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  4. al salat al wusta - a common mistake

al salat al wusta - a common mistake

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  • R Offline
    R Offline
    redsulphur1229
    wrote on last edited by
    #21

    One theory for the distinction between mentioning salats (plural) and then salat ul wusta is that, while salat ul fajr and salat ul isha (mentioned in 2458, and named in accordance with their timings) are mentioned with their times, one of them is superior to the other. This theory is derived from 1778 - "Observe Prayer at the declining and paling of the sun on to the darkness of the night, and recite the Quran at morning (fajr).? Here only salat ul isha is technically mentioned, and thus singled out. At fajr, only reciting the Quran is mentioned. Since in 11;114 it states "And establish Prayer at the edges of the day and in proximity to the night (zulfun layl)?, only 2 prayer times, and the second prayer time aligns with the prayer time mentioned in 1778, salat ul isha must be the superior salat.

    While I am not a proponent of the historical, some commentators have stated that the Muslim morning prayer was tolerated by the Meccan pagans, but the evening prayer took place at the same time as certain pagan prayer ceremonies, and was not so tolerated, making the evening prayer the more difficult of the two to perform, thereby perhaps indicating its greater importance. Regardless of whether that is true, for some reason, 1778 only mentions one prayer time, which aligns with the second prayer time mentioned in 11114, and has been singled out. The only explanation for this singling out that I know of is to take the view that "wusta" is indicating the superiority of one salat over the other, for whatever reason.

    While I have noted that the Quran required the Messenger to pray/prostrate during the night, it appears to only require this of him (as with other messengers before him) but not of non-messengers. In this vein, worth pondering are the following
    -calling upon the Lord morning (ghadat0 and evening (isha) in 652 and 1828 (I note that the word fajr is not used for morning, but I note 2 specific times mentioned).
    -remembrance of Allah morning (ghuduw) and evening (asal) ( I note fajr and isha are not used, but again, I note 2 specific times).

    Curious?

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    • U Offline
      U Offline
      unknownuser
      wrote on last edited by
      #22

      Peace all

      But what they fail to notice is that "salat al wusta" does not exist in Quran, it is actually "al salat al wusta" (see here)

      Great point.I never realized it before if al-salawat and al wusta in 2238 is written separately each other because there is no conjunctive between them.This means the word al-salawat and al wusta in 2238 is not related each other.

      This also supported well by verse 11114, 1315, 1718

      1. 1315
        "early morning ( dawn) and late afternoon ( dusk)"

      2. 17.18 Decline the sun until darkness of layl (the meaning of night according to Quran is in 914) and fajr (dawn)

      3. 11114
        "(two) end of the day and appoarch/nearness of layl"

      So this means our salat only two times per day and in dawn and dusk, but I want ask questions

      1. If wusta in 2238 didn't mean middle salat, So what is wusta in 2238??

      2. According to corpusquran the word tarafayi in 11114 is "nominative masculine dual noun" and (Isim marfu/ a noun which face isim rafa'i)

      /tarafayi means end, edge, terminal, party, side.This word translated as "two end" in corpusquran.

      The problem is this word actually is not included in isim marfu because the rule of isim rafa'i is the last word end with dhammah.

      • How is dual noun in tarafayi??
      • From where the word "two" came from??
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      • WakasW Offline
        WakasW Offline
        Wakas
        wrote on last edited by
        #23

        peace all,

        red,
        It could be argued 1778 implies the quran-al-fajr is "superior" as it is "witnessed". To me, salat-al-fajr is being substituted for quran-al-fajr here, i.e. they are the same thing. In any case, I dont think there is much evidence for "wusta" meaning "superior".

        earthdom,
        reply #10 may help answer some of your Qs.

        All information is correct to the best of my knowledge only and thus should not be taken as a fact. One should always seek knowledge and verify for themselves when possible: 17:36, 20:114, 35:28, 49:6, 58:11.

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        • M Offline
          M Offline
          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #24

          Peace Mazhar

          I was of the same view as Wakas, on the difference between the terms salat al fajr & isha and al salat al wusta, on the face of it. Can you please explain the reason for not treating these terms as different ?

          Also what is your opinion on the al salawati in the beginning of the sentence, the only time this form is used in the Quran ?

          http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/00.Arabic%20Text/2.238p.gif

          You people remain vigilant regards the plural number of As-sa'laat Time Bound Protocol of Servitude and allegiance; and be vigilant for the As-sa'laat which is relatively central to other four Formal Timings.

          And you people stand for Allah the Exalted like devoted humble servants.

          This sentence is what we call in English grammar as "Compound sentence" by structure. A compound sentence is one which has two independent clauses joined together by a conjunction. In Arabic it is easy to determine the clauses by looking at the case endings.

          Prepositional Phrase relates to the Verb. is the definite PLURAL noun. Plural Noun in Arabic quantitatively denotes three and more. It does not denote two. By appositive conjunction same command is given for yet another ; for which reason this definite noun denoting only One Formal demonstrative servitude and allegiance is in genitive case. It is First Noun of Adjectival Phrase. Its adjectival description is given by which is a Comparative Noun; Definite; Singular; feminine; genitive, exactly matching on all counts with the described one. Its Root is " ". For convenience, an entry from Lane's Lexicon is reproduced hereunder

          properly, the part of which several lateral, or outer, portions are equal; as, for instance, the middle finger but also meaning the part which is surrounded, or enclosed, on its several sides, although unequally (Msb) or the part that is between the two sides or extremities of a thing; (M, IB, Mgh, K as, for instance, the centre of a circle]

          salat al fajr It is a possessive phrase. The possessive phrase's peculiarity is that its first noun never has Tanween nor has definite article prefixed to it. It draws its definiteness from the second noun. Thereby, semantically it is definite noun like . It means The Salat of the Fajar.

          Further you may like to see here

          It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day

          Please carefully watch that Lane has intelligently put some words in parentheses because middle in English also denotes something in between two which is certainly not the perception of Wusta in Arabic.

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          • W Offline
            W Offline
            warner
            wrote on last edited by
            #25

            Peace Wakas

            The verses 1777 to 17 81 seem like a direct address to the Messenger, if that is the case will the witnessing be applicable to anyone reading the Quran at Fajr ?

            Also it is not al quran al fajr as al salat al fajr , it is quran al fajr.

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            • T Offline
              T Offline
              Timur
              wrote on last edited by
              #26

              Peace warner.

              It is not al salat al fajr either I think you should reread the point made by Wakas.

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              • W Offline
                W Offline
                warner
                wrote on last edited by
                #27

                You are correct Timur.

                What I wanted to indicate was it is quran al fajr. The al salat al fajr there is by a mistake.

                That sentence was not directed as a reply to Wakas.

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                • U Offline
                  U Offline
                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #28

                  Peace all

                  earthdom,
                  reply #10 may help answer some of your Qs.

                  Wakas, if I found the answer in that thread, I even don't need to ask this questions.But just forget it, I will do my own research first.

                  properly, the part of which several lateral, or outer, portions are equal; as, for instance, the middle finger but also meaning the part which is surrounded, or enclosed, on its several sides, although unequally (Msb) or the part that is between the two sides or extremities of a thing; (M, IB, Mgh, K as, for instance, the centre of a circle]

                  Mazhar, yes wustha means middle and after I re-opened Lane Lexicon, this word is used in many situations and not just limited on "middle of day".

                  So al salatulwusta literally means "Salat of the middle", because I don't know excatly what is wustha in 2238 because it has no following explanation in that verse.

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                  • M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Mazhar
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #29

                    Mazhar, yes wustha means middle and after I re-opened Lane Lexicon, this word is used in many situations and not just limited on "middle of day".

                    So al salatulwusta literally means "Salat of the middle", because I don't know excatly what is wustha in 2238 because it has no following explanation in that verse.

                    The comparative noun is self explanatory, it does not need furether elucidation. It is adjectival description of the head noun As-Salaat-definite noun. It thus denotes That particular Salaat which has two As-Salaat on its both sides. Two As-Salat of new lunar day that begins with Sunset and two As-Salat of the Day on its both sides.

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                    • W Offline
                      W Offline
                      warner
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #30

                      Peace

                      To bring out the exact meaning of the word wusta, we can take a close look at how the word/root is used in other places in the Quran.

                      The verses 2143, 589 and 6828 brings out the meanings "above the average, above or better than the rest" . Also it is always used in a comparative sense.

                      And these meanings are supported by Lanes too.

                      These 3 verses give us a better indication of the meaning of this word than 2238. I do not see middle being the main definition conveyed by the usage of this word in the Quran.

                      For instance this definition of middle for wusta without consideration to other usages in the Quran has led to translating "ummatan wasatan" in 2143 as middle nation , middle people etc by many translators. Honestly what is middle people ?

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                      • M Offline
                        M Offline
                        Mazhar
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #31

                        Peace

                        To bring out the exact meaning of the word wusta, we can take a close look at how the word/root is used in other places in the Quran.

                        The verses 2143, 589 and 6828 brings out the meanings "above the average, above or better than the rest" . Also it is always used in a comparative sense.

                        And these meanings are supported by Lanes too.

                        These 3 verses give us a better indication of the meaning of this word than 2238. I do not see middle being the main definition conveyed by the usage of this word in the Quran.

                        For instance this definition of middle for wusta without consideration to other usages in the Quran has led to translating "ummatan wasatan" in 2143 as middle nation , middle people etc by many translators. Honestly what is middle people ?

                        May be divinely proportioned

                        Wiki

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                        • W Offline
                          W Offline
                          warner
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #32

                          Peace Mazhar

                          That is clever.

                          But you neatly avoided mathematical mean or simply average.

                          Also there are other words could have been used bayna /in between in 17110 and middle/ moderate in 3532 , 4447.

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                          • M Offline
                            M Offline
                            Mazhar
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #33

                            "bayna" is between two entities only. Wusta is thereby different since it has more equations and references to its extremities on both sides.

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                            • J Offline
                              J Offline
                              Jane
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #34

                              I agree that 'balanced prayer' referring to doing it evenly, steadfast and not secretly or too loud makes more sense than a 'middle of the day prayer' as a translation. There does seem to be strong quranic and bible evidence for praying/communing morning and evening i.e. twice a day.

                              This is what I concluded after stopping the 5 prayers as recommended by Rashad Khalifa and switching to doing it 3 times a day as recommended articulately by Edip Yuksel....but this didn't feel right. Then it was twice a day, at dawn & sunset until I decided the dawn 'prayer' mentioned in the Quran refers to Muhammed reciting it for the believers to listen to. Which obviously we can't take part in but I figured I could copy this by stopping the dawn prayer and reading the Quran instead. But it felt fake and tiresome to wake myself up with an alarm at 5am and have to read and concentrate and then be unable to fall back asleep and toss and turn until 8am to go to work/college already exhausted for the day. Especially since I'm a night owl and the forced early morning waking seems to go against my physiology.

                              So I stopped doing anything in the morning, just praying at sunset/bedtime. Now I sleep a lot better but I feel guilty for not doing anything in the morning. Just waking up and getting on with my day feels ungrateful. I am wondering if I should read the Quran and/or praying after letting myself sleep in, even if it is like 10am when I finally wake up, rather than just doing nothing...

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                              • W Offline
                                W Offline
                                warner
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #35

                                "bayna" is between two entities only. Wusta is thereby different since it has more equations and references to its extremities on both sides.

                                Peace

                                You will agree, to determine the meaning of a word, its usage in the Quran should take precedence over any lexicon, dictionary etc. These were written much after the Quran, with meanings evolving over time and also being corrupted and influenced by traditional interpretations.

                                As far as Wusta is concerned it is not used as ?middle? in other verses in the Quran.

                                Thanks for clarifying byna, I always used to think it means ?between? and not always limited by two entities/persons etc as used in 2213, 2224, 319. ( anyway this is not relevant to this subject matter)

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                                • M Offline
                                  M Offline
                                  Mazhar
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #36

                                  Peace

                                  You will agree, to determine the meaning of a word, its usage in the Quran should take precedence over any lexicon, dictionary etc. These were written much after the Quran, with meanings evolving over time and also being corrupted and influenced by traditional interpretations.

                                  As far as Wusta is concerned it is not used as ?middle? in other verses in the Quran.

                                  Thanks for clarifying byna, I always used to think it means ?between? and not always limited by two entities/persons etc as used in 2213, 2224, 319. ( anyway this is not relevant to this subject matter)

                                  It is always extremely difficult to manipulate in Lexicons and the grammar of a language. They can however err in selecting a word of target language that is somewhat nearer to original word. Moreover, Qur'aan is the only book that has inbuilt lexicon for its important words and terms.

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                                  • M Offline
                                    M Offline
                                    Man_of_Faith
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #37

                                    Fare thee well,

                                    Why not pray regular prayers throughout the day. Even if you interpret it as only one prayer or whatever, is God not worth your attention several times per day?

                                    God bless you

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                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      Mazhar
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #38

                                      Peace Mazhar

                                      That is clever.

                                      But you neatly avoided mathematical mean or simply average.

                                      Also there are other words could have been used bayna /in between in 17110 and middle/ moderate in 3532 , 4447.

                                      Every word of Qur'aan portrays infallible reality and fact. The word choice is the tool to relate realities exactly--like mathematical calculations.

                                      Please see the day and location of As-SalatilWusta in the diagram and calculate whether or not it portrays what is signified by Wusta for the whole year.

                                      http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/8.%20Deen%20Constitution%20Islam%20and%20its%20protocols/Protocols%20of%20Islam/Salat%20timings.jpg

                                      Its Root is " ". For convenience, an entry from Lane's Lexicon is reproduced hereunder

                                      properly, the part of which several lateral, or outer, portions are equal; as, for instance, the middle finger but also meaning the part which is surrounded, or enclosed, on its several sides, although unequally (Msb or the part that is between the two sides or extremities of a thing; (M, IB, Mgh, K as, for instance, the centre of a circle]

                                      AsSalat It is a time bound protocol. Number and the appointed timings for its performance during a day

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                                      • W Offline
                                        W Offline
                                        warner
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #39

                                        Peace Mazhar

                                        Which one is wusta ? maghrib, Luhar or asar ?

                                        Agree with you on the Qurans word choice, and for the same reason it is clear wusta is not middle.

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                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #40

                                          Five are mentioned. One which has the adjectival characteristic of Wusta is also indicated. Pl see again.

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