Night of the decree , Ramadan , Pilgrimage and the Restricted Months

cleanfox5982

salam /peace / ,

2185 month of "Ramadan " in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the Criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

** first a month is 30 days , the proof

584 If he cannot find any, then he shall fast two consecutive months before any sexual contact between them. If he cannot, then he shall feed sixty poor people. That is so you would believe in God and His messenger. And these are the boundaries set by God. The disbelievers have incurred a painful retribution.

feeding sixty poor man instead of fasting two months , mean feeding one poor man in each day they guy wasn't fasting in it , sixty / 2 months = 30 days per month

** number of the months during a one year is 12

936 The count of the months with God is twelve months in the book of God the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight the polytheists collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that God is with the righteous.

** Ramadan is one of these months but which one ?

the Quran was sent down during the month of Ramadan

2185 A month of "Ramadan" , in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the Criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein.

** The Quran was sent down in a specific night in that month

971 We have sent it down in the Night of Decree.

** witch night is the night of the decree from the 30 nights of of Ramadan ?

First lets examine something

91 A revocation is made by God and His messenger to those with whom you have made a pledge from among the polytheists.
92 "Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters."
93 And a proclamation from God and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater Pilgrimage "That God and His messenger are innocent from the polytheists." If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected of a painful retribution.
94 Except for those with whom you had made a pledge from among the polytheists if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they support anyone against you; you shall continue the pledge with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous.
95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

the proclamation that the prophet should make it should be done "the day of the greater Pilgrimage"
93 And a proclamation from God and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater Pilgrimage "That God and His messenger are innocent from the polytheists."

**When is "the day of the greater pilgrimage" ?

The Quran tell us that pilgrimage is to be done in some known months

2197 The Pilgrimage months are made known. So whoever decides to perform the Pilgrimage therein, then there shall be no sexual approach, nor wickedness, nor baseless argument in the Pilgrimage.

The known months of pilgrimage are the four restricted months

936 The count of the months with God is twelve months in the book of God the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them;

**The day of the greater pilgrimage is the first day of this four months , why ?

the proclamation that "allah" and his messenger are innocent from the polytheists is to be announced clearly to them in that day of greater pilgrimage , there is a declaration before that proclamation stated in the previous verses and another declaration stated after that witch indicate the location of the day of the greater pilgrimage

91 A revocation is made by God and His messenger to those with whom you have made a pledge from among the polytheists.
92 "Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters."
93 And a proclamation from God and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater Pilgrimage "That God and His messenger are innocent from the polytheists." If you repent, then it is better for you, and if you turn away, then know that you will not escape God. And give news to those who have rejected of a painful retribution.
94 Except for those with whom you had made a pledge from among the polytheists if they did not reduce anything from it nor did they support anyone against you; you shall continue the pledge with them until its expiry. God loves the righteous.
95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them, and take them, and surround them, and stand against them at every point. If they repent, and they hold the contact prayer, and they contribute towards purification, then you shall leave them alone. God is Forgiving, Merciful.

In that day of greater pilgrimage a proclamation will be announced to the polytheists that "allah" and his messenger are innocent from them AND the polytheist shall 92 "Therefore, roam the land for four months these four months are the four known restricted months of pilgrimage 95 So when the restricted months have passed, then you may kill the polytheists wherever you find them.

That's mean if they roam the land for four months from the day it was announced that's mean this day is the first day of this four months , and these months are the restricted months known for pilgrimage this mean that the day of starting roaming the land for the polytheists is the day of the greater pilgrimage when this statement ( roam the land for four months ) is to be announced along with And a proclamation from God and His messenger to the people on the day of the greater Pilgrimage "That God and His messenger are innocent from the polytheists."

back to the night of the decree , the revelation / message only come in that night

441 HM.
442 And the clarifying Book.
443 We have sent it down in a blessed night. Surely, We were to warn.
444 In it, is a decree for every matter of wisdom.

When the revelation come down to the prophet about the proclamation to be announced at the day of greater pilgrimage he read also the announcement that was stated before that verse about 92 "Therefore, roam the land for four months and know that you will not escape God, and that God will humiliate the rejecters."
?Therefore, roam the land for four months? as we saw before it's about the restricted four months and to be started counting them from day of the greater pilgrimage, this mean the revelation about roaming the land for four months is a announcement that has been declared at the time the prophet received it , the verse say ?Therefore, roam the land for four months?. .

this mean this revelation come to the prophet the night preceding the day of the greater pilgrimage

this mean the night of the decree is followed by the four restricted months

the four restricted months are the first four month in the twelve months of the year (i'll prove that later )

this mean the night of the decree is the first night of the year and the first night of Ramadan and the first night of the restricted months , as the day is night proceeding the day/light . .

2133 And He is the One who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each swimming in an orbit.

The first issue is have here is that i am not 100% sure that the month of Ramadan is wither the first month of the year or the last month of the year depending of wither the night of the decree is the last night of the year or the first night of the year , the key to find that in my opinion is what does mean " fasting " and "fast Ramadan " .

approaching study

to be continued...

1824 "Perhaps my Lord will guide me to what is nearer than this in wisdom."

cleanfox5982

Salam to all / ,

i'll hold on posting in that subject for a while , i am not 100 % of something and better i do not post them

kgwithnob

According to 2196 below, month of Ramadzon cannot be one of the months of Hajj pilgrimage, or in other words, Ramadzan cannot be one of the restricted/HARAAM months of the year.

2196,

And complete the Hajj and 'umrah for Allah. But if you are prevented, then what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head a ransom of fasting or charity or sacrifice. And when you are secure, then whoever performs 'umrah followed by Hajj what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find - then a fast of three days during Hajj and of seven when you have returned . Those are ten complete . This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Haram. And fear Allah and know that Allah is severe in penalty.

Peace,
Khalil

cleanfox5982

According to 2196 below, month of Ramadzon cannot be one of the months of Hajj pilgrimage, or in other words, Ramadzan cannot be one of the restricted/HARAAM months of the year.

2196,

And complete the Hajj and 'umrah for Allah. But if you are prevented, then what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And do not shave your heads until the sacrificial animal has reached its place of slaughter. And whoever among you is ill or has an ailment of the head a ransom of fasting or charity or sacrifice. And when you are secure, then whoever performs 'umrah followed by Hajj what can be obtained with ease of sacrificial animals. And whoever cannot find - then a fast of three days during Hajj and of seven when you have returned . Those are ten complete . This is for those whose family is not in the area of al-Masjid al-Haram. And fear Allah and know that Allah is severe in penalty.

Peace,
Khalil

Salam Khalil ,

Thx for commenting.

I am aware about this point i went through it in my mind , i wrote in my privious post " the key to find that in my opinion is what does mean " fasting " and "fast Ramadan "" because my understanding / study of " fasting " bring me to the conclusion of abstaining from eating and drinking completely is not the recomended " fasting .

Also one of the things that makes more sens that the month of Ramadan is the last month of the year is that the ones who do not have "Alhady / " to offer in that day they should instead fast three days in the pilgrimage and seven when he return back at home , the key point here is the mentioning of this sum as a complet ten

2196,

2196 (.....) but for he who cannot find anything, then he must fast for three days during the Pilgrimage and seven when he returns; this will make a complete ten; this is for those whose family is not resident at the Restricted Temple. And be aware of God, and know that God is severe in retribution.

This ten complet is the same ten nights mentioned in

891 By the dawn.
892 And ten nights.

and its the same ten nights mentioned for Moses meeting

7142 And We appointed for Moses thirty nights and we completed them with ten, so the appointed time of his Lord was completed at forty nights. And Moses said to his brother Aaron "Be my successor with my people and be upright, and do not follow the path of the corrupters."

please note that the appointment for Moses at the beginning of the verse is thirty nights , and then the verse say 7142 And We appointed for Moses thirty nights and we completed them with ten , so the appointed time of his Lord was completed at forty nights.

My understanding is that there are two options

that Moses was fasting for the thirty nights ( Ramadan) and in the last night " the night of the decree " he went to the meeting and received the revelation "the tablets/ " , and he followed this night by fasting the next ten nights ( witch is named as ten complete in the verse 2196 ) completing the forty night .
that Moses was fasting the forty night thirty night of Ramadan + ten days of the first restricted month and then went for the meeting at the last night of this forty nights and receive the revelation "the tablets/ " witch mean that the last night of the ten complete ( the ten days of the first restricted month mentioned in 2196) as "the night of the decree "

Back to fasting / Ramadan

There are two words in the Quran with similar letters but with different movement "alssawm " and " alsseyam " .

1926 "So eat and drink and be happy. If you see any human being, then say 'I have vowed an "sawma " for the Almighty, so I will not talk today to any of mankind.'"

"sawm " from this verse is clearly about not speaking to anyone during the period of "alsawm " and is nothing to do with eating and drinking and as Meriam use to eat and drink in that day 1926 "So eat and drink and be happy.

what about " alsseyam "

2183 O you who believe " alsseyam / fasting" , has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.
2184 A few number of days; however, if any of you is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days; and as for those who can do so but with difficulty, they may redeem by feeding the needy. And whoever does good voluntarily, then it is better for him. And if you fast it is better for you if only you knew.

notice first that " alsseyam / fasting" has been decreed-ed for a few days . the single of days in Arabic is day

a "day " is the sum of the night and daylight

What i understand so far from this is that " alsseyam / fasting" is for the whole "day " mean the daylight and the night .

2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them.

In this verse its mentioned " the night of fasting/ / laylat al seyam" , what i understand so far is that " the night of fasting/ / laylat al seyam" mean they are still fasting during the night and what is made lawlfull for them in " the night of fasting/ " is 2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually.

and ONLY that , mean its not lawlfull to approach their wife's during the day/light there are other things that is not lawlfull for you during that night , why ? because they are still fasting during the night .

?the night of fasting/ " mean there is " the day light of fasting/ " ? i think so .

" the night of fasting/ / laylat Alseyam" + " the day light of fasting/ / nahar alseyam" = " the day of fasting/ / yawm Alseyam"

In that night its stated that they eat and drink

2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are the boundaries of God, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God clarifies His revelations to the people who they may be righteous.

What i understand so far is that fasting is not about abstaining completely from eating and drinking.
What i understand so far is that fasting is about abstaining from meat diet during the whole day/night and not approaching your wife during the day/light for for the whole month of Ramadan , and the purpose of that is to become righteous.

What makes me thinking about "fasting " being only about not eating meat and not approaching your wife during the day is that in the statement recommended as a aim / purpose of "fasting " to become righteous

2183 O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous.

what make sens about linking "fasting " to abstaining from eating meat is that

Ramadan is training for people to not eat meat and in other words to not kill animals knowing that the four months coming are the restricted / Haram months , in witch its unlawful/ Haram the hunting / killing of the livestock / animals , so it a sort of preparation/ training
The people are abstaining from eating meat diet for the whole month of Ramadan , and they are waiting the day of great pilgrimage to

2227 And call out to the people with the Pilgrimage, they will come to you walking and on every transport, they will come from every deep enclosure.
2228 So that they may witness benefits for themselves, and mention the name of God in the appointed days over what He has provided for them of the animal livestock. So eat from it and feed the needy and the poor.

Other point enforce the concept of abstaining from eating meat as being the correct "fasting " is that the verse 2187 is mentioning completing the fast until the night not until sun set
2187 (....) And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall complete the fast until night

there is no mentioning of a any specific time in the night , mean the whole night ?

Also the verse said complete the fasting until the night "

"Atemo " does not mean complet , the word who mean to complete is "akmelou " , in the clear Arabic tongue there is no "taradouf " mean there is no action/ or a thing that has two different words.

2185 (...) God wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify God for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

53 (...) Today I have "akmalto " complete your system for you, and "Atmamto " My blessings upon you, and I have approved submission as the system for you. So, whoever is forced by severe hunger and not seeking sin, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

what does "Atemo " mean ?

approaching study

to be continued...

1824 "Perhaps my Lord will guide me to what is nearer than this in wisdom.

cleanfox5982

salam to all ,

what does "Atemo " mean ?

"Atemo " is a 4th verb root from the 3th verb root "a/t/m " "atama " as an action mean contuning the action till finishing it , also mean linking one thing to another .

"tatemah " is a noun from this root used in classical Arabic literature , media .. etc of today ; "Tatemah " mean the contunaition of something a Sequel
http//translate.google.co.ma/?hl=fr&q=%D8%AA%D8%AA%D9%85%D8%A9+mean&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=1024&bih=667&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wT

the "a/t/m " root from the dictionary "lissan al arabe " http//www.lesanarab.com/ and " makayess Aloghah

( ) .

( ) . . .

reading the root verbe above with its meaning inside the verse examined lead me to the reading i mentioned before about "fasting " being for the whole day ( night and day / 24 hours )

2187 (...) And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn; then you shall "contuning " the fast to the night; and do not approach them while you are devoted in the temples. These are the boundaries of God, so do not transgress them. It is thus that God clarifies His revelations to the people who they may be righteous.

Contuning the fasting from the point of "2187 (...) the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn(...) to the night (...) " mean from what i understood that the verse is considering the people are fasting , they eat and drink until the dawn and then they should continue the fasting to the night .

Why is the "2187 (...) the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn(...) is mentioned , its because its the sign /time of "Al salawa (h) " i writing it like this as i have it writing like this in the Quran/copy we have here.

1778 Hold the "Al salawa (h) " at the zenith of the sun, until the approach of the night; and the Qur'an at dawn; the Qur'an at dawn is witnessed.

so they stop eating and drinking because its time of the "Al salawa (h) " and once they finish the verse tell them " 2187 (...) then you shall "contuning " the fast to the night(..)

Note also that the verse when it mention the eating and drinking it mention it before another statement 2187 It has been made lawful for you during the night of fasting to approach your women sexually. They are a garment for you and you are a garment for them. God knows that you used to betray your souls so He has accepted your repentance, and forgiven you; now you may approach them and seek what God has written for you. And you may eat and drink until the white thread is distinct from the black thread of dawn (...)

There is "and " between the action of approaching the wife and eating and drinking mean the second action is following the first one , they simply use to eat after approaching their wife's , and the eating and drinking mentioned there is simply to show to the sturdier that fasting is not about abstaining completely from eating and drinking

Does the Linking of the concept of "the fasting " as abstaining from eating meat during the whole days ( days and night) of Ramadan and also abstaining from approaching wife during the days and the concept of being righteous as recomended in the verse (2183 O you who believe, fasting has been decreed for you as it was decreed for those before you, perhaps you may be righteous. ) , does this linking make sens ?

what does it make more sens of being righteous by not eating or drinking anything during the day or by abstaining from eating meat ?

approaching study

to be continued...

1824 "Perhaps my Lord will guide me to what is nearer than this in wisdom.

cleanfox5982

What does it make more sens of being righteous by not eating or drinking anything during the day or by abstaining from eating meat ?

To answer this lets clarify something important

Does Allah want people to kill the livestock to eat meat or because people desire meat so Allah made the livestock in service for them under a defined constructions/rules ? One of the misleading teaching we had under the hadiths and the separated reading of some of the verses of the Quran is the word "sacrifice " and its meaning , we have been raised under this understanding that the Muslim do this sacrifice for Allah . this is why there is a verse mentioning the blood and meat as not reaching Allah

2236 And the plump livestock, We have made them for you to be among the symbols of Allah ; you will have benefit in them. So mention the name of God upon them in succession; then, once their sides have become still, you may eat from them and feed with them the poor and the needy. It was thus that We have made them in service to you, that you may be thankful.
2237 Neither their meat nor their blood reaches Allah , but what reaches Him is the righteousness from you. It was thus that He made them in service to you, so that you may glorify God for what He has guided you to, and give news to the good doers.

Allah made some of these nation ( 8 to be precise ) at the service of the children of Adam , Allah did scarified them for us not the opposite , witch is a huge difference
638 And there is not a creature on the earth, nor a bird that flies with its wings, except they belong to nations ( people) like you belong. We did not leave anything out of the record; then to their Lord they will be gathered.

What was designed for Adam to eat in the beginning?

235 And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."

Adam and his wife was "vegetarian" and that was the aim from the beginning .

There is a word always linked when food is mentioned in the Quran about what is lawful and what is not , the word is " Good things / Attayebat "

54 They ask you what was made lawful to them, say "All the good things have been made lawful for you, and what the trained dogs catch , you teach them from what God teaches you." So eat from what they have captured for you and mention the name of God upon it, and be aware of God. God is swift in reckoning.

2351 "O messengers, eat from the good things, and do good work. I am aware of what you do."

I understand from the above verses that eating meat was made lawful (under many constructions) but he is not among " Good things / Attayebat "

There is another important word always linked with vegetarian food , the word is " / Livelihood Rizka "

222 The One who has made the earth a resting place, and the sky a shelter, and He sent down from the sky water with which He brought out fruits as a Livelihood to you. So do not set up any equals with God while you know.

2857 And they said "If we follow the guidance with you, we will be deposed from our land." Did We not establish for them a safe territory, to which all kinds of fruits are offered, as a Livelihood from Us? Indeed, most of them do not know.

The story of children of Israel with Moses has some insight about the concept of vegetarian diet after Moses meeting and bringing the law

(...)

(?..)

257 And We shaded you with clouds, and sent down to you manna and salwa "Eat from the goodness of the provisions We have provided you." They did not wrong us, but it was their self that they wronged.
258 And We said "Enter this town, and eat from it as you wish bountifully. And enter the passageway by crouching, and say "Our ra is removed," so that your wrongdoings will be forgiven, and We will increase for the good doers."
259 But the wicked altered what was said to them to a different saying, thus We sent down upon the wicked an affliction from the heavens for what wickedness they were in.
260 And Moses was seeking water for his people, so We said "Strike the stone with your staff." Thus twelve springs exploded out of it; each people then knew from where to drink. "Eat and drink from the provisions of Allah, and do not roam the earth as corrupters."
261 And you said "O Moses, we will not be patient to one type of food, so call for us your Lord that He may bring forth what the earth grows of its beans, cucumbers, garlic, lentils, and onions." He said "Would you trade that which is lowly with that which is good?" Descend Egypt, you will have in it what you have asked for. And they were stricken with humiliation and disgrace, and they remained under the wrath of God for they were disbelieving in the revelations of God, and killing the prophets without right; this is for what they have disobeyed and transgressed.
(..)
267 And Moses said to his people "Allah orders you to slaughter a heifer." They said "Do you mock us?" He said "I seek refuge with God that I not be of the ignorant ones."
268 They said "Call upon your Rabb for us that He may clarify which it is." He said "He says it is a heifer neither too old nor too young, an age between that. So now do as you are commanded."
269 They said "Call upon your Rabb for us that He may clarify what color it is." He said "He says it is a yellow heifer with a strong color, pleasing to those who see it."
270 They said "Call upon your Rabb for us that He may clarify which one it is, for the heifers all look alike to us and we will, God willing, be guided."
271 He said "He says it is a heifer which was never subjugated to plough the land, or water the crops, free from any blemish." They said "Now you have come with the truth." And they slaughtered it, though they had nearly not done so.
272 And you had murdered a person, then disputed in the matter; Allah was to bring out what you were keeping secret.
273 We said "Strike him with parts from it." It is thus that Allah brings the dead to life, and He shows you His signs that you may comprehend.

some highlights

1***Manna and salwa was described as the good as food , and was described as " / Livelihood / Rizka " and as " Good things / Attayebat" 257 And We shaded you with clouds, and sent down to you manna and salwa "Eat from the goodness of the provisions We have provided you."

So surely as upon the previous analysis of this two words "Livelihood / Rizka" and " Good things / Attayebat" the Manna and Salwa are not meat , in the translation of the previous scripture we see they are mentioning manna and quail , and they said that quail is a bird http//www.zoocreation.com/biblespecies/quail.html

A Arabic examination for the root "S.L.W " , simply the root has nothing to do with birds
( ) . . .

2*** when the enter the city it was said to them to 258 And We said "Enter this town, and eat from it as you wish bountifully. And enter the passageway by crouching, and say "Our ra is removed," so that your wrongdoings will be forgiven, and We will increase for the good doers."

The " bountifully / Raghada " in the Quran is mentioned three times one with Adam in the garden235 And We said "O Adam, reside you and your mate in the paradise, and eat from it bountifully as you both wish, and do not approach this tree, else you will be of those who have wronged."

Second verse 258 And We said "Enter this town, and eat from it as you wish bountifully. And enter the passageway by crouching, and say "Our load is removed," so that your wrongdoings will be forgiven, and We will increase for the good doers."

Third one 16112 And Allah puts forth the example of a town which was peaceful and content, its Livelihood were coming to it bountifully from all places, but then it rebelled against the blessings of God, and God made it taste hunger and fear for what they used to do.

Linking eating from it bountifully with livelihood in the third verse and Adam eating from the garden bountifully in the first verse mean Children of Israel in the second verse was asked to eat from the town they enter bountifully , mean eating vegetarian food only as i understand .

3*** children of Israel mention that they can't be patient with one type of food , why they mention that its only one type of food knowing that what was sent to them was two things Manna and Salwa , so they said one food because wither Salwa is a drink not a food or they simply considered them as from one same type of food .

This also shows that salwa is not meat, its not Quail/ bird as it exist now in the previous scripture translation becouse if it was so childreen of isreal would not say "can't be patient with one type of food" because manna is not meat and quail is meat so they are not one type of food "

Mention also that the type of food they desired are all vegetarian food 261"forth what the earth grows of its beans, cucumbers, garlic, lentils, and onions"

Moses replied to them 261" He said "Would you trade that which is lowly with that which is good?"

So Manna and salwa is higher in goodness than what they mentioned .

youssef4342

peace be with you as well

Ramadan might not be during the 4 restricted months.
we note that a sura was revealed (quran revealed during ramadan) mentioning fighting 986, (similar to) 4720, and people complained as let us not mobilize in the heat (981)

fighting was in retrospect with revealing the Quran. And it would be unlawful to fight during the 4 restricted months.

ayman

Peace Alkitab,

Since you seem to know Arabic, I will post an Arabic article on this topic here.

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youssef4342

yes ayman i would also believe in the summer solstice timing of salat...
we note that a sura was revealed (quran revealed during ramadan) mentioning fighting 986, (similar to) 4720, and people complained as let us not mobilize in the HEAT (981)

cleanfox5982

peace be with you as well

Ramadan might not be during the 4 restricted months.
we note that a sura was revealed (quran revealed during ramadan) mentioning fighting 986, (similar to) 4720, and people complained as let us not mobilize in the heat (981)

fighting was in retrospect with revealing the Quran. And it would be unlawful to fight during the 4 restricted months.

Salam be upon you Ayman / Youssef ,
Thx for sharing this Ayman , i'll come back later to you about some details about it .

Yes Youssef Ramadan is not one of the four restricted months but not because of the (the fight being "unlawful " during the restricted months and that a sura was mentioning fighting 986 and 4720 and liking that with the heat 981. ) because there is fight during the restricted month in a special case

2217 They ask you about the restricted month "Is there fighting in it?" Say "Much fighting is in it, and to repel from the path of Allah and to disbelieve in it, and the Restricted Temple, to drive its inhabitants out from it is far greater with Allah, and persecution is worse than being killed."

I already mentioned in my second post that i most likely see Ramadan as the month preceding the four restricted months based in the great day of pilgrimage and the night of the decree location and also the concept of what is to fast , but the "the fasting" mentioned in 2183 that was written upon the believers for a few numbers days / are the same days mentioned in 2228, and they are the same "ten complete " mentioned in 2196 , and they are the same "Ten continuation " mentioned in 7142 about Moses( Salam upon him) meeting , and the same ten night mentioned in 892 "And ten nights " .

This mean - by considering the known few appointed ten days 2183 / 2196 /7142 as days of fasting - that fasting is indeed during the four restricted months and its exact location is the first ten nights of the first restricted month this ten nights start with the day of greater pilgrimage , why ? because the verse is mentioning the dawn and the ten night
891 By the dawn .
892 "And ten nights "

My understanding is the dawn mentioned above is preceding this ten night , witch dawn is that , its the same one mentioned in 975
971 We have sent it down in the Night of Decree.
975 It is peaceful until the coming of dawn.

This mean "the night of the decree " is the last night of Ramadan .

The picture i have for that puzzle is like this

"The year " according to my understanding picked up from the Quran is composed like this

The four restricted 1st month the first day of this month is the great day of pilgrimage , the ten nights followed are the known few appointed ten days 2183 / 2196 /7142 as days/nights of fasting
2nd restricted month
3td restricted month
4th restricted month
5/6/7/8/9/10/11 months are not considered as restricted but doesn't mean Allah recommend transgress in these months
the 12th month is the month of Ramadan , you can note that in the Quran Ramadan is mentioned after the known counted days for fasting because Ramadan come after them 2184 , 2185 , now the Quran one it mention the fasting during Ramadan its says 2185 A month of Ramadan, in which the Qur'an was revealed; as a guide to the people and clarities from the guidance and the Criterion. Therefore, whoever of you witnesses the month, then let him fast therein. And whoever is ill or traveling, then the same number from different days. Allah wants to bring you ease and not to bring you hardship; and so that you may complete the count, and glorify allah for what He has guided you, that you may be thankful.

How much is the count that is to be completed , there are several probabilities

forty nights mentioned as a appointment made for Moses ( Salam be upon him ) knowing the appointment was for 30 nights and then the verse said we continued it with ten , so the believers dis fast so far ten known days / ten nights that is marked by the great day of pilgrimage , and after 11 months the verse ask them to complete the count by fasting 30 days of the month of Ramadan completing the forty nights , same as Moses did ( Salam be upon him )
to complete"the count" mean to complete the twelve months mentioned 936 because Ramadan is the last month of the twelve months

936 The count of the months with Allah is twelve months in the book of Allah the day He created the heavens and the earth; four of them are restricted. This is the correct system; so do not wrong yourselves in them; and fight the polytheists collectively as they fight you collectively. And know that Allah is with the righteous.

or to complete "the count" mean simply to complete the 30 days of fasting "chahr a month"

I most likley see that its about the case number one, forty nights .

last night in Ramadan is the night of the decree when the revelation sent down to the earth , the dawn of this night will mark the starting of the day of great pilgrimage and the ten days/nights of fasting and the four restricted months and so on .

When is the night of the decree ? because this is the key to locate the dawn , followed by the great day of pilgrimage , the ten fasting days/nights , the four restricted months , the following months of the year and then the last month counting 12 months , this last month is Ramadan having the night of the decree at the end , witch make the night of the decree the focal point .

we have sent it down in a prosperous night
443 We have sent it down in a prosperous night. Surely, We were to warn.

what would make a night being prosperous ?

nurmuhammed

what is the translation of these words ??
syiyam
tasyuumu

http//www.aididsafar.com/fast.html

youssef4342

Peace be with you as well Alkitab
Thanks for sharing. I would hope we could formulate an understanding of Hajj, Fasting, Calender use etc.
May God Almighty make all things clear and understandable for us.

cleanfox5982

. . . .

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Salam upon you Youssef /Ayman ,

As you can notice Ayman the developing of the topic i started bring me to some different conclusions than the conclusions stated in the thread you post , but of course there are many things that are absolutely correct , i read he post comparatively and the ten complete days/night wasn't in my consideration as fasting days , in my previous post you can see how i think it should fit with fasting Ramadan 30 days Ramadan 30 days + 10 days = 40 nights. I am not assuming i am 100 right in this but i am studying it .

These are some of my conclusion and points that i think are to be reviewed in the thread you post previously

First " Alahilah "translated as the crescent moons is not precisely correct , " Alahilah " come from the root " A.H.L" mean to announce , mean the announcers , maybe the English translation i used here is not the best one but you will understand

53 Forbidden to you is that which is already dead, and the blood, and the meat of pig, and what was Announced /dedicated to other than Allah , and that which has been strangled, and that which has been beaten to death, and that which has fallen from a height, and that which has been gored, and that which the wild animals have eaten from except what you managed to rescue, and what has been slaughtered on altars, and what you divide by the arrows of chance. This is vile.

in our place the guy who come at night to announce the time of eating before the dawn during Ramadan is called "halal " the announcer , but surely they look at the moon and its stages and announce the time of pilgrimage and other events. this is why the quran said to the guy used to tell people about this timing to not come from the back of the homes to announce this timing for pilgrimage and other events , because that thought is a piety to do so , so the Quran tell them to announce this timing by coming from the front of the homes and piety is about being righteous , because they thought that hiding from the women of the home would be more piety so it tell them come from the front and be righteous

2189 They ask you regarding the Announcement , say "They are a timing mechanism for the people and the Pilgrimage." And piety is not that you would enter a home from its back, but piety is whoever is righteous and comes to the homes from their main doors. And be aware of Allah that you may succeed.

second about Ramadan

Ramadan is not the heat or in the heat / summer season , but Ramadan is caused by the heat / summer season , Ramadan as a atmospheric / weather month is following the summer / hot season in other word Ramadan is in the weather/ season known as "Autumn / Alkharif " or "dryness /Aljafaf " the physical phenomena of dryness found in that season has one major cause the heat .

The root "R.M.D " dose not mean heat , in the Arabic tongue every thing / object / action/ verb / has a one specific precise name and there is no " Tandem " mean replacing a word with another word and meaning the same thing , i am sure you know that .
The word used for the heat in the Arabic tongue is " Alharr / hot "

981 Those who have remained are happy with their position of lagging behind the messenger of Allah , and they disliked striving with their money and lives in the cause of Allah ; and they say "Do not mobilize in the heat." Say "The fire of Hell is much hotter," if they could only understand.

And the word used for rising the temperature of something is with no connection of the root "R.M.D " , the word/verb used is " Yohmi / H.M" , and this is where come the word "Fever / Homa "

935 On the Day when they will be seared in the fires of Hell, and their foreheads and sides and backs will be branded with it "This is what you have hoarded for yourselves, so taste what you have hoarded!"

So what doesThe root "R.M.D " mean

This is the etymological examination of that root from the book dictionary " Makayeesse Alogha "
( ) . . . ; . . .

. . . . . . . . . . .

This is the etymological examination of that root from the book dictionary " Lissan Alarab "

. . . . . . . ;

. . ; . ; . . . . . ; . . . . . . . ;

. . ;

. .
. . . . .
.

. ; . . . .

. . . ; . I . . .

. . ; ; ;

I highlight all the explanation that has connection of the root "R.M.D " as being a result of the heat not the heat itself , look at the first examination of the root in " Makayeesse Alogha " dictionary it says
( )

** "R.M.D " is a "basic origin root" that is "steady, uniform, equable" who mean a "sharpness" in something from the heat or something else

** a sharp knife
how to make a knife sharp ? you need to heat the iron and hit it , again becoming sharp is a cause of the steady heat.

** using the verb "Ramadtou "as to putting a piece of meat under the fire to cock it , the physical scientific phenomena in this action is simply about drying the meat from water by the heat , the same thing that the sun/summer season do to the earth/ trees / and all organic entities. again becoming cocked is a cause of the steady heat.

** look at this as its one of the interesting examination of the that root
. . .

First You can notice that when they talking about seasons they are placing "Arramdiah as the last period / time of the weathers/ seasons of the year , notice also that there is a rain called "Ramdi " they said because he reach the last heat of the season .

For my understanding the general conclusion from this examination of that root "R.M.D " is that it doesn't mean the heat but is caused by the heat , the heat is causing the phenomena of "R.M.D " witch we can translate to English as the state of the earth/ trees in the season of autumn , being dry , witch is a phenomena coming after the season of the hot/ summer.

Now i'll make the connection between "Ramadan " - as being the last month of the year when the earth is dry and the leaves are falling from trees - and" the night of the decree " witch will connect also to the greater day of pilgrimage , the ten fasting days/night , and the 4 restricted months.

any interruption or comments are very welcomed

...To be continued

unknownuser

Good day to all...

Yes, I agree with member Al-Kitab's assessment, as I have read many Arabic sources referring to the hot earth when it receives the first drops of autumn rain as being called Al-Ramda'a (&#1569 . It's what gives off that characteristic earthly smell, when the hot soil receives the first rainfalls.

So it would be logical to assume that Ramadan must coincide with the September-October period of every year, and must be the beginning of fall (the autumn equinox). Is this perhaps why they rank Ramadan as the 9th month? Could be...

The problem with the the so-called "Hijri" calendar is that it is PURELY a lunar calendar. Any calendar system that does not match with the seasons is garbage, in my opinion. You cannot dismiss the sun from your calculations. The Quran says that Allah made the sun AND the moon in order to determine the count of seasons and days. The Jews understood this fully. This is why, although they also adopt a lunar system to count DAYS, they add an intercallary month now and then to make sure that their months are always matching the SEASONS (i.e, they recognize the sun's importance). The misguided "Muslims" have completely ignored the sun, claiming that it is used by the "Kafir" Western calendar systems. As a result, the names given to their "Hijri" months are now meaningless and irrelevant.

Peace.

nurmuhammed