Night of the decree , Ramadan , Pilgrimage and the Restricted Months
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Dear Alkitab member,
hey can you check this for me "asyiyaama" is it translated as to the night or untill the night ?
thanks.
sincerely,
nurmuhammed.salam Brother
I already gone through this from some of my previous posts , have a look
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603865.0the verse said
2187 Permitted to you, upon the night of the Fast, is to go in to your wives; -- they are a vestment for you, and you are a vestment for them.Allah knows that you have been betraying yourselves, and has turned to you and pardoned you. So now lie with them, and seek what God has prescribed for you. And eat and drink, until the white thread shows clearly to you from the black thread at the dawn; then continue the Fast to the night, and do not lie with them while you cleave to the mosques. Those are God's bounds; keep well within them. So Allah makes clear His signs to men; haply they will be righteous.
When the action is meant to be ended in a certain definite time and there will be actions to happen after and they are conditioned by this definite time or place or action or thoughts , the quran use the word " until /Hata " some exemple
2187 Permitted to you, upon the night of the Fast, is to go in to your wives; -- they are a vestment for you, and you are a vestment for them.Allah knows that you have been betraying yourselves, and has turned to you and pardoned you. So now lie with them, and seek what God has prescribed for you. And eat and drink, "until/hata " the white thread shows clearly to you from the black thread at the dawn
the ending time is definite and its known and the action / behaviors that will come after are conditioned by a sign the white thread shows clearly to you from the black thread at the dawn. so this is why "until/hata " is used
another example
until, when he reached the rising of the sun, he found it rising upon a people for whom We had not appointed any veil to shade them from it.
In this case the place is definite and its known and and there will be action conditioned by this place/sign the rising of the sun , so this is why "until/hata " is used.
As for the verse 2187 the Quran used the word "To / Ila " then continue the Fast to the night
in my understanding contuning the fast to the night mean its not conditioned by the night so we break the fast , if it was the case the Quran would use the word "until/hata " and also The night is from darkness till the dawn , and simply the Quran didn't mentioned any specific sign during the nigh as to be the conditioned time to break the fast , look at this verse when the Quran state about a specific sign during the night
Establish "Al-salawah" - at the sun's decline to the darkness of the night, and the Quran at the dawn , the Quran at the dawn is witnessed.
and the Quran used "To / Ila " here and he didn't use "until/hata " simply because there is no action conditioned by the darkness of the night so the believers were commanded to do it after the night come .
In my understanding the fasting is to be continued to the night mean to keep fasting during the night , because the fasting was decreed-ed upon the believers for a counted "days / Ayam " , and the day is a combination of nigh and day light .
Also the expression in 2187 "the night of the fast / Laylah Al-Seyam " , mean that there is the daylight of the fast .
2187 Permitted to you, upon the night of the Fast, is to go in to your wives; -- they are a vestment for you, and you are a vestment for them(...)
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Salam all
I will not interfere, because I'm sure the last person to know something-I'll post only the root of adl ;DAyn-Dal-Lam = to act and deal justly, equitably, with fairness and proportion, adjust properly as to relative magnitude, establish justice, hold as equal, pay as an aquivalent, dispose aright, straighten, deviate from the right path, turn aside, stray from. adlun - justice, equity, accuracy, recompense, ransom, equivalent, compensation, instead (thereof).
is this not the same as equivalent? Thank you for clarification.
Peace peaceSalam member mmkhan and mirjamnur , you're very welcome to interfere and comment anytime ,
thx for sharing this, mirjamnur i think you did answer member mmkhan question about the connection of the root "A D L" and the concept of measuring equitably/ equivalent .
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Salaam MirJamnur and all,
Really sorry for high-jacking other's thread. But I think it is important to share to reach the correct understanding.
If you translate "adl" as a long list of translations how will you translate "misl" as quoted in my previous post and "fidya". Please try getting translation of these two words also. It is never be possible for different words having the same meaning.
BTW, it is not called root as you said above D
Thank you for your post.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanSalam mmkhan ;
what do you mean by "misl" ? -
Salam
yes now !i get it, i think ;D595
595 O you who have believed, do not kill game while you are in the state of i?ram. And whoever of you kills it intentionally ? the penalty is an equivalent from animals/Naam to what he killed, as judged by two just men among you as an offering delivered to the Ka?bah, or an expiation the feeding of needy people or the equivalent of that in fasting, that he may taste the consequence of his deed. Allah has pardoned what is past; but whoever returns , then Allah will take retribution from him. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution.
mithl= en equivalend and 3adl= the equivalentMiim-Tha-Lam = Stand erect, mutilate or castrate (namely a sheep or goat), to set up a thing, affect to be like or to imitate a thing, apply a proverb, apply a thing proverbially, be nearly in a sound or healthy state, near to convalescence, obey/follow a command or order, to resemble, be of likeness or equivalent.
. A like; a similar person or thing; match;Ayn-Dal-Lam = to act and deal justly, equitably, with fairness and proportion, adjust properly as to relative magnitude, establish justice, hold as equal, pay as an aquivalent, dispose aright, straighten, deviate from the right path, turn aside, stray from. adlun - justice, equity, accuracy, recompense, ransom, equivalent, compensation, instead (thereof).
fellow; an analogue. (Ig, &c.) from Lane
iIt seems that mithl here mean, that we must do the same thing that we have inadvertently maked we must SLAUGHTER and give for the poor. Whereas the 3adlpoint to the compensation of the error, i.e. if we can't slaughter, wie should feed poor people with 3adl, i.e so many as with a victime. However, this is not necessarily be fasting for a day for one-killed animal. sah? ;D
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Salam mmkhan ;
what do you mean by "misl" ?Salaam AlKitab,
Thanks for your welcome.
MirJamnur already added "mithl" in the above post of her. And also please check what "fidya" means.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhan -
Salaam AlKitab,
Thanks for your welcome.
MirJamnur already added "mithl" in the above post of her. And also please check what "fidya" means.
May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His true path pr
mmKhanSalam member mmkhan ,
The root " F D Y " from Makayees Alogha Arabic root dictionary
( )) . .
. .
. .The root " F D Y " from Lissan Al-Arab root dictionary
; . . . ( ) ; . ; ; ; . . . ; ;
. .The root " F D Y " in both root arabic dictionary point to
To redeem from captivity, servitude, punishment, or forfeit, by paying a price; to buy out of servitude or penalty; to rescue; to deliver; as, to ransom prisoners from an enemy.
(n.) The release of a captive, or of captured property, by payment of a consideration; redemption; as, prisoners hopeless of ransom.
(n.) The money or price paid for the redemption of a prisoner, or for goods captured by an enemy; payment for freedom from restraint, penalty, or forfeit.
But how to link the root " F D Y " as being a ransom to the verse 595 will be inchallah in other post i am not sure about how i understood it so far , do you you know ?
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But how to link the root " F D Y " as being a ransom to the verse 595 will be inchallah in other post i am not sure about how i understood it so far , do you you know ?
Salaam Alkitab ,
I understand "F D Y " means "replacement", "something exchange", "something given or taken in place of other".
Please see 37103, 2229, 2196
"Kaffaara or Kaffaaratu" is little bit different from "Fidya", it means "penalty" you have to give something but as penalty not in replacement.
This is how I understand of these words. May Allah forgive me and correct me if I am wrong pr
mmKhan
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Peace brother Alkitab,
the example you did give in 589 , even if the fasting days are not spited equitably doesn't mean that there is no standard formula between number of days of fasting and number of poor people to feed becouse there is a standard formula mentioned in 595
595 O you who have believed, do not kill game while you are in the state of i?ram. And whoever of you kills it intentionally ? the penalty is an equivalent from animals/Naam to what he killed, as judged by two just men among you as an offering delivered to the Ka?bah, or an expiation the feeding of needy people or the equivalent of that in fasting, that he may taste the consequence of his deed. Allah has pardoned what is past; but whoever returns , then Allah will take retribution from him. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Owner of Retribution.
so simply the expiation on meaningless Oaths is not included in that standard , and if in this case is not included doesn't mean that the standard do not exist .There is no standard formula between the original act of killing a wild animal and providing similar livestock. It is simply what someone who is fair decrees.
there is difference between "the Expiation / Al-kafarah" and " The Ransom / Al-Fidyah " the fasting and/or feeding the poor do vary depending if the case if it'is about "the Expiation / Al-kafarah" or " The Ransom / Al-Fidyah " and depending on the degree of evaluation of each fact . The standard Formula between the freeing of a slave or fasting numbers of days or feeding poor man , is not considered equitably in some of these cases but in other verses the comand is clearly stating to a equitable standard notably in
595 (....) or an expiation the feeding of needy people or the equivalent of that in fasting(...)Both 589 and 595 talk about "kaffara" and not "fedya". So if there is a standard to be applied in 595 then it needs to be the same standard as in 589, which is 1 to 3.33.
And also this standard is mentioned indirectly / meaningly in the verse 2184
2183 O you who have believed, decreed upon you is fasting as it was decreed upon those before you that you may become righteous -
2184 a limited number of days. So whoever among you is ill or on a journey - then an equal number of days . And upon those who are "Youtikonakh" a ransom of feeding a poor person . And whoever volunteers excess - it is better for him. But to fast is best for you, if you only knew.
What would be your "standard formula" brother Aymen in this case of Ransom as being feeding poor man , how many poor man to feed as it is not mentioned in the verse above 2184 ?Dear brother, the answer to your question is right in front of your eyes. 2184 clearly commands to feed ONE poor person to make up for the entire fasting period for those who find it difficult to fast.
It would be great if you provide evidence / proof and it would be more accurate if it?s not about common sense as times shows that many common sense are wrong sense, and if you did count the days of each months during twelve repeated months that would be much greater. Can you make your witness about that? That you did observe and count them that between full moon to full moon there is sometimes 29 other time 30, is this consistent? Witch months are 29 and witch ones are 30 days , or they are not consistent and each month do vary from a year to another ?
I personally didn't counted them, and i'll try to do so inchallah. all i know for sure is that the system is consistent and that two repeated units for calculation are the month (full moon to full moon) and the day (from darkness to darkness)
I think i am not obliged to rush you have been posting in this for years and I am following the point I raised and some of your study and other people studies notably Lyath and other research and comparison from outside the free-minds website understanding perhaps we come to a better understanding.
I am not trying to contradict whatever you say there are things that are correct in your study and other that are wrong in my understanding , if I find out that I was wrong I?ll admit it and corrected it hope you do the same too. And I am sure you know that many things in your study are to be reviewed .Brother, it is a well known and measurable fact that the lunar cycle is on average 29.53 days. Hence, the time between full-moons is sometimes 30 and sometimes 29 days. This is all well known and measured. Please feel free to revise your understanding and post this fact after you verified it for yourself.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace brother Alkitab,
There is no standard formula between the original act of killing a wild animal and providing similar livestock. It is simply what someone who is fair decrees.
The equivalent mentioned in 589 is between feeding poor peoples and fasting , re-read the expresion in that verse / the equivalent of that in fasting .
the equivalent of what ? surely numbers of poor people to feed .Both 589 and 595 talk about "kaffara" and not "fedya". So if there is a standard to be applied in 595 then it needs to be the same standard as in 589, which is 1 to 3.33.
i'll re-post what i wrote previously
there is difference between "the Expiation / Al-kafarah" and " The Ransom / Al-Fidyah " the fasting and/or feeding the poor do vary depending if the case if it'is about "the Expiation / Al-kafarah" or " The Ransom / Al-Fidyah " and depending on the degree of evaluation of each fact . The standard Formula between the freeing of a slave or fasting numbers of days or feeding poor man , is not considered equitably in some of these cases but in other verses the comand is clearly stating to a equitable standard notably in 595 and indirectly in 2184Dear brother, the answer to your question is right in front of your eyes. 2184 clearly commands to feed ONE poor person to make up for the entire fasting period for those who find it difficult to fast.
I swear by Allah that the word "Masken poor peoples " that is written in the verse 5-95 and 5-89 and 2-184 is written with a " " sound movement between the sound "S " and " K " and that makes the word Masken / Poor plural not singular , a number of poor peoples not a one poor man .
And that the internet Arabic written calligraphy version of that word i used it and copied it was a mistake without paying close attention to it and that this internet Arabic written calligraphy is different to the Arabic written calligraphy of the Quran i have between my hand , in witch the word "Masken poor peoples " that is written in the verse 5-95 and 5-89 and 2-184 is written with a " " sound movement between the sound "S " and " K " and that makes the word Masken / Poor plural not singular , a number of poor peoples not a one poor man .
look at the word "Masken written in Arabic calligraphy simillar to the one i have with a " " sound movement between the sound "S " and " K " from the web site corpus of the quran
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=5&verse=89#(5891)
i wrongly used this word from another Arabic Quran written web site.
****The only verses where the word Masken a one singular poor men is mentioned is in two cases
case one the word "Masken " is singular and he is without the definite article "AL" is only in one verse in the whole Quran and that is on 68-24
68-24
Yusuf Ali 68-24 Let not a single indigent person break in upon you into the (garden) this day."Case two the word "Masken " is singular and he is with the definite article "AL" and that is on 39-34 and 74-44 and 89-18 and 107-3
**** The only verses where the word Masken a number of poor people is mentioned is in two case too
Case one the word Masken is plural a number of poor poeples is mentioned without the definite article "AL" is on 5-89 and 5-95 and 2-184
Case two the word Masken is plural a number of poor poeples is mentioned with the definite article "AL" is on 2-83 and 2-177 and 2-215 and 4-8 and 4-36 and 8-41 and 9-60 and 24-22 and 59-7 .
Brother, it is a well known and measurable fact that the lunar cycle is on average 29.53 days.
well known sound very not scientific answer .
and measurable fact
did you measured it by yourself ? or provide the people who did so we can witness or witness not about it.
the lunar cycle is on average 29.53 days
This is really really funny that there is something in the consistent system of Allah called 0.53 day .
Hence, the time between full-moons is sometimes 30 and sometimes 29 days. This is all well known and measured.
again this is flue answer who measured it ? did you ? provide accurate study not "well known " or " common sens "
Peace,
AymanSalam , when i say brother i truly men it , its not a conversation strategy
My respect. -
Peace brother AK,
My own brother by blood makes some false and illogical statements as well so no need to feel bad about it
The equivalent mentioned in 589 is between feeding poor peoples and fasting , re-read the expresion in that verse / the equivalent of that in fasting .
the equivalent of what ? surely numbers of poor people to feed .589 doesn't mention / the equivalent of that in fasting . You are confusing 589 and 595.
i'll re-post what i wrote previously
there is difference between "the Expiation / Al-kafarah" and " The Ransom / Al-Fidyah " the fasting and/or feeding the poor do vary depending if the case if it'is about "the Expiation / Al-kafarah" or " The Ransom / Al-Fidyah " and depending on the degree of evaluation of each fact . The standard Formula between the freeing of a slave or fasting numbers of days or feeding poor man , is not considered equitably in some of these cases but in other verses the comand is clearly stating to a equitable standard notably in 595 and indirectly in 2184Reposting the same false analogy doesn't make it right. 595 talks about "kaffara" while 2184 talks about "fedya". Please re-read those verses again and highlight the relevant words if you disagree.
I swear by Allah that the word "Masken poor peoples " that is written in the verse 5-95 and 5-89 and 2-184 is written with a " " sound movement between the sound "S " and " K " and that makes the word Masken / Poor plural not singular , a number of poor peoples not a one poor man .
And that the internet Arabic written calligraphy version of that word i used it and copied it was a mistake without paying close attention to it and that this internet Arabic written calligraphy is different to the Arabic written calligraphy of the Quran i have between my hand , in witch the word "Masken poor peoples " that is written in the verse 5-95 and 5-89 and 2-184 is written with a " " sound movement between the sound "S " and " K " and that makes the word Masken / Poor plural not singular , a number of poor peoples not a one poor man .
look at the word "Masken written in Arabic calligraphy simillar to the one i have with a " " sound movement between the sound "S " and " K " from the web site corpus of the quran
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=5&verse=89#(5891)
i wrongly used this word from another Arabic Quran written web site.
****The only verses where the word Masken a one singular poor men is mentioned is in two cases
case one the word "Masken " is singular and he is without the definite article "AL" is only in one verse in the whole Quran and that is on 68-24
68-24
Yusuf Ali 68-24 Let not a single indigent person break in upon you into the (garden) this day."Case two the word "Masken " is singular and he is with the definite article "AL" and that is on 39-34 and 74-44 and 89-18 and 107-3
**** The only verses where the word Masken a number of poor people is mentioned is in two case tooCase one the word Masken is plural a number of poor poeples is mentioned without the definite article "AL" is on 5-89 and 5-95 and 2-184
Case two the word Masken is plural a number of poor poeples is mentioned with the definite article "AL" is on 2-83 and 2-177 and 2-215 and 4-8 and 4-36 and 8-41 and 9-60 and 24-22 and 59-7 .The word "miskin" in 2184 is singular. If in doubt then go ask someone neutral who knows Arabic well. Also, since you swore by the god on what turned out to be false, you would need to fast for 3 days according to 589.
well known sound very not scientific answer .
did you measured it by yourself ? or provide the people who did so we can witness or witness not about it.
This is really really funny that there is something in the consistent system of Allah called 0.53 day .
again this is flue answer who measured it ? did you ? provide accurate study not "well known " or " common sens "
Salam , when i say brother i truly men it , its not a conversation strategy
My respect.Again, I am not going to waste your time and my time and the readers' time arguing about well known scientific information. It is like I am saying to you that the earth is spherical and then you answer back that the earth is flat. The burden of proof is on those who contradict well established scientific info. Saying that the year is 360 days is no different than saying that the earth is flat. I would suggest that you don't start from your imaginary 30 day month and 360 day year and then work backwards and ignore reality.
Peace,
Ayman
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Is there a conclusion?
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Is there a conclusion?
I'll post my conclusions in appropriate sections brother , there are already many conclusions in the thread , i'll try to summarize and post it an a Clair demonstration , some of my conclusions are based on the primary study , understanding or hints of some brother here and elsewhere , so the objective is get to a one common accurate understanding and avoid confusions .
Your enthusiasm in seeking the accurate understanding is playing a major role here brother , i also share the same view as yours concerning the many confusion threads and discussions , and that in my opinion is due to the methodology and the rules of posting and debating in the forum .
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I'll post my conclusions in appropriate sections brother , there are already many conclusions in the thread , i'll try to summarize and post it an a Clair demonstration , some of my conclusions are based on the primary study , understanding or hints of some brother here and elsewhere , so the objective is get to a one common accurate understanding and avoid confusions .
Your enthusiasm in seeking the accurate understanding is playing a major role here brother , i also share the same view as yours concerning the many confusion threads and discussions , and that in my opinion is due to the methodology and the rules of posting and debating in the forum .
Thank you so very much for your kind answer.
Looking forward to clear conclusions.
God bless