Winter Ramadan Investigation (as outlined by The Natural Republic)

Eikonoklastes

May peace be with you all!

Recently I have been trying to study the outline of Ramadan, The Night of Decree, including it's specific timing, etc. I find it quite difficult to believe that these important times of the year rely upon arbitrary, man-made calendars. Allah has a system, and I do believe there is some sort of cosmic calendar in order.

Indeed we find the Quran has many clues regarding the sun and it's positions, as well as the moon and it's phases, etc. and their purposes. Recently I've been reading The Natural Republic by The Monotheist Group (http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/TNR.pdf) that seeks to explain the Islamic calendar (chapter 13). I believe the views are that of brother Layth's as it matches his two articles on this site (http//free-minds.org/calendars & http//free-minds.org/qadr).

There are a few issues that I have with it however, and I'm hoping that anyone who follows this system can please help clarify them for me.

When does the year begin?

TNR says based on 971-5 mentioning the importance of the Night of Decree, it makes it most worthy to use as a marker for the beginning of the year. Is this just a matter of opinion? Where objectively confirms this?

The Spirits and the Angels Come Down

From what I understand, the author is linking the Night of Decree to the conception of Jesus due to the fact that both of these times have the coming down of both Spirit and Angels. Thus, we can use the clues we have to find out when Jesus was conceived to also find the Night of Decree. My only question is, are these the only 2 times this phenomena has happened? Is there anywhere that proves this hasn't happened at other holy events, that may not be during the Winter Solstice?

Night of Decree = Winter Solstice

Isn't this quite the assumption? The only basis here is that Night of Decree is a blessed night, and the Winter Solstice is the longest night, therefore it should be the Night of Decree. I understand it's peculiar that it also lands around the assumed conception of Jesus/Night of Decree, but wouldn't the Quran be a bit more certain about this? Is there anywhere that proves the Night of Decree is the longest or at least very long?

The Months Begin with the Full Moon

I understand that 2189 mentions the crescent moon and doesn't mention anything about the start of a month, thus the Dark Moon and Full Moon are the only ones to be considered. But does that mean it's ONLY for the Pilgrimage and can't be for the beginning of months? Even if you say so, how does the Full Moon relate in any way to 3639 that references the "old palm sheath"? To me, the sheath is undeniably referring to a crescent shape, unless there is a translation error. How does the Full Moon ever look like an old palm sheath?

Night of Decree = Month of Ramadan = First of the Restricted Months

I do not see this link at all. The verse used is 92-5. Where indicates that the FIRST of the 4 Restricted Months is where the "special" Pilgrimage happens? Where makes certain this "special" Pilgrimage is even Ramadan besides the fact it's one of the most important months in Islam? And how does this make Ramadan the first month of the year/make it so the year begins with the 4 Restricted Months?

I just feel it's too many leaps for something that should be so clear to us. Perhaps there are translation errors that are confusing me, I'm not sure.

But I hope that someone can be patient enough to help clarify these issues for me.

Thank you for your time.

May peace be with you all.

GODsubmitter

yes.

why no-one has commented on this good post?

good_logic

Peace Ekonoklastes.

When there is uncertainty, there is no clarity.

The fact that no one has come up with " clear starting date", which month/s....etc means they are not 100% certain?

Now I have not got any answers for you. Like you, I have to follow the calender we have now.

However , I believe Jesus may have been born in Autumn? When the " dates ripen" according to Qoran?
1923
The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."

1925-26
"If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.*

"Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence, *; I am not talking today to anyone.' "

Peace.

mirjamnur

May peace be with you all!

Recently I have been trying to study the outline of Ramadan, The Night of Decree, including it's specific timing, etc. I find it quite difficult to believe that these important times of the year rely upon arbitrary, man-made calendars. Allah has a system, and I do believe there is some sort of cosmic calendar in order.

Indeed we find the Quran has many clues regarding the sun and it's positions, as well as the moon and it's phases, etc. and their purposes. Recently I've been reading The Natural Republic by The Monotheist Group (http//www.free-minds.org/sites/default/files/TNR.pdf) that seeks to explain the Islamic calendar (chapter 13). I believe the views are that of brother Layth's as it matches his two articles on this site (http//free-minds.org/calendars & http//free-minds.org/qadr).

There are a few issues that I have with it however, and I'm hoping that anyone who follows this system can please help clarify them for me.

When does the year begin?

TNR says based on 971-5 mentioning the importance of the Night of Decree, it makes it most worthy to use as a marker for the beginning of the year. Is this just a matter of opinion? Where objectively confirms this?

The Spirits and the Angels Come Down

From what I understand, the author is linking the Night of Decree to the conception of Jesus due to the fact that both of these times have the coming down of both Spirit and Angels. Thus, we can use the clues we have to find out when Jesus was conceived to also find the Night of Decree. My only question is, are these the only 2 times this phenomena has happened? Is there anywhere that proves this hasn't happened at other holy events, that may not be during the Winter Solstice?

Night of Decree = Winter Solstice

Isn't this quite the assumption? The only basis here is that Night of Decree is a blessed night, and the Winter Solstice is the longest night, therefore it should be the Night of Decree. I understand it's peculiar that it also lands around the assumed conception of Jesus/Night of Decree, but wouldn't the Quran be a bit more certain about this? Is there anywhere that proves the Night of Decree is the longest or at least very long?

The Months Begin with the Full Moon

I understand that 2189 mentions the crescent moon and doesn't mention anything about the start of a month, thus the Dark Moon and Full Moon are the only ones to be considered. But does that mean it's ONLY for the Pilgrimage and can't be for the beginning of months? Even if you say so, how does the Full Moon relate in any way to 3639 that references the "old palm sheath"? To me, the sheath is undeniably referring to a crescent shape, unless there is a translation error. How does the Full Moon ever look like an old palm sheath?

Night of Decree = Month of Ramadan = First of the Restricted Months

I do not see this link at all. The verse used is 92-5. Where indicates that the FIRST of the 4 Restricted Months is where the "special" Pilgrimage happens? Where makes certain this "special" Pilgrimage is even Ramadan besides the fact it's one of the most important months in Islam? And how does this make Ramadan the first month of the year/make it so the year begins with the 4 Restricted Months?

I just feel it's too many leaps for something that should be so clear to us. Perhaps there are translation errors that are confusing me, I'm not sure.

But I hope that someone can be patient enough to help clarify these issues for me.

Thank you for your time.

May peace be with you all.

Salam brother (i found your nickname very complicated ;D sorry)

you talk in this post on some points that I have made on this topic also.
I have published my thoughts on this in my blog (in German) -if someone would like to read- here the link
http//diebotschaftdeskoran.blogspot.com/2011/12/kalenderordnung-im-islam.html

I find the approach from brother Ayman about the 'hot full moon' much more logical and understandable. Even if there are still things which are not clear, such as the fact to fast for a few days (in contradiction to Allah's statement that men can have sexual intercourse with women during the nights of fasting - how can this be a problem if the fasting lasts only a few days? )
His approach is to read here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0- but i''m sure that you see it.

So i'm still searching - peace

raginggaijin

When does the year begin?

TNR says based on 971-5 mentioning the importance of the Night of Decree, it makes it most worthy to use as a marker for the beginning of the year. Is this just a matter of opinion? Where objectively confirms this?

I could not find confirmation on this, and it seems odd that the year would begin in the 'death' of the year instead of the beginning.

The Spirits and the Angels Come Down

From what I understand, the author is linking the Night of Decree to the conception of Jesus due to the fact that both of these times have the coming down of both Spirit and Angels. Thus, we can use the clues we have to find out when Jesus was conceived to also find the Night of Decree. My only question is, are these the only 2 times this phenomena has happened? Is there anywhere that proves this hasn't happened at other holy events, that may not be during the Winter Solstice?

Actually, I cannot find anywhere in the Quran where it states that is the only time Allah sends the controls in the spirit of His command.

Night of Decree = Winter Solstice

Isn't this quite the assumption?

I believe it is, yes.

The Months Begin with the Full Moon

I understand that 2189 mentions the crescent moon and doesn't mention anything about the start of a month, thus the Dark Moon and Full Moon are the only ones to be considered. But does that mean it's ONLY for the Pilgrimage and can't be for the beginning of months? Even if you say so, how does the Full Moon relate in any way to 3639 that references the "old palm sheath"? To me, the sheath is undeniably referring to a crescent shape, unless there is a translation error. How does the Full Moon ever look like an old palm sheath?

I disagree that it means 'crescents'. The root word is used in (ohilla); used to describe food that is dedicated/consecrated to another god.

Night of Decree = Month of Ramadan = First of the Restricted Months

I do not see this link at all. The verse used is 92-5. Where indicates that the FIRST of the 4 Restricted Months is where the "special" Pilgrimage happens? Where makes certain this "special" Pilgrimage is even Ramadan besides the fact it's one of the most important months in Islam? And how does this make Ramadan the first month of the year/make it so the year begins with the 4 Restricted Months?

I just feel it's too many leaps for something that should be so clear to us. Perhaps there are translation errors that are confusing me, I'm not sure.

I agree with your estimation.

It was in examining the teachings within 'The Natural Republic' that led me to different theories based on studying the Quran. Theories I am studying now and putting to the test.

I'll post what I've found below.

raginggaijin

Sirius sets every May; the specific date varies depending on the location, but it's always been in May. Has since -600 BCE. It sets here in California on May 23, but in Egypt - of which Midian is a part of it - it sets on May 28th.

It was when Sirius set that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11

531 And the star when it has fallen
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended,
537 and it is in the horizon the highest.
538 Then presented, so descended,
539 so was a length of two bows or base.
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.

Sirius sets May 28th
Sirius rises August 6th

Lord of Sirius Surah 5349
The bright star is the title member of the Sirius stellar moving group (also known as the Sirius Super Cluster or Ursa Major star stream)

Star of piercing brightness Surah 861-4
861 And the sky and the road (wal-riqi);
862 and what will make you know what the road is
863 the star of the piercing.
864 That every soul has over it a guardian.

891 And the dawn,
892 and the ten nights,
893 and the even, and the odd,
894 and the night when it runs.
895 Is in that an oath for those restricted.
896 Did not you see how dealt your Lord with Aad -
897 Iram, possessors of the pillars* -
898 which not had been created like them in the lands.
899 And Thamud those who carved out of the rocks in the valley.
8910 And Pharaoh, possessor of the stakes.
8911 Those who transgressed in the lands
8912 then multiplied in it of the corruption.
8913 So poured upon them your Lord?s scourge of punishment.
8914 Surely, your Lord is Sentinel.
*Baalbek of Aram

The helical rising of a star is its first appearance in the Eastern sky at dawn. Over a sidereal year, the star will rise earlier and earlier until it sets at dawn, followed a period of 70 days when it is no longer visible by dawn, before the cycle begins again.

I believe 'May', the month when Sirius' helical setting occurs, is the month of Ramadan.

There are only two seasons named in the Quran Winter and Summer. In that order. Surah 1062

The ancient Egyptian calendar had 3 seasons Spring, Winter, and Summer. In that order.
Spring season starts the new year with the helical rising of Sirius, and lasts 4 months August - November.
Winter season is the growing season December - March.
Summer season is the harvest season Apr-Jul

http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalistic_month

The months are well-known, just like the days. During the time of revelation, when the Byzantine and Persian empires were dominant, we had the Julian, Hebrew/Arabic, Egyptian, and Persian calendars.
These calendars were either solar or lunar/solar, but all had 365 days in them.

'Postponement' (al-nasiu) Surah 937

The Egyptian calendar has an additional 5 days called the small (nasie) month, which wasn't a month but 5 days of festivities before the New Year, when Sirius' helical rising occurred and the Nile river flooded Egypt.

Moses was raised in Egypt.

"'Your tryst shall be upon the days of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati).' said Moses. 'Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059

http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15475319/#.UNV6o6ywWSo

From the link"Some of the inscriptions that were uncovered at the temple link the drunkenness festival with "traveling through the marshes," which Bryan said was an ancient Egyptian euphemism for having sex. The sexual connection is reinforced by graffiti depicting men and women in positions that might draw some tut-tutting today."

The Hebrew calendar added an extra month to make their lunar calendar fit.

The days and months were numbered, and we can see proof of this still with our current solar calendar with names like September (7), October (, November (9), and December (10). (There is a reason for the shift, but that's another discussion.)

The seventh (sabAAa) day is the Sabbath (l-sabti), which has always been the day of congregation. This is the only day named in the Quran. Surah 265, 447, 4154, 7163, 16124

Allah does not change, nor does He change His course (sunnati Allahi) Surah 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4

I run into an issue in translating The word ?year? is written two different ways in the Quran ?Sanat? (&#1577 and ??Aam? (&#1605.

Season (sanatin) Surah 296, 526, 2247, 2914, 325, 4615, 704
Seasons (sinna) Surah 7130, 105, 1242, 1247, 1712, 1811, 1825, 23112, 2618, 26205, 304

Moon stages Surah 3639
Consecrated (ohilla) Surah 2173, 53, 6145, 16115
The phases (crescents) Surah 2189

Full moon Surah 8416-20
"No! I swear by the twilight, and the night and what it envelops, and the moon when it is at the full, you shall surely ride stage after stage." Surah 8416-20

Add in the dual use of seasons and it could be showing an entire year of seasons or one singular season.

2189 They ask you about the phases. Say, ?They are His appointments for the men and the Pilgrimage.? And it is not the righteousness in that you approach the houses from their backs, but the righteousness is who bewares. And approach the houses from their entrances and beware The God so that you may succeed.

The seasons are known based on the positions and displays of the sun and the moon.
The sun Vernal Equinox, Summer Solstice, Autumnal Equinox, Winter Solstice.
The moon Blue Moon, Harvest Moon, Wet and Dry Moon, Absent New/Full Moons, Perigee and Apogee Moons.

A Wet Moon is when the horns of the Crescent Moon point up at an angle, away from the horizon. It appears this way during the Summertime in the Northern Hemisphere.
A Dry Moon is when the horns of the Crescent Moon point to the side.
It appears this way during the Wintertime in the Northern Hemisphere.

Pic http//www.wtv-zone.com/rosebuds/potpourri/pics/crescent-moon-path.gif

1712 And We made the night and the day two signs. Then we eliminate the sign of the night, and We made the sign of the day visible, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know number of the seasons (l-sinna), and the measure. And every thing We have detailed explanation.

105 He is the One who made the sun a light and the moon shining and determined for it stages, that you may know number of the seasons (l-sinna) and the measure. Not created The God that except in truth. He explains the signs to knowing people.

Lightning flash (sana) Surah 2443

"And they tarried in the Cave three hundred years, and to that they added nine more." Surah 1825

The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years. Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.

Joseph was raised in Egypt, prior to Moses being born. Peace be upon them.

1247 He said, ?You will sow seven (sabAAa) seasons (sineena), as usual, and what you harvest so leave it in its ears except a little from which you eat.
1248 Then comes from after that seven severe; consume what you advanced for them, except a little of what you store. Then comes from after that a year (AAamun); in it will be given rain of the men, and in it will pour.

Three (3) recitals = 3 months Surah 2228
Menstruation lasts approximately 28 days. In a large study of more than 30,000 cycles from more than 2300 women showed that the mean cycle length was 29.1 with a standard deviation of 7.5 days and a 95% prediction interval of between 15 and 45 days.

There are 12 months in a year Surah 936

Hajj is annual. Surah 2196-197
You can't do Hajj twice a year.
8 pilgrimages (hijajin) = 8 years Surah 2827

Bearing and weaning is 30 months (thalathoona shahran) Surah 4615
Weaning is 2 years (AAamayni) Surah 3114
A child starts using the umbilical cord after 12-13 weeks from fertilization. 1 year (amin) is 12 months.**
Middle age is 40 seasons (arbaAAeena sanatan) Surah 4615
**I believe, based on the Quran, that life begins at conception. I in no way, shape, or form am advocating that abortion is allowed because the child growing in the womb is not receiving nutrition from the mother in the first trimester.

Civil year (amin) Surah 2259, 928, 937, 9126, 1249, 2914, 3114

Based off of what I understand on studying the Quran, the year is a solar year, with the sun and moon used to determine what season it is and when events like Hajj are to take place.
Using the rising and setting of Sirius, I believe the month to fast in is what my nation calls 'May'. The holy months kept sacred by our Creator are consecutive, and do not fall on the months when people were in caravan for trade; Winter and Summer. So the 4 months would occur in Spring August - November.

Here's a cached display of the settings and rising of Sirius
http//webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cachev3uqhZ5AMrsJwww2.islandnet.com/~pjamesclark/heliacal_risings_and_settings_of.htm+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Taken from the original table in Italian
http//www.cieloeterra.it/strumenti/sorgeresirio.html

It's been occurring since 800 BCE in southern parts of the world, as since 0 BCE in the Roman capital. The rising occurs at different times in different latitudes, but the setting is always in May. As well, Sirius is always at its apex in the sky on December 31st at midnite.

http//wilderness-ventures-egypt.com/2011/06/sirius-rising-and-the-ancient-egyptian-calendar/

Can the Islamists have gotten it totally wrong?
"The bigger and older the trick, the easier it is to pull. He thinks it can?t be that old or big for so many people to have fallen for it. Eventually, when the conman is questioned or challenged, it means the victim?s investment, and thus his intelligence is questioned. No one can accept that. Even to themselves. The victim will eventually hang himself. You just help him along."

"Say 'Had God willed I would not have recited it to you, neither would He have taught you it; I abode among you a lifetime before it -- will you not understand?'" Surah 1016

Remember the counting test given in Surah 18?

"When We raised them up that We might know which of the two parties was best able to compute the time for which they remained." Surah 1812

Allah gives the count
"And they tarried in the Cave three hundred seasons (sineena), and to that they added nine more." Surah 1825

This isn't months (shahr) but (sineena). Commonly translated 'years', let's put in 'seasons' - being the lunar cycle that provide moons to determine the seasons along with the solar cycle - and see if it makes sense.

309 lunations (going from new moon to new moon) = 25 years.

The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years.
Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.

Based on this count, the companions of the Cave were asleep for 25 years, not 300+ years.

"Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand seasons (sanatin), all but fifty years (AAaman); so the Flood seized them, while they were evildoers." Surah 2914

This is a math equation. (In school we called these story problems.)
1000 seasons (sanatin) - 50 years (amin) = Noah's time with his people.

1000 seasons (sanatin) = x years (amin).

If 309 lunations (sanatin) = 25 years then...
...1 lunation (sanatin) = .08 years (amin).
1000 seasons (sanatin) x .08 years (amin) = 80 years (amin).

Noah was alive approximately 80 years, and was with his people for 30 years.

Does the Quran uphold this count as Truth? Does it make sense and uphold the Truth in the creation of Allah?
Can we find other references to the lifespan of man like middle age?

"We have charged man, that he be kind to his parents; his mother bore him painfully, and painfully she gave birth to him; his bearing and his weaning are thirty months. Until, when he is fully grown, and reaches forty years, he says, 'O my Lord, dispose me that I may be thankful for Thy blessing wherewith Thou hast blessed me and my father and mother, and that I may do righteousness well-pleasing to Thee; and make me righteous also in my seed. Behold, I repent to Thee, and am among those that surrender.'" Surah 4615

Do a Google search on 1000 months and see what others say.
Do a count of how long 1000 months are in years.

Can it be proven wrong using ayats from the Quran?

All are points to consider.

May Allah increase the believers in knowledge.

Peace and blessings.

GODsubmitter

So much for a clear and detailed book! rotfl

Ahhhh hmm

Perhaps we are not to look for concrete "scientific" data in the Qur'an, but just for metaphoric and moral ones instead?
Same as with the Torah, which WAS a statute book with laws for creating a Jewish State, with Moses trying to educate and civilize a freed mob of Egyptian slaves? Then, after few centuries, and since the demolition of that state, those laws and regulations are not valid any more, and are not binding for us at all?
In that sense "Natural Republic" is an attempt to create a statute for a Muslim State... But, is it practical to try to create a state based on a document circa 1400 years old?
Obviously, there must have been similar problems even back then, that's why they created Haddits and Sharia, like Jews creating the Talmud in a desperate attempt to bring back the "golden age" of prophetic "state leaders"...

Or, the Qur'an can only be relevant for a few moral and spiritual teachings, with a few metaphorical stories that can be relevant to us nowadays? ???

As I read yesterday someone putting it quite nicely "Things start in mysticism and they end in politics"...

raginggaijin

So much for a clear and detailed book! rotfl

Or, it is supposed to tell us just some moral and spiritual things? With a few metaphorical stories that can be relevant to us nowadays? ???

Why can't the teachings within the Book be used within the culture of the people who read it, instead of striving to uphold another culture's traditions?

Just based on my own understanding as shown above, there is no need for a different calendar; what my nation - the United States of America - is using fits within the teachings of the Quran.

Something else to ponder.

Peace.

GODsubmitter

And, with practical question, is the month of Ramadan changing and circulating every year, and do one fasts ten days or the whole month?

And, where are the CLEAR proofs for that in the Reading (the Qur'an)?

Ah, not to mention that it would be also nice to calculate when is the "special night" worth thousand nights...

Now, imagine someone who wants to embrace Islam, without any prejudices, not knowing Arabic, reading the translations and wanting to connect to God without Mullahs and Imams and no Haddits of course... confused

mmkhan

However , I believe Jesus may have been born in Autumn? When the " dates ripen" according to Qoran?
1923
The birth process came to her by the trunk of a palm tree. She said, "(I am so ashamed I wish I were dead before this happened, and completely forgotten."

1925-26
"If you shake the trunk of this palm tree, it will drop ripe dates for you.*

"Eat and drink, and be happy. When you see anyone, say, `I have made a vow of silence, *; I am not talking today to anyone.' "

Peace.

Peace Good Logic,

Red Do you really think it is possible for a pregnant woman to shake the trunk of a date palm tree?

Blue Is it referring to dates?

I don't think so. I think it is referring to "Banana tree" which also comes under palm trees. Based on this, complete concept will change.

May Allah increase our knowledge and guide us to His path pr
mmKhan

good_logic

Peace mmkhan.

You " think" or you are sure it is banana tree?

If you are sure with " evidence", I will stand corrected?

Thank you.

Peace.

simonejamilla

Peace be with you all.

And, with practical question, is the month of Ramadan changing and circulating every year, and do one fasts ten days or the whole month?

And, where are the CLEAR proofs for that in the Reading (the Qur'an)?

Ah, not to mention that it would be also nice to calculate when is the "special night" worth thousand nights...

Now, imagine someone who wants to embrace Islam, without any prejudices, not knowing Arabic, reading the translations and wanting to connect to God without Mullahs and Imams and no Haddits of course... confused

These are questions I have as well.

If 309 lunations (sanatin) = 25 years then...
...1 lunation (sanatin) = .08 years (amin).
1000 seasons (sanatin) x .08 years (amin) = 80 years (amin).

So 1 lunation would equal 9 months? I don't understand? confused

GODsubmitter

They ALL (&we all) have those questions unanswered @Scrappy-doo!

And, even in this thread, one can see how people AVOID answering directly, directing attention to bananas instead...

simonejamilla

They ALL (&we all) have those questions unanswered @Scrappy-doo!

And, even in this thread, one can see how people AVOID answering directly, directing attention to bananas instead...

LOL! I agree. rotfl

raginggaijin

So 1 lunation would equal 9 months? I don't understand? confused

The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years.
Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.

Divide the civil year by the number of lunations to come up with the equation.
The number provided is a percentage.
1 lunation = .08 of a civil year x 12 months = .96 of a civil year.
12 lunations is 96% of a civil year.

Peace.

mmkhan

Peace mmkhan.

You " think" or you are sure it is banana tree?

If you are sure with " evidence", I will stand corrected?

Thank you.

Peace.

Peace brother,

I "think" it is banana tree, because there is NO evidence for dates tree either. And as I mentioned earlier, it is not possible to shake the trunk of dates tree. So, I think it is referring to banana tree because it is easy to shake its trunk and ripe bananas can fall easily.

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

good_logic

Peace mmkhan.

I take it we agree ,then.

I shall take dates and you take bananas, for now.

Thank you.

Peace.

raginggaijin

Peace brother,

I "think" it is banana tree, because there is NO evidence for dates tree either. And as I mentioned earlier, it is not possible to shake the trunk of dates tree. So, I think it is referring to banana tree because it is easy to shake its trunk and ripe bananas can fall easily.

May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan

http//www.dateland.com/Tutorial.html

"Around the beginning of August, the Medjool Dates are covered with a white muslin bag to protect the dates from birds and insects. The bags also help to catch any dates that ripen prior to the beginning of the date harvest."

I'm not saying they are dates, mind you. They could be figs.
What I am saying is this If Allah told me to shake a tree and provision would drop, when I shook the tree, provision would drop.

Allah is Provider.

Peace.

noshirk

The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years.
Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.

Divide the civil year by the number of lunations to come up with the equation.
The number provided is a percentage.
1 lunation = .08 of a civil year x 12 months = .96 of a civil year.
12 lunations is 96% of a civil year.

Peace.

Salaam raginggaijin
i never thought that sana could be a lunation.
it has sense for me.
I have already thinked that sana refers to unit of count. For example sana means tooth and asnan (teeth) mean aligned range of tooth.
I have to review my quran for this understanding. However, it seems to me more logical to believe that noah lived 80 years and not 950.

thank you for the idea
Peace

raginggaijin

Salaam raginggaijin
i never thought that sana could be a lunation.
it has sense for me.
I have already thinked that sana refers to unit of count. For example sana means tooth and asnan (teeth) mean aligned range of tooth.
I have to review my quran for this understanding. However, it seems to me more logical to believe that noah lived 80 years and not 950.

thank you for the idea
Peace

Peace be with you,

Thank Allah. He is Bestower of knowledge. )

Here's an addendum after speaking with another believer.

It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11

531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.

Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11th

Month of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5

Based off of this information
The Dog Days are 40 days long, beginning with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? starting August 2nd ? begin the Holy Months.
Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, immediately following Ramadan, starting August 2nd and ending August 11th.

I appreciate you looking into this.

Peace and blessings.