Caliphate system and Slavery
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Is this the ayat that you are looking for?
1643 And We did not send any except men before you whom We inspired, so ask the people who have received the Reminder if you do not know.
This is what other people are doing or earlier people did. They don't understand some of the ayat in the Quran and they went to ask other people they think able to give them the explanation. From here, this ayat, starts all the ulama, imam, mazhab etc.
The verse you mentioned was concerning the pagans of Mecca and their asking why God does not send angels and sends humans as messengers. Here the Koran says to look into the previous scriptures and see if God send anything but humans as messengers. Apparently the pagans of Mecca found the notion of God sending humans as strange. Humans who very much looked normal and ordinary.
Thats what I did and looked at the previous scriptures, however I do not think that a Koranist state can ever rely on anything except explicit verses of the Koran when it comes to anything that concerns the general public. But i do rely on previous scriptures as better understanding.
There is nothing wrong for a Koranist to accept any source if it does not contradict the Koran. But only explicit verses of the Koran is binding.
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The verse you mentioned was concerning the pagans of Mecca and their asking why God does not send angels and sends humans as messengers. Here the Koran says to look into the previous scriptures and see if God send anything but humans as messengers. Apparently the pagans of Mecca found the notion of God sending humans as strange. Humans who very much looked normal and ordinary.
Are you referring to verse 1643? If yes, show me the relation with Mecca's pagan?
Thats what I did and looked at the previous scriptures, however I do not think that a Koranist state can ever rely on anything except explicit verses of the Koran when it comes to anything that concerns the general public. But i do rely on previous scriptures as better understanding.
There is nothing wrong for a Koranist to accept any source if it does not contradict the Koran. But only explicit verses of the Koran is binding.
So there is nothing wrong also for the rest of the sects to accept any source if it does not contradict the Koran.
Back to the seriousness of Al-Quran to abolish slavery. I'm not going to ask what are the punishments Al-Quran had imposed for those who capture, sell and keep slaves but I want to ask why there is no punishment at all for these wrongdoers or criminals in Al-Quran?
Unless you disagree criminals need to be punished in this life to keep the order in the community then you don't have to respond to this question and the next one.
Also what are the suitable punishments Quranists - as a group not individual - want to impose on these wrongdoers?
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Are you referring to verse 1643? If yes, show me the relation with Mecca's pagan?
So there is nothing wrong also for the rest of the sects to accept any source if it does not contradict the Koran.
Back to the seriousness of Al-Quran to abolish slavery. I'm not going to ask what are the punishments Al-Quran had imposed for those who capture, sell and keep slaves but I want to ask why there is no punishment at all for these wrongdoers or criminals in Al-Quran?
Unless you disagree criminals need to be punished in this life to keep the order in the community then you don't have to respond to this question and the next one.
Also what are the suitable punishments Quranists - as a group not individual - want to impose on these wrongdoers?
16.43-44. And before thee also the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message;that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
Here it says just like we sent before you the message we also sent you the message. Those who possess the message is generally the Jews and Christians.
Of course the prophet of the Koran could not be told to ask himself. so the message here, or rather the zikr here is the previous scriptures. The Koran refers to the previous scriptures as a zikr, reminder. We are told
5.14 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
We are also told
10.93-94 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best it was after knowledge had been granted to them, that they fell into schisms. Verily Allah will judge between them as to the schisms amongst them, on the Day of Judgment. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord so be in no wise of those in doubt.
As far as punishment of slavery, any punishment in the Koran must fulfil certain criteria. It must be a punishment for a crime that someone has inflicted on someone else, it must be a punishment that fits the crime (eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth) and it must be a punishment inflicted on the person who made the crime and not on someon else as the Koran tells us not let someone else carry another person's burden (no tribalism) and it must be crime someone commited intentionally. If its not intentional than the person who was wronged has a chance to forgive as an act of charity.
These are the legal framework laid out in the Koran. Any punsihment must fit the crime. The Koran rejects preventive punishment as the Sunnis and Shias do. Preventive punishment usually takes the form of an eye for an eye lash and a tooth for a jaw. Since the goal here is not justice but fear. The Koran orders justice. Justice based on qist( equity). This is why the symbol of justice is always the scale. Equal proportion.
Anyways Sunnis attach slavery with prisoners of war. The Koran gave two options for prisoners of war (freedom or ransom) and considered prisoners of war and act of charity.
765.-11 As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Kafur,- A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance. They perform (their) vows, and they fear a Day whose evil flies far and wide. And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,- (Saying),"We feed you for the sake of Allah alone no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks. "We only fear a Day of distressful Wrath from the side of our Lord." But Allah will deliver them from the evil of that Day, and will shed over them a Light of Beauty and (blissful) Joy.
Can u imagine then selling captives as slaves? Sunnis even allowed execution of a captive if the dictator desires. Its a dictatorial sect establishmed by dictators for the dictators. It has nothing to with Islam.
Treatment of prisoners-of-war in Islam
Prisoners should be detained until it is decided what is the best move. The ruler of the Muslims should detain prisoners until he decides what is in the Muslims? best interests. He may ransom them for money, or exchange them for Muslim prisoners, or release them for nothing in return, or distribute them among the Muslims as slaves, or kill the men, but not the women and children, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade killing the latter. The purpose behind detaining prisoners is so that the Muslims may be protected from their evil. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to enjoin the Muslims to treat prisoners well, whereas the Romans and those who came before them the Assyrians and Pharaohs, all used to put out their prisoners? eyes with hot irons, and flay them alive, feeding their skins to dogs, such that the prisoners preferred death to
http//islamqa.info/en/ref/13241
The blue parts are from the Koran, the red from the Sunnah.
Need I say more?
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16.43-44. And before thee also the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. (We sent them) with Clear Signs and Books of dark prophecies; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message;that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.
Here it says just like we sent before you the message we also sent you the message. Those who possess the message is generally the Jews and Christians.
Of course the prophet of the Koran could not be told to ask himself. so the message here, or rather the zikr here is the previous scriptures. The Koran refers to the previous scriptures as a zikr, reminder. We are told
5.14 From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done.
We are also told
10.93-94 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best it was after knowledge had been granted to them, that they fell into schisms. Verily Allah will judge between them as to the schisms amongst them, on the Day of Judgment. If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord so be in no wise of those in doubt.
My question related to this issue was;
Are you referring to verse 1643? If yes, show me the relation with Mecca's pagan?
As far as punishment of slavery, any punishment in the Koran must fulfil certain criteria. It must be a punishment for a crime that someone has inflicted on someone else, it must be a punishment that fits the crime (eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth) and it must be a punishment inflicted on the person who made the crime and not on someon else as the Koran tells us not let someone else carry another person's burden (no tribalism) and it must be crime someone commited intentionally. If its not intentional than the person who was wronged has a chance to forgive as an act of charity.
These are the legal framework laid out in the Koran. Any punsihment must fit the crime. The Koran rejects preventive punishment as the Sunnis and Shias do. Preventive punishment usually takes the form of an eye for an eye lash and a tooth for a jaw. Since the goal here is not justice but fear. The Koran orders justice. Justice based on qist( equity). This is why the symbol of justice is always the scale. Equal proportion.
Anyways Sunnis attach slavery with prisoners of war. The Koran gave two options for prisoners of war (freedom or ransom) and considered prisoners of war and act of charity.
765.-11 As to the Righteous, they shall drink of a Cup (of Wine) mixed with Kafur,- A Fountain where the Devotees of Allah do drink, making it flow in unstinted abundance. They perform (their) vows, and they fear a Day whose evil flies far and wide. And they feed, for the love of Allah, the indigent, the orphan, and the captive,- (Saying),"We feed you for the sake of Allah alone no reward do we desire from you, nor thanks. "We only fear a Day of distressful Wrath from the side of our Lord." But Allah will deliver them from the evil of that Day, and will shed over them a Light of Beauty and (blissful) Joy.
Can u imagine then selling captives as slaves? Sunnis even allowed execution of a captive if the dictator desires. Its a dictatorial sect establishmed by dictators for the dictators. It has nothing to with Islam.
Treatment of prisoners-of-war in Islam
Prisoners should be detained until it is decided what is the best move. The ruler of the Muslims should detain prisoners until he decides what is in the Muslims? best interests. He may ransom them for money, or exchange them for Muslim prisoners, or release them for nothing in return, or distribute them among the Muslims as slaves, or kill the men, but not the women and children, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) forbade killing the latter. The purpose behind detaining prisoners is so that the Muslims may be protected from their evil. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to enjoin the Muslims to treat prisoners well, whereas the Romans and those who came before them the Assyrians and Pharaohs, all used to put out their prisoners? eyes with hot irons, and flay them alive, feeding their skins to dogs, such that the prisoners preferred death to
http//islamqa.info/en/ref/13241
The blue parts are from the Koran, the red from the Sunnah.
Again, my questions related to this issue were;
..... why there is no punishment at all for these wrongdoers or criminals in Al-Quran?
Unless you disagree criminals need to be punished in this life to keep the order in the community then you don't have to respond to this question and the next one.
Also what are the suitable punishments Quranists - as a group not individual - want to impose on these wrongdoers?
Need I say more?
I'm not sure. You are avoiding my questions. We don't have neutral judge here and it is hard to value your arguments or comments.
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Actaully it did say about murder.(intentional murder).
5.27-34 Recite to them the truth of the story of the two sons of Adam. Behold! they each presented a sacrifice (to Allah. It was accepted from one, but not from the other. Said the latter "Be sure I will slay thee." "Surely," said the former, "(Allah) doth accept of the sacrifice of those who are righteous. If thou dost stretch thy hand against me, to slay me, it is not for me to stretch my hand against thee to slay thee for I do fear Allah, the cherisher of the worlds. "For me, I intend to let thee draw on thyself my sin as well as thine, for thou wilt be among the companions of the fire, and that is the reward of those who do wrong." The (selfish) soul of the other led him to the murder of his brother he murdered him, and became (himself) one of the lost ones. Then Allah sent a raven, who scratched the ground, to show him how to hide the shame of his brother. "Woe is me!" said he; "Was I not even able to be as this raven, and to hide the shame of my brother?" then he became full of regrets- . On that account We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; Except for those who repent before they fall into your power in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
For murder the law of soul for soul or at the minimum exile from the community (life imprisonment)
For unintentional (manslaughter)
2.178 -179 O ye who believe! the law of equality is prescribed to you in cases of murder the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the woman for the woman. But if any remission is made by the brother of the slain, then grant any reasonable demand, and compensate him with handsome gratitude, this is a concession and a Mercy from your Lord. After this whoever exceeds the limits shall be in grave penalty. In the Law of Equality there is (saving of) Life to you, o ye men of understanding; that ye may restrain yourselves.
4.92. Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due) If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running by way of repentance to Allah. for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.
There are some who interpret verse 5.27 -34 as talking about fighting. However fighting in the Koran uses the verb qital and not harb. But what I believe the Koran is saying is not war in the meaning of fighting but oppossing as the war on drugs or the war on poverty etc. If it was fighting than we are talking about prisoners of war and this the Koran has talked about already and given either freedom or ransom of some sort as the conditions to deal with prisoners of war.Th fact that the verse came in the context of muder and the fact that it talked about capital punishment being the highest sealing tells us its about murder since any other issue than murder can not be punished by capital punishment or esle that will violate the law of eye for an eye.
We are also told the Israelites violated this law by insisting that only jews deserve eye for an eye but for gentiles than its an eye for a thousand eye and a teeth for a thousand teeth.
The Talmud (i.e., the Babylonian Talmud) text of Sanhedrin 37a restricts the duty to save life to saving only Jewish lives.
The book on Hebrew censorship, written by Jews themselves (Hesronot Ha-shas), notes that some Talmud texts use the universalist phrase
"Whoever destroys the life of a single human being...it is as if he had destroyed an entire world; and whoever preserves the life of a single human being ...it is as if he had preserved an entire world."
However, Hesronot Ha-shas points out that these are not the authentic words of the original Talmud.
In other words, the preceding universalist rendering is not the authentic text of the Talmud and thus, for example, this universalist version which Steven Spielberg in his famous movie, Schindler's List attributed to the Talmud (and which became the motto of the movie on posters and in advertisements), is a hoax and constitutes propaganda intended to give a humanistic gloss to a Talmud which is, in its essence, racist and chauvinist hate literature.
In the authentic, original Talmud text it states that "whoever preserves a single soul of Israel, it is as if he had preserved an entire world" (emphasis supplied). The authentic Talmud text sanctions only the saving of Jewish lives.
http//www.revisionisthistory.org/talmudtruth.html
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Sex slaves is one of the most degrading and disgusting things honored by hadith. Does this sound Godly? God does Godly things.
Just makes my blood beyond boil... ughh!
Salaam
Please read this article see the difference between sheltered girls(your right hand possesses) and these poor girls of today Bangladesh?s teenage brothels hold steroid secret
http//www.dawn.com/2012/03/19/bangladeshs-teenage-brothels-hold-dark-steroid-secret.html
peace -
From the shira and hadith.. which are considered as 'authentic' by some people... yes he did...
And it is why Islamic State are trading sex slaves. The lighter their skin and eyes, the more expensive they are. Blue eyed sex slaves are the most expensive slaves the Mujahideen of the Islamic state can buy.
I want a blue-eyed Yazidi ISIS slave market
PARIS Kidnapped, beaten, sold and raped ISIS is running an international market in Iraq where Christian and Yazidi women are sold as sexual slaves, a teenager who escaped told AFP Tuesday.
Jinan, 18, a Yazidi, was captured in early 2014 and held by ISIS militants for three months before she managed to flee, she said on a visit to Paris ahead of the publication Friday of a book about her ordeal.
Seized as ISIS fighters swept through northern regions inhabited by the Yazidi religious minority, Jinan was moved around between several locations before being bought by two men, a former policeman and an imam.
She described to AFP how she and other Yazidi prisoners were locked up in a house.
?They tortured us, tried to forcefully convert us. If we refused we were beaten, chained outdoors in the sun, forced to drink water with dead mice in it. Sometimes they threatened to torture us with electricity,? she said.
http//www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2015/Sep-03/313751-i-want-a-blue-eyed-yazidi-isis-slave-market.ashxU.S. hostage Kayla Mueller had her fingernails pulled out before being repeatedly raped by ISIS leader Yazidi sex slave reveals torment of aid worker's harrowing final months as the secret wife of al-Baghdadi
Muna revealed ISIS jihadis ripped out Kayla's finger nails last August
Terror chief then told her that he would take her as his wife 'by force'
But Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi feared his others wives finding out so he kept Kayla a secret
Yazidi sex slave Muna was also horrifically beaten by al-Baghdadi
Miss Mueller died following an airstrike on Baghdadi's deputy's home after refusing to escape alongside Muna because she feared being beheadedA Yazidi woman kidnapped and detained as Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi's personal sex slave has told how the ISIS leader repeatedly raped U.S. hostage Kayla Mueller ? who he had taken as a secret bride.
Speaking to MailOnline, blue-eyed Muna, 16, revealed that after his depraved jihadi cohorts ripped out Miss Mueller's finger nails, Baghdadi told her that she would become his wife 'by force'.
But despite his image as the world's most notorious terrorist, Baghdadi was terrified that his other wives would find out about the 26-year-old aid worker, so insisted she was imprisoned at the home of his deputy Abu Sayaff.
Miss Mueller, 26, was apparently killed in an airstrike on a house in Syria earlier this year.
Muna's harrowing account of her time as a sex slave gives unprecedented insight into the life, cruelty and daily routines of elusive terror chief Baghdadi, who has only made one public appearance since he declared himself caliph - leader of the world's Muslims - during a sermon in Mosul last summer.
http//i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/09/09/13/25684A5100000578-3227607-image-m-29_1441800976534.jpghttp//www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3227607/U-S-hostage-Kayla-Mueller-fingernails-pulled-repeatedly-raped-ISIS-leader-Yazidi-sex-slave-reveals-torment-aid-worker-s-harrowing-final-months-forced-secret-wife-Al-Baghdadi.html
https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBvVCQybu0s
This vile behaviour of sex slaves(MMA), pedophilia, misogyny and religious apatheid(Jizya tax, convert or die) is 100% supported by the books of Bukhari & Co and their false interpretation of Quran. The Islamic State is 100% Islamic. They are true Muslims. The Moderates seem to cherry pick verses whenever it suites them.
A peaceful religion is an oxymoron. Islam can go to hell. -
Hello,
I have a question about the Caliphate system - is it specified in the Quran? According to other Muslims, it is permissible if a Caliph choses to fight disbelievers if they refuse Islam or paying jizyah as subdied dhimmis to keep their religion as an alternative - do you agree? And slavery - the Islamic slave trade in Asia and Africa saw the enslavement of millions simply on the basis that they were not Muslims. Most of the female slaves were used as sex slaves. Some Caliphs required children to be given as jizyah. Is it permissible according to the Quran in your view?
Peace to all.
dude it's always slavery or prostitution who isn't simply out for themselves? these laws hold that knowledge true lovers simply don't know or don't want to know (don't want to think that way).
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You are answering a post from 2012 and a dude is usually a male.
Be safe
Amenuel