Does Islam support a Capitalist or a Socialist system?
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Salam everyone and especially Confused
Capitalism and socialism cannot be compared, just like apples and pears cannot be compared. They have two completely different agendas, one is an economic system and one is an ideological system. Where is this ying-yang comparison coming from?.....I blame America....
Coming from a social democratic country I can with my entire heart say that if one can interpret the Quran into a political manifesto it will certainly be social democracy, at least the type that I live in.
I agree with Edip. -
Salaam Emil,
your conclusion that Islam demands a socialist democracy is based upon what invention, your opinion? Your intuition? Your exposure to a single social paradigm makes your case?
You conclude an unlawful system and claim it as Islamic, I realise my views are not popular but they are based in fact, its a shame those who pretend to want to understand the true Islam don't apply reason and open their minds to other paradigms than the only one they have experienced.
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Salaam Emil,
your conclusion that Islam demands a socialist democracy is based upon what invention, your opinion? Your intuition? Your exposure to a single social paradigm makes your case?
You conclude an unlawful system and claim it as Islamic, I realise my views are not popular but they are based in fact, its a shame those who pretend to want to understand the true Islam don't apply reason and open their minds to other paradigms than the only one they have experienced.
Salam brother
Please read my post again a bit more carefully. Did I really claim social democracy as islamic.......Did I claim Islam demands social democracy..... I said if one can interpret the Quran into some political manifesto......Key word is if, brother. I have no intention into ever mixing my faith with politics. But if one should, then they would find social democracy sharing the largest amount of similarities with islam than any other kind of political ideology. But just for saying the most human-like animal is the monkey does not make the monkey into a almost-human, I guess you follow what I mean.
I call it as I see it, brother. The countries where I have found a strong solidarity towards and amongst the people, where money is not the only barometer for success, where intellect not wealth governs the choice of education, where people are not afraid to speak their mind..........have been exclusively under a social democratic government.........I find these attributes very islamic. Call it unlawful if you want, I call it total nonsense to ever categorise the word of Allah into a man-made political ideology.
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Salaam Emil,
I agree Islam is utterly and completely void of a 'POLITICAL' system, it is both unlawful to have such a parasitic imposition and comprehensively un-Islamic.
Islam was never a religion, it was never designed to be subverted to the worship of a sky God, the adoration of an invention of one's mind, the blind faith of sheep and thoughtless fools. Islam was designed as a Deen, a way to exist, a society based upon the models it demands, sadly if you view Islam as an expansion of the death cult of Christianity or Judaism your mind shuts down to reason, you see only what religion dictates.
What I have been explaining on my website is beginning to be applied, and it works, natural law is the most powerful tool you have, it is designed to form society, in fact natural law is the basis of all society, this is why in the modern world we have not got a society, we have a corporate culture, and a corporation acts as a clinical psychopath, it has no regard for mankind, it cares for only one thing increasing profit, it burns the earth, poisons the seas, pollutes the air, starves the poor, exploits the vulnerable, it act without conscience as it is an incorporeal entity, the invention of charter, the mere creation of legislation, utterly unlawful.
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Salaam Emil,
I agree Islam is utterly and completely void of a 'POLITICAL' system, it is both unlawful to have such a parasitic imposition and comprehensively un-Islamic.
Islam was never a religion, it was never designed to be subverted to the worship of a sky God, the adoration of an invention of one's mind, the blind faith of sheep and thoughtless fools. Islam was designed as a Deen, a way to exist, a society based upon the models it demands, sadly if you view Islam as an expansion of the death cult of Christianity or Judaism your mind shuts down to reason, you see only what religion dictates.
What I have been explaining on my website is beginning to be applied, and it works, natural law is the most powerful tool you have, it is designed to form society, in fact natural law is the basis of all society, this is why in the modern world we have not got a society, we have a corporate culture, and a corporation acts as a clinical psychopath, it has no regard for mankind, it cares for only one thing increasing profit, it burns the earth, poisons the seas, pollutes the air, starves the poor, exploits the vulnerable, it act without conscience as it is an incorporeal entity, the invention of charter, the mere creation of legislation, utterly unlawful.
Salam Abdun
You say it very well brother, I will make sure to check out your website.
One of the best expressions I've heard lately is "God does not want you to believe in Him, God wants you to believe in his Way." Can't remember who said it though....I do not believe in Satan, but I keep telling those who do that he will not make you stop following God, he will trick you into thinking you follow God but in fact you are following Satan. Pollution is a good example .........How we have become dependant on a substance that will eventually kill everything, and the cherry on top is the fact that the largest suppliers and the largest consumers consider themselves to be the biggest believers of God.
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AOA
natural law is the most powerful tool you have, it is designed to form society, in fact natural law is the basis of all society
Could you please explain a little further. What is a natural law and how it is the basis of all society?
Regards -
Salaam Stillearning,
natural law is simple, it is the foundation of all law, everywhere on earth, it is based upon reason, it is known as the law of the land, prescriptive law, the unwritten law, but it is basically based upon two simple laws that must be kept in mind when you create a society, they must always remain the base.
Do all you have agreed to do.
Do not encroach upon another man or woman, or their property.Although really the 'or their property' bit is within the logic of the first part of do not encroach.
From these two simple laws all law flows, and as extension society.
If you go on my website I have written the reasoned understanding of natural law, and the concept of allodial rights of use, which is an integral part of the law, I have also explained many of the frauds, like ownership, legislation, democracy, corporation, trusts, etc.
Contract of community
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/178/235/
Allodium Claim
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/
Onion of ownership
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/194/231/
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Salaam Stillearning,
natural law is simple, it is the foundation of all law, everywhere on earth, it is based upon reason, it is known as the law of the land, prescriptive law, the unwritten law, but it is basically based upon two simple laws that must be kept in mind when you create a society, they must always remain the base.
Do all you have agreed to do.
Do not encroach upon another man or woman, or their property.Although really the 'or their property' bit is within the logic of the first part of do not encroach.
From these two simple laws all law flows, and as extension society.
If you go on my website I have written the reasoned understanding of natural law, and the concept of allodial rights of use, which is an integral part of the law, I have also explained many of the frauds, like ownership, legislation, democracy, corporation, trusts, etc.
Contract of community
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/178/235/
Allodium Claim
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/197/239/
Onion of ownership
http//servantofthelight.com/content/view/194/231/
Salaam Abdun,
Thanks for the links.
Are you intending to reference your articles contents to the Quran? I note that you've done this for a minority of all your website articles. After all
Among the people, there are those who uphold baseless Hadith, and thus divert others from the path of Allah without knowledge, and take it in vain. These have incurred a shameful retribution.
Peace.
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Salaam Abdun,
Your response evades my question and seems hypocritical. If you will choose not to support your claims with Quranic reference, this will not be different to the majority who "....uphold baseless Hadith...." . Why post or maintain a website, if you are seeking to show others Truth, then surely this would entail justifying your claims?
Peace.
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Salaam Str41ghtw4y,
its self evident from the Islamic concepts, the simple concepts support all I write, like Allah is the owner of all creation, therefore we cannot own anything but what we ourselves create, so the earth and her resources belong to Allah alone as we never created it, we only have a right of use. Allah is the only sovereign, not even Muhammad can be your sovereign, this removes all forms of imposed authority, in every walk of life.
It needs no great effort to see the concepts of Islam, like the concept of no compulsion which demands you do no impose on those around you with your dictates and beliefs.
Like I say follow what you wish, I am not obligated to hold anyones hand and lead them through the concepts of Islam, as people refuse what is difficult to accept as true, and much of what I write is hard for most to accept.
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Salaam Str41ghtw4y,
its self evident from the Islamic concepts, the simple concepts support all I write, like Allah is the owner of all creation, therefore we cannot own anything but what we ourselves create, so the earth and her resources belong to Allah alone as we never created it, we only have a right of use. Allah is the only sovereign, not even Muhammad can be your sovereign, this removes all forms of imposed authority, in every walk of life.
It needs no great effort to see the concepts of Islam, like the concept of no compulsion which demands you do no impose on those around you with your dictates and beliefs.
Like I say follow what you wish, I am not obligated to hold anyones hand and lead them through the concepts of Islam, as people refuse what is difficult to accept as true, and much of what I write is hard for most to accept.
Salaam Abdun,
Clearly we all follow what we wish - but this latter part of your answer digresses from the point I have raised which relates to providing justifications from the Quran to support a point of view. Note that I'm clearly not making any specific claims/counter-claims to the content of your posts, or making a statement of my position with regard to the content. I am merely pointing out that your purported articles of 'truth' simply cannot be published as 'truth' in the way they are currently written, without references.
Quite revealing is your use of statements such as 'self evident', 'simple concepts', 'refuse what is difficult to accept as true' etc in order to justify your claims rather than Quranic references. It amounts to you posting a baseless opinion - which is fine, and in keeping with what the majority do. There are many good blogs out there, yours is one of them. It is a pity that you seem to equate effective argumentation and justification as 'hand-holding'. Particularly as I see great potential in transforming many of the articles on your site into ones with supported claims of truth - or at least pointers to Truth.
However, as you say, there is no compulsion.
Peace.
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Salaam Str41ghtw4y,
my main aversion to sighting Qur'anic references is in the translations now in common use, I do not think they are very accurate, and so cannot be used as reference, an in-depth and fully referenced translation based upon the ancient Arabic and void of all hadith definitions would be a good source of reference, and if that was available I'd happily add verses to the essays.
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Salam all,
I believe that Capitalism is the only system that can be supported by the Quran. This is because I don't see anywhere in God's book allowing certain people (governments) to take money from everyone else and then "properly" distribute it among the masses. This for one is saying that those certain people in control know what is best for the masses and also are morally superior and won't use that money to benefit themselves in any way.
Also, as a free person, let's say I decide I don't want to give the government my money. How will you take this money from me? By gunpoint like the IRS??? I think not.
True Free Market Capitalism is the only system that works. Let people EASILY start businesses, trade and make money. Let companies fail and then start all over again. Economic freedom leads to social freedom and without it individual liberties don't mean as much.
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Salam all,
I believe that Capitalism is the only system that can be supported by the Quran. This is because I don't see anywhere in God's book allowing certain people (governments) to take money from everyone else and then "properly" distribute it among the masses. This for one is saying that those certain people in control know what is best for the masses and also are morally superior and won't use that money to benefit themselves in any way.
Also, as a free person, let's say I decide I don't want to give the government my money. How will you take this money from me? By gunpoint like the IRS??? I think not.
True Free Market Capitalism is the only system that works. Let people EASILY start businesses, trade and make money. Let companies fail and then start all over again. Economic freedom leads to social freedom and without it individual liberties don't mean as much.
Salam Amouna
What is the opposite of capitalism? You describe the opposite as where the government takes your money and distributes it evenly among the masses. How on earth can an economic system tax you?
You make it sound like capitalism equals freedom which is unbelievably not true. How can an economic system guarantee you freedom?I agree with you that capitalism as an economic system is Quranic because we are to have free trade, but yet again I hear that capitalism= social freedom which is not right. Please give me one country where the social freedom is a result of the economic system of capitalism and I stand corrected.
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AOA
natural law is simple, it is the foundation of all law, everywhere on earth, it is based upon reason, it is known as the law of the land, prescriptive law, the unwritten law, but it is basically based upon two simple laws that must be kept in mind when you create a society, they must always remain the base.
Sorry but I dont understand what you mean by 'ntural law' therefore cannot comprehend how it can be foundation of all law.
Do all you have agreed to do.
Do you mean some kind of contract? Who does one agree to do with?. Is it a moral and ethical agreement or another? Sounds good but not sure what it means in prctical terms.
Do not encroach upon another man or woman, or their property.
Most systems would claim to do this.
If you go on my website I have written the reasoned understanding of natural law, and the concept of allodial rights of use, which is an integral part of the law, I have also explained many of the frauds, like ownership, legislation, democracy, corporation, trusts, etc.
Sorry I cannot understand your reasoning or your explanations. They are many vague and generalised statements which explain very little. Perhaps using a simple example to illustrate your point(s) may help.
Regards
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Tyler Durden, I feel for you.
When Obama won, at my university there was much celebration because all the kids were excited about "change."
But I knew better. What Obama had said was nothing but empty rhetoric. And his idea of change was pathetically superficial.
There was only one politician willing to talk about the REAL issues back in 2008, and he is at it again in 2012 - and that's Ron Paul.
It is amazing the support he is now garnering from college students and other young people. I think many of them are disillusioned Obama supporters like yourself.
Hope you agree Ron Paul's our man this coming election.