Which are the four Sacred Months according to Quran ???
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"Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard . (Quran 936)
Salaam,
Well, As I'm an Ex-Salafi , we "used" to have a field day with Quran-alone guys by asking them this question. -[
But Now, I, Myself want to know about this issue so that I can answer my salafi friendsThanks
May, Ar-Rahman, Guide & Keep us all on the right path pr
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Peace,
Guys, This is not done .. I asked a really simple question and its been 10 days already and not a single answer from all the free minds of this world ?? hmm
or shall I assume that those damn mullas were and are right about the Quran-alone believers ??
GOD, I'm really feeling embarrassed in front of my SALAFI Friends who are nagging me with the question every day -[
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What makes you think that them being sacred would matter to humanity in order to be a muslim?
It might not be necessary to know that
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@ MASOOMboy
I sent those links to find out what calendars and Islamic calender are all about ?Then to know why they haven?t been mentioned by name in the Quran........Anyhow the 4 Sacred months according to the Submitters areZulhijjah, Muharram, Safar, Rabi I .
Peace
Asana -
Salam Masoom,
There was no clear question in your post, which is why it may have been skipped.
The 4 restricted months are sequential and begin with the first month of the year. The first month of the year is the month of Ramadhan that coincides with the winter solsctice (longest night of the year).
Regards,
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What makes you think that them being sacred would matter to humanity in order to be a muslim?
It might not be necessary to know thatSalam Kaiokenred, Allah is clearly saying to us "therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them" I take it as a command and want to know about those "restricted " months.
here was no clear question in your post, which is why it may have been skipped
Salam Bro Layth, I have mentioned my question directly in the post subject, Don't know how much more clear I should be ??? hmm
Anyhow the 4 Sacred months according to the Submitters areZulhijjah, Muharram, Safar, Rabi I
The 4 restricted months are sequential and begin with the first month of the year. The first month of the year is the month of Ramadhan that coincides with the winter solsctice (longest night of the year).
Still we have got contradiction and no direct quote from Quran what so ever, Kindly quote at least something related to my question or even a small clue from Quran as I only believe in Quran pr
Thanks )
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Dear Masoom,
Still we have got contradiction and no direct quote from Quran what so ever, Kindly quote at least something related to my question or even a small clue from Quran as I only believe in Quran
The answer you are looking for is in Sura 9.
The 4 restricted months are sequential (92-5)
The 4 restricted months ended with the approach of the heat (981)
Regards,
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Brother Layth,
I understand that the four restricted months are sequential (Quran 91-5)
But regarding those months ending with the approach of heat ((981) I have few doubts,- Are those 4 restricted months are same globally?
2)Or we would have to assume the approach of heat as per Arabian climate ?
I'm asking you because the approach of heat differs from country to country across the world ??
peace pr
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Brother Layth,
I understand that the four restricted months are sequential (Quran 91-5)
But regarding those months ending with the approach of heat ((981) I have few doubts,- Are those 4 restricted months are same globally?
2)Or we would have to assume the approach of heat as per Arabian climate ?
I'm asking you because the approach of heat differs from country to country across the world ??
peace pr
Additional question to Lyath
3. Ramadhan in Hijra' calendar can be on any season (spring, summer, autumn or winter) within 50 Gregorian or Chinese calendar years period thus affecting the 'longest night of the year' and 'approach of heat'. Which calendar you refer to or how you do your calender calculation? -
Salaam Asana,
Thanks for the info but we don't have Zulhijjah as a month mentioned in Quran.
moreover its been proved time and again by Quran-alone submitters that Hajj can be preformed in any of those 4 restricted months.
If I were to accept your line of months then more or else I'm being forced to believe indirectly in those hadiths/history of mullas specially Mr. Tabari and if you still want to go with the history then either we have hadith or so called "Islamic historian" telling us that this are the 12 names of each month,
1.MUHARRAM 2. SAFAR 3.RABI-AL-AWWAL 4. RABI-AL-THANI
5. JUMADA-AL-AWWAL 6. JUMADA-AL-THANI 7. RAJAB 8. SHABAN 9. RAMADAN
10. SHAWWAL 11. ZUL-QAADAH 12. ZUL-HIJJAH)
My question to you is how can we be 100% sure about those 12 names in the 1st place ?? Maybe they got it all wrong or the least they could have mixed them up with pagan names & -
This thread is slowly sliding out from the attention. Put it back to where it belong so that Quranists keep on thinking about it. I thought everything in Quran are big.
Verse 2461 There is no blame upon the blind, nor is there any blame upon the crippled, nor is there any blame upon the ill, nor is there any blame upon yourselves, if you eat at your homes, or the homes of your fathers, or the homes of your mothers, or the homes of your brothers, or the homes of your sisters, or the homes of your uncles, or the homes of your aunts, or the homes of your mothers brothers, or the homes of your mothers sisters, or that which you possess their keys, or that of your friends. You commit nothing wrong by eating together or as individuals. When you enter any home, you shall greet each other a greeting from God that is blessed and good. God thus explains the revelations for you that you may comprehend.
I like this where-to-eat verse. Something that most of the people never care but written in great detail.
Also, please get back to me the exact time for Ramadhan to appear respect to Gregorian calendar at least for year 2012, 2013 and 2014.
Example For Year 2012, 1st of Ramadhan will be on 21st July, 2012.
Quranist should have this by now as fasting in Ramadhan is an obligation.
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"Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard . (Quran 936)
Salaam,
Well, As I'm an Ex-Salafi , we "used" to have a field day with Quran-alone guys by asking them this question. -[
But Now, I, Myself want to know about this issue so that I can answer my salafi friends )Thanks
May, Ar-Rahman, Guide & Keep us all on the right path pr
Quote
The Sacred Calendar
The dates of the weekly Sabbath, Festivals and Holy Days are set according to a sacred calendar that is nowhere fully detailed in the Bible. Rather, the Bible assumes that the sacred calendar exists, that it has been preserved accurately, and that those faithful to God know about it. Otherwise, when would God's servants know when to proclaim these days or to keep them?
We know God entrusted His "oracles" in Hebrew (including the commands regarding the Sabbath, Festivals and Holy Days) to the Jews. This means that God must also have preserved the sacred calendar through the Jews -- despite themselves, if necessary (Romans 31-4).
The first step in proving this is a comparison of the principles behind our present sacred calendar with the calendrical principles that the Bible itself outlines. Once we do this, we may know (the Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible and likeminded sources notwithstanding) that there is such a thing in principle as a "biblical" calendar in all essentials, the same "sacred calendar" that we use today in the Church of God.
Some Basic Calendar Astronomy
The biblical calendar (in both its sacred and civil forms) is a lunisolar calendar. It is not based merely on the solar year as is a purely solar calendar (such as our Gregorian calendar), nor merely on the lunar month as is a purely lunar calendar (such as that used by Islam). Rather, it uses the relationship of the lunar month to the solar year as its basis.
In the biblical calendar, the lunar month and the calendrical month are not identical. This is because the lunar month is an uneven number of days long. Moreover, the lunar month varies somewhat in length, due to the "eccentric" (non-circular, elliptical) orbits of the earth and moon. This means that the calendrical month must be either 29 or 30 days long -- that is, either somewhat less or somewhat more than the length of the lunar month.
For that matter, in the biblical calendar the length of the calendrical year is not the same as the length of the solar year. This is because 12 lunar months do not divide evenly into one solar year. A calendrical year must therefore have either 12 calendrical months (and thus be shorter than the solar year) or 13 calendrical months (and thus be longer than a solar year).
A basic question we need to ask, then, is When does the calendrical "month" (in Hebrew, chodesh or "renewal" begin in the biblical calendar?
End Quote
http//www.rakkav.com/qahal/pages/01_calendar1.htm
Jewish calendar
http//www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/calendar.htm
So this seems to be a mystery issue.
However it is wrong to assume that this will confuse Koranist as the Koran itself says there are verses that we will not understand. But the core message of the Koran is made clear to us and what we need for our salvation is made clear to us.
There seems to be a thinking among many Muslims that to defeat the Koranist argument we need to find something in the Koran that can not be understood except by hadith and this way we can show the Koranist that hadith and Sunnah is needed.
The reality is that there are many verses there are no hadith to explain and many verses that they are conflicting hadiths about them and many Sunni and Shia scholars have differed in them.
The other problem with this argument that some Muslims use is they only focus on the Muhammedan verses and never the verses about the era and events of the other prophets. They do that because often the Muhammedan verses have direct commands to Muhammad and his followers that the reader of the Koran sees it as talking to him or her. This is wrong theologically because the Koran also relates stories of the other prophets in present tense and often uses present commands also. Plus we must always remember that the Koran was revealed to Muhammad and that there are instances in the Koran where the Koran is concerned about what information he has or what observations he is seeing without elaborating on it. It also talks to the pagans and talks to Jews and sometimes talks to mankind as a whole. Its multi faceted and hase many angles and faces.
But simply asking some Koranist how do we know what these verses say or how would we know what these verses mean without hadith can backfire on the Sunnis and Shias who do not have much hadiths to explain the Koran. And as I said often the hadiths have conflicting interpretations. If you read the tafsir of Ibn Kathir you can see this clearly.
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Quote
The Sacred Calendar
The dates of the weekly Sabbath, Festivals and Holy Days are set according to a sacred calendar that is nowhere fully detailed in the Bible. Rather, the Bible assumes that the sacred calendar exists, that it has been preserved accurately, and that those faithful to God know about it. Otherwise, when would God's servants know when to proclaim these days or to keep them?
We know God entrusted His "oracles" in Hebrew (including the commands regarding the Sabbath, Festivals and Holy Days) to the Jews. This means that God must also have preserved the sacred calendar through the Jews -- despite themselves, if necessary (Romans 31-4).
The first step in proving this is a comparison of the principles behind our present sacred calendar with the calendrical principles that the Bible itself outlines. Once we do this, we may know (the Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible and likeminded sources notwithstanding) that there is such a thing in principle as a "biblical" calendar in all essentials, the same "sacred calendar" that we use today in the Church of God.
Some Basic Calendar Astronomy
The biblical calendar (in both its sacred and civil forms) is a lunisolar calendar. It is not based merely on the solar year as is a purely solar calendar (such as our Gregorian calendar), nor merely on the lunar month as is a purely lunar calendar (such as that used by Islam). Rather, it uses the relationship of the lunar month to the solar year as its basis.
In the biblical calendar, the lunar month and the calendrical month are not identical. This is because the lunar month is an uneven number of days long. Moreover, the lunar month varies somewhat in length, due to the "eccentric" (non-circular, elliptical) orbits of the earth and moon. This means that the calendrical month must be either 29 or 30 days long -- that is, either somewhat less or somewhat more than the length of the lunar month.
For that matter, in the biblical calendar the length of the calendrical year is not the same as the length of the solar year. This is because 12 lunar months do not divide evenly into one solar year. A calendrical year must therefore have either 12 calendrical months (and thus be shorter than the solar year) or 13 calendrical months (and thus be longer than a solar year).
A basic question we need to ask, then, is When does the calendrical "month" (in Hebrew, chodesh or "renewal" begin in the biblical calendar?
End Quote
http//www.rakkav.com/qahal/pages/01_calendar1.htm
Jewish calendar
http//www3.telus.net/public/kstam/en/temple/details/calendar.htm
So this seems to be a mystery issue.
However it is wrong to assume that this will confuse Koranist as the Koran itself says there are verses that we will not understand. But the core message of the Koran is made clear to us and what we need for our salvation is made clear to us.
There seems to be a thinking among many Muslims that to defeat the Koranist argument we need to find something in the Koran that can not be understood except by hadith and this way we can show the Koranist that hadith and Sunnah is needed.
The reality is that there are many verses there are no hadith to explain and many verses that they are conflicting hadiths about them and many Sunni and Shia scholars have differed in them.
The other problem with this argument that some Muslims use is they only focus on the Muhammedan verses and never the verses about the era and events of the other prophets. They do that because often the Muhammedan verses have direct commands to Muhammad and his followers that the reader of the Koran sees it as talking to him or her. This is wrong theologically because the Koran also relates stories of the other prophets in present tense and often uses present commands also. Plus we must always remember that the Koran was revealed to Muhammad and that there are instances in the Koran where the Koran is concerned about what information he has or what observations he is seeing without elaborating on it. It also talks to the pagans and talks to Jews and sometimes talks to mankind as a whole. Its multi faceted and hase many angles and faces.
But simply asking some Koranist how do we know what these verses say or how would we know what these verses mean without hadith can backfire on the Sunnis and Shias who do not have much hadiths to explain the Koran. And as I said often the hadiths have conflicting interpretations. If you read the tafsir of Ibn Kathir you can see this clearly.
For those of you who want look deeper into this and crunch some numbers this website is great. It tries to reconcile Jewish and Islamic calendar. Very complicated to me. I am not a number guy.
The Arabs followed the original system down to the times of the Prophet and only in the later Hadith was it destroyed. The Fuqaim, a clan of the Kinana in pre-Hadithic times carried out intercalation (ERE, ibid., p. 127). They had responsibility for the calendar in Ishmael as the Levites and Issachar had in Israel.
After the Hadith had wrecked the calendar of Islam due to its interpretation of the Surah, the leaders began introducing intercalary days in years of the cycle to correct the error, but to no avail. The procedure was that in the cycle of 30 years the years 2, 5, 7, 10, 13, 16, (15) 18, 21, 24, 26, and 29 add a day to their last month (ERE, ibid.). This was a vain attempt to regulate the calendar so as it met the needs of the people and the seasons, and still managed some semblance of following the absurd interpretation of the Hadith. In this context, reforms were made by leaders such as Fatimid Al Haziz. His reforms lasted from AH 366 to 501. The Abbasid Caliphate under at Ta?i? (AH 363-381) made reforms that lasted under the Seljuks (to 471) and the Mongol Il Khans. The old Persian calendar was reformed, but the calendar was so unusable that the authorities, down to the present, use the western solar calendars and the Gregorian, and use the Hadithic calendar for religious purposes only (ERE, ibid.).
Thus these clerics, by their error, have made the One True God appear to be the author of confusion, and blaspheme His authority and system.
Hallala, ahalla, (Heb. Hillel) meaning literally to praise (God) is derived from and explained by hilal meaning new moon. For by the New Moon were the months and sequences determined in the praise of the One True God Eloah ?the Lah? or Power.
Only by restoring the ?true? calendar is Islam able to purge itself of false teachers and return to the true faith and worship of the One True God
http//www.ccg.org/english/s/p053.html
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"Surely the number of months with Allah is twelve months in Allah's ordinance since the day when He created the heavens and the earth, of these four being sacred; that is the right reckoning; therefore be not unjust to yourselves regarding them, and fight the polytheists all together as they fight you all together; and know that Allah is with those who guard . (Quran 936)
Salaam,
Well, As I'm an Ex-Salafi , we "used" to have a field day with Quran-alone guys by asking them this question. -[
But Now, I, Myself want to know about this issue so that I can answer my salafi friends
Thanks
May, Ar-Rahman, Guide & Keep us all on the right path prYou posted the question in the wrong section. There is a whole section of the forum dedicated to this issue. I would suggest looking there first
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?board=6.0
Peace,
Ayman
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Zulhijjah means possessor of Hajj?.The 4 months of Hajj are the Sacred months .They start with Zulhijjah and finish by Rabi I.
By the same token, "rabi" means grazing and in Arabia the seasons of first grazing (rabi alawal) and second grazing (rabi althani) occured in the early fall and spring. Also, "ramadan" means "scorching heat". So the names of the so-called Islamic calendar months are false and have nothing to do with reality. Ironically, while the god clearly says that the crescents provide timing for "hagg" (2189), in reality the so-called Islamic Hagg has nothing to do with any crescent since it neither starts nor ends with the crescent.
Peace,
Ayman
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You posted the question in the wrong section. There is a whole section of the forum dedicated to this issue. I would suggest looking there first
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?board=6.0
Peace,
Ayman
Please be informed that MASOOMboy is no longer interested in this topic.
Thanks for the link. While I study the threads in the link, can you please summarize and provide the detail of Quran calendar in respect to the Gregorian calendar so that others can comment. Fyi., Quranists have few opinions regarding the Quran's calendar. Some accepted the Hijra' calendar, some refer to Gregorian, Chinese etc.
1 book, 1 GOD but many opinions and never get to agreement.
