Why I believe in the return of Isa

the_path_of_light

Now obviously, both the Koran and the New Testament offer a better solution than stoning another human being to death. But on this particular topic, I think forgiveness is superior to one-hundred lashings (the thought of which literally hurts my stomach). So yeah, I'll go with the New Testament on this one.

I know, I'm going to hell.

D

unknownuser

Perhaps you may be reminded that 100 lashings is nothing compared to the pain of a child growing up father/motherless.

Does that hurt your stomach?

the_path_of_light

I don't understand what you're saying. I've already acknowledged that 100 lashings is better than getting stoned to death. But even better than one-hundred lashing is forgiveness.

I feel like an argument is coming, but I'm not sure what the sides are. I'll get back to you later. Peace.

Layth

Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

Mazhar

I give an exemple
the word
SABR , is arabic dictianneries , it means patience , so let's look at this word is every language
Frensh = Sobre , English = Sober, spanish/italian = Sobre .... so in evey language, Sober means been sober , except in arabic language, means passiv patience??? strange

so?ber
adjective (comparative so?ber?er, superlative so?ber?est)

not intoxicated not under the influence of drugs or alcohol
tending not to drink not in the habit of drinking much alcohol or using drugs
serious serious and thoughtful in demeanor or quality
a sober face
dull lacking vitality or brightness in appearance
He always dresses in sober colors.
not fanciful or speculative based on facts and rational thinking rather than on speculation
a sober assessment of the situation

transitive and intransitive verb (past and past participle so?bered, present participle so?ber?ing, 3rd person present singular so?bers)

Same as sober up
become or make somebody serious to become more serious or thoughtful, or make somebody become so
His expression sobered.

-so?ber?ly, , adverb
-so?ber?ness, , noun
Microsoft? Encarta? 2006. ? 1993-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

pa?tient
adjective

capable of waiting able to endure waiting, delay, or provocation without becoming annoyed or upset
capable of persevering able to persevere calmly, especially when faced with difficulties

The positive aspect in sober is also built in the word patient.

the_path_of_light

Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

I respectfully disagree.

GODsubmitter

I respectfully disagree.

ME TOO!

the_path_of_light

Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

This is potentially very dangerous thinking on your part. This is the type of mindset that leads to intolerance, which breeds violence. Some of you are in danger of becoming just another dangerous sect of religious fundamentalists.

Like it or not, you are going to have to accept people like me. There are a lot of heretics in the world taking their relationship with the Infinite Creator into their own hands. I actually can pick and choose from different traditions. When you say I can't pick and choose from Quranic law, what exactly does that mean? Physically, I can do it. I pick up the book, and am free to interpret/accept/reject things from it as I am guided. Are you saying I am not allowed? I thought there was no compulsion in religion. I take a creative approach to my spirituality. Deal with it.

I find it really frightening that somebody would take it upon themselves to dictate how another sentient being interacts with God. God is bigger than any book. It says as much in the Koran.

That being said, I respect your opinion because you are a living, breathing creation of God.

Mazhar

Quote from Layth on Yesterday at 124518 AM
Dear path of light,

Quranic law is not something you can "pick and chose" it is really all or nothing.

This is potentially very dangerous thinking on your part. This is the type of mindset that leads to intolerance, which breeds violence. Some of you are in danger of becoming just another dangerous sect of religious fundamentalists.

And if it is taken to mean what Layeth has said as conveying this injunction then!!!!

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.85f.gif
Is it for reason that you accept some part of the Book and reject/deny some part of the Book?

The consequence would be
Therefore, the return/reward/punishment for anyone amongst you who does this act of accepting some and refusing some part of the Book shall be nothing except disgrace/ignominy in the life of this world; and on the Day of Judgment such people shall be taken to the grievous torture/chastisement. Beware, Allah, the Exalted is never unmindful about that which acts you people are/keep doing.

the_path_of_light

And if it is taken to mean what Layeth has said as conveying this injunction then!!!!

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.85f.gif
Is it for reason that you accept some part of the Book and reject/deny some part of the Book?

The consequence would be
Therefore, the return/reward/punishment for anyone amongst you who does this act of accepting some and refusing some part of the Book shall be nothing except disgrace/ignominy in the life of this world; and on the Day of Judgment such people shall be taken to the grievous torture/chastisement. Beware, Allah, the Exalted is never unmindful about that which acts you people are/keep doing.

Mazhar, I hope you can rest easily knowing that your god is going to send me "to the grievous torture." I'm sure that brings you a lot of joy. You put the fun in religious fundamentalism.

)

Mazhar

This/here is that Book, you will find all the time reading it, which has the characteristic that within its contents there is absolutely no suspicious/conjectural/whimsical/conflicting/un-certain/illusory/perplexing/disconcerting matter, causing distraught emotional uncertain states/psychological disturbance. .

This emphatic and absolute negation of presence of any statement within the Book, that might cause disturbance, disquiet or agitation of minds and hearts, helps satisfy your concern, apprehension and uncertainty regarding achievement of the objective of reading a book. This negation might place your mind in tranquil state since it subtly suggests that you will certainly find in the Book nothing but the established and proven truth, a source of tranquility of heart and mind.

However, if your claim is that you are a truth seeker then it has also created an obligation upon you; now you cannot refuse reading it otherwise you will expose yourself, that in fact you are not a truth-seeker but a prisoner of own thoughts and passions. A truth seeker is never biased, prejudiced and whimsical. He is left with no option but to read the Book and accept its contents or venture to prove them wrong. Being claimant of truth-seeker, you have to read it. Reading of a book creates a liability and obligation upon the reader. He has either to accept its words or discard its version by a counter argument and evidence of fact negating its statement.

Introduction of Qur'aan The only Infinitely Reliable Book

GODsubmitter

Listen Mazhar,

your translation might be even right or quite accurate, but that doesn't entitle you to force it upon anybody else.
I see a lot of proselytism (hidden and open) in many posts in this Forum. ("No obligation in religion!&quot

If the Quran is Word of God, and is meant for all mankind, then even a woman who cleans the corridors and stairways in my building, who is half-educated, should understand it when reading it, because she is also a Muslim and reads the Quran.

The Quran is meant for each and everyone to be understood and accepted to his best abilities. Only a messenger with some kind of proof (as Rashad Khalifa for example) could be entitled to give some kind of interpretation and purify Quran's application! Otherwise its vague approximate deciphering can lead to infinite nonsense and contradictions. The good example is the ongoing debate about salat and ritual prayer which can be read in corresponding posts.

Reading of a book creates a liability and obligation upon the reader. He has either to accept its words or discard its version by a counter argument and evidence of fact negating its statement.

Quran doesn't say that, who says that? you?

Mazhar

Quote
Reading of a book creates a liability and obligation upon the reader. He has either to accept its words or discard its version by a counter argument and evidence of fact negating its statement.

Quran doesn't say that, who says that? you?

My quote was with relation to a truth seeker.
It did not include the cheats since Rashad Khalifa did not understand this basic principle of reading a book, therefore, it does not make sense to you and thereby you pronounce authoritatively that Qur'aan does not say that.

Reading a book is an act and act is done when there is a stimuli, an objective in mind desired to be achieved through the intended act.

For a cheat reading a book might not create an obligation upon him to follow in life, in letter and spirit, its injunctions, information and other contents since the nature of stimuli was different.

But for those who read the book under the stimuli of finding and knowing the truth, the book does creeate an obligation that he should adopt and follow it in his life.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.092.gif
And this is the Book , We have sent it. This has been given permanence and perpetuation/the striking peculiarity of it is that it is prescribed/stay for ever.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/006.%20Al%20Anaam/temp%2002%206.155.gif
Therefore you people physically follow the Grand Qur'aan in letter and spirit/without in between there being intervention of third party, and remain cautious avoiding unrestrained conduct so that you people may get mercy/salvation.

http//www.haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/007.%20Al%20Airaaf/Temp%2001%207.003c.gif
You people physically follow, in letter and spirit without in between there being intervention of third party, that Book/Grand Qur'aan which has since been sent for you people from your Sustainer Lord

the_path_of_light

If there existed an infallible book, the world would not be the bloodbath it is today.

And no, I am absolutely not going to compromise my morality in order to fit my worldview into your interpretation of a book.

Everywhere you look, there is the face of God. Even when you are looking in the direction of a heretic. Enjoy your fundamentalist outlook on reality and its accompanying condemnation of people to "grievous torture." You are quite a charming individual.

I'm done debating with you on this particular topic. It's pretty lame.

GODsubmitter

You are perfectly right the path of light dear brother, and it seems to me that brother Mazhar forgot that Allah is Merciful and Dispenser of Grace.
Embedded in his semantic research and meticulous analysis of the text, perhaps he simply overlooked the fact that almost EVERY Surah starts with "Bissmilahi Rachmani Racheem" by no accident or casual formality.
"In the names (attributes) of God Who is the Most Merciful, Most Gracious". It is not unimportant I think!

On the other hand, I greatly admire Mazhar's effort and huge contribution of his translation on his site.

But thanks to God that God understands every language and every thought, and that He is far more Merciful and Wiser than any human or jinn!

Mazhar

You are perfectly right the path of light dear brother, and it seems to me that brother Mazhar forgot that Allah is Merciful and Dispenser of Grace.
Embedded in his semantic research and meticulous analysis of the text, he simply overlooked the fact that almost EVERY Surah starts with Bissmilahi Rachmani Racheem.
"In the names (attributes) of God Who is the Most Merciful, Most Gracious". It is not unimportant I think!

On the other hand, I greatly admire Mazhar's effort and huge contribution of his translation on his site.

But thanks to God that God understands every language and every thought, and that He is far more Merciful and Wiser than any human or jinn!

Punishing the convicts and criminals is but the manifestation of mercy.

exodus

Congrats the Dreamer, you spot on! I have also noticed that Isa's issue with death many years ago just like you.

It is very annoying to see The Dreamer's very noticeable observation slaughtered by feckless posts.

unknownuser

If there existed an infallible book, the world would not be the bloodbath it is today.

And no, I am absolutely not going to compromise my morality in order to fit my worldview into your interpretation of a book.

Everywhere you look, there is the face of God. Even when you are looking in the direction of a heretic. Enjoy your fundamentalist outlook on reality and its accompanying condemnation of people to "grievous torture." You are quite a charming individual.

I'm done debating with you on this particular topic. It's pretty lame.

Peace

Quran came in Arabic, it was infallible in Arabic. Without quran, Muslim conquest of the world could not have happened.

Then came the Quran translators, and then came the Quran translations.

What kind of Quran translation are You?

Peace

hoesni01

Pl read 2134 of the Quran and decide if Prophet Isa is coming back. Of course he will be around on judgement day.
Would appreciate some comments on the above,
SALAM

Bigmo

I think this topic should be discussed after reaching a conclusion of whether the Gospel can be relied upon. Knowing whether Jesus will return should be done based on a New Testament analysis and not necessarily the Koran.