sri Lanka spectacular.