Lost Salafi Here
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I have enjoyed lurking this thread rotfl
Jafar,
Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.
The advantages of following the truth are numerous. If you submit to God you will be among the successful ones on the day of judgment, earning a fantastic, endless reward from God. In this worldly life you will be rewarded with all sorts of good things that you ask God to bestow on you, including inner peace and patience. This will make you a better neighbor, husband and father.
You will still need to pick your nose though.Peace!
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Sarah,
As a young man when I still had my own set of teeth my teacher said that I would go far in life; I think she would have been content with just the next village, but though I'm just a country fellow suffering intellectual famine I don't think I'm the only one to find the Quran hardgoing. To pick one of the shorter chapters for the sake of convenience, consider Sura al-Qureysh
For the taming of Qureysh.
For their taming (We cause) the caravans to set forth in winter and summer.
So let them worship the Lord of this House,
Who hath fed them against hunger and hath made them safe from fear.
If this is a communication from a supernatural power that wants to convey an urgent message in a language I can understand, what is this message intended to say?
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Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.
Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.
Only you can find the answer, my friend. Embracing Islam is not merely acknowledging God?s existence or adopting the muslim label. It is about understanding and implementing God?s systems. Endlessly seeking for knowledge, constant questioning, and you may discover what it is to become a better person. One can find the way by reading the Bible, while others can find in the Qur?an.
Simply by labeling oneself as a ?God-alone? muslim is not enough. Adopting the muslim label does not necessarily make some a better person. Just like being a Christian, a Jew, a Hindu, a Buddhist ? the labeling really does not matter.
Going back to your question, will Islam make you a better person? Well open the Qur?aan, and ask YOURSELF if by applying Qur?anic commandments will make you a better person. Let?s push aside the ?wife-beating? or ?cutting hand? verses which can be subjected to different interpretation. Now see for YOURSELF, if you can see the wisdom behind commandments such as
- Treating the wives with kindness (419)
- Maintaining humility and speaking modest speech even to the ignorants (2536)
- Giving charity regularly, whenever you receive an income (6141)
- Honouring your parents (1723, 3114)
- Shunning usury (2278, 3130)
- Protecting the orphans (42, 2215, 436)
- Freeing slaves (9013)
- Maintaining modesty in the presence of the opposite sex (2430-31)
- Honouring your neighbours (436)
- Refraining from gambling (590-591)
And many other commandments that I cannot think off right now. Anyway, just ask YOURSELF if by following those commandments will make you a better person or not. Also, approach any Scriptures, which is not limited to the Qur?an, with a genuine intention to gain knowledge and the truth, and not merely to find mistakes and criticize, in order to make you feel superior about your pre-conceived beliefs and views. That?s all I can contribute.
Peace.
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I have enjoyed lurking this thread rotfl
The advantages of following the truth are numerous. If you submit to God you will be among the successful ones on the day of judgment, earning a fantastic, endless reward from God. In this worldly life you will be rewarded with all sorts of good things that you ask God to bestow on you, including inner peace and patience. This will make you a better neighbor, husband and father.
You will still need to pick your nose though.Peace!
Intriguing. I would like to have a share of inner peace. That sounds like a meritorious end. So what time can you take my kids off my hands? I will pay you handsomely.
But I've gotta say that the prospect of Jannah doesn't tickle my interest for I can't bear the notion of immortality. I think death is a release from the treadmill of desire, gratification, desire, gratification. To live in the cosmic brothel of the Islamic conception of paradise through which rivers of wine flow seems to me too great a carnality for even a Shaytan like me.
Can't you offer something more resposeful akin to Nirvana?
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Going back to your question, will Islam make you a better person? Well open the Qur?aan, and ask YOURSELF if by applying Qur?anic commandments will make you a better person. Let?s push aside the ?wife-beating? or ?cutting hand? verses which can be subjected to different interpretation. Now see for YOURSELF, if you can see the wisdom behind commandments such as
- Treating the wives with kindness (419)
- Maintaining humility and speaking modest speech even to the ignorants (2536)
- Giving charity regularly, whenever you receive an income (6141)
- Honouring your parents (1723, 3114)
- Shunning usury (2278, 3130)
- Protecting the orphans (42, 2215, 436)
- Freeing slaves (9013)
- Maintaining modesty in the presence of the opposite sex (2430-31)
- Honouring your neighbours (436)
- Refraining from gambling (590-591)
And many other commandments that I cannot think off right now. Anyway, just ask YOURSELF if by following those commandments will make you a better person or not. Also, approach any Scriptures, which is not limited to the Qur?an, with a genuine intention to gain knowledge and the truth, and not merely to find mistakes and criticize, in order to make you feel superior about your pre-conceived beliefs and views. That?s all I can contribute.
Peace.
Very wise words. Can I put a ring on that finger sister? I need a second wife.
The rumour is that syncretic creeds are frowned upon on this board so why haven't you been stoned yet for flirting with other scriptures? I will report you.
There is much to recommend your brand of Islam; if I had to outfit myself in a flowing robe complimented with a black turban that bakes my skull in the summer heat and scrape my head on the floor of any Muslim school of thought it would be yours. It's the grandest, finest, smartest theology that ever set up shop on this globe of sin.
But I'm set aback by the modesty element. In my native village of Anatolia it is disreputable not to have a keen eye for pretty ankles. Our motto there is Repent not when thy semen gushes!
How does this gel with your moral code?
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Very wise words. Can I put a ring on that finger sister? I need a second wife.
As blunt as I can be. No, thank you. Don't think you can handle a woman like me.
PS You need much more than a ring to sweep me off my feet.
The rumour is that syncretic creeds are frowned upon on this board so why haven't you been stoned yet for flirting with other scriptures? I will report you.
Simply because you take generalization of the whole muslim population based on an extremist minority group. Just because extremists who label themselves as muslims stone ?apostates?, does not mean other muslims practice the same. Many of my traditional muslim friends know that I reject the divinity of hadiths, and no one has problems with it.
By the way, I ain?t just flirting with other Scriptures. I touch ?em when I feel the urge? to learn more about the world?s belief systems.
There is much to recommend your brand of Islam; if I had to outfit myself in a flowing robe complimented with a black turban that bakes my skull in the summer heat and scrape my head on the floor of any Muslim school of thought it would be yours. It's the grandest, finest, smartest theology that ever set up shop on this globe of sin.
Really don?t think that would suit you.
But I'm set aback by the modesty element. In my native village of Anatolia it is disreputable not to have a keen eye for pretty ankles. Our motto there is Repent not when thy semen gushes!
How does this gel with your moral code?
My moral code regarding modesty and sexuality? Desires are there to be controlled, and not be eliminated. There is nothing wrong with volcanoes erupting inside your body, creating intense heat that makes you want to explode. It?s part of human biological program. What matters most is how you control such desires.
Anyway, since your native village is in Anatolia, why don?t you think more about the East, and not towards down South.
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Jafar,
Your cosmopolitan ethos seduces me like a woman in the night. Steady, this Beardo's married. Unfaithfully.
Your creed is very forward looking. Perhaps just a bit too modern. For if the divine truth may be plucked from the ether without ever looking between the covers of a book, why did Allah stay up all night to write his masterpiece?
We can answer the how and to some extent the what regarding the 'Master of all Universes'.
But we shall never grasp the 'why'... or the 'basic argumentation/intention'...
And even in the Quran there are many occasions where His answer to the 'why' question were as simple as
"I know better than you!. dumb ass!"Example
"And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a replacement (ArabicCaliph)."
They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?"
The God said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know." (230)Having said that... it doesn't mean that you should not post that question to Him..
Post it to Him... and perhaps He shall answer to you..
I mean.. with different answer than "I know better than you!. dumb ass!"
Although if He did answer with such answer.. you did beforehand manage your expectation right??To my eye the allure of faith is that it asserts a degree of moral oneupmanship. Buy into the One True God and all troubles will cease, the angels will become your poker buddies and the shapely young babes of Jannah will spread their legs. You know the gambit.
Well yes to some degree it's true... however the main question is actually how you "Buy into the One True God" which could be a complicated question. And as usual.. action speak louder than words my friend...
Let me share with you that it is 'reciprocal'... treat others the same way as you would like to be treated as He will treat you the same way as you treat others.. This is the constant theme found in many part of wisdom books...
As a comparison within eastern culture this is known as the 'Karmic' law.."Forgive us for our sins, as we forgive others who has sinned against us"
A long haired jewish dude once said...Question What is the advantage of reverting to Islam for one so constructed as me? Dangle the meat in front of me a little.
Will I be a better father, a better friend or a better neighbour; will I beat my wife less, pick not my nose and learn to quit slapping around my kids? Help me.Let me start answering with the basic rule of engagement..
My dear friend I'm not trying to 'convert' you... please please please put the sectarian conception of 'convertion' far away from your (already) exploded head..islam is not a sect or religion
islam (without the capital i) is an A-ttitude. (pronounce this as the NY black rapper said it in their coolest manner.. it's an A-ttitude bro!)
islam is an arabic word for 'submission' / 'acceptance' / 'peacefully accept', in hebrew it's 'taslam'...
when you peacefully accept any of God's will, then life will be happier and easier for you..
The only A-ttitude acceptable to God is to peacefully submit to His will... as saith in the Quran..A long haired jewish dude allegedly saith this during one of his time of anguish and despair.
"Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me but not as what I will, but as what thou wilt."That's why in the Quran, the before mentioned long haired jewish dude are being called as a 'moslem' (those who had an islam A-ttitude) and furthermore he's being mentioned as an 'example to human kind'.
Did the long haired Jewish dude ever read the Quran? did he proclaim the sunni style of shahada? did he ever do a 7 times roundabout jogging around a black cube? did he ever received an Eucharist from an authoritative priest? Nope...
Having said that..
Oh my God did you ever did such things? I mean slapping your wife and kids?
Come on stop it dude... treat others the same way as you would like to be treated.. as He will treat you the same way as you treat others..Salam / Peace
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Born Again
How can I stop looking south of my belt when I meet a pretty young thing like you? Impossible. I was hoping we might finalise my Shahadah over a candle lit dinner washed down with a bottle of the finest red wine to ever kiss the lips of men. I'm Gutted.
Mistaken is the notion that I have a skewed picture of Muslims. I was jesting about the stoning as I thought was quite plain, but I suppose I will have to use emoticons from hence forward. How many do I need? Ten should do the trick.
Before you can make this ruggedly handsome gallant your hubby the halal way I need some theological questions urgently resolved. Are you ready my sweet? Let's play.
For one thing, if one believes in Darwinian evolution as I gather many of you heretics do, if man is not a fallen creature expelled from the shady groves of Jannah to live in weary toil for the rest of his days till his spirit takes flight, why does the Quran say that Adam?s prelapsarian existence was shattered by sin? Science maintains that man is an evolved creature and Islam that we have descended from a higher state of bliss. What is a guy to believe? Help me sister. I'm confused.
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Well if anything you win the PXU Tastelessness award 2011.
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Jafar,
My significant other rules me autocratically by keeping yours truly on a tight, tight leash so how can I pounce on her? Do you wanna see my ten inch scars? I type this, gentle reader, from a wheelchair.
On a breezy day many winters ago, after denouncing the high gods for years without number, my flame-haired wife was struck thunderously by what's called an epiphany. "Quit your godless folly" she said, "or no copulation, no marriage, no children's visitation."
I rose up manfully and made a heroic stand for reason, but shortly therafter, tormented by the promptings of the flesh, I saw the folly of my way and bent the knee. A man does well to obey his wife. Let every man take note of the dangerous biological weapons of the Fairer Sex, their subtle designs, their cunning, their bite. For this we should stand? Bosh!
The only virtue of the beardo's creed for which I hanker is that it keeps the skirting-clutching feministas firmly in line. Stick it to 'em Mo! I wish I could pull out Sura 4 Verse 34 on the disobedient creature, but I'm afraid I'm no match for her muscle. What shall I do?
Incidentally, the Quranic passage you posted about the creation of Adam grabs my interest. It is a question I asked of Born Again, but I would like to add another element to the equation. One of the posters (I think Raging Gaijing) said that the Shaytan is a metaphor for one's ego, but this would seem to gainsay the story of Adam's expulsion from Jannah because the Quran says that Allah ejected Iblis out of the Garden when he refused to genuflect before Adam, so if Iblis can be physically thrown out of the Garden it can't be Adam's ego for Adam sinned after the Shaytan was driven out suggesting that his ego was very much inside the pearly gates.
So who precisely do you understand Iblis to be?
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How can I stop looking south of my belt when I meet a pretty young thing like you? Impossible.
Then I?ll be insulted, because you?re busy lookin? at your own thing, rather than me in the eyes. Consider the flirting a failed cause.
I was hoping we might finalise my Shahadah over a candle lit dinner washed down with a bottle of the finest red wine to ever kiss the lips of men. I'm Gutted.
?Afraid to say that I am a one-man woman. Plurality of the male species should not be mentioned in a supposedly romantic proposal.
Mistaken is the notion that I have a skewed picture of Muslims. I was jesting about the stoning as I thought was quite plain, but I suppose I will have to use emoticons from hence forward. How many do I need? Ten should do the trick.
Ah Sir, you jest at scars that never felt a wound. Jokin? about a distorted image of muslims seem pretty fun, aye? Mayhaps you need to consider how others may take such humour. That being said, I am not offended.
Since you want to use emoticons, may I suggest
http//www.railbirds.com/gallery/2007/11/7598NotWorthySmiley.gif
Before you can make this ruggedly handsome gallant your hubby the halal way I need some theological questions urgently resolved. Are you ready my sweet? Let's play.
Ruggedly handsome man? Tell me where! ?cause I ain?t seeing any!
By the way, need I reveal that I am not a sweet one. I?m rather bitter, and poisonous. And if you want me to do it the halal way, be prepared for me to slit your neck.
For one thing, if one believes in Darwinian evolution as I gather many of you heretics do, if man is not a fallen creature expelled from the shady groves of Jannah to live in weary toil for the rest of his days till his spirit takes flight, why does the Quran say that Adam?s prelapsarian existence was shattered by sin? Science maintains that man is an evolved creature and Islam that we have descended from a higher state of bliss. What is a guy to believe? Help me sister. I'm confused.
May I first assume that you read into the Adam story literally, than you interpret Adam as a name of a man, instead of the metaphor of mankind? I suggest that you read previous threads on the interpretation of the narration of Adam, before raising such question lest that the same thing be said over and over again, rather than being all geared up (or maybe not geared up after all) to verbally wrestle others. WWF style.
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Born Again
I like a fiesty girl. If I desert my wife and ten barefoot chillun can I put my lips on you? I promise not to give you syphilis.
I don't think my views on Shariah are "distorted". Quite apart from the number of highly influential Muslim countries governed by Shariah, polls have consistently shown that even among vast tracts of Western Muslims there is considerable support for Towelheadism. Not a majority by all means, but nor the piddling minority which some Muslims would like us to imagine. Setting aside polls, I know this from my own Salafi adventures.
I much rather I heard the answer about evolution from your own seductive lips, but I will settle for another's thread on the question of Adam, Eve and the whispering agent of doom.
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So who precisely do you understand Iblis to be?
Beardo, I don't know...
But let this time around, for the sake of discussion assume that Iblis is indeed a kind of 'being' who are invisible to the naked eye, who possess all of the bad/evil qualities and characters. It is saith that this invisible being are indeed the adversary (arabicShaytan) of human who made an oath to led astray the human population as much as possible...
Having said that; if I DO know PRECISELY what kind of being this IBLIS is..
He will not be much of a 'threat' would he?
Given his only advantage so far is that he posses knowledge about us while we knew nothing of him..(or her or perhaps it)Believe me I wish I (or other human being) DO know PRECISELY what kind of being this IBLIS is..
As thus we can study it, research it and eventually find it's weaknesses and can devise a 'weapon' to end it for good!But I guess that's not what God has in mind.. at least up until now..
God however did reveal regarding this Iblis characters / qualities, perhaps as a lesson for not to 'imitate' him.Truly sorry on hearing what happened between you and your wive..
Not all 'female homo sapiens' are like that.. we should not do a 'stereotyping' based on gender...
But I'm glad that you're not the one who beat her or you ever beat one of your children....Although I'm curious, why did she said 'Quit your godless folly'??
Salam / Peace
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Paradox Uncreated
A thousand apologies. I should have known better than to pass you over for another lovely. I have high standards sister. But for keeping strong in the face of countless rejections I am confident that you will be amply rewarded by a just and intelligent God.
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Not a chance, Sir. Once a man is unfaithful to a woman, then he will not stay faithful to anyone. Besides, when men are as abundant as the stars, why shall I settle for the likes of you?
I am afraid you have not encountered enough muslims in your life. Most muslims I know don't encourage the implementation of "shariah' (by shariah, I assume we are talking about inhumane laws practiced in some conservative countries under the banner of Islam). And may I remind you, that the country with the most muslim population, Indonesia, is in fact not practicing "shariah" as its legal laws except for one state? And I can say with confidence, that those muslims (whom I have interfaced) are not in support of "shariah' laws?
What I have, to convey, is not lips, but rather fingers to type. I am afraid I cannot do much to entertain your mind. I must say, I am glad you warm up to reading previous threads.
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Paradox Uncreated
A thousand apologies. I should have known better than to pass you over for another lovely. I have high standards sister. But for keeping strong in the face of countless rejections I am confident that you will be amply rewarded by a just and intelligent God.
Too bad modern law restricts us so. Apparently there is something very wrong with this mans head, and it should be amputated.
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Jafar,
I was teasing about the marital problems. My wife is a delicate flower and I am a big softie who could not wrestle a school girl to the ground.
It is true that my better half and I diverge on first and last things. After many years of training her artillery fire on the heavens she made her peace with God in recent years and now is something vageuly religious. Not in the orthodox sense of belonging to a formal creed ; she and I are agreed upon our anti-clericalism; but she lights her candle at the altar of a personal God. If that deity sounds rather much like the Deist version of a cosmic engineer who after kickstarting the universe repaired to a dignified retirement home and snoozed for the end of time you might just be right.
I bear no grudge against deism and watch the spectacle with quiet amusement.
Your theology seems like a work in progress. I would have thought you might have so fundamental a thing as the creation story smoothed out by now, but maybe that's my dogmatic Salafi alter ego talking.
Pressing question If the Eden story is just an allegory and man is a trousered ape, at what point in our slow climb out of the primordial seas did God breathe an imperishable soul into homo sapiens?
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Not a chance, Sir. Once a man is unfaithful to a woman, then he will not stay faithful to anyone. Besides, when men are as abundant as the stars, why shall I settle for the likes of you?
You misunderstand. I don't propose that you settle down with me. As you've hinted man is a creature so constructed that when the red mist of lust descends, off he goes running after the nearest skirt. You are an accomplished psychologist. I will give you that. What I propose is more sensible and practical and Islamic. Let me warehouse you in my damp basement down which my wife never goes so we might carry on a passionate amorous entanglement to shake Allah's throne.
If you behave and not make too much noise I will let you out to bathe once a month, feed you goat milk and cheese and belt you no more than twice a day according to the stipulations of the Shariah.
You must not decline this once in a lifetime offer sister.
Galloping on to more engaging themes, I'm more than happy to outfit my tiny brain with the relevant threads about the Quranist take on Creation and science. Link?
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Too bad modern law restricts us so. Apparently there is something very wrong with this mans head, and it should be amputated.
Why should biology get in the way of the love that dare not speak its name? If you let me squeeze you like a bunny, if I can mount you like a bison, I promise you'll walk funny in the morning beaming a radiant smile.