Inheritance according to Qur?an

[McKenna36]

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error?

[Noon_waalqalami]

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error?

Peace McKenna36,

There are few things to research especially meaning of kalala which according to poems (unlikely influenced by sectarian bias) which vary widely on interpretation and can refer to a deceased, living "indirect heir" or either.

http//oi58.tinypic.com/i26moj.jpg

walam/and not I inherit al-majd/the glory al-taleed/the glorious kalala

An Anonymous Poet proclaimed
surely, a father protects more wrathfully his offspring?

http//oi62.tinypic.com/sfwg7k.jpg

and patron al-kalalati not gets angry

According to poet, a parent is protective of children whereas not about those under their guardianship.

Thus main issue which verse to apply for 1 sister (1/6) 412 or 1/2 4176?

Distributions work with presence of son kalala (412) and no child (4176)?

Likewise what to do when there are exactly (2) daughters and/or 3+ sisters?

[FreedomStands]

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error?

I don't want to read even one page!

[Noon_waalqalami]

Hi guys!
I don't want to read all the 53 pages so let's make it short; did we finally find a solution(logical solution!) for that error

Peace McKenna36,

The quagmire was kalala and case of when there are exactly two daughters and likewise three+ sisters?

Only way to resolve was 411 mixed gender children; 412 same gender sibling/s; 4176 mixed gender siblings.

In addition kalala refers to an indirect heir (sibling/s) who only inherit if there is no spouse and no child/walad (4176).

Here is summary

411 to children if mixed gender
to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

(I.e. only if two daughters to male/s same the two females NOT always twice as much!)

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son/s

411 to parents if child
1/3 parents (1/6 each), 3/4 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children distribute 3/4 per above)

411 to parents no child and both parents alive
1/3 mother, 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/6 sibling (412), 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/3 siblings (412 same gender or 4176 mixed gender), 1/2 father

412 to husband
1/4 husband, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 5/12 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/2 husband, 1/2 mother/father
1/2 husband, 1/2 (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother, 1/3 father)

412 to wife
1/8 wife, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 13/24 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/4 wife, 3/4 mother/father
1/4 wife, 3/4 (3/4*1/3 = 1/4 mother, 1/2 father)

412 kalala (sibling heirs same gender, no spouse, no child)
1/6 sister/brother + 5/6 parent
1/3 sisters/brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 mother (411), 1/2 father, 1/3 sisters/brothers (if mixed gender siblings distribute 1/3 per 4176)

4176 alkalala (sibling heirs mixed gender; no spouse; no child)
1/2 sister, 1/2 brother/s
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother/s

and if be they of siblings menfolk of and womenfolk (3+)
so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother/s
5/7 five sisters (1/7 each), 2/7 brother/s

(I.e. only if 3+ sisters to male/s same the two females NOT always twice as much!)

411 instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d) so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half and to parents two his/said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left if be for him/said person waladun/offspring so if not that be for him/said person waladun/offspring and inherit him/said person parents dual his/said person so to mother his/said person the third so if be for him/said person sibling so to mother his/said person the sixth from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment fathers yours wa-abnukum/and sons/children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth of what left they from after instruction/will instrucks they in it or judgment and for them the fourth of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight of what left you from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to him/said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth so if be they of more from such so they partners in the third from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if im'ru-on/person perished not is for him/said person waladun/offspring and for him/said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring so if knat/be dual (f/d) ith'natayni/two so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) of what left and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d) shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

Hope this helps to a better understanding; peace and all the best -- Bajram/Eid Abdullah

[Mazhar]

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son/s

But where are sons mentioned in Arabic quote? If she is the only offspring then?

[huruf]

There is not one portion for two women. -there is a portion for each one of them, and that portion of eah one of them is the one alloted the male. There is no such a thing or any hint thereof in the Qur'an that two persons inherit anything jointly. If we twll somebody to make a wire trnasfer to such a person the same as it has been done for ttwo such and such persons, it does not mean double it means like the one that has been made to eahc of them.

There is no "one" portion for two sisters, it is one portion for each sister.

Salaam

[Noon_waalqalami]

But where are sons mentioned in Arabic quote? If she is the only offspring then?

411 to children mixed gender, she cannot be only child which contradicts.

1/2 daughter + 1/4 husband + 1/3 parents = 13/12 or 1.08333333

Only child is thus 1 - (1/4 husband + 1/3 parents) = 5/12 child or children mixed (use 411)

There is no "one" portion for two sisters, it is one portion for each sister.

Salaam

Peace huruf, was your response to anything my prior post; if so which part?

4176 so if knat/be dual two (females) so to them dual the third each

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

and if be they of siblings menfolk of and womenfolk (3+)
so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

[FreedomStands]

I have a Fatwa for you guys. Give your sons daughters whatever you think is best and most right, and Allah will judge you according to your intentions and the justice you tried to do (hopefully).

Giving women a half portion may have been due to urging them towards marriage where their dowry would be another portion of wealth, and it may have been a means to keep a certain social system running more justly and smoothly. These days things have changed, but one message has not changed from the very beginning of human interaction with reality "do what you think is best".

[Noon_waalqalami]

I have a Fatwa for you guys. Give your sons daughters whatever you think is best and most right, and Allah will judge you according to your intentions and the justice you tried to do (hopefully).

Peace, no fatwa necessary simply write will as stated; verses apply to proceeds after will or if no will to avoid family quarrels.

411... from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

Giving women a half portion may have been due to urging them towards marriage where their dowry would be another portion of wealth, and it may have been a means to keep a certain social system running more justly and smoothly. These days things have changed, but one message has not changed from the very beginning of human interaction with reality "do what you think is best".

Not always women get half as much. Here is prior summary again, depending on combination males can actually get less.

411 to children if mixed gender
to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son -- only son twice as much
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each) -- share equally
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each) -- daughters get 3 to 2 or 1.5
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 four sons (1/8 each) -- daughters get twice as much!

(if two daughters to male/s same the two females NOT always to male/s twice as much!)

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each) -- daughters get twice as much!

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each) -- only daughter gets twice as much!
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each) -- only daughter gets three times!

411 to parents if child
1/3 parents (1/6 each), 3/4 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children distribute 3/4 per above)

411 to parents no child and both parents alive
1/3 mother, 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/6 sibling (412), 2/3 father
1/6 mother, 1/3 siblings (412 same gender or 4176 mixed gender), 1/2 father

412 to husband
1/4 husband, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 5/12 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/2 husband, 1/2 mother/father
1/2 husband, 1/2 (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother, 1/3 father)

412 to wife
1/8 wife, 1/3 parents (1/6 each), 13/24 daughter/s or son/s (if mixed gender children use 411)
1/4 wife, 3/4 mother/father
1/4 wife, 3/4 (3/4*1/3 = 1/4 mother, 1/2 father)

412 kalala (sibling heirs same gender, no spouse, no child)
1/6 sister/brother + 5/6 parent
1/3 sisters/brothers + 2/3 parent
1/6 mother (411), 1/2 father, 1/3 sisters/brothers (if mixed gender siblings distribute 1/3 per 4176)

4176 alkalala (sibling heirs mixed gender; no spouse; no child)
1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each) -- only sister gets twice as much!
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each) -- only sister gets three times!

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each) -- sisters get twice as much!
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each) -- sisters get three times!

and if be they of siblings menfolk of and womenfolk (3+)
so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

(if 3+ sisters to male/s same the two females NOT always males get twice as much!)

411 instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours to the male similitude apportion the two (f/d) so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d) so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half and to parents two his/said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left if be for him/said person waladun/offspring so if not that be for him/said person waladun/offspring and inherit him/said person parents dual his/said person so to mother his/said person the third so if be for him/said person sibling so to mother his/said person the sixth from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment fathers yours wa-abnukum/and sons/children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth of what left they from after instruction/will instrucks they in it or judgment and for them the fourth of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight of what left you from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to him/said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth so if be they of more from such so they partners in the third from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if im'ru-on/person perished not is for him/said person waladun/offspring and for him/said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring so if knat/be dual (f/d) ith'natayni/two so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) of what left and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d) shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

[FreedomStands]

God, its not that complicated haha.

[runninglikezebras]

People should be aware these verses in Quran about inheritance are text manipulations to the Quran

Noticing that the back of Folio 20 contains 25 lines instead of the usual 22 or so, and most importantly considering that the first 6 are too wordy and too broad at the same time, David S. Powers concludes that the last verse of Sura 4, verse 176, was added at the time the copy of this manuscript was first made. How does he arrive at such a conclusion? It is because this legalistic verse has no connection whatsoever with what precedes. And, most significantly, because it introduces a new doctrine in matters of inheritance laws. Everything revolves around the word kal?lah which only appears here and previously in the same Sura (verse 12).
But Powers remarked that a serious problem surfaces in Q 412. There a word has been rewritten, and we can see that the scratched word is kallah, which means sister-in-law

http//rootsofislamtruehistory.com/subpages/Codicology_and_suspected_verses_files/kallah.png

By making up a new word (unknown in Arabic but not in Syro-aramaic 32), kal?lah, and giving it the meaning of ?without descendants?, the manipulators of the Koran were obeying legal requirements in matters of inheritance to sacralize them by means of the Koran, they changed the meaning and the consonants of the word appearing in 412 provided the explanation to their new legal doctrine in the last verse (176)33. This is how Powers found that ?verses were added, revised, and /or removed from the text? and that ?the consonantal skeleton of the Qur??n remained open and fluid for three-quarters of a century? 34.

From http//rootsofislamtruehistory.com/subpages/Codicology_and_suspected_verses.htm - Chapter 7

[Noon_waalqalami]

People should be aware these verses in Quran about inheritance are text manipulations to the Quran

Peace,

The hypothesis OR rant by David Powers that early followers who memorized Qur'an would purposely insert text OR that he re-interprets kalala 412 to its correct meaning as ?daughter in law? is absurd; simply insert in text to see that it is nonsense and makes no sense ? likewise do the math.

412
To husband
and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them offspring
so if be for them offspring so for you the fourth of what left they
from after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment

To wife
and for them the fourth of what left you if not that be for you offspring
so if be for you offspring so to them the eight of what left you
from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment

Kalala case (no spouse; no child) single gender sibling/s ? note logical OR function!

and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala or im'ra-atun/woman
and to said person brother or sister so to each one of them dual the sixth

1 sister & parent/s
OR
1 brother & parent/s

so if be they of more from such so they partners in the third

2+ sisters & parent/s
OR
2+ brothers & parent/s

from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176 Kalala case "mixed" gender siblings

seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerining al-kalala if person perished not is for said person offspring and for said person sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her offspring

1 sister & brother/s

so if be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. two sisters) so to them dual the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) of what left

2 sisters & brother/s

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+) so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3+ sisters & brother/s

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

[McKenna36]

Peace McKenna36,

The quagmire was kalala and case of when there are exactly two daughters and likewise three+ sisters?

Only way to resolve was 411 mixed gender children; 412 same gender sibling/s; 4176 mixed gender siblings.

In addition kalala refers to an indirect heir (sibling/s) who only inherit if there is no spouse and no child/walad (4176).

I am not sure if I understand you well brother. Please confirm; so basically your claim is that in order to solve this problem we should assume that 411 is for mixed gender children, 412 for same gender children and 4176 for mixed gender children again? On what basis do you claim so? I don't know arabic but looking at english translation there is no such distinction as you claim

[Noon_waalqalami]

I am not sure if I understand you well brother. Please confirm; so basically your claim is that in order to solve this problem we should assume (verify) that 411 is for mixed gender children, 412 for same gender children (siblings i.e. brother/s OR sister/s) and 4176 for mixed gender children (siblings brothers AND sisters) again? On what basis do you claim so? I don't know arabic but looking at english translation there is no such distinction as you claim

Peace McKenna36, please see my comments above in parentheses verify yourself each Arabic/English word given.

411 ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d) so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (daughters) fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (f) falahunna/so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left and if knat/be she (f/s) widatan/one (f/s) so for her (i.e. daughter) al-ni'fu/the half wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left if be for said person waladun/offspring so if not that be for said person waladun/offspring and inherit said person abawhu/parents dual said person (if both parents are alive) so to mother said person the third so if be for said person sibling so to mother said person the sixth from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment fathers yours wa-abnukum/and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth of what left they (f/p) from after instruction/will instructs they (f/p) in it or judgment and for them the fourth of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight of what left you from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or ukh'tun/sister so to each one of them dual the sixth so if be they of more from such so they partners in the third from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person waladun/offspring and for said person ukh'tun/sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) falahum/so to them dual (f/d) al-thuluthni/the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) of what left and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f) shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

[McKenna36]

411 ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d) so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (daughters) fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (f) falahunna/so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left and if knat/be she (f/s) widatan/one (f/s) so for her (i.e. daughter) al-ni'fu/the half wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left if be for said person waladun/offspring so if not that be for said person waladun/offspring and inherit said person abawhu/parents dual said person (if both parents are alive) so to mother said person the third so if be for said person sibling so to mother said person the sixth from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment fathers yours wa-abnukum/and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412 and for you half what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth of what left they (f/p) from after instruction/will instructs they (f/p) in it or judgment and for them the fourth of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight of what left you from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or ukh'tun/sister so to each one of them dual the sixth so if be they of more from such so they partners in the third from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person waladun/offspring and for said person ukh'tun/sister so for her half what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) falahum/so to them dual (f/d) al-thuluthni/the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) of what left and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f) shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

Sorry Noon waalqalami that I am such a pain in the ass but I really want to understand it and I still don't get your explanation.

so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (daughters) fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (f) falahunna/so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

So three daughters are to be given 2/3 of the inheritance.

wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left if be for said person waladun/offspring

So parents get 1/3 of inheritance since there are offsprings(3 daughters)

so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight of what left you from after instruction/will

So if there is wife(and there are children) she should get 1/8 of inheritance.

All those sums up to 9/8. More than one. So where is my misunderstanding? I cannot get your explanation no matter how many times i read that.

[Noon_waalqalami]

Sorry Noon waalqalami that I am such a pain in the ass but I really want to understand it and I still don't get your explanation.

OK

So three daughters are to be given 2/3 of the inheritance.

Yes in relation to males/sons e.g.

411 ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours
to the male similitude apportion the two (feminine dual)

To apply above need 2+ daughters and 1+ sons (i.e. cannot be applied to 1 daughter and 1+ sons).

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (3+) above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

Hence have all information to distribute any combination of daughter/s + son/s.

So parents get 1/3 of inheritance since there are offsprings(3 daughters)

Yes.

So if there is wife(and there are children) she should get 1/8 of inheritance.

Yes.

All those sums up to 9/8. More than one. So where is my misunderstanding? I cannot get your explanation no matter how many times i read that.

No.

1 - {1/8 wife + 1/3 parents (1/6 each)} = 13/24 to child/children
(if mixed gender children then use 411 above to distribute 13/24)

13/24 * 2/3 = 13/36 three daughters
13/24 * 1/3 = 13/72 son/s

Clear?

[McKenna36]

Thanks for your reply. I got your explanation now. However I still have questions; why do you claim that 2/3(of 2+ daugthers inheritage) is ratio to male inheritage and not a 2/3 of whole inheritage?

so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

This part implies it's 2/3 of the whole and not a ratio to male. Very same word is used is used more like here

wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one of them dual the sixth of what left

and for you half what left

And many times more.

[Noon_waalqalami]

Thanks for your reply. I got your explanation now. However I still have questions; why do you claim that 2/3(of 2+ daugthers inheritage) is ratio to male inheritage and not a 2/3 of whole inheritage?

This part implies it's 2/3 of the whole and not a ratio to male. Very same word is used is used more like here

Peace McKenna36, you are welcome and thank you for the questions perhaps it will help everyone.

It?s not 2+ daughters ? it's over two i.e. when 3+ daughters.

so if be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk above two (f/d)
so for them (f/p) third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

An Arabic-English Lexicon By Edward William Lane
thus one says, i. e. Ten is above nine; meaning ten exceeds nine.

It's a ratio of females to males not only females else no instructions for exactly two?

Read in context think of it as computer program daughters (2, 3+, and 1) + son/s.

411 yskumu/instructs you the god in awldikum/offspring yours

(Start case children)
lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

ELSE IF kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk (daughters) fawqa/above two (f)
falahunna/so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) what left

AND IF knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half
(End case children)

Likewise ratio mixed gender siblings 4176 not 1 and 2 sisters else where's 3+ sisters?
Likewise if sole sister does she get the 1/6 per verse 412 or the 1/2 per verse 4176?

Here is a summary again, read carefully the precise wording fixed/variable from whole.

411
To children
ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (f) so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) m/what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

To parents
wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one min'hum/of them dual the sixth mimm/of what left if be for said person waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/3 parents (fixed 1/6 each) = 2/3 child/children (if mixed gender children use ratio females to males above to distribute 2/3)

so if not that be for said person waladun/offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (i.e. if both parents are alive) so to mother said person the third

1 ? 1/3 mother (fixed) = 2/3 father (variable)

so if be for said person sibling so to mother said person the sixth

1 ? 1/6 mother (fixed) ? 1/6 sibling (fixed 412) = 2/3 father (variable)

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

fathers yours wa-abnukum/and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
To husband
and for you half m/what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/2 husband (fixed) = 1/2 parent/s (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother fixed 411 + 1/3 father (variable))

so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth mimm/of what left they

1 ? 1/4 husband (fixed) ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each fixed 411) = 5/12 child/children (if mixed use ratio 411)

min/from after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment

To wife
and for them the fourth mimm/of what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/4 wife (fixed) = 3/4 parent/s (3/4*1/3 = 1/4 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father (variable)

so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight mimm/of what left you

1 ? 1/8 wife (fixed) ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each fixed 411) = 7/12 child/children (if mixed use ratio 411)

min/from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment

Kalala case (i.e. no spouse; single gender siblings
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or ukh'tun/sister so to each one of them dual the sixth

1 ? 1/6 sibling = 5/6 parent (variable; both parents not alive)
1 ? 1/6 sibling = 5/6 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 2/3 father (variable))

so if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third

1 ? 1/3 siblings = 2/3 parent (varialbe, both parents not alive)
1 ? 1/3 siblings = 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father (variable))

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment
other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

Kalala case mixed gender siblings
4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person waladun/offspring and for said person ukh'tun/sister so for her half m/what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings (1/3*1/2 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 brother/s)

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents {1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father} = 1/3 siblings (see above)

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) mimm/of what left

2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 two sisters (1/3 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings {1/3*2/3 = 2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/6 brother/s}

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father) = 1/3 siblings (see above)

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

IF parent
1 - 2/3 parent (variable) = 1/3 siblings {1/3*3/5 = 1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s}

IF both parents alive
1 - 2/3 parents (1/6 mother (fixed 411) + 1/2 father) = 1/3 siblings (see above)

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

[Noon_waalqalami]

Peace, correction 411 ikh'watun (3+ plural; at least 1 male) changes distribution to mother (siblings and parents).

411
To children
ykumu/instructs you the god in/concerning awldikum/offspring yours lildhakari/to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f/d)

1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 son
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 two daughters (1/4 each), 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

so if kunna/be (f/p) nisan/womenfolk fawqa/above ith'natayni/two (f) so for them (f/p) thuluth/third dual (1/3 x 2 = 2/3) m/what left

2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 son
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 three daughters (2/9 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 son
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 two sons (1/6 each)
2/3 four daughters (1/6 each), 1/3 three sons (1/9 each)

and if knat/be she (f/s) whidatan/one (f/s) so for her the half

1/2 daughter, 1/2 son
1/2 daughter, 1/2 two sons (1/4 each)
1/2 daughter, 1/2 three sons (1/6 each)

To parents
wali-abawayhi/and to parents two said person to each one min'hum/of them dual the sixth mimm/from what left if be for said person waladun/offspring

1 ? 1/6 parent = 5/6 child/children
1 ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each) = 2/3 child/children

If mixed gender children use ratio females to males above to distribute 2/3
1/3 two daughters (1/6 each) + 1/3 son/s
2/32/3 = 4/9 three daughters (4/27 each) + 2/9 son/s
2/31/2 = 1/3 daughter + 1/3 son/s

so if not that be for said person waladun/offspring and inherit said person parents dual said person (i.e. if both parents are alive) so to mother said person the third

1/3 mother + 2/3 father

so if kna/be for said person ikh'watun/siblings (plural i.e. 3+ brothers (see 412), 2+ brothers & sister, 1+ brother/s & 2+ sisters (see 4176)) so to mother said person the sixth

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

fathers yours wa-abnukum/and children yours not thou knowing which of them closer to you benefit of obligation from the god surely the god be knowledgeable wisdom of

412
To husband
and for you half m/what left azwjukum/spouses yours if not that be for them (f/p) waladun/offspring

1/2 husband + 1/2 parent/s (1/2*1/3 = 1/6 mother (411) + 1/3 father)

so if be for them waladun/offspring so for you the fourth mimm/from what left they

1/4 husband + 1/6 parent (411) + 7/12 child/children (if mixed gender use female to male ratio 411)
1/4 husband + 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) + 5/12 child/children

min/from after instruction/will instructs they in it or judgment

To wife
and for them the fourth mimm/from what left you if not that be for you waladun/offspring

1/4 wife + 3/4 parent/s (1/3 mother (411) + 5/12 father)

so if be for you waladun/offspring so to them the eight mimm/from what left you

1 - 1/8 wife ? 1/6 parent = 17/24 child/children (if mixed gender children use ratio 411)
1 - 1/8 wife ? 1/3 parents (1/6 each 411) = 13/24 child/children

min/from after instruction/will thou making in it or judgment

Kalala case (i.e. no spouse; no child) single gender sibling/s
and if be rajulun/man inherits kalala (sibling heir; no spouse; no child) or im'ra-atun/woman and to said person brother or ukh'tun/sister so to each one of them dual the sixth

1/6 brother/sister + 5/6 parent/s (5/6*1/3 = 5/18 mother (411) + 5/9 father)

so if kn/be they of more from such so they partners in the third

1/3 two brothers/sisters + 2/3 parent/s (2/31/3 = 2/9 mother (411) + 4/9 father)
1/3 three+ sisters + 2/3 parent/s (2/31/3 = 2/9 mother (411) + 4/9 father)
1/3 three+ brothers + 1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father

min/from after instruction/will instructs in it or judgment

other than harmful instruction/will from the god and the god knower tolerant

Kalala case mixed gender siblings
4176 seek ruling your say the god gives ruling you in/concerning al-kalala (the sibling heir; no spouse; no child) if person perished not is for said person waladun/offspring and for said person ukh'tun/sister so for her half m/what left and he inherits her if not that be for her waladun/offspring

1/2 sister, 1/2 brother
1/2 sister, 1/2 two brothers (1/4 each)
1/2 sister, 1/2 three brothers (1/6 each)

1/3 (1/21/3 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 brother) + 2/3 parent/s (2/9 mother (411) + 4/9 father)
1/3 (1/21/3 = 1/6 sister + 1/6 two+ brothers) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father)

so if knat/be dual ith'natayni/two (i.e. exactly two sisters) so to them dual (f/d) the third each (1/3 + 1/3 = 2/3) mimm/from what left

1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 brother
1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
1 - 2/3 two sisters (1/3 each) = 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

1/3 (2/3*1/3 = 2/9 two sisters (1/9 each) + 1/6 brother) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father)

and if be they of ikh'watan/siblings rijlan/menfolk of wanisan/and womenfolk (3+ sisters) falildhakari/so to the male similitude apportion al-unthayayni/the two (f)

3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 brother
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 two brothers (1/5 each)
3/5 three sisters (1/5 each), 2/5 three brothers (2/15 each)

2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 brother
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 two brothers (1/6 each)
2/3 four sisters (1/6 each), 1/3 three brothers (1/9 each)

1/3 siblings (1/3*3/5 = 1/5 three sisters (1/15 each) + 2/15 brother/s) + 2/3 parent/s (1/6 mother (411) + 1/2 father)

shows the god for you lest stray ye of and the god in every thing knower

[McKenna36]

Thank you Noon waalqalami. I really liked your explanation because this "error" was what kept me in distance the most in the whole Quran. If I'll ever be in paradise that will be thanks to you. Although i still have some questions

1. what does " what left" stands for in the line for situation when there are above two girls. It's also used in other verses and there it stands for inheritage, not ratio.

2. What is exactly meaning of " " at the beginning of the same line mentioned before? Is it exactly "else if"? I couldn't find meaning in internet(I cannot really find good arabic dictionary online for studying Quran)

3. " lildhakari/to the male " Is singular isn't it? I wonder if your division is right. It seems to be not practical nor just that if you have a lot of brothers then you take less than your sister. I guess Quran commands to be more inherited by boys due to the fact that in actually all the societies man is main provider of family. Woman takes dowry and isn't obligated(as man is) to provide for partner. So what i think is that Quran might propose just ratio(with the example of one son) and we should follow it, no matter how many children there are. So it would look like that
   x-number of girls
   y-number of boys

x=<2y then each girl will take half of what a boy get
x>2y then all the girls will get 2/3 of what boys get

1 son
1,2 sisters -> each get half of what son got
3,4,5.... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what son got

2 sons
1,2,3,4 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
5,6,7,8...... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what sons got

3 sons
1,2,3,4,5,6 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
7,8,9,10,11,12...... sisters -> they get 2/3 of what sons got

etc.

OR(I don't know which one due to my language but both makes sense)

x-number of girls
y-number of boys

x=<2y then each girl will take half of what a boy get
x>2y then all the girls will get twice(2/3 for girls, 1/3 for boys) of what boys get

1 son
1,2 sisters -> each get half of what son got
3,4,5.... sisters -> they get twice of what son got

2 sons
1,2,3,4 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
5,6,7,8...... sisters -> they get twice of what sons got

3 sons
1,2,3,4,5,6 sisters -> each get half of what one son got
7,8,9,10,11,12...... sisters -> they get twice of what sons got

etc.

If " lildhakari/to the male" is singular then Quran if fact depicts only one situation; when there is one boy and depending on how many sisters he has Quran says how we should divide money. With this example of justly* division we can divide money to children in any situation(with formula given above). And the spirit, logic etc. of Quran's example is kept. Your proposition on the other hand looks kind of like an arbitrary formula and it's hard to find why it's look like that(instead of just giving every children same money if in some situations girl takes more and in some boys). And then again I don't know arabic so maybe my proposition is just wrong.

• Some might argue that giving more to boys than girls is unjust but as we see in situation with one son for God it is just indeed. And I kind of agree with that. In almost all societies during all history(including today's western Europe) man is the one financially resposible for family and and that's why he would get more. I guess that's just human nature and that's why God commands so. It's hard to marry for a poor man in poor societies but woman usually don't have such problems no matter of their wealth. So man's money would somehow crucial for the wealth of family and woman's money would be an "extra income". So by God's command in more than 60% of situations just decision is giving a boy twice as many as to girl. However sometimes among sibling girls might be overrepresented(more than twice the number of the boys) and then "minimum" inheritage is saved(because no difference if there are 3 sisters or 10) for the boy(money with which he is obligated to provide for family) and girls need to share what's left for them. If there would be 1 brother and 10 sisters, the man would get almost nothing even though he is financially responsible for his family, doesn't get any dowry etc.

I know it wouldn't be popular among feminists but there are things I don't like neither in Quran but God knows best.