Winter Ramadan Investigation (as outlined by The Natural Republic)
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Peace be with you,
Thank Allah. He is Bestower of knowledge. )
Here's an addendum after speaking with another believer.
It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11
531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11thMonth of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5Based off of this information
The Dog Days are 40 days long, beginning with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd.
The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? starting August 2nd ? begin the Holy Months.
Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, immediately following Ramadan, starting August 2nd and ending August 11th.I appreciate you looking into this.
Peace and blessings.
salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.Peace
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Salam Noshirk
salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0i read this post and its amazing... possible
Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.i am not agree. Saum means abstinence. Look at Sura mujadila 58 , i believe the Saum in this described matter means to not have sex with your wife (to make 'exercise' for the stupid oath and to feel by it and to do not again) In Sura marjam we found another abstincence- in fact Saum has many faces. But in ramadan the Saum is clear linked with food (eat and drink until the distinction between the black thread and the white can be seen
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.
agree but also the hajj is known before and i read , that there is a feast in the end - when the hajjis they slaughter the 'victims', but God states clear, that this should not be a VICTIM but more a gift /sadaqa for the poor and a meal for us.Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
i'am until now not sure, but it seems to be logic.
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).
i think they begin as always before with the new moon - i'm not sure for the exact beginning. i think shahr means lunation (There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)thank you for the link
For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.i'am agree with you handshake
Peace
peace peace
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salaam raginggaijin
I am convinced that beginning of sourate 53 is related to the revelation (as quite all beginning of sourates).
However i doubt that verses you quoted are speaking about solistice,sirius and dog days.Many things happened in the sky the night Quran was revealed.
Please see my post here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604822.0Concerning Hajj and fasting and Omra my conclusions are these
Saoum is explained to us by Issa speaking to his mother (19-26). Eat and drink, don't speak to human and dedicate time to God and God Only.
In arabic Hajj means argument/proof. Hajj is kind of festival where Hojjajs (who make Hajj) presents Hojajs (arguments) to people searching for truth.
So the guy who make Hajj is someone who knows Quran and words of God very good.
Omra means to fill. For example Imara means a building. The one who make Omra is the truth seeker who go to Hajj to meet Hojjajs. Making Omra don't dispense to make Saoum, Omra is not Hajj and who seeks for the truth is not like who found it and try to transmit it.Duration of Saoum is 10 days (i agree with that).
Hajj and saoum begins with the first full moon after automn equinoxe or first autum rains after summer (arabic meaning of word ramadhan).There is absolutely no reason to think that the four Ashoor of Hajj are consecutives.
Quran is clearly pointing to jewish calendar and to the nasiya (http//www.free-minds.org/Old/articles/science/timing.htm)For me, as for my french friend Sheikh dukhani, the 3 others periods of Hajj are in torah and in the true injeej (not gospel for me).
We can search for the 3 others Hajj everywhere else and we will never find them. We have also to hold what remained from true torah and true Injeej to hold completely our religion.Peace
I am bolding the parts to show a man who I have spoken to evidence of my claims concerning this site and those who frequent here.
I am not a Jew nor am I a Christian; I submit my will to Allah and I follow the teachings revealed to Ahmad; the faith of Abraham. So while I understand why people strive to uphold teachings from previous Books, I do not agree with it when Surah 548-50 makes it clear not to follow the caprices of the families of the Book.
As well, while you point to the star in Surah 53, the month timing has been unchanged since 800 BCE, which invalidates the Autumn dating.
Also, the above was an addendum. This is what precededSirius sets every May; the specific date varies depending on the location, but it's always been in May. Has since -600 BCE. It sets here in California on May 23, but in Egypt - of which Midian is a part of it - it sets on May 28th.
It was during the time when Sirius set and before it rose that Allah revealed the Quran to Ahmad, peace be with him. Surah 531-11
531 And the star when it has fallen (Sirius sets)
532 strays not your companion and errs not,
533 and not he speaks out of the inclination;
534 that it is except a revelation revealed,
535 taught him of the Severe Strength.
536 Possessor of time, so ascended, (sun used to measure time)
537 and it is in the horizon the highest. (Summer solstice)
538 Then presented, so descended, (after Summer solstice)
539 so was a length of two bows or base. (Sun-Sirius conjunction as sun lowers to horizon)
5310 So He revealed to His servant what He revealed.
5311 Not lied the heart what it saw.Sirius sets May 28th
Dog days start July 3rd
Sirius rises August 6th
Dog days end August 11thThe common noun "ramadhan" means "scorching heat". The only derivative from "R-M-Dh" in the great reading is the word "ramadhan", which occurs only once. Hence, there is no way to compare directly the meaning with how it is used in other verses.
Lord of Sirius Surah 5349
The bright star is the title member of the Sirius stellar moving group (also known as the Sirius Super Cluster or Ursa Major star stream)Star of piercing brightness Surah 861-4
861 And the sky and the road (wal-riqi);
862 and what will make you know what the road is
863 the star of the piercing.
864 That every soul has over it a guardian.891 And the dawn,
892 and the ten nights,
893 and the even, and the odd,
894 and the night when it runs.
895 Is in that an oath for those restricted.
896 Did not you see how dealt your Lord with Aad -
897 Iram, possessors of the pillars* -
898 which not had been created like them in the lands.
899 And Thamud those who carved out of the rocks in the valley.
8910 And Pharaoh, possessor of the stakes.
8911 Those who transgressed in the lands
8912 then multiplied in it of the corruption.
8913 So poured upon them your Lord?s scourge of punishment.
8914 Surely, your Lord is Sentinel.
*Baalbek of AramThe helical rising of a star is its first appearance in the Eastern sky at dawn. Over a sidereal year, the star will rise earlier and earlier until it sets at dawn, followed a period of 70 days when it is no longer visible by dawn, before the cycle begins again.
There are only two seasons named in the Quran Winter and Summer. In that order. Surah 1062
The ancient Egyptian calendar had 3 seasons Spring, Winter, and Summer. In that order.
Spring season starts the new year with the helical rising of Sirius, and lasts 4 months August - November.
Winter season is the growing season December - March.
Summer season is the harvest season Apr-Julhttp//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anomalistic_month
The months are well-known, just like the days. During the time of revelation, when the Byzantine and Persian empires were dominant, we had the Julian, Hebrew/Arabic, Egyptian, and Persian calendars.
These calendars were either solar or lunar/solar, but all had 365 days in them.Postponement (al-nasiu) Surah 937
The Egyptian calendar has an additional 5 days called the small (nasie) month, which wasn't a month but 5 days of festivities before the New Year, when Sirius' helical rising occurred and the Nile river flooded Egypt.
"'Your tryst shall be upon the days of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati).' said Moses. 'Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059
http//www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15475319/#.UNV6o6ywWSo
From the link ?Some of the inscriptions that were uncovered at the temple link the drunkenness festival with "traveling through the marshes," which Bryan said was an ancient Egyptian euphemism for having sex. The sexual connection is reinforced by graffiti depicting men and women in positions that might draw some tut-tutting today."
The Hebrew calendar added an extra month to make their lunar calendar fit.
The days and months were numbered, and we can see proof of this still with our current solar calendar with names like September (7), October (, November (9), and December (10). (There is a reason for the shift, but that's another discussion.)
The Sabbath (l-sabti) has been a day of congregation. This is the only day named in the Quran. Surah 265, 447, 4154, 7163, 16124
Allah does not change, nor does He change His course (sunnati Allahi) Surah 624, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4
Month of Ramadan is when Quran revealed Surah 2185
If you cannot participate in Hajj, you are to fast for 10 days complete Surah 2196
Moses appointed 30 days, plus 10 to make it complete Surah 7142
Moses contracted for 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods ? Hajj occurred during the time of Moses Surah 2827
4 months start Holy months Surah 92-5Based off of this information, I believe Ramadan occurs in July with the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius on July 3rd. The 30 days of the month of Ramadan we fast therein, and the following months ? in August ? starts the Holy Months. Hajj occurs immediately after Ramadan during the last 10 days of the Dog Days, which occurs 10 days immediately following Ramadan.
Look to Surah 92-5 to note the period of truce is equal to the period of sacred months; when the holy months are over, so too is the truce.
I also disagree with your count and your opinion on what constitutes Hajj. What we are to do is detailed in Surah 2196-197.
"...whoso undertakes the duty of Pilgrimage in them shall not go in to his womenfolk nor indulge in ungodliness and disputing (jidla) in the Pilgrimage." Surah 2197 (excerpt)
If (-aja) means 'arguing' as per (jjna) in Surah 4216, then there is a contradiction in the Quran as per Surah 2197.
The Quran contains no contradictions.If we cannot offer a sacrifice to Allah for Hajj ? which we use to feed the poor and the well fed - we are to fast for 10 days Surah 2196
Moses was appointed 30 nights with Allah and completed with 10 nights for 40 nights total Surah 251, 7142
?And We appointed with Moses thirty (thalthna) nights (laylatan) and We completed (wa-atmamnhā them with ten, so the appointed time of his Lord was forty nights; and Moses said to his brother Aaron, 'Be my successor among my people, and put things right, and do not follow the way of the workers of corruption.'? Surah 7142Allah is Guide. I submit my will to Him and Him alone.
The Quran will be able to guide a person - such as myself - who has only the Quran as a guide. I am not a Jew nor am I a son of Israel; the Torah and Gospel were not sent to my nation. I believe in them, but I do not follow them. I follow only the Quran.The events discussed, the setting and rising of Sirius, the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius, along with the Dog Days of Summer, can be evidenced and validated by anyone at anytime without need of special equipment; just our eyes.
The fasting is in the month of Ramadan, which is more than 10 nights.
You are welcome to doubt. Such is the nature of seeking Truth.
I too am seeking evidence to support or disprove what I believe, and as proven in this very thread when evidence is brought forth I will amend my beliefs to fall into line.
You are welcome to believe as you wish, though I do not agree with you. )Peace.
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Salaam raginggaijin
Quran is between us.
I am ready to reject my understanding if you show me quranic evidence.
Your mention of 548 is not clear for me. Do you reject all what is in Toraj and Injeej ? Rejecting torah is same as rejecting Desires of Jews ?
548 And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, authenticating what is between your hands of the Book and superseding it. So judge between them by what God has sent down, and do not follow their desires from what has come to you of the truth. ......What God meant by "what was between your hands ?".
Concerning the 4 month, i don't understand what you are thinking
Let me ask some questions for eventual further discussion.
How many periods of Hajj there is for you ? 4 periods of one Month are not same as one period of 4 months.
When are they ?
How many times in a life have we to make Hojj (whatever it is) ?I would be grateful if you use no Hadith and no "our ancients said".
Only Words of God in our discussion.
2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
919 Have you made the watering of the HAJJ and the IMARA of the MASJID HARAM the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people.
I replaced in traduction contested words by their original word.
At first sight, HAJJ, OMRA and SAoum are related. IAATAMARA is same Root than OMRA and there is something called IAATAMA to HAJJ wich seems to indicate, at least, that they are occuring same time.
We See also that Who make OMRA have to make something in addition relative to who make Hajj.
We see also that who make Omra has to give "offering" and if he cannot, he have to to 10 days of saoum.
We see also that those whose family in not near Masjid Haram can delay 7 of the 10 days.From 9-19; we see that who Make Imara is not same level for God than who strives ....
It is logical from context of 9-19 to suppose that who strives.... is the Hajj. However you can reject it and suppose that who make Hajj is not mentionned (forgetten) in 9-19.
However, it is difficult to contest that Who make Omra is quite same level than who is delevring drink to the Hajj.Now, why who make only omra, and cannot offer something (probably because he is poor) have to make SIYYAM. Is it to remember that they are poor ? That is no sense and then Siyyam has no link to eat and drink.
While who made Omra are doing Siyyam, what are supposed to do Muslims who stayed at home ? Why Who make Omra has to make something more ?
Why God is insisting on fact that 3+7 complete the 10 days ?
Why God use for Hajj a word that means argue/argument ?
Why God use for Omra a word that means to fill/charge a place (with his body) ?Based quite only these two verses, i can deduce
saoum in 10 days.
Hajj is debator who argue in name of God.
Who make Omra is there to ask questions and listen. He is not dispensed from Siyyam.
Who make neither Hajj neither Omra has to make classical SiyyamNow if saoum is 10 days then chahr ramadan is not a 30 day period.
Depending on your response on the 4 months, we will try to see what all this people are supposed to do during the "Hajj periods".
Hope, if there is further discussion, you will not repeat the classical claim "i tell you the truth and you are free to follow your own wishes".
This claim is the claim of who pretend to be my Rabb.Peace
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Salam
sorry, if i interrupt the discussion, but there are many points not clear for me.I am bolding the parts to show a man who I have spoken to evidence of my claims concerning this site and those who frequent here.
I am not a Jew nor am I a Christian; I submit my will to Allah and I follow the teachings revealed to Ahmad; the faith of Abraham. So while I understand why people strive to uphold teachings from previous Books, I do not agree with it when Surah 548-50 makes it clear not to follow the caprices of the families of the Book.
As well, while you point to the star in Surah 53, the month timing has been unchanged since 800 BCE, which invalidates the Autumn dating.
Also, the above was an addendum. This is what precededLook to Surah 92-5 to note the period of truce is equal to the period of sacred months; when the holy months are over, so too is the truce.
in the Torah we found more then one hajj and different sacred month- so as in the 'sunna' - but this ayas point to the fact, that this is something from what it was changed.
I also disagree with your count and your opinion on what constitutes Hajj. What we are to do is detailed in Surah 2196-197."...whoso undertakes the duty of Pilgrimage in them shall not go in to his womenfolk nor indulge in ungodliness and disputing (jidla) in the Pilgrimage." Surah 2197 (excerpt)
If (-aja) means 'arguing' as per (jjna) in Surah 4216, then there is a contradiction in the Quran as per Surah 2197.
The Quran contains no contradictions.
yes , this is right, i overlook this before. thank you
If we cannot offer a sacrifice to Allah for Hajj ? which we use to feed the poor and the well fed - we are to fast for 10 days Surah 2196
i think the word sacrifice is false- God he don't like a sacrifice (as made before) the best 'sacrifice' is to help others (sadaqa) or to make 'selfsacrifice' (saum). But i'm not sure if this HADY can point to the 'zakat' (the first fruits or a part from the crops) and if this is not possible we should saum.
Moses was appointed 30 nights with Allah and completed with 10 nights for 40 nights total Surah 251, 7142
?And We appointed with Moses thirty (thalthna) nights (laylatan) and We completed (wa-atmamnhā them with ten, so the appointed time of his Lord was forty nights; and Moses said to his brother Aaron, 'Be my successor among my people, and put things right, and do not follow the way of the workers of corruption.'? Surah 7142
his is a good point and much times overlooked. i read here once an article from brother alkitab- who states the same fact and it seems correct for AND DO NOT FOLLOW THE WAY OF THE WORKERS OF CORRUPTION.Allah is Guide. I submit my will to Him and Him alone.
The Quran will be able to guide a person - such as myself - who has only the Quran as a guide. I am not a Jew nor am I a son of Israel; the Torah and Gospel were not sent to my nation. I believe in them, but I do not follow them. I follow only the Quran.
But the Quran never states, that Islam is a new 'religion'- the Quran confirmed and partly corrected the previous scriptures in order to distinguish falsehood from the rightThe events discussed, the setting and rising of Sirius, the conjunction of the Sun and Sirius, along with the Dog Days of Summer, can be evidenced and validated by anyone at anytime without need of special equipment; just our eyes.
yes and no- if you translate the shahr ramadan with hot/sorched/ lunation (the lunation before the hajj saison, which begin with the Hilal (the harvest?) this will be also much easy for all.The fasting is in the month of Ramadan, which is more than 10 nights.
i think now, that ramadan is fard. and the fasting of the 10 days hajj is not fard.You are welcome to doubt. Such is the nature of seeking Truth.
I too am seeking evidence to support or disprove what I believe, and as proven in this very thread when evidence is brought forth I will amend my beliefs to fall into line.
You are welcome to believe as you wish, though I do not agree with you. )Peace.
Salam
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2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
Ouos!
forget to mention another remark for what is bold.
it is clealy said that who cannot make Hajj or OMRA have to make SIYYAM or charity or nisk depending on what his heath/illness status.
So Hajj is the same periode that period Saoum for other people.Note also that Siyyam is not discarded totally by illness. That remark is difficult to make fit by siyyam of drink and eat theory. Note also how affliction of head is particularly enhanced and related to Hajj and Omra. That is easy to make fit by debate/listening/asking about word of God theory.
Peace
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Salaam raginggaijin
Quran is between us.
I am ready to reject my understanding if you show me quranic evidence.
Your mention of 548 is not clear for me. Do you reject all what is in Toraj and Injeej ? Rejecting torah is same as rejecting Desires of Jews ?
I do not follow the Torah or Injeel. I follow the Quran. Period. That's it.
"And We have sent down to thee the Book with the truth, confirming the Book that was before it, and assuring (muhayminan) it. So judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, to forsake the truth that has come to thee. To every one of you We have appointed a right way and an open road. If God had willed, He would have made you one nation; but that He may try you in what has come to you. So be you forward in good works; unto God shall you return, all together; and He will tell you of that whereon you were at variance.
And judge between them according to what God has sent down, and do not follow their caprices, and beware of them lest they tempt thee away from any of what God has sent down to thee. But if they turn their backs, know that God desires only to smite them for some sin they have committed; surely, many men are ungodly.
Is it the judgment of pagandom then that they are seeking? Yet who is fairer in judgment than God, for a people having sure faith?" Surah 548-50The Quran guards (muhayminan) the Truth that still remains in the previous Books, but no where in the Quran are we commanded to follow what they had between their hands.
Allah warns you twice in Surah 548-49 not to follow the desires of the families of the Book. He goes into great detail in warning in Surah 549; see the underlined, bolded, and italics.
Yet Allah even states those who return to the desires of the families of the Book, it's because He wants to punish them for something they committed...
...that scares me enough to judge very carefully everything a Christian or Jew says."But if they turn their backs, know that God desires only to smite them for some sin they have committed"...
The Quran will show them what they tried to hide and confirm what is still with them.
"People of the Book, now there has come to you Our Messenger, making clear to you many things you have been concealing of the Book, and effacing many things. There has come to you from God a light, and a Book Manifest." Surah 515
But the best guidance is The God's guidance, the best of it The Quran.
I am not a Jew nor a Christian. I am definitely not a son of Israel. Those Books were sent to them, not me.Book of Moses given to Children of Israel Surah 172, 3223, 4053, 4516
Torah given to Children of Israel Surah 393, 5110, 616We can go around and around about this matter until our appointed term. I will not change in this I follow only the Quran as guidance. End of discussion on that matter.
?We have not given them any Books to study, nor have We sent them before thee any warner.? Surah 3444
What God meant by "what was between your hands ?".
The Koine Greek Septuagint and the 'New Testament'.
The Synod of Hippo in 393 canonized the NT Canon and the Canon of the Septuagint; the Council of Carthage in 397 and 419 repeated it.The Hebrew Torah was destroyed and scattered during the second destruction of the Temple in 70 CE. Look up Masorite Jews and their translating of the Septuagint from Koine Greek to Hebrew starting in the year 700 CE.
Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Farthest Mosque, is named in the Quran. Surah 171
"Glory be to Him, who carried His servant by night from the Sacred Mosque (almasjidi alharami) to the Further Mosque (almasjidi alaqsa) the precincts (hawlahu) of which We have blessed (barakna), that We might show him some of Our signs. He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing." Surah 171
It is the Temple in Jerusalem, destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel. Surah 174-7, 1760, 9107
Concerning the 4 month, i don't understand what you are thinking
Let me ask some questions for eventual further discussion.
How many periods of Hajj there is for you ?
4 periods of one Month are not same as one period of 4 months.
When are they ?
How many times in a life have we to make Hojj (whatever it is) ?I believe Hajj is annual. You do it every year.
Show me in the Quran where it says it is only once and I'll uphold it is a once-in-a-lifetime obligation.
When you cannot, then ask yourself why you believe what you believe if the Quran does not teach it.The Hajj and the sacred months are not the same. Hajj occurs in the periods of sacred months. The Great Pilgrimage starts the holy months. Surah 92-5
"'Journey freely in the land for four months; and know that you cannot frustrate the will of God, and that God degrades the unbelievers.' A proclamation, from God and His Messenger, unto mankind on the day of the Greater Pilgrimage 'God is quit, and His Messenger, of the idolaters. So if you repent, that will be better for you; but if you turn your backs; know that you cannot frustrate the will of God. And give thou good tidings to the unbelievers of a painful chastisement; excepting those of the idolaters with whom you made covenant, then they failed. you naught neither lent support to any man against you. With them fulfil your covenant till their term; surely God loves the godfearing. Then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them, and confine them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent, and perform the prayer, and pay the alms, then let them go their way; God is All-forgiving, All-compassionate." Surah 92-5
Moses' contract of marriage = 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods Surah 2827
I would be grateful if you use no Hadith and no "our ancients said".
Only Words of God in our discussion.I reject hadith. I have not quoted hadith in anything I've shared. Yet understand I hold all who I speak to in the same standards.
So don't bring the Bible. It has been corrupted by the additions of man.
If it contains contradictions or errors, it does not come from Allah. Surah 482, 1965, 2052That criteria alone should be warning enough. Allah does not make mistakes, nor does He forget.
"What, do they not ponder the Quran? If it had been from other than The God surely they would have found in it many a contradiction." Surah 482
I believe in the Torah and Injeel; it was in reading the entire Bible that Allah led me from Trinitarian belief to monotheism. The Truth is still within them, amid the numerous errors, contradictions, and lapses of memory.
But it was in the Quran that He showed me a pure, error-free guidance sent to my nation. A Book that has a description and explanation for everything I need to serve our Creator.Allah even makes it clear they tampered with the previous Books and corrupted it, making it into pages and hiding it.
"They measured not God with His true measure when they said, 'God has not sent down aught on any mortal.' Say 'Who sent down the Book that Moses brought as a light and a guidance to men? YOU PUT IT INTO PARCHMENTS, revealing them, and hiding much; and you were taught that you knew not, you and your fathers.' Say 'God.' Then leave them alone, playing their game of plunging." Surah 691
Altering the word Surah 275, 279, 378, 446, 514-15, 7162
What is the BEST guidance?
"And believe not except to who follows your conduct. Say, ?Surely, the guidance is The God?s guidance. That is given a one like of what was given to you, or contend they with your Lord?? Say, ?Surely, the bounty is in The God?s hands. He gives it to to whom He wills, and The God is Encompassing, Knowing.?" Surah 373
Out of the Torah, the Injeel, and the Quran, which of these three is the BEST guidance?
"And follow best (asana) of what has been sent down to you from your Lord, ere the chastisement comes upon you suddenly while you are unaware." Surah 3955
"That is because those who disbelieve follow falsehood, and those who believe follow the truth from their Lord. Even so God strikes their similitudes for men." Surah 473
2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.
919 Have you made the watering of the HAJJ and the IMARA of the MASJID HARAM the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people.
I replaced in traduction contested words by their original word.
At first sight, HAJJ, OMRA and SAoum are related. IAATAMARA is same Root than OMRA and there is something called IAATAMA to HAJJ wich seems to indicate, at least, that they are occuring same time.
We See also that Who make OMRA have to make something in addition relative to who make Hajj.
We see also that who make Omra has to give "offering" and if he cannot, he have to to 10 days of saoum.
We see also that those whose family in not near Masjid Haram can delay 7 of the 10 days.I have difficulties with your English, so if I misunderstand you I apologize.
As you can see in the translation I give below, (al-um'rata) is 'the habitation'. The use of the root word is found in the Quran to denote a period of lifespan (Surah 1016, 1670, 2144, 225, 2618, 2845, 3511), habitation (Surah 919, 524), construction/repairing (Surah 917-18, 309) and living (Surah 296, 3511, 3537, 366.
People lived in Masjid al-Haram; their homes and families were there and the visitors lived there during their stay.
2196 And fulfill the Pilgrimage and the habitation to The God; and if detained then whatever is easier of the offering. And shave not your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Then whoever is among you is sick or thereby a harm from his head, then a ransom from fasting or charity or sacrifice. Then when you are trusting, then whoever enjoys in the habitation to the Pilgrimage, then whatever is easier of the offering. Then whoever finds not, then a fast of three days in the Pilgrimage and seven when you return. This is ten complete. That is for those whose families are not approaching the Masjid al-Haram. And beware The God and know that The God is severe of the retribution.
2197 The Pilgrimage is of months determined; so whoever ordains therein the Pilgrimage then no copulation and no defiance and no disputing in the Pilgrimage. And what you do from best, The God knows it. And take provision; so surely best of the provision is the guarding. And beware me, O folk of the understanding.From 9-19; we see that who Make Imara is not same level for God than who strives ....
It is logical from context of 9-19 to suppose that who strives.... is the Hajj. However you can reject it and suppose that who make Hajj is not mentionned (forgetten) in 9-19.
However, it is difficult to contest that Who make Omra is quite same level than who is delevring drink to the Hajj.If it's logical it will be supported by evidence. Yet even by your interpretation of (umra) it is not supported by the evidence shown.
You wrote
"919 Have you made the watering of the HAJJ and the IMARA of the MASJID HARAM the same as one who believes in God and the Last Day and he strives in the cause of God? They are not the same with God. And God does not guide the wicked people."What is not the same as belief in God and the Last Day and striving in the cause of God? The water of the Hajj and the 'Imara' of the Masjid al-Haram. They are not exclusive. Both are being 'watered'; the people who are pilgrims and the people who inhabit Masjid al-Haram.
"Do you make (ajaaltum) bowl (siqyata) of the pilgrim (l-ji) and the inhabitant (waimrata) of the Masjid al-Haram (l-masjidi l-armi) like whom (kaman..." (excerpt Surah 919)
The bowl (used also in Surah 1270) is possessed of the person (l-ji). There is not (l-siqyata) as is found in Surah 1270, so to say 'the watering of...' isn't upholding the Arabic revelation. So already an issue arises in interpretation.
Yet these two groups of people - those who assist the pilgrims and those who live in/around Masjid al-Haram are not like those who serve Allah, believing in Him and the Last Day and strive doing His duties that He asks of us (Surah 2177).
Now, why who make only omra, and cannot offer something (probably because he is poor) have to make SIYYAM.
Be careful. What you just did is conjecture - making guesses. Allah tells us who is fasting in the Quran and why to fast in the ayat you posted.
Let's look again at the Surah 2196. This is my translation
2196 And fulfill the Pilgrimage and the habitation to The God; and if detained then whatever is easier of the offering. And shave not your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Then whoever is among you is sick or thereby a harm from his head, then a ransom from fasting or charity or sacrifice. Then when you are trusting, then whoever enjoys in the habitation to the Pilgrimage, then whatever is easier of the offering. Then whoever finds not, then a fast of three days in the Pilgrimage and seven when you return. This is ten complete. That is for those whose families are not approaching the Masjid al-Haram. And beware The God and know that The God is severe of the retribution.
This is your translation
2196 And complete the HAJJ and the OMRA for God. If you are prevented, then simply provide what offering is affordable; and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches its destination. Whoever of you is ill or has an affliction to his head, then he may redeem by SIYYAM or giving a charity or a NISK. If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable; but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.Notice what is bolded? The person who fasts will fast for 3 days during Hajj, then 7 when they return home. Allah even states this is for those whose families are not in/near Masjid al-Haram. Quoting your translation
"...this is for those whose family is not near the MASJID HARAM." (excerpt Surah 2196)
The word you translated as 'near' is (irī in the Arabic revelation.
It is used as approach (hadara) (Surah 2133, 2180, 48, 418, 5106, 2398, 4629), brought (ahdarat) (Surah 4128, 1968, 8114), presented (iran) (Surah 1849), immediate (iratan) (Surah 2282), and present (Surah 7163).In both translations it denotes location.
And using your translation, Allah is quite clear on why a person fasts during Hajj
"but for he who cannot find anything, then he must SAOUM".As the person does not have a family who is 'near' Masjid al-Haram, they must find a sacrifice within the area. If they cannot, then they fast.
Now you wrote "If you are secure, then whoever IAATAMARA to HAJJ, he shall provide what offering is affordable"
You brought words to support your interpretation. Let's bring the words that complete the sentence you brought and see if that's what is in the Arabic revelation.
"Then when (fa-idhā you are 'secure' (amintum) then whoever (faman) enjoys (tamattaa) in the habitation (bil-um'rati) to (ilā the Hajj (l-aji) then what (famā is easier (is'taysara) of (mina) the offering (l-hadyi)" (excerpt Surah 2196
You left out (bil-um'rati) completely. This changes your theory completely, as (l-um'rati) can be enjoyed until the Hajj; those who enjoy in (l-um'rati) are those who live there. Those who do not have family approaching Masjid al-Haram.
Remember provision was brought to Masjid al-Haram. Surah 1437, 2857
"Our Lord, I have made some of my seed to dwell in a valley (biwadin) where is no sown land by Thy Sacred House (baytika almuharrami); Our Lord, let them perform the prayer, and make hearts of men yearn towards them, and provide them with fruits; haply they will be thankful." Surah 1437
"They say, 'Should we follow the guidance with thee, we shall be snatched from our land.' Have We not established for them a sanctuary secure, to which are collected the fruits of everything, as a provision from Us? But most of them know not." Surah 2857
You can't hunt while on Hajj. Surah 595
Is it to remember that they are poor ? That is no sense and then Siyyam has no link to eat and drink.
But it does.
Hajj is a time of provision; the animals sacrificed are to be used to feed the poor and the content."And the beasts of sacrifice -- We have appointed them for you as among God's waymarks; therein is good for you. So mention God's Name over them, standing in ranks then, when their flanks collapse, eat of them and feed the beggar and the suppliant. So We have subjected them to you; haply you will be thankful." Surah 2236
The Kaaba is the place of sacrifice Surah 595-97, 2233
Sacrifice (nusukin) Surah 2196, 6162, 2234If you cannot bring a sacrifice, you fast.
Why would you take part in the provision brought to Masjid al-Haram for the entire time when you are unable to fulfill your obligation?While who made Omra are doing Siyyam, what are supposed to do Muslims who stayed at home ?
You fast for 10 days. Surah 2196
Why Who make Omra has to make something more ?
Your translation isn't complete. Try again.
Why God is insisting on fact that 3+7 complete the 10 days ?
Allah does not change nor does He change His course. Surah 6124, 6115, 1064, 1777, 1827, 3030, 3362, 4815, 4823, 673-4
If He made the previous prophets do this, then all will do it."the wont of those We sent before thee of Our Messengers; thou wilt find no change to Our wont." Surah 1777
Revealed as revealed to other Prophets (pbut) Surah 287, 2253, 26192-194, 4163, 4171, 5110, 1602, 16102, 4143, 4252, 5822
"Naught is said to thee but what already was said to the Messengers before thee. Surely thy Lord is a Lord of forgiveness and of painful retribution." Surah 4143
Did Allah appoint 30 nights and 10 days with Moses? Yes. Surah 7142
If Allah does not change His way, would He not appoint the same to Ahmad? It is evidenced Moses had knowledge of the Hajj (hijajin) before he was given the Book from Allah. Surah 2827
Do we have 30 nights of Ramadan? Yes. Surah 2185
Do we complete with 10 of Hajj? Yes. Surah 2196Why God use for Hajj a word that means argue/argument ?
Does it mean argue or is that the translation given in the translation you uphold?
Are there other meanings it could be when we bring the entire Quran to bear in description?People challenge your opinions in a debate.
People challenge each other in a fight against them.Based on the descriptions given in the entire Quran, what can we see given the examples?
Does not Allah challenge us, telling us to vie with one another in good deeds? Surah 2148, 3133
Is not the Hajj a time to challenge ourselves with actions that take us out of our comfort zone? Surah 397
To travel a long distance or spend a sum we are not accustomed to, showing our gratitude to our Lord? Surah 52, 2232, 2234, 2236, 2267Place the word 'challenge' in every instance of (hajj) and see where that takes you in understanding.
Why God use for Omra a word that means to fill/charge a place (with his body) ?
He doesn't, as shown above. (Unless I'm misunderstanding your English. If so, I apologize.)
Based quite only these two verses, i can deduce
saoum in 10 days.
Hajj is debator who argue in name of God.
Who make Omra is there to ask questions and listen. He is not dispensed from Siyyam.
Who make neither Hajj neither Omra has to make classical SiyyamBased upon your incorrect translation that removes words from the Arabic revelation, no doubt you do believe that...
I don't lift one ayat out and based my entire belief upon it. I bring the entire Quran as a description and explanation.
Now if saoum is 10 days then chahr ramadan is not a 30 day period.
Where does it state Hajj occurs during Ramadan?
Answer It does not. Your argument falls apart when the next ayat - Surah 2197 - is brought to bear showing the plurality of the months2197 The Pilgrimage is of months determined; so whoever ordains therein the Pilgrimage then no copulation and no defiance and no disputing in the Pilgrimage. And what you do from best, The God knows it. And take provision; so surely best of the provision is the guarding. And beware me, O folk of the understanding.
Arabic
The Pilgrimage (al-aju) of months(ashhurun) determined/known (malmtun)...Ramadan is one (1) month. Singular.
The sacred months are four (4) months. Plural.Depending on your response on the 4 months, we will try to see what all this people are supposed to do during the "Hajj periods".
To be blunt I know exactly what to do. The Quran gives clear description of what to do. )
Hope, if there is further discussion, you will not repeat the classical claim "i tell you the truth and you are free to follow your own wishes".
This claim is the claim of who pretend to be my Rabb.I tell you what I believe. What you are to do now is to confirm the Truth.
Trust those who seek the Truth. Doubt those who say they found it.I will point out early in this conversation in this thread, I posted my discussion notes and asked others to confirm it or disprove it. If I was 'telling you the truth', I wouldn't be asking for confirmation or for others to look into it.
I will also note that between you and I, I do not cover up the Truth by hiding words from the Arabic revelation. /
I will leave that between you and Him to discuss.I truly do not care what you do or what you believe. I won't be asked what you do or did. I am only responsible for myself.
I thank Allah for providing time to go over His signs again. It is a good exercise, and one that helps me to ensure I am following only what He revealed.
I love Allah. )
Power is due to Him alone.I look forward to any other discussions brought by those who are checking what I've brought previously.
Peace.
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Salaam raginggaijin
For time reason, i cannot respond to all your points now. But be sure, i'll be back.
Just for note, english is my third language after arabic and french. So i can do mistakes in englishOK. Let's suppose that i am a lost guy who understand nothing. No problem for me.
It is a good exercise, and one that helps me to ensure I am following only what He revealed
OK. You are sure.
Now when i follow your verses i don't see what you see.
For example, when i followIt is the Temple in Jerusalem, destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel. Surah 174-7, 1760, 9107
i didn't succeed to see Jerusalem there.
i cannot see even temple of jerusalem in almasjidi alaqsa. According to history, it seems also that it would have been very difficult to Muhammad to see there a temple. The temple was already destructed and the actual masjid al aqsa was not yet built. So i didnt understand what Muhammad could have visited there.Since i have a hijab that empeach me to understand Quran and since i cannot empeach my devil to hide me some words, i ask your help to see the truth.
Since we don't see same thing in verses, please explain to me, in simple raginggaijin words.Please answer these clear questions
1 is Hajj a periode of 4 months of 30 days, so only one hajj of 120 days, or is there 4 distinct Hajj of 10 days each during 4 consecutives months, or truth is elsewhere. ?
2- How many times we have to do Hajj in our life ?
3- Is Shar ramadan in the end or at beginning and how many times we have to do siyyam (all kinds) in a year and how long each period is?4- What are we exactly supposed to do during Hajj (pilgrimnage ??? ) according to quran ? Is it in Mecca or in Jesusalem or elsewhere ?
5 -What are we supposed to do during Siyyam according to quran ?Please! Simple raginggaijin words. We will see verses later.
Peace
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Peace, a few comments ...
Moses' contract of marriage = 8 Hajj (hijajin) periods Surah 2827
2827 said I indeed I want that marry you any/one my daughters these two on that you work for me eight ijajin (flock migrations, 2 per year to from pastoral lands 4 years total) so if you complete ten for so from near you (i.e. up to you) and not I want that make difficult upon you you will find me if willed The God from the righteous
1247 said you will plant seven snyn/seasons (seeding) as usual so what you harvest so leave it in its ears except little from what you eat 1248 furthermore comes from after that seven severe eat/consume what you advanced for them except little from what you stored 1249 furthermore comes from after that Aam/year in it will be given succor/relief (i.e. flood returns) the humankind and in it they will press
Address was to Egyptians which their year was divided into three seasons 4x30-day months or 120 days
- Akhet - the inundation (June-Sept) Flooding Season. No farming was done at this time.
- Peret (Oct-Feb) Growing Season. Floodwaters receded; fertile soil ploughed and seeded.
- Shemu (March-May) The Harvesting Season.
1825 and they stayed in their cave three hundred snyn/seasons and increase nine for
309 x 12 lunar months = 299.799498 solar years
309 x 4 lunar months (seasons) = 99.9331659 years = 36500 days
300 x 12 lunar months + (9 solar years) = 300.067473 solar yearsThe above are possible conjectures answered in the next verse?
1826 say The God knows in what they remained...
296 and you will find them most greedy the humankind on life and from the those who associating partners loves one of them if is granted life thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration i.e. 1,000 lifetimes) and not it remove him from the punishment that is granted life and The God Seer in what they doing
2914 and surely We sent Noah to his folk so he stayed among them thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration 1000 or numerous time) except fifty Aama/year for so seized them the flood and they unjust
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OK. Let's suppose that i am a lost guy who understand nothing. No problem for me.
OK. You are sure.
Now when i follow your verses i don't see what you see.
For example, when i followi didn't succeed to see Jerusalem there.
i cannot see even temple of jerusalem in almasjidi alaqsa. According to history,Peace,
And this is where I caution you Who is Knowing, Seer?
When Allah gives a description, do you use history to make it fit or use the Quran to guide you to where it is?If Allah states the precincts were blessed, that's the area. The Temple ruins have been there since it was destroyed the second time.
it seems also that it would have been very difficult to Muhammad to see there a temple. The temple was already destructed and the actual masjid al aqsa was not yet built. So i didnt understand what Muhammad could have visited there.
You told me you didn't want to use hadith.
So why are you upholding the word of man over the Quran?If Allah names 'Masjid al-Aqsa' in the Quran in the 600s CE, why are you saying it wasn't there?
Does the Arabic revelation say 'Masjid al-Aqsa'? Yes or no.Yes. It does.
So again, why are you upholding the word of man over the Quran by saying it was not there yet?Since i have a hijab that empeach me to understand Quran and since i cannot empeach my devil to hide me some words, i ask your help to see the truth.
Since we don't see same thing in verses, please explain to me, in simple raginggaijin words.You state you are veiled from the Truth.
Hijab (veil/screen/curtain) Surah 746, 1745, 1917, 3353, 3832, 415, 4251How do you expect me to guide you if Allah covers you from understanding? I am not a guide nor a protector. Allah is your Guide.
Honestly, you have the Arabic revelation, you can see Masjid al-Aqsa named in the Quran, but you don't believe it was built yet even after it has been pointed out to you.
Have you gone out into the world to see how was the end of those who rejected, like Allah tells you to?"Divers institutions have passed away before you; journey in the land, and behold how was the end of those that cried lies. Surah 3137
Have the Jews rejected Allah or do they stand firm with Him?
What happened to them at the first and second Temple destruction?
Does Allah tell us about this in the Quran? (Yes, He does. D)Instead of asking me, prostrate in prayer and ask Allah to explain it to you. Don't associate partners with Allah.
Please answer these clear questions
1 is Hajj a periode of 4 months of 30 days, so only one hajj of 120 days, or is there 4 distinct Hajj of 10 days each during 4 consecutives months, or truth is elsewhere. ?
2- How many times we have to do Hajj in our life ?
3- Is Shar ramadan in the end or at beginning and how many times we have to do siyyam (all kinds) in a year and how long each period is?4- What are we exactly supposed to do during Hajj (pilgrimnage ??? ) according to quran ? Is it in Mecca or in Jesusalem or elsewhere ?
5 -What are we supposed to do during Siyyam according to quran ?Please! Simple raginggaijin words. We will see verses later.
Peace
Simple words. Now with images!
"Proof Hajj"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i21uxpnjyXg"Proof Qiblah"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhq1BDBG3ZsPeace.
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Peace, a few comments ...
2827 said I indeed I want that marry you any/one my daughters these two on that you work for me eight ijajin (flock migrations, 2 per year to from pastoral lands 4 years total) so if you complete ten for so from near you (i.e. up to you) and not I want that make difficult upon you you will find me if willed The God from the righteous
Interesting translation.
Can you show where the Quran upholds these are flock migrations and not the annual Hajj? The Quran contains a description for everything; I am sure you can show me where this word is used for this again, as Allah turns about the signs for those who study.Ayats from the Quran would be sufficient. Thanks.
1247 said you will plant seven snyn/seasons (seeding) as usual so what you harvest so leave it in its ears except little from what you eat 1248 furthermore comes from after that seven severe eat/consume what you advanced for them except little from what you stored 1249 furthermore comes from after that Aam/year in it will be given succor/relief (i.e. flood returns) the humankind and in it they will press
Address was to Egyptians which their year was divided into three seasons 4x30-day months or 120 days
- Akhet - the inundation (June-Sept) Flooding Season. No farming was done at this time.
- Peret (Oct-Feb) Growing Season. Floodwaters receded; fertile soil ploughed and seeded.
- Shemu (March-May) The Harvesting Season.
Correct.
Each 'season' is a 4 months.
Also note the 5 day period at the end of their seasonal year to keep in line with their civil calendar. This was noted in the initial, which is reposted here for clarityThe Egyptian calendar has an additional 5 days called the small (nasie) month, which wasn't a month but 5 days of festivities before the New Year, when Sirius' helical rising occurred and the Nile river flooded Egypt.
"'Your tryst shall be upon the days of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati).' said Moses. 'Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059
I'm interested in the information for where you got the months you posted. Could you share a link or point me in the direction of this source?
Especially since the Dog Days of Summer - the hottest period of the Summer season and associated with the setting of Sirius - occur during the time you have as Inundation.I have
- Akhet - the inundation (Aug-Nov) Flooding Season. No farming was done at this time.
- Peret (Dec-Mar) Growing Season. Floodwaters receded; fertile soil ploughed and seeded.
- Shemu (Apr-Jul) The Harvesting Season.
1825 and they stayed in their cave three hundred snyn/seasons and increase nine for
309 x 12 lunar months = 299.799498 solar years
309 x 4 lunar months (seasons) = 99.9331659 years = 36500 days
300 x 12 lunar months + (9 solar years) = 300.067473 solar yearsSo you are upholding it was a complete lunar year and not individual lunations?
You say the companions of the Cave were asleep for 300 civil years/309 lunar years and not 25 civil years?
Even if it is conjecture, am I understanding you correctly?I interpret it as individual lunations
I run into an issue in translating The word ?year? is written two different ways in the Quran ?Sanat? (ة and ??Aam? (م.Season (sanatin) Surah 296, 526, 2247, 2914, 325, 4615, 704
Season (sinna) Surah 7130, 105, 1242, 1247, 1712, 1811, 1825, 23112, 2618, 26205, 304Moon stages Surah 3639
Consecrated (ohilla) Surah 2173, 53, 6145, 16115
The phases Surah 21892189 They ask you about the phases. Say, ?They are His appointments for the men and the Pilgrimage.? And it is not the righteousness in that you approach the houses from their backs, but the righteousness is who bewares. And approach the houses from their entrances and beware The God so that you may succeed.
The seasons are known based on the positions and displays of the sun and the moon.
The sun Vernal Equinox, Summer Solstice, Autumnal Equinox, Winter Solstice.
The moon Blue Moon, Harvest Moon, Wet and Dry Moon, Absent New/Full Moons, Perigee and Apogee Moons.A Wet Moon is when the horns of the Crescent Moon point up at an angle, away from the horizon. It appears this way during the Summertime in the Northern Hemisphere.
A Dry Moon is when the horns of the Crescent Moon point to the side.
It appears this way during the Wintertime in the Northern Hemisphere.Pic http//www.wtv-zone.com/rosebuds/potpourri/pics/crescent-moon-path.gif
1712 And We made the night and the day two signs. Then we eliminate the sign of the night, and We made the sign of the day visible, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know count of the seasons (l-sinna), and the measure. And every thing We have detailed explanation.
105 He is the One who made the sun a light and the moon shining and determined for it stages, that you may know count of the seasons (l-sinna) and the measure. Not created The God that except in truth. He explains the signs to knowing people.
Lightning flash (sana) Surah 2443
"And they tarried in the Cave three hundred years, and to that they added nine more." Surah 1825
The heliacal rising of Sothis returned to the same point in the calendar every 1460 years (a period called the Sothic cycle). The difference between a seasonal year and a civil year was therefore 365 days in 1460 years, or one day in four years. Similarly, the Egyptians were aware that 309 lunations nearly equaled 9125 days, or 25 Egyptian years, which was later used in the construction of a secondary lunar calendar that did not depend on observations.
1247 He said, ?You will sow seven (sabAAa) seasons (sineena), as usual, and what you harvest so leave it in its ears except a little from which you eat.
1248 Then comes from after that seven severe; consume what you advanced for them, except a little of what you store. Then comes from after that a year (AAamun); in it will be given rain of the men, and in it will pour.Three (3) recitals = 3 months Surah 2228
Menstruation lasts approximately 28 days. In a large study of more than 30,000 cycles from more than 2300 women showed that the mean cycle length was 29.1 with a standard deviation of 7.5 days and a 95% prediction interval of between 15 and 45 days.There are 12 months in a year Surah 936
Hajj is annual. Surah 2196-197
You can't do Hajj twice a year.
8 pilgrimages (hijajin) = 8 years Surah 2827Bearing and weaning is 30 months (thalathoona shahran) Surah 4615
Weaning is 2 years (AAamayni) Surah 3114
A child starts using the umbilical cord after 12-13 weeks from fertilization. 1 year (amin) is 12 months.
Middle age is 40 years (arbaAAeena sanatan) Surah 4615Solar year (amin) Surah 2259, 928, 937, 9126, 1249, 2914, 3114
Based off of what I understand, our civil year is a solar year, with the sun and moon used to determine what season it is and when events like Hajj are to take place.
Using the rising and setting of Sirius, I believe the month to fast in is what my nation calls 'May'. The holy months kept sacred by our Creator are consecutive, and do not fall on the months when people were in caravan for trade; Winter and Summer. So the 4 months would occur in Spring August - November.All of this was posted at the beginning, but I am reposting it now for clarity.
The above are possible conjectures answered in the next verse?
1826 say The God knows in what they remained...
296 and you will find them most greedy the humankind on life and from the those who associating partners loves one of them if is granted life thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration i.e. 1,000 lifetimes) and not it remove him from the punishment that is granted life and The God Seer in what they doing
2914 and surely We sent Noah to his folk so he stayed among them thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration 1000 or numerous time) except fifty Aama/year for so seized them the flood and they unjust
And am I understanding you to say there are men who want to live 1000 civil years, and that Noah lived among his people for 950 years?
Thanks for the clarification.Peace.
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Interesting translation.
Can you show where the Quran upholds these are flock migrations and not the annual Hajj? The Quran contains a description for everything; I am sure you can show me where this word is used for this again, as Allah turns about the signs for those who study.Ayats from the Quran would be sufficient. Thanks. D
They are different words
2150 Hujjatun/the argument
2196 the Hajj
2827 Hijajin/migrationsThe father was old; only daughters; need help during migrations to from summer winter pastoral lands.
Consider why 8 and 10; on last migration with family where they going/coming and it was cold, Mecca?http//weatherspark.com/averages/32773/Mecca-Makkah-Saudi-Arabia
2829 so when fulfilled Moses the term and trailing with family his noticed from side the mount of a fire said to family his stay here I indeed perceived of a fire perhaps bring you from it of information or flame from the fire that may warm yourselves
I'm interested in the information for where you got the months you posted. Could you share a link or point me in the direction of this source?
Especially since the Dog Days of Summer - the hottest period of the Summer season and associated with the setting of Sirius - occur during the time you have as Inundation.Google ancient Egyptian seasons http//www.chiddingstone.kent.sch.uk/homework/egypt/farming.htm
So you are upholding it was a complete lunar year and not individual lunations?
You say the companions of the Cave were asleep for 300 civil years/309 lunar years and not 25 civil years?
Even if it is conjecture, am I understanding you correctly?No, not sure what they were conjecturing only gave a few possibilities and the answer given was thus?
1826 say The God knows in what they remained...
I run into an issue in translating The word ?year? is written two different ways in the Quran ?Sanat? (ة and ??Aam? (م.
Season (sanatin) Surah 296, 526, 2247, 2914, 325, 4615, 704
Season (sinna) Surah 7130, 105, 1242, 1247, 1712, 1811, 1825, 23112, 2618, 26205, 304I believe they are different words.
Aam/year
al-snyn/the seasons (i.e. times like the song ?seasons/times in the sun? use context; address to, etc.)
snh/way/path (multiple/iteration as used in many languages for multiplication or time element/the times)Examples
snh/path (times) the ancients
day of near your Lord like thousand snh/path (1000 time/multiple) from what you reckonBearing and weaning is 30 months (thalathoona shahran) Surah 4615
Weaning is 2 years (AAamayni) Surah 3114
A child starts using the umbilical cord after 12-13 weeks from fertilization. 1 year (amin) is 12 months.
Middle age is 40 years (arbaAAeena sanatan) Surah 4615Need to be consistent; 40 iterations possibly cell divisions to maturity not 40 x 4 lunar months (seasons) ~ 13 years old.
4615 and We enjoined the human to his parents goodness carried him his mother unwillingly and gave birth to him unwillingly and carried him and his separation (3114 in Aamyn/two years) thirty shra/cycle for until when reached peak-ness and reaches forty snh/path (multiple/iteration/time) said Lord grant me that I be grateful Your grace the one blessed on to me and on my parents and that I do righteous which please You and correct for me in my offspring I indeed perish to thee and indeed I from the peace makers
And am I understanding you to say there are men who want to live 1000 civil years, and that Noah lived among his people for 950 years?
No that would be a contradiction and there are those who want to live a 1000 lifetimes and Noah was sent numerous times (i.e. 1000 iterations) except 50 years prior to his mission is my understanding.
2914 and surely We sent Noah to his folk so he stayed among them thousand snh/path (multiple/iteration i.e. 1000 time) except fifty Aama/year for (trailing alif denotes for/of) so seized them the flood and they unjust
Peace
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They are different words
2150 Hujjatun/the argument
2196 the Hajj
2827 Hijajin/migrationsBut where does it mean 'flock migrations' - where we migrate flocks of animals. Every single instance deals with people, not animals.
The father was old; only daughters; need help during migrations to from summer winter pastoral lands.
Consider why 8 and 10; on last migration with family where they going/coming and it was cold, Mecca?http//weatherspark.com/averages/32773/Mecca-Makkah-Saudi-Arabia
2829 so when fulfilled Moses the term and trailing with family his noticed from side the mount of a fire said to family his stay here I indeed perceived of a fire perhaps bring you from it of information or flame from the fire that may warm yourselves
Moses was in Midian, not Mecca. That's in Egypt, on the Sinai Peninsula.
"On the right way. And when he came to the waters of Midian he found a company of the people there drawing water, and he found, apart from them, two women holding back their flocks. He said, 'What is your business?' They said, 'We may not draw water until the shepherds drive off; and our father is passing old.'" Surah 2823
It is a leap in interpretation to go from 'Pilgrimage' or 'challenge' to 'flock migrations'. Surah 919
Pilgrimage (hajj) Surah2158, 2189, 2196-197, 397, 93, 919, 2227, 2827
Challenge (hajju) Surah 276, 2139, 2150, 2258, 320, 361, 365-66, 373, 4165, 680, 683, 6149, 4047, 4215-16, 4525Google ancient Egyptian seasons http//www.chiddingstone.kent.sch.uk/homework/egypt/farming.htm
The Middle School essay was good for consolidation, but unfortunately it has an error that you repeated.
- Akhet - the inundation (June-Sept) <---- 4 months
- Peret (Oct-Feb)<--- 5 months
- Shemu (March-May) <---- 3 months
The seasons are 4 months long.
I don't see the references used within the essay to confirm where the information used in this Middle School essay were taken. That which is stated without evidence can be refuted without evidence. But I want to bring evidence to show where I am getting information on the Egyptian calendar.
Another online teaching gives dates totally different than the link you provided
http//www.dragonstrike.com/egypt/ecalendar.htm- Akhet - the inundation (Aug-Nov)
- Peret (Dec-Mar)
- Shemu (Apr-Jul)
http//www.learning-connections.co.uk/curric/cur_pri/egypt/handson/answers/hands_10.html
- Akhet - the inundation (July-Oct)
- Peret (Nov-Feb)
- Shemu (March-June)
Coptic Christian calendar, based on the Egyptian calendar
http//www.copticchurch.net/easter.html- Akhet - the inundation (Sep-Dec)
- Peret (Jan-Apr)
- Shemu (May-Aug)
The histories have many conflicts in dating, and there is little consensus. Even in the book 'Civil Calendar and Lunar Calendar in Ancient Egypt' by Leo Depuydt, he mentions how every nation had a different timing for the beginning of the year.
But one thing is constant throughout The Egyptian New Year began with the rising of Sirius. So using that as a marker, as the rising and setting of Sirius is (I believe) described in the Quran, we can determine what was the beginning of the year and in accord with the descriptions given in the seasons using the sun and the moon; equinox and solstices along with seasonal moons.
Allah does not make mistakes, nor forgets. )
One event spoken of in the Quran is the festival of adornment in Egypt. There is evidence in the Egyptian history and calendars of the Festival that occurs when the Nile rises, determined when Sirius rises.
Which is why I believe the Egyptian year began with the rising of Sirius, which determines the beginning of the Egyptian Spring season First of Akhet.
This Italian chart gives the dates - plus or minus a couple days - that Sirius rose and set over the course of millennia
http//www.cieloeterra.it/strumenti/sorgeresirio.htmlThe Quran was sent to all nations. I believe I need only understand what astrological and seasonal events are described in the Quran to determine when an event or rite is to occur.
'Ramadan' is the month of 'scorching', when the Quran was revealed. Surah 2185
This period occurred during the setting and rising of Sirius - when Sirius is not seen in the night sky but is seen during the day. Surah 531-11The link discusses the 'Dog Days' and its relevance with Sirius and the sun in an easy to understand manner
http//www.nbcnews.com/id/44126237/ns/technology_and_science-space/t/dog-days-summer-end-dog-stars-sky-return/#.UQ7Q-6xdCSoFrom the link
"The astronomer Geminus - around 70 B.C. - wrote "It is generally believed that Sirius produces the heat of the Dog Days, but this is an error, for the star merely marks a season of the year when the sun?s heat is the greatest.""The one constant throughout the rising of Sirius and the Dog Days of extreme heat is the month of July.
There is a 40 day period - 20 days before and after the conjunction of Sirius and the Sun - that are considered the 'Dog Days' of intense heat. (A conjunction is a time when two or more bodies appear close together in the sky.)No, not sure what they were conjecturing only gave a few possibilities and the answer given was thus?
1826 say The God knows in what they remained...
I also believe it is a test for us.
Remember the counting test given in Surah 18?
"When We raised them up that We might know which of the two parties was best able to compute the time for which they remained." Surah 1812
I believe they are different words.
Aam/year
al-snyn/the seasons (i.e. times like the song ?seasons/times in the sun? use context; address to, etc.)
snh/way/path (multiple/iteration as used in many languages for multiplication or time element/the times)Examples
snh/path (times) the ancients
day of near your Lord like thousand snh/path (1000 time/multiple) from what you reckonThank you for confirming that I am correct in understanding they are different.
Need to be consistent; 40 iterations possibly cell divisions to maturity not 40 x 4 lunar months (seasons) ~ 13 years old.
I agree; consistency is going to be throughout the Quran. It is error-free.
There are plural and singular usage of (sana)
Lunation - individual lunation - (sanatin) Surah 296, 526, 2247, 2914, 325, 4615, 704
Lunation seasons -group of lunations - (sinna) Surah 7130, 105, 1242, 1247, 1712, 1811, 1825, 23112, 2618, 26205, 304So based on your calculations, a man wants to live 1000 years and Noah was among his people 1000 times. Same word but different meanings. That is not consistent. That is inconsistent.
But take the usage as a single unit or a grouping based on the word, and you find consistency.
"And you shall find them, the men, longing for life. And from those who idolize, they wish - anyone of them - that they live a thousand seasons (sanatin). And they will not be ones who are spared from the punishment that they live. And The God is Seer of what they work." Surah 296
Let's go with individual lunations for (sanatin).
If 309 lunations (sinna) = 25 years then...
...1 lunation (sanatin) = .08 years (amin).
1000 seasons (sanatin) x .08 years (amin) = 80 years (amin)."Indeed, We sent Noah to his people, and he tarried among them a thousand seasons (sanatin), all but fifty years (AAaman); so the Flood seized them, while they were evildoers." Surah 2914
If 309 lunations (sinna) = 25 years then...
...1 lunation (sanatin) = .08 years (amin).
1000 seasons (sanatin) x .08 years (amin) = 80 years (amin).Noah was alive approximately 80 years (amin), and was with his people for 30 years (amin).
Is it consistent with the examples given in the Quran?
Using your example of maturity being 13, let's look at the Arabic revelation
"Wawassayna al-insana biwalidayhi ihsanan hamalat-hu ommuhu kurhan wawadaAAat-hu kurhan wahamluhu wafisaluhu thalathoona shahran hatta itha balagha ashuddahu wabalagha arbaAAeena sanatan qala rabbi awziAAnee an ashkura niAAmataka allatee anAAamta AAalayya waAAala walidayya waan aAAmala salihan tardahu waaslih lee fee thurriyyatee innee tubtu ilayka wa-innee mina almuslimeena" Surah 4615
"We have charged man, that he be kind to his parents; his mother bore him painfully, and painfully she gave birth to him; his bearing and his weaning are thirty months. Until, when he is fully grown, and reaches forty years, he says, 'O my Lord, dispose me that I may be thankful for Thy blessing wherewith Thou hast blessed me and my father and mother, and that I may do righteousness well-pleasing to Thee; and make me righteous also in my seed. Behold, I repent to Thee, and am among those that surrender.'" Surah 4625
I want to point out "when (itha) he reaches (balagha) his maturity (ashuddahu) and reaches (wabalagha) forty (arbaAAeena) seasons (sanatan)"
Maturity is gained, then another 40 seasons occurs before thanks is given. By the count of 1 (sanatin) = .08 civil years, that gives 3.2 years in addition to strength.
The age of majority is the threshold of adulthood as it is conceptualized (and recognized or declared) in law. It is the chronological moment when minors cease to legally be considered children and assume control over their persons, actions, and decisions, thereby terminating the legal control and legal responsibilities of their parents or guardian over and for them. Most countries set majority at 18.3.2 years after the age of 18 is 21 years of age.
Part of my own understanding comes in releasing the old ideas I had and only believing what can be proven with evidence.
Being able to be grateful to Allah for guidance at the age of 21 makes sense. It also refutes Rashad's claims of being safe until 40 years old.
Living to 80 years old makes sense. Allah does not change His creation. Surah 3030
Noah being among his people for 30 years makes sense.
A man wanting to live 1000 months makes sense.Are children of 13 able to marry? No.
We do not give over property to them until they are mature.
Neither do we marry people until they are mature and able to make their own decisions. Surah 46, 421, 2228, 654, 1734"Test well the orphans, until they reach (balaghoo) the age of marrying (alnnikaha); then, if you perceive in them right judgment, deliver to them their property; consume it not wastefully and hastily ere they are grown. If any man is rich, let him be abstinent; if poor, let him consume in reason. And when you deliver to them their property, take witnesses over them; God suffices for a reckoner." Surah 46
"And do not approach the property of the orphan save in the fairest manner, until he reaches (yablugha) maturity (ashuddahu). And fulfil the covenant; surely the covenant shall be questioned of." Surah 1734
Are men and women of 18 years able to marry and bear witness to contracts/business dealings? Yes.
A man and woman have full privileges as an adult at age 21 here in the United States. )Allah even makes note of how we count seasons by saying 'as you count' in Surah 325
"He directs the affair from heaven to earth, then it goes up to Him in one day, whose measure is a thousand seasons (sanatin) of your counting." Surah 325Now take the usage of (sineena) as a grouping.
"He said, ?You will sow seven (sabAAa) seasons (sineena), as usual, and what you harvest so leave it in its ears except a little from which you eat."
This gives description of 7 harvest seasons - a group. The Egyptians are the example in the Quran, and as you provided evidence along with myself, there is only one period of time each year devoted to growth and another to harvest.
There are not 7 periods in a single year. There is one period of 4 months for the sowing season in a year.
There was one season of 4 months per a single year 7 seasons total = 7 years.
And Joseph states after the seven severe, there will be a year (amin) with abundance of rain."Then comes from after that seven severe; consume what you advanced for them, except a little of what you store. Then comes from after that a year (AAamun); in it will be given rain of the men, and in it will pour." 1248
Multiple seasons of hardship
"Then seized We Pharaoh's people with the seasons (bialssineena) of dearth, and scarcity of fruits, that haply they might remember." Surah 7130Equinoxes, solstices and seasonal moons
"And We made the night and the day two signs. Then we eliminate the sign of the night, and We made the sign of the day visible, that you may seek bounty from your Lord, and that you may know count of the seasons (l-sinna), and the measure. And every thing We have detailed explanation." Surah 1712"He is the One who made the sun a light and the moon shining and determined for it stages, that you may know count of the seasons (l-sinna) and the measure. Not created The God that except in truth. He explains the signs to knowing people." Surah 105
Points to ponder, insha'Allah.
No that would be a contradiction and there are those who want to live a 1000 lifetimes and Noah was sent numerous times (i.e. 1000 iterations) except 50 years prior to his mission is my understanding.
That is your understanding.
Yet Allah states Noah was among his people, not sent again and again. You even posted it in your translation. You even note the usage of the words.Peace. )
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Simple words. Now with images!
"Proof Hajj"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=i21uxpnjyXg"Proof Qiblah"
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhq1BDBG3ZsPeace.
Salaam
with this kind of proof, just by changing images in the video, i can let watcher think that Disneyland is Masjid Haram and that Beyt Allah is House of Mickey.Dear, raginggaijin, i think that discussion will be very difficult with you.
Peace
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Salaam
with this kind of proof, just by changing images in the video, i can let watcher think that Disneyland is Masjid Haram and that Beyt Allah is House of Mickey.But when the viewer goes to the ayats posted, they'll find instead Masjid al-Haram named, the description of its locale, and what is the purpose of Bayt al-Haram. Not to mention they'll also read about Masjid al-Aqsa and how the Temple of the Yahudians was destroyed twice for their turning away from Allah's straight path.
Yet you won't find Disneyland or the 'house of Mickey' in those ayats. )
Dear, raginggaijin, i think that discussion will be very difficult with you.
Peace
On the contrary, I am the one bringing evidence from the Quran to prove why I believe what I believe.
You bring... nothing. Well, nothing except insult and invalidation; the lowest form of rhetoric.
If you don't believe as I believe, that's fine. I'm not here to compel anyone to believe as I do.
If you can't refute what I've shown, that's fine as well. That is helpful to me in my own search for Truth Truth destroys falsehood. It is evidence I am onto something, and to continue down this path of research.But don't get angry. Just go your way and allow Allah to judge between us come the Day of the Afterlife.
Just understand that I'm not a Jew nor a Christian. I don't follow their ways or the Books sent to the families of the Book. I follow only the Quran; the Book sent to my people.
Allah is sufficient for me. I submit my will to Him alone.
Peace. )
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Dear, raginggaijin, i think that discussion will be very difficult with you.
Let's be clear I disagree.
You don't like videos?
Then let's bring evidence without pretty pictures.First, our qiblah - Masjid al-Haram.
I have to start from the beginning. I reject all beliefs taught by man, and follow only what Allah reveals in the Quran.
I have to study and research the original Arabic revelation for the Truth.
Follow only what Allah revealed Surah 299, 6155, 6106, 73, 7157, 7203-204, 864, 10109, 12111, 332, 1736,1827-28, 159, 2848-49, 3529, 496, 5417,22,32,40, 7518, 8521-22, 961, 981-8The qiblah is our bearing and our place of offering; a masjid we face to show whose teachings we follow and a focal point for all to gather when we give our offerings to Allah.
The qiblah is found in previous Books and other faiths. They will not follow our bearing, nor do we follow their bearing. Many don?t even follow their own bearing.Qiblah shows whose teachings we follow Surah 2143
Qiblah is a command from Allah Surah 729
?Say 'My Lord has commanded justice. Set your faces (wujoohakum) in every place of worship (masjidin) and call on Him, making your religion (alddeena) sincerely His. As He originated you so you will return;? Surah 729"And We did not make that which thou wouldst have to be the place of devotion but that We might distinguish him who follows the Messenger from him who turns back upon his heels. And it was indeed a hard test except for those whom Allah has guided." Surah 2143
Moses and Aaron were told to turn their homes (buyootakum) in Egypt into a qiblah - a bearing (qiblatan) Surah 1087
We are told Bacca, a holy place in a valley, contains the Holy House, the home (maqami) of Abraham. Surah 396-97, 1437
"Our Lord, I have made some of my seed to dwell in a valley (biwadin) where is no sown land by Thy Sacred House (baytika almuharrami); Our Lord, let them perform the prayer, and make hearts of men yearn towards them, and provide them with fruits; haply they will be thankful." Surah 1437?The first House (awwala baytin) established for the people (lilnnasi) was that at Bakka (bibakkata), a place holy, and a guidance (wahudan) to all beings (lilAAalameena).
Therein are clear signs (ayatun) -- the station (maqamu) of Abraham, and whosoever enters it is in security. It is the duty of all men towards Allah to come to the House (albayti) a pilgrim, if he is able to make his way there. As for the unbeliever, Allah is All-sufficient nor needs any being.? Surah 396-97The location of the place of Abraham (pbuh) is a sign. Surah 396-97
The station/home (maqami) of Abraham Surah 2125, 397, 2226
maqami A sphere of duty, a place of importance established for service to Allah.?Say 'O my people, act according to your station (makanatikum); I am acting. And assuredly you will know who shall possess the Abode Ultimate. Surely the evildoers will not prosper.'? Surah 6135
?and We will surely make you to dwell in the land after them -- that, for him who fears My station (maqamee) and fears My threat.'? Surah 1414
?And as for the night, keep vigil a part of it, as a work of supererogation for thee; it may be that thy Lord will raise thee up to a laudable station (maqaman).? Surah 1779Abraham (pbuh) asked Allah to bless the House (bayt), and to raise up a Messenger from his lineage. Surah 2127-129
Abraham?s wife lived there as well. Surah 1173
Allah clearly states Abraham was neither a Jew nor a Christian. Surah 2140No where in the Quran is Hagar mentioned.
The Quran is the verifier of the previous Books. Surah 548
We are warned about following the low desires of those who inherited previous Books. Surah 549, 577If there is a qiblah in the Quran, then the previous Books would have one to verify using the Criterion (Furqan) that is the Quran. And there is
Solomon's qiblah I Kings 822-44, Surah 171, 174-7, 9107, 3413
"...Even heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain you, much less this house that I have built! Regard your servant's prayer and his plea, O Lord my God, heeding the cry and the prayer that your servant prays to you today... Hear the plea of your servant and of your people Israel when they pray toward this place... When heaven is shut up and there is no rain because they have sinned against you, and then they pray towards this place, confess your name, and turn from their sin..." I Kings 822-44Daniel faced Jerusalem during prayer Dan. 610
Isa set his face toward Jerusalem Luke 951-56Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Farthest Mosque, is named in the Quran. Surah 171
"Glory be to Him, who carried His servant by night from the Sacred Mosque (almasjidi alharami) to the Further Mosque (almasjidi alaqsa) the precincts (hawlahu) of which We have blessed (barakna), that We might show him some of Our signs. He is the All-hearing, the All-seeing." Surah 171
It is the Temple in Jerusalem, destroyed twice for the disobedience of the Bani Israel. Surah 174-7, 1760, 9107
Hadith teaches to face the Kaaba in prayer. Is the Kaaba my qiblah?
"And when We made the House (Bayt) a resort for men and a security. And Take ye the station (maqami) of Abraham for a place of prayer. And We enjoined Abraham and Ishmael, saying Purify My House (Bayt) for those who visit and those who abide for devotion and those who bow down, those who prostrated themselves." Surah 2125
People can not prostrate themselves inside the Kaaba, the Bayt Al-Haram,
They prostrate inside Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque, in Mecca.We are Muslims. We perform the rites of Allah (shaAAa-iri Allahi) as He described in the Quran.
Hajj Surah 2158, 2189, 2196-197, 397, 51-2, 595-97, 91-5, 919, 2225-30. 2267, 6310, 7320
Pilgrimage a duty to those able to make their way there Surah 397
What to do if you cannot make Hajj Surah 2196-197
Hajj is annual Surah 2196-197
Days/Months well known Surah 2197, 936, 2228
Holy months are consecutive Surah 91-5, 936-37
Months of pilgrimage Surah 1062
Sacred month of Hajj Surah 2194, 2217, 52, 597, 91-5
Day of Greater Pilgrimage (beginning of 4 months) Surah 93
Fasting if you hunt during Hajj Surah 595If we were to sacrifice inside the Ancient House, the ayat would read 'bibayti alAAateeqi' as it does in Surah 2229.
We know the Sacred Mosque was around during Muhammad's time because it is written in the Quran "O you who believe, the idolators are surely unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year of theirs." Surah 928
The qiblah of Muslims who follow the Quran is Masjid Al-Haram.
"they give food, for the love of Him, to the needy, the orphan, the captive" Surah 768
The original Arabic in Surah 2 142-150 states 'Masjid Al-Haram'.
The Sacred Mosque.We are to face Masjid Al-Haram, the Sacred Mosque. Surah 2144, 2149, 2150. Allah tells us this three (3) times.
Allah tells us three (3) times "This is truth from thy Lord, so be thou not of the doubters." Surah 2144, 2147, 2149Surah 2225-33 differentiates between Masjid Al-Haram and Bayt Al-Haram. Bayt is House.
Sacred House (albayta alharama) Surah 52, 597, 1437
The House (albayti) Surah 2125, 396, 835, 2226
Ancient House (albayti alAAateeqi) Surah 2229, 2233Masjid is Mosque.
Sacred Mosque (almasjidi alharamu) Surah 2144, 2149, 2150, 2191, 2196, 2217, 52, 834, 97, 919, 928, 171, 2225, 4825, 4827Allah makes sure we know the Kaaba is known as the Sacred House in Surah 597. The Kaaba is the place sacrifice.
The Kaaba, the destination for offerings, is named in the Quran. Surah 595-97, 2233
Sacrifice (nusukin) Surah 2128, 2196, 2200, 6162, 2234, 2267
Offering (alhadyu) Surah 2196, 52, 595, 597, 4825
Lawful place/destination (maillahu) Surah 2196, 2233, 4825
Cattle (al-anAAami) Surah 51, 6142, 2228, 2234, 2549, 3528, 396, 4712You cannot live in the Kaaba, but families live(d) in Masjid Al-Haram. Surah 2196, 2225, 2791, 2967, 4824
Safa and Marwah are mountain ranges found between Midian and Mecca, mined for quartz and stone.
"Safa and Marwah are signs of Allah; so whoever makes a pilgrimage to the House or pays a visit, there is no blame on him if he goes round them." Surah 2158
"And We set, between them and the towns (alqura)that We have blessed (barakna), cities apparent (quran thahiratan) and well We measured (waqaddarna) the journey (alssayra) between them 'Journey among them by night and day in security!'" Surah 3418
Movement/moving (alssayra/sayran) Surah 3418, 5210"I have only been commanded to serve the Lord of this territory (hathihi) which He has made sacred (harramaha); to Him belongs everything. And I have been commanded to be of those that surrender (almuslimeena)," Surah 2791
The Valley of Baca is spoken of as well in Psalm 841-12
"Blessed are those whose strength is in you,
in whose heart are the highways to Zion.
As they go through the Valley of Baca
they make it a place of springs;
the early rain also covers it with pools.
They go from strength to strength;
each one appears before God in Zion.
LORD God of hosts, hear my prayer;
give ear, O God of Jacob!" Psalm 845-8Baca (Hebrew 'emeq habakka' Psalm 841-12, Surah 396
I am told this ?Valley of Baca? is not the same spoken of in the Quran. After all, Zion is in Jerusalem, right?
Let us turn to the Bible to see if their teachings refute their claims.We know the Temple in Jerusalem is not the station of Abraham, as Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Farthest Mosque found in Jerusalem, is named in the Quran. Surah 171
Allah gives description of this Temple and its destruction ? twice ? in the Quran. It is the Temple of the Children of Israel. 174-7,1760
This Temple was created by Solomon (pbuh) and is the qiblah of the Bani Israel and the Yahudians.Solomon's qiblah I Kings 822-44
People say there is no indication of Pilgrimage in the Bible, yet the Quran shows Moses (pbuh) designated a specific day to contend with the Magi of Pharoah.
"'Your tryst shall be upon the Day of the Adornment (yawmu alzzeenati). Let the people be mustered at the high noon.'" Surah 2059
If it is in the Quran, which verifies the previous Books, we will find some indication of this in the previous Books.
Moses (pbuh) asked Pharaoh to take his people 3 days into the wilderness to give thanks to Allah, PRIOR to their leaving Egypt, before given their rites of devotion Hag Sukkot, Hag ha-Mazzot, and Hag Shabu'ot?
Hajj/Hag Ha-Sukkot Exo. 109, Exo. 51, Exo. 318, Exo. 134, Exo. 2314-17, Exo 3422-24, Deut 1613-16, Neh. 89-12, Neh. 21, Lev. 239-21, Est. 89
"And afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." Exo. 51
"And Moses said, We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters, with our flocks and with our herds will we go; for we must hold a feast unto the LORD." Exo. 109Allah is clear He gave each nation acts of devotion (shaAAa-iri) Surah 52, 2232, 2234, 2236, 2267
Yahudians follow their rites given by Allah through Moses and Aaron (pbut).The Hebrews designated a festival by the word "ag" (the Arabic "ajj", originally implying a choragic rhythmic procession around the shrine of an idol or an altar (see Wellhausen, "Skizzen und Vorarbeiten," 3106); but later, without specific reference to this usage, connoting a day or season of joy ("ag" and "simah" are correlatives; comp. Amos 710; Deut.1614). "Hag" denotes more specifically the three agricultural festivals (Ex. 2314), or the Festival of Unleavened Bread and Tabernacles (Lev. 236, Lev. 2334), or the latter only (Judges 2119; Eze. 1125; II Chron. 53; II Chr. 78-9).
?You shall keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. As I commanded you, you shall eat unleavened bread for seven days at the appointed time in the month of Abib, for in it you came out of Egypt. None shall appear before me empty-handed.? Exo. 2315
??e-a hammaw ti?mr ?i?a ym?m t?al maw ka??er i??i lmw? e? h?? k?-w y? mimmiryim wl?-yr?? fnay r?qm? Exo 2315?You shall keep the Feast of Harvest, of the first fruits of your labor, of what you sow in the field. You shall keep the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year, when you gather in from the field the fruit of your labor.? Exo. 2316
?wa haqq?r bik?r? ma?ey ??er tizra? baeh wa h?sif b? ha??n? b?sp ?e-ma?ey min-haeh? Exo. 2316?You shall observe the Feast of Weeks, the first fruits of wheat harvest, and the Feast of Ingathering at the year?s end.? Exo. 3422
?wa ?u? ta?eh l bik?r? q?r i?m wa h?s?f tq?fa ha??n?? Exo. 3422Moses and Aaron were told to turn their homes (buyootakum) into a bearing (qiblatan) Surah 1087
Prior to their acts revealed unto them through Moses and Aaron (pbut), they performed a different act of devotion.There is reference to the House of Allah in the Bible, even though the polytheists are adverse to admitting it..
Isaiah 11-18 speaks of the Yahudians, the destruction of their lands and homes, and their festivals while in exile."Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers.
And the daughter of Zion is left as a cottage in a vineyard, as a lodge in a garden of cucumbers, as a besieged city." Isa. 17This was during the exile of the Yahudians after the first destruction of the Temple, and prior to the rebuilding by Cyrus the Persian.
?Certain men came from Shechem, from Shiloh, and from Samaria, eighty men with beards shaved and their clothes torn, having cut themselves, with offerings and incense in their hand, to bring them to the house of the Lord.? Jer. 415
"To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.
When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?
Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.
Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them." Isa. 111-14With the Temple destroyed, where would the Bani Israel go for their ?solemn meeting?
What courts of Allah were ?trampled? in new moon feasts when the Temple was destroyed by the armies of Nebuchadnezzar?Cyrus the Persian is named Messiah in Isaiah 451 ? liberator of the Yahud during their captivity in Babylon. He decreed the reconstruction of the Temple. His successor Darius I, known as Dhul-Qarnain in the Quran, is credited with creation of the wall of Derbent in the Caucasus Mountains and is written in the Bible to have completed construction of the Temple in Jerusalem.
Yet in the Bible we see the ?trampling of courts? discussed.
The Jewish Encyclopedia discusses circambulation
"Extension of Sukkot.
The seventh day of the festival is distinguished as the "great Hosha'na" (the Gospel accounts of Jesus' entry on Palm Sunday seem to have confused this with Pesaḥ, or "the day of the palm-and willow-branches" (Suk. 42-45). Carrying in their hands branches at least eleven feet long, the celebrants make seven circuits around the desk, chanting "Hosha'na" (Ps. cxviii. 25), and then beat the floor with the branches. This custom, said to be of Mosaic origin, is undoubtedly an adaptation of a Babylonian rite (Yer. 'Ab. Zarah iv.)."No where in the Quran is a ritual of Circambulation taught or discussed.
The Quran tells us we are to go about inside the House. How does one go about their business inside their own home?This is a Kabbalist rite known as ?squaring the circle?. They circle the Kaaba 7 times to represent the 7 ?heavens? or celestial bodies that circle above the earth, and in honor of the alchemical or ?spiritual realms? Fire, Water, Earth, Air, Above, Below, and Within.
Carl Jung taught this was a ?symbol of the opus alchymicum because it breaks down the original chaotic unity into the four elements and then combines them again in a higher unity?; the Philosopher?s stone.
This symbolic ritual used in esoteric Mystery schools and alchemy is taught by the Kabbalist satans who infiltrated the religions of man, turning service to our Creator into an idolatrous rite of magic, sorcery.
This rite was practiced by 3 million Islamists in 2010 alone.The Canted Square
The candidate circle the altar in a particular manner.
It is called circumambulation.
Circumambulation is the practice of ??making a circuit about a thing or in an area of reverence??
circumambulation involves the making of a circuit around, while keeping the right hand toward the altar.
?The rite is symbolic of the apparent daily course of the sun, derived from the ancient sun-worship.?
?During the circuits,
corners should be squared in accordance with the ancient tradition
the Entered Apprentice during initiation shall proceed to the northeast corner three times during the circumambulation,
the Fellowcraft during passing shall proceed there four times,
and the Master being raised shall proceed there five times.Masjid Al-Qiblatain ? the Mosque of Two Qiblahs ? in Medina 9107-109 ? "And those who have taken a mosque in opposition and unbelief, and to divide the believers, and as a place of ambush for those who fought Allah and His Messenger aforetime -- they will swear 'We desired nothing but good'; and Allah testifies they are truly liars." Surah 9107
"Those to whom We have given the Book study it as it should be studied they are the ones that believe therein those who reject faith therein, the loss is their own." Surah 2121
Allah does not make mistakes, nor forgets Surah 482, 2052
Allah does not change His way (sunnati Allahi) Surah 1777, 3030, 3362, 4823, 673-4My qiblah is Masjid Al-Haram, the Holy Mosque that surrounds the Kaaba.
Quiblah, Masjid Al-Haram, Kaaba, Masjid Al-Aqsa
Surah 2225-33,36,73 595,97, 2125,127,142-150, 396, 4827, 1437, 728,31,73, 91,17,19-22,28, 171,81, 3449, 1051, 287, 2191, 2196, 2217, 502, 834, 731, 907, 9107-108, 1707, 1821, 4825,27Bring your proof Surah 2111, 657, 842, 1410, 2124, 2764, 2875, 5238
May your studies be blessed by Allah.
Peace.
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Allah does not make mistakes, nor forgets Surah 482, 2052
Allah does not change His way (sunnati Allahi) Surah 1777, 3030, 3362, 4823, 673-4Salaam ragingaijin
When you quote such verses , i can only be agree with you.
The problem is not to know if that God has a good understanding of islam. The problem is to know if we have a good understanding.There is absolutely no reason that i take your understanding as truth. It is, of course, the same for you and you have no reason to take my understanding as truth.
You are not my Rabb. I am not your Rabb (in arabic, Rabba means educate, make grows).Al-Aqsa Mosque, the Farthest Mosque, is named in the Quran. Surah 171
This is an example of what i cannot accept.
Proof that Masjid Al-aqsa is the one in Jerusalem is not made for me. Mentionning verse 17-1 doesn't change anything for me.Now, if you are ready to go further, we have to do an agreement
The best dictionnary for understanding Quran is Quran Himself. To understand a word, the true meaning of a word, let's see how God use it in other contexts.
Quran comes first. Before arabic dictionnaries, before translators, before traditionnal beliefs, before our Cultural "IDENTITIES", before Torah and before Gospel.It is difficult to respond to all what you said (you claimed many things).
However i am pleased with some of what you have said (sorry for my english).
I appreciate for example the link you made between Hajj and sukkot. I agree that is probably the same thing, but it seems that we don't agree on dates and on what to do (read 19-26 and type this phonetic transcription of sukkot in a google traductor. ).For example, you said "No where in the Quran is Hagar mentioned. ".
I agree.
However, Safa and marwa are related to Hagar history. If we reject Hagar, we can then reject traditional meaning of Safa and marwa.
Safa and marwa (2-15 are described as chaa'ir. But there is a big difference between you have to make Taouf with(or around) them and it is not forbidden to make taouf (with them).
On the other side, word chaa'ir is used in verses 5-2,22-32;22-36. Acoording to context where this word is used in other verses than 2-158, it seems that chaa'ir is related to animal lifestock.
safa has many meaning in arabic. It's root can mean clear, aligned or selected.
. .
.
.if you don't read arabic, this extract from arab dictionnary (( ة) shows that word SAFA is applied to animal lifestock and camels.
Marwa is from root rawa wich means drink. Marwa can then be understood as a drink or as animals to wich we give water to drink.By this method of analyse, from a starting point that is based on quranic verses, we can find a coherent interpretation of two words.
There is great difference between animals and sacred mountains.2158 Indeed, the SAFA and the MARWA are chaa'ir of God. So whoever makes HAJJ to the BAYT, or is making OMRA, commits no error should he YATOUF BIHIMA. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Thankful, knoweth
The last part of verse 2158, where safa and marwa appears seems to relates safa and marwa to acts of donation for goodness.
My conclusion is then SAFA and MARWA have nothing to do with mountains, neither sacred or not.Quran is itself a miracle. Both words and meaning are sealed. When Chaytan comes and say "That word mean that thing", and the explanation of Chaytan succeds to enter in dictionnaries and geography, Quran make always possible to people attached to Quran to discover the truth.
22-52 Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs for Allah is full of Knowledge and WisdomI will always be grateful to brother Ayman (http//www.free-minds.org/whats-name) to have shown me this methodology. But i disagree with brother ayman on many points simply because Brother Ayman, whose article are very interesting, is simply not my rabb.
Dear, raginggaijin
May your studies be blessed by Allah.
I hope to you the same thing.
Even when we read Quran, we have to avoid meanings put by Chaytan in our mind.
I had the same beliefs as you. But i Changed my understanding of many concepts.
Really, it was not easy and i am not even sure to be on the straight path.There is many questions to wich i have no response.
For example, you quoted verse
28-27 He said "I intend to wed one of these my daughters to thee, on condition that thou serve me for eight HIJAJ; but if thou complete ten , it will be (grace) from thee. But I intend not to place thee under a difficulty thou wilt find me, indeed, if Allah wills, one of the righteous."My problem is that according Torah, Moses was with Jethro during 40 years (he went at Firaoun at 83). Wich leads that One HIJAJ equals 4 years ? ??? ?.
I don't know what does that mean but i cannot forget that Torah came before Quran and 28-27 can not be a correction of torah but a definition of something related to Hajj.
On the other side, you mentionned the three jewish feast. In verse 2-197, God says that Ashor HARAM are known. What "known" means ? I came to conclusion, after many readings, that it means "see what remain from my other books". But where is the fourth festival if Hajj is sukkot ?
my intuition is that the fourth one is what this thead call winter ramadan. Not because of ramadan but because of feast of Mithra who became Christmas. It is logical to believe that jews forget the fourth Shahr haram when they forget the Messiah. It is what a detective would call "the motive of the crime". But i cannot proove it.You see, dear raginggaijin, we believe in the same god, in the same book and we have so different understandings.
Peace
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Salaam ragingaijin
There is absolutely no reason that i take your understanding as truth. It is, of course, the same for you and you have no reason to take my understanding as truth.
You are not my Rabb. I am not your Rabb (in arabic, Rabba means educate, make grows).If you have read my past discussions, you'll note I tell everyone not to take me as a guide. Allah is Guide, Patron of the believers. So do not take my opinion on anything. Confirm the Truth for yourself.
In the End, we all stand before Allah and are only accountable for ourselves.
This is an example of what i cannot accept.
Proof that Masjid Al-aqsa is the one in Jerusalem is not made for me. Mentionning verse 17-1 doesn't change anything for me.That's fine by me. You choose what you want to believe.
I believe in evidence. The Quran is the Furqan - the Criterion - from which I hold everything under scrutiny. If I find it in the Quran, I expect to find it out in the world.
If man brings something from history and I find it in the Quran, then I believe it. If man brings something from history and I do not find it in the Quran, then I do not believe it.
If man brings something from science and I find it in the Quran, then I believe it. If man brings something from science and I do not find it in the Quran, then I suggest they keep searching.379 Not is it for a mortal that The God gives him the Book, and the judgment, and the oration, then he says, ?Be servants of me from besides The God,? instead of ?Be scholars (rabbaniyyeena) because you are teaching the Book and because you are studying.?
Now, if you are ready to go further, we have to do an agreement
The best dictionnary for understanding Quran is Quran Himself. To understand a word, the true meaning of a word, let's see how God use it in other contexts.
Quran comes first. Before arabic dictionnaries, before translators, before traditionnal beliefs, before our Cultural "IDENTITIES", before Torah and before Gospel.I agree; see my comments above.
I appreciate for example the link you made between Hajj and sukkot. I agree that is probably the same thing, but it seems that we don't agree on dates and on what to do (read 19-26 and type this phonetic transcription of sukkot in a google traductor. ).
The Quran was sent in Arabic, not Hebrew. Surah 122, 20113, 3928, 413, 4144, 427. 433
Striving to make the Quran fit the Bible is evidence against the person. Surah 548-50For example, you said "No where in the Quran is Hagar mentioned. ".
I agree.
However, Safa and marwa are related to Hagar history. If we reject Hagar, we can then reject traditional meaning of Safa and marwa.I agree. Which is why you need to go back and re-read what I posted.
Safa and Marwah are mountain ranges found between Midian and Mecca, mined for quartz and stone.2158 Surely the stones (alssafa) and the gems (almarwata) are from compositions of The God, so whoever is pilgrim of the House or its inhabitant, then no blame on him that roams with (bi) them (hima). And who volunteers better, so surely The God is Grateful, Knowing.
What is better in volunteering than gemstones and precious stones?
Feeding the poor and needy.Google 'mines midian quartz'.
Also look up the Arabic word (marwata).Even if we go with the translation for (bihima) as 'in them', we know the mountain ranges between the lands of Midian and Mecca still exist today, and are still mined for the precious stones and quarries for stonework. People travel in the mountain ranges - on the roads in the valleys between them - even today.
They are compositions of Allah because He created them.
Safa and marwa (2-15 are described as chaa'ir. But there is a big difference between you have to make Taouf with(or around) them and it is not forbidden to make taouf (with them).
On the other side, word chaa'ir is used in verses 5-2,22-32;22-36. Acoording to context where this word is used in other verses than 2-158, it seems that chaa'ir is related to animal lifestock.
safa has many meaning in arabic. It's root can mean clear, aligned or selected.
. .
.
.if you don't read arabic, this extract from arab dictionnary (( ة) shows that word SAFA is applied to animal lifestock and camels.
Marwa is from root rawa wich means drink. Marwa can then be understood as a drink or as animals to wich we give water to drink.I read Arabic.
The word (marwata) means 'quartz'. There were mines in Midian and in Mecca. Look it up.By this method of analyse, from a starting point that is based on quranic verses, we can find a coherent interpretation of two words.
There is great difference between animals and sacred mountains.You you have shown that by upholding a Lexicon instead of the Quran you are led astray by mistranslation.
By striving to make the Quran fit the Bible, you are led into error.2158 Indeed, the SAFA and the MARWA are chaa'ir of God. So whoever makes HAJJ to the BAYT, or is making OMRA, commits no error should he YATOUF BIHIMA. And whoever donates for goodness, then God is Thankful, knoweth
The last part of verse 2158, where safa and marwa appears seems to relates safa and marwa to acts of donation for goodness.
My conclusion is then SAFA and MARWA have nothing to do with mountains, neither sacred or not.Yet you cannot show what 'chaa'ir' means, using language to conceal the Truth and twisting it to suit your desires.
"Some of the Jews pervert words from their meanings saying, 'We have heard and we disobey' and 'Hear, and be thou not given to hear' and 'Observe us,' twisting with their tongues and traducing religion. If they had said, 'We have heard and obey' and 'Hear' and 'Regard us,' it would have been better for them, and more upright; but God has cursed them for their unbelief so they believe not except a few." Surah 446
Quran is itself a miracle. Both words and meaning are sealed.
What? Where does Allah say this? The Quran is sealed only to those who disbelieve.
26 Surely, those who disbelieve, alike to them whether you warn them or you warn them not, they believe not.
27 Seal of The God, on their hearts and on their hearing, and on their sight an enveloping, and for them a great punishment.By your own words you place yourself among the disbelievers.
When Chaytan comes and say "That word mean that thing", and the explanation of Chaytan succeds to enter in dictionnaries and geography, Quran make always possible to people attached to Quran to discover the truth.
22-52 Never did We send a messenger or a prophet before thee, but, when he framed a desire, Satan threw some (vanity) into his desire but Allah will cancel anything (vain) that Satan throws in, and Allah will confirm (and establish) His Signs for Allah is full of Knowledge and WisdomI will always be grateful to brother Ayman (http//www.free-minds.org/whats-name) to have shown me this methodology. But i disagree with brother ayman on many points simply because Brother Ayman, whose article are very interesting, is simply not my rabb.
Dear, raginggaijinI hope to you the same thing.
Even when we read Quran, we have to avoid meanings put by Chaytan in our mind.
I had the same beliefs as you. But i Changed my understanding of many concepts.
Really, it was not easy and i am not even sure to be on the straight path.There is many questions to wich i have no response.
For example, you quoted verse
28-27 He said "I intend to wed one of these my daughters to thee, on condition that thou serve me for eight HIJAJ; but if thou complete ten , it will be (grace) from thee. But I intend not to place thee under a difficulty thou wilt find me, indeed, if Allah wills, one of the righteous."My problem is that according Torah, Moses was with Jethro during 40 years (he went at Firaoun at 83). Wich leads that One HIJAJ equals 4 years ? ??? ?.
You prove you uphold the Bible over the Quran.
Where does Allah say Moses was with Jethro?
Allah does not.
So why do you uphold it?
The Quran is the Criterion - alfurqan - not the Bible.I don't know what does that mean but i cannot forget that Torah came before Quran and 28-27 can not be a correction of torah but a definition of something related to Hajj.
On the other side, you mentionned the three jewish feast. In verse 2-197, God says that Ashor HARAM are known. What "known" means ? I came to conclusion, after many readings, that it means "see what remain from my other books". But where is the fourth festival if Hajj is sukkot ?
my intuition is that the fourth one is what this thead call winter ramadan. Not because of ramadan but because of feast of Mithra who became Christmas. It is logical to believe that jews forget the fourth Shahr haram when they forget the Messiah. It is what a detective would call "the motive of the crime". But i cannot proove it.You see, dear raginggaijin, we believe in the same god, in the same book and we have so different understandings.
Peace
Yes, we do have very different understandings. And that's fine. I am not concerned with what others are following. I am only concerned about what I follow and how I do it.
I don't care what men think. I care what Allah knows. He is sufficient for me.And though I do not believe as you believe, and I do not uphold the teachings of the Jews and Christians, I still bid you peace.
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Thank you for confirming that I am correct in understanding they are different.
I agree; consistency is going to be throughout the Quran. It is error-free.
There are plural and singular usage of (sana)
Peace raginggaijin, we need to focus on exact meaning and check for consistency a few words at a time specifically these three highlighted which I've removed the dialectical markings and do a simple replace in below with definition and check for consistency within the context to see if it makes sense.
1 solar year = 365.242 days
1 lunar year = 354.367 days
1 season = ?296 and you will find them most greedy the humankind on life and from the those who associating partners loves one of them if upkeep (preservation) thousand snh/age(s) and not it remove him from the punishment that upkeep (preservation) and The God Seer in what they doing
2255 The God not deity except He The Living The Sustain-er of all not takes Him snh/age and not sleep to Him what in the skies/heavens and what in the earth from (who) possessor the one who can intercede with Him except by His permission He knows what between their hands (in front) and what behind them and not they encompass in a thing from His knowledge except in what Willed Extends His Throne the heavens and the earth and not tires Him guarding them both and He The Exalted The Great
2259 or like the one who pass by on a town and it empty on its trellises said how He gives life this The God after her/its death so caused him to die The God hundred Aam/year(s) furthermore resurrected him said how many stayed you? said stayed day for or some/part day said rather stayed you hundred Aam/year(s) so see to your food and drink and your drink not yt-snh/aged time and look to your donkey and to make you sign to the humankind and look to the bones how raise her/it furthermore cover it meat of so when has become distinct to him said knows that The God over each a thing Supreme
526 said so indeed it prohibited on them forty snh/age(s) they wander in the earth so not grieve over the folk the disobedient
7130 and surely We took family Pharaoh b-al-snyn/with the years (i.e. scarcity) and lack from the fruits that they who remember
928 O you the those who believing surely the polytheists unclean so not come near al-masjid/the mosque the haraam/prohibited after Aamhm/year theirs this one and if you fear poverty so shortly makes you independent The God from His bounty if willed indeed The God Knowing Wise
937 surely the postponing increase in the disbelief He lets stray with it the those who disbelieve they make it lawful Aama/year for and they make it forbidden Aama/year for to adjust count what prohibited The God so making lawful what prohibited The God ornament/beautified for them horrible their deeds and The God not guides the folk the disbelievers
9126 and not they see that they be tested in each Aam/year once or twice furthermore not they repent and not they who remember
1242 and said to the one who think that he survivor from them two mention me near your lord so made forget him the devil remembrance Lord his so he stayed in the prison several snyn/years
1247 said you will plant seven snyn/years as usual so what you harvest so leave it in its ears except little from what you eat 1248 furthermore comes from after that seven severe eat/consume what you advanced for them except little from what you stored 1249 furthermore comes from after that Aam/year in it will be given succor/relief the humankind and in it they will press
1513 not they believe in it and truly passed snh/age the ancients
1712 and We made the night and the daylight two signs so We erased sign the night and We made sign the daylight visible that you may seek bounty from your Lord and that you may know number al-snyn/the years and the count and every a thing We have explained it detailed
1811 so We cast over their ears in the cave snyn/years number of 1812 furthermore We raised them that We make evident which the two parties calculated of what stayed duration of
1825 and they stayed in their cave three hundred snyn/years and increase nine for (conjecture answered in next verse) 1826 say The God knows in what they stayed to Him unseen the heavens and the earth He sees in it and Hears not for them from besides Him from Guardian and not associate in His Commands anyone
2040 when was going your sister so she said shall I show you on from nurse him so We returned you to your mother that to cool her eyes and not grieve and you killed a soul so We saved you from the distress and We tempted you a temptation so you remained snyn/years with/in people Madyan furthermore you came on as much O Moses
2247 and they ask you to hasten in the punishment and never fails The God His Promise and indeed ywma/day for near your Lord like thousand snh/age(s) from what you reckon
23112 said how many stayed you in the earth number snyn/years?
2618 said did not we raise you among us a child and you remained among us from your life snyn/years
26205 indeed so have you seen indeed We let them enjoy snyn/years
2914 and surely We sent Noah to his folk so he stayed amongst them thousand snh/age(s) except fifty Aama/year(s) for so seized them the flood and they unjust
304 in several snyn/years to God the directive from before and from after and that day rejoice the believers
3114 and We enjoined the human to his parents carried him his mother weakness on feeble and his separation in Aamyn/two year that be thankful to Me and to your parents to Me the destiny
325 He regulates the directive from the sky to the earth furthermore ascends to Him in day/era it is its measure thousand snh/age(s) from what you reckon
4615 and We enjoined the human to his parents goodness carried him his mother unwillingly and gave birth to him unwillingly and carried him and his separation thirty shra/cycle for until when reached peak and reaches forty snh/age(s) said Lord grant me that I be grateful Your grace the one blessed to me and on my parents and that to make/I do righteous of which please You and correct for me in my offspring I indeed perish to thee and indeed I from the peace makers
701 asked a questioner of punishment and real
702 to the disbelievers is not to it any preventer
703 from The God owner the stairways
704 ascend the angels and the spirit to Him in day/era it is its measure fifty thousand snh/age(s)
705 so be patient patience of beautiful
706 indeed they see it far of
707 and We see it near of