Is Jerusalem the Qibla?
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Two nights ago I started reading the book " The Natural Republic ". I read in one the chapters that the Qibla is not Mecca but Jerusalem. At first I was a bit skeptical however after reading a few additional articles I'm starting to think that indeed Jerusalem has to be the Qibla. I was a Christian. And i read the Bible. So far to my knowledge none of the prophets, Jews or Christians could have gone to Mecca for pilgrimage. The Bible places ALOT of emphasis on Jerusalem as the place of pilgrimage. Also the Quran did say in Sura 396 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
I always thought that the word Bakka was an old word for the city of Mecca however to my astonishment there is a place called Bakka in Jerusalem! Another issue that bothered me was why was Prophet Mohammad so preoccupied with fighting the Byzantium army unless it was of great importance??? And if the Kaaba in Mecca was the original Qibla why is it according to Islamic History that Muhammad prayed in the direction of Jerusalem during the period the Quran was being revealed. The writers of this book make very strong arguments to support the theory that Jerusalem (where the dome of the rock is situated ) is the focal point. I'm beginning to think so to. Does anyone have any comments on this particular topic? -
The foolish from amongst the people will say "What has turned them away from the qiblah that they were on?" Say "To God is the east and the west, He guides whomsoever He wishes to a straight path."
Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west...
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I tend to think that Jerusalem is the qibla for the reasons mentioned. Other things that make me believe this
Abraham's Station is supposed to be within the qibla, but the purported Abraham's Station in Mecca is outside the Kaabah and is only a set of encased footprints.
Some important guy back in the day (helpful, I know, but it's late; I'll try to pull some articles and fix this) was unsure whether the qibla was in Jerusalem or Mecca.
The Dome of the Rock encloses a rock outcropping that has been alleged to be the site of Abraham's attempted sacrifice of his son; alternatively, it has been suggested to be the site where Jesus was crucified. It is also where Solomon's temple stood. Whatever the significance, this site has always been revered.
The circumstances surrounding the building of the Dome are unclear.
Finally, the Dome has no qibla itself, is 8 sided and oriented towards circumambulation, and is a building wherein people could actually take refuge.
Given the significance of Jerusalem in all of the Abrahamic traditions, I find it only natural that this should be the qibla rather than a black pagan cube in the middle of the barren desert.
Just my 2 cents, though I am recently myself struggling through this issue and the location of the Prophet, pbuh.
I'll try to gather my thoughts more intelligently and respond again.
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Salam,
Some important guy back in the day (helpful, I know, but it's late; I'll try to pull some articles and fix this) was unsure whether the qibla was in Jerusalem or Mecca.
You are thinking of AbdulMalik Bin Marwan, who was the 5th Ummayed Khalifa.
AbdulMalik is credited with spending a fortune on the improvement of the the Dome of the Rock - including covering the Dome in gold paper. At the same time, he sent an army against the shrine in Mecca, ultimately destroying the walls of the Kaaba with catapaults.
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Salam,
Your thinking of AbdulMalik Bin Marwan, who was the 5th Ummayed Khalifa.
AbdulMalik is credited with spending a fortune on the improvement of the the Dome of the Rock - including covering the Dome in gold paper. At the same time, he sent an army against the shrine in Mecca, ultimately detroying the walls of the Kaaba with catapaults.
Salaam
Just one question How can Jerusalem be ?the city of peace? when its history is full of wars and violence?
Simpls
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Salam,
Just one question How can Jerusalem be ?the city of peace? when its history is full of wars and violence?
Because the "peace" comes from man, not God. The shrine is meant to be a sanctuary, but if people decide they will fight there, then nothing can stop that
?And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you at it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters.? (Qur?an 2191)
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You are thinking of AbdulMalik Bin Marwan, who was the 5th Ummayed Khalifa.
AbdulMalik is credited with spending a fortune on the improvement of the the Dome of the Rock - including covering the Dome in gold paper. At the same time, he sent an army against the shrine in Mecca, ultimately destroying the walls of the Kaaba with catapaults.
Following quotes might have some merits
from http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaaba
quote
The Kaaba has been repaired and reconstructed many times since Muhammad's day. Abd-Allah ibn al-Zubayr, an early Muslim who ruled Mecca for many years between the death of Ali and the consolidation of Ummayad power, is said to have demolished the old Kaaba and rebuilt it to include the hatm, a semi-circular wall now outside the Kaaba. He did so on the basis of a tradition (found in several hadith collections) that the hatm was a remnant of the foundations of the Abrahamic Kaaba, and that Muhammad himself had wished to rebuild so as to include it.This structure was destroyed (or partially destroyed) in 683, during the war between al-Zubayr and Umayyad forces commanded by Al-Hajjaj bin Yousef. Al-Hajjaj used stone-throwing catapults against the Meccans.
The Ummayads under Abdu l-Malik ibn Marwan finally reunited all the former Islamic possessions and ended the long civil war. In 693 he had the remnants of al-Zubayr's Kaaba razed, and rebuilt on the foundations set by the Quraysh. The Kaaba returned to the cube shape it had taken during Muhammad's lifetime.
end quotefrom http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CA%BFAbdu_l-Malik_ibn_Marwan
quote
Abd al-Malik instituted many reforms such as making Arabic the official language of government across the entire empire, instituting a mint that produced a uniform set of aniconic currency, expansion and reorganization of postal service, repairing the damaged Kaaba and beginning the tradition of weaving a silk cover for the Kaaba in Damascus.
end quotePeace,
TruthseekerDisclaimer the study of the Koran is work in progress, every information in any posting on this forum should be controlled by the believers themselves in the best way - verse 1736.
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Salaam,
Because the "peace" comes from man, not God. The shrine is meant to be a sanctuary, but if people decide they will fight there, then nothing can stop that
?And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them at the Restricted Temple unless they fight you at it; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters.? (Qur?an 2191)
I don't agree with this understanding. AlQuraan states
397
397 In it are clear signs the station of Abraham. And whoever enters it will be secure. And Allah is owed from the people to make Pilgrimage to the Sanctuary, whoever can make a path to it. And whoever rejects, then Allah has no need of the worlds."Whoever" includes all, mumins, muslims, kafir, mushriks, munafiq, etc. as Hajj is for all "AlNaas". So, peace for all, nobody will fight there.
Aayat quoted above 2191 is about "AlMasjid AlHaraam" not about "Bakka" nor "AlBayt". Interestingly, everybody has to make pilgrimage to "AlBayt", but "Mushrikeens" are not allowed to come near "AlMasjid AlHaraam" 928
928
928 O you who believe, the polytheists are impure, so let them not approach the Restricted Temple after this year of theirs; and if you fear poverty, then Allah will enrich you from His blessings if He wills. Allah is Knowledgeable, Wise.May Allah guide us all to His true path pr
Mohammed M. Khan -
peace all,
In addition to what Bro mmkhan has said
2125 And when We made the BYT a place of return/filling/reward for mankind and a security...
People can fight at any physical place/location. No location is 100% secure. Can one prove God wrong by simply fighting at such a location or even destroying such a thing? Ponder.
Does HJJ = pilgrimage?
2196 ...then whoever enjoyed in the visit TO the pilgrimage..." ?
etc.?And kill them wherever you encounter them, and expel them from where they expelled you, and know that persecution is worse than being killed. And do not fight them AAinda al masjid al haram unless they fight you fihi; if they fight you then kill them, thus is the recompense of the rejecters.? (Qur?an 2191)
Ayn-Nun-Dal / AAinda = Preposition here, with, by, at the point of, about, from, in the presence of. The word denotes the idea of nearness, whether it be actual in the sense of possession or ideational, it also denotes a sense of rank or dignity or opinion, time and place.
fihi = in/at/on it
)
Just some things to ponder over.
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Today I read a short summary based on a book written by a Canadian Historian named Dan Gibson who has claimed to have spent many years studying the history of the Arabian peninsular.
Here?s the linkwww.searchformecca.com/Mecca Question.pdf
In the his book ?Quranic geography? he claims that the city of Petra is the REAL historical Mecca and that the Mecca of today is the not the city in which Prophet Muhammad came from. I have read the summary of what the book has and I do intend on purchasing the book very soon. Here?s the link http//www.indipress.ca/feature.html
Now he does not say that Jerusalem is the Qibla instead it says that Petra is where the original qibla is situated. In any case archaeological evidence along with clear verses in the Quran (sura 3-96-97) tend to prove that Jerusalem is indeed the correct Qibla since it has been recorded as a major sight of pilgrimage.
?When the old mosque was torn down, the foundation stones of the earlier mosque
revealed that the original building faced north towards both Petra and Jerusalem
which were in almost exactly the same direction. Gibson believes that this
is the origin of the claim that the first qibla faced Jerusalem.? ( The Old Mosque mentioned here is the Mosque of the Two Qiblas. )Also the verses sura 396 ? 97 along with historical and archaeological evidence shows that the original Qibla has to be Jerusalem. Even though he (Mr.Gibson) doesn?t make the claim that Jerusalem is the Real Holy City of Islam he does believe that the rulers back in the day did a lot of ?covering up? and changes in Islam during the periods when they ruled the Islamic world. This is my view explains the perception that I had for a while now that after Muhammad?s death all hell broke loose! What I mean by this is that the Nabataeans who were originally pagans started to evolve the original religion/practices of Islam , and started changing a whole bunch of things in Islam. You can say a sort of blending of religions took place. Myths and superstitions dealing with the Black Stone, revolving around the Kaaba , the kissing of the Black stone all of which are pagan practices of the Nabataean people.
http//wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Pagan_Origins_of_Islam
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
http//www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_nabateans.html (A brief history of the Nabataeans )Note This is exactly the same thing that happened to Christianity. A lot of the Christian practices of today are of Greek and Roman origin.
My conclusions In light of my intense study over the past couple of days I have come to the conclusion that Jerusalem is the Qibla and the correct place of Pilgrimage and not Mecca. This is due to the fact that the Quran says in Sura 396 ? 97 396
?The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.?Facts to remember
- Bakka is located in Jerusalem.
- The earliest mosques built faced Jerusalem and not Mecca
- Jerusalem is a city recognized by the Jews and the Christians as a place of pilgrimage for hundreds of years
- It also explains why Muhammad was preoccupied fighting the Byzantines.
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Salam KDC,
That is interesting work you refer to...The Natural Republic book refers to the same hypothesis - that Mekka of the Quran is Petra while Jerusalem is Bakka.
Salam Khan,
By reading the verses on the subject, you will find that the Masjid Haram and the Bayt are intwined.
That the call to pilgrimage was made to "the people" by Abraham does not negate that a new law/restriction was placed by God - after a specific year - that the polytheists are not to be welcomed there. The Quran brings laws that override/change the laws of Abraham or Moses or Jesus.
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Salam,
I agree with your post. Jerusalem is indeed the Qibla.
Salaam, Layth,
The qiblah for whom, if you don't mind clarifying?
Can you tell me what Temple was destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel? Surah 174-7,1760
Destroyed once by the Babylonian armies of Nebuchadnezzar, with the exile of the Bani Israel to Babylon.
After reconstruction by Cyrus the Persian and Darius I, it was destroyed again in 70 AD by the Roman army of Titus.With the Temple in Jerusalem not only named in the Quran (Surah 171) but also given clear description of its destruction (Surah 174-7,1760), who is Jerusalem qiblah for?
What is the qiblah of the Bani Israel? I Kings 822-44
"...Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built! Regard your servant's prayer and his plea, O Lord my God, heeding the cry and the prayer that your servant prays to you today... Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place... When heaven is shut up and there is no rain because they have sinned against you, and then they pray towards this place, confess your name, and turn from their sin..." I Kings 822-44
Jerusalem.
We are to face Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque. Surah 2144,149,150. Allah tells us this three (3) times.
Allah tells us three (3) times "This is truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters." Surah 2144,147,149The Quran is a Book complete; there is no doubt in it. Allah does not err, nor does He forget. Surah 482, 2052
"In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what is before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe." Surah 12111
As Allah does not change His Sunnah, if Muhammad (pbuh) was exiled from Mecca, then the city of Mecca would have been destroyed. Do you disagree?
If you do disagree, could you please provide proof to support why you disagree?I look forward to your response, Layth.
Syncretism Rituals of Hajj
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jY_6d7KBewProof Midian
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4RHRu3VWJgPeace.
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Salam Raging,
The qiblah for whom, if you don't mind clarifying?
For the Muslims/Submitters.
Can you tell me what Temple was destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel? Surah 174-7,1760
No temple was destroyed in the Quran (you are thinking of Jewish history here - not the Quran).
Destroyed once by the Babylonian armies of Nebuchadnezzar, with the exile of the Bani Israel to Babylon.
After reconstruction by Cyrus the Persian and Darius I, it was destroyed again in 70 AD by the Roman army of Titus.With the Temple in Jerusalem not only named in the Quran (Surah 171) but also given clear description of its destruction (Surah 174-7,1760), who is Jerusalem qiblah for?
The Jews don't even know where they were during the exile. There are various works that link them to the land of Sheba (southern Arabia) as being the location for Solomon and the home of the Jews (they refused to enter the holy land after Egypt, so they were exiled for 40 years during which they settled in southern Arabia).
What is the qiblah of the Bani Israel? I Kings 822-44
"...Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built! Regard your servant's prayer and his plea, O Lord my God, heeding the cry and the prayer that your servant prays to you today... Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place... When heaven is shut up and there is no rain because they have sinned against you, and then they pray towards this place, confess your name, and turn from their sin..." I Kings 822-44
Jerusalem.
So it should be. But they do not hold the Temple Mount to be their Qibla, rather the wailing wall which is a Roman construct.
We are to face Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque. Surah 2144,149,150. Allah tells us this three (3) times.
Allah tells us three (3) times "This is truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters." Surah 2144,147,149The Quran is a Book complete; there is no doubt in it. Allah does not err, nor does He forget. Surah 482, 2052
"In their stories is surely a lesson to men possessed of minds; it is not a tale forged, but a confirmation of what is before it, and a distinguishing of every thing, and a guidance, and a mercy to a people who believe." Surah 12111
As Allah does not change His Sunnah, if Muhammad (pbuh) was exiled from Mecca, then the city of Mecca would have been destroyed. Do you disagree?
If you do disagree, could you please provide proof to support why you disagree?Interesting you refer to 3 times because that is the number of Salat times in the Quran.
Mohammed was exiled from his home - but why do you assume Mecca Arabia was that place? The archeology of Petra makes it the closest candidate for being the true Mecca mentioned in the Quran.
Regards,
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Salam Raging,
For the Muslims/Submitters.
In this I disagree.
We are to face Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque. Surah 2144,149,150. Allah tells us this three (3) times.
Allah tells us three (3) times "This is truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters." Surah 2144,147,149
I am not of the doubters. Masjid Al-Haram is my qiblah.No temple was destroyed in the Quran (you are thinking of Jewish history here - not the Quran).
The Quran disagrees, Layth.
"'If you do good, it is your own souls you do good to, and if you do evil it is to them likewise.' Then, when the promise of the second came to pass, We sent against you Our servants to discountenance you, and to enter the Temple, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy utterly that which they ascended to." Surah 177
The Jews don't even know where they were during the exile.
The Torah/Tanakh not only discusses their exile and time with Nebuchadnezzar (Lamentations, Daniel, Ezra), but also their liberation by Cyrus the Persian (Isaiah, Ezra), who started reconstruction of the Temple, which was completed by Darius I.
Your claim the Yahud don't know where they were is not founded on what they teach from the Torah/Tanakh that they still possess. (Torah/Tanakh is the Old Testament.)There are various works that link them to the land of Sheba (southern Arabia) as being the location for Solomon and the home of the Jews (they refused to enter the holy land after Egypt, so they were exiled for 40 years during which they settled in southern Arabia).
So you admit to upholding teachings outside of the Quran and the previous Books to make your claims.
I understand the search for knowledge and understanding, but the Quran confirms the Truth in previous Books, not vice-versa. Allah does not make mistakes, nor does He forget. Surah 482, 2052"And We decreed for the Children of Israel in the Book 'You shall do corruption in the earth twice, and you shall ascend exceeding high.'
So, when the promise of the first of these came to pass, We sent against you servants of Ours, men of great might, and they went through the habitations, and it was a promise performed.
Then We gave back to you the turn to prevail over them, and We succoured you with wealth and children, and We made you a greater host.
'If you do good, it is your own souls you do good to, and if you do evil it is to them likewise.' Then, when the promise of the second came to pass, We sent against you Our servants to discountenance you, and to enter the Temple, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy utterly that which they ascended to." Surah 174-7So it should be. But they do not hold the Temple Mount to be their Qibla, rather the wailing wall which is a Roman construct.
The Quran makes it clear the precincts are what is blessed, not a construction within it. Surah 171
"Glory be to Him, who carried His servant by night from the Holy Mosque (almasjidi alharami) to the Further Mosque (almasjidi al-aqsa) the precincts of which We have blessed, that We might show him some of Our signs. He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing." Surah 171
The Dome of the Rock is of Byzantine design, as proven by the heterogeneous character of its elements. It was a pagan temple of Zeus, created at the command of Hadrian after the first Jewish revolt.
Regardless of what the Yahud call their qiblah, I will not be asked what they believe or do. I will only be asked what I believe and do.Interesting you refer to 3 times because that is the number of Salat times in the Quran.
So you believe.
Mohammed was exiled from his home - but why do you assume Mecca Arabia was that place? The archeology of Petra makes it the closest candidate for being the true Mecca mentioned in the Quran.
You either have not done your research into what I believe and/or you attempt a strawman.
Had Muhammad (pbuh) been exiled from Mecca, Mecca would have been destroyed by Allah for their disbelief. Allah does not change His Sunnah.
Throughout the Pilgrimage/Hajj forum I have not said Muhammad (pbuh) was exiled from Mecca, but from Midian, in the lands of Nabatea.Proof Midian
http//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4RHRu3VWJgCan you show where Midian is located?
I am not a guide, nor a guardian for anyone. You are welcome to believe whatever you want.
My obligation is only to remind. To you are your deeds and to me are mine. In the End, we will be told in what we differ, and we will know who is rightly guided, and who is not. )Peace.
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i am so confused now...
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i am so confused now...
It?s not confusing at all. It's just a matter of simple deduction and common sense.
Question Where did Muhammad live?
Answer He lived near Sodom and Gomorrah
Proof Sura 37133-138
And Lot was one of the messengers. When We saved him and all his family. Except an old woman who remained. Then, We destroyed the rest. You pass by their ruins in the morning; In the night.Do you not understand?Where is Sodom and Gomorrah?
Most scholars and biblical sources believe it is near the Dead Sea. http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_GomorrahWhich city was active near the Dead Sea during Muhammad?s life time?
Answer The city of Petra.Proof that Petra was the city.
Read this 28 page summary of the book ?Quranic Geography by Dan Gibson? It shows proof that the Mecca of today was not the Mecca in which Muhammad lived. The summary also uses Islamic sources and historical evidence to prove his point.
---- www.searchformecca.com/Mecca Question.pdf Please take the time to read it. 28 pgs is not much.What gods did the people of Petra worship?
? Dushara was the main male god accompanied by his female trinity Al-?Uzz?, Allat and Mant ?
--- http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petra
Sura 5319-20
Have you considered Allaat and Al-Uzzah?
And Manaat, the third one?What city was the site of Pilgrimage for hundreds of years for the Jews and Christians?
Answer Jerusalem. For those of you who have read the Bible you would know that Jerusalem was the original Qibla and was the original site of Pilgrimage for the Jews for hundreds of yearsWhere is the Restricted Temple ( The site of pilgrimage)?
Sura 396-97 The first house established for the public is the one in Bakka, blessed, and guidance for the worlds.
In it are clear signs the place of Abraham. Whoever enters it will be secure. Pilgrimage to the sanctuary is a duty from God for the people who can afford a means to it. Whoever rejects, and then God has no need of the worlds.Check out this Map http//free-minds.org/sites/default/files/jerusalem_93.jpg
As you can see it is Bakka. Bakka is a place in Jerusalem.Note Bekka is NOT Mecca. They do rhyme but they are two different places!!!!
Questions to ask yourself
(1) Why isn?t there any historical evidence to prove that Mecca was a major site of Pilgrimage during the time when Muhammad was alive?(2) If Mecca was so important why didn?t any of the Prophets visit it for Pilgrimage?
(3) Why did the earliest Mosques(during Muhammad?s Time) face Jerusalem?
(4) Why did some of the Muslim leaders during the early years after Muhammad?s death uncertain about the Qibla? Read www.searchformecca.com/Mecca Question.pdf
A Question for those who follow the Quran Alone
(1) If the so called ?Muslims? were wrong about almost everything in Islam wouldn?t it be intelligent to question if they got the right Qibla too? For those of you who truly believe and are serious about your religion ask yourself these questions and ask God for guidance. Also remember that a little more reading never hurts anyone.
peace
