Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Users
Skins
  • Light
  • Brite
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Free Minds Forum Icon
  1. Home
  2. General Issues / Questions
  3. General Issues / Questions
  4. Are we going the wrong way ?

Are we going the wrong way ?

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved General Issues / Questions
155 Posts 24 Posters 5.1k Views
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • B Offline
    B Offline
    Bigmo
    wrote on last edited by
    #131

    Salaam Bigmo,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I do agree with you that looking at early Sunni sources does suggest a variance. My cousin was reading a book that suggested that ramadan used to be fixed in February but was changed by the caliph Umar and I also read about their being 2 main prayers which then changed to 5 and then there is a whole host of stuff which can be construed very differently.

    Would you be able to suggest books that explore this aspect of early Islam? I would like to read more about it and would appreciate your insights.

    Many thanks!

    Try starting with Juynboll, Schacht, Patricia Crone and other orientalist.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • L Offline
      L Offline
      Liha
      wrote on last edited by
      #132

      Have read Juynboll & Schacht not familiar with Patricia Crone. Thanks!

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • P Offline
        P Offline
        PixelAngelBaby
        wrote on last edited by
        #133

        I know that if we search hadiths everything would be "clear" but in a bad-corrupted way. But in other side if we follow Quran alone we have many many different rules contradicting each other and at the same time we are breaking 5417. So where are we wrong ? Anyone has any explanation ?

        After watching QuranVsHadith on youtube, I've learned a lot more about the science and history of hadith. I have come to the conclusion that REGARDLESS of following hadith or Quran, people will always pick and choose and have their views. Everyone will personalize their own deen.

        Why is that? Well for example, we are under the illusion that hadiths provide solid detailed instructions and information on how to live ourlives and carry out our deen. WRONG. If you open up the book of Sahih Bukhari, and look at the so called authentic hadiths on how to pray, you will find it impossible to even start the takbeer in the beginning of the prayer without some kind of personal view or picking which hadith you want to follow. The reason for that is there are MULTIPLE contradictions in the hadith. If one says prophet Muhammad did so and so, the next one negates it and so forth. So how can one pray according to hadith?

        However, on the other hand, the Quran has NO CONTRADICTIONS. The only contradictions are among the people in how they CHOOSE/PERCIEVE/UNDERSTAND the verses in the Quran. This is why there are variations in islamic practices within the quran only community as well as all the muslims around the world.

        The only reason why each sect has an established system is due to the early scholars/ullamah that LEAD/SPARKED their own consensus on how Islam should be practiced, by their OWN interpretation and understanding of the Quran and Hadith.

        Humans are fallible. We are given a divine scripture and told to ponder on it, read it and apply it. We will never get it right 100%. I've come to conclusion that there is no perfect way of doing it. But just do it the best way that we can while being HONEST to ourselves (not read into the verses and try to see what we want to see).

        Allah himself said there are verses that are basic and fundamental which are clear and others which are allegorical and only Allah knows what those allegorical verses mean.

        I think TRUTH is SINGLE like you said. Don't forget that among Allah's 99 names is THE Truth!

        Therefore Allah is the only TRUTH. So I guess you will only find your answers with Him. Allah Only knows. Allah forgive me for any mistakes I may have said.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • H Offline
          H Offline
          hawk99
          wrote on last edited by
          #134

          Try starting with Juynboll, Schacht, Patricia Crone and other orientalist.

          Peace Bigmo,

          What's an "orientalist."

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • M Offline
            M Offline
            mmkhan
            wrote on last edited by
            #135

            I think TRUTH is SINGLE like you said. Don't forget that among Allah's 99 names is THE Truth!

            Therefore Allah is the only TRUTH. So I guess you will only find your answers with Him. Allah Only knows. Allah forgive me for any mistakes I may have said.

            Salaam,

            hypno

            mmKhan

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • B Offline
              B Offline
              Bigmo
              wrote on last edited by
              #136

              Peace Bigmo,

              What's an "orientalist."

              Its a term usually used for Western scholars of the Middle East. They are not free from bias but at least they try to provide academic evidence.

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • H Offline
                H Offline
                hawk99
                wrote on last edited by
                #137

                Its a term usually used for Western scholars of the Middle East. They are not free from bias but at least they try to provide academic evidence.

                Peace Bigmo,

                So an orientalist can be said to be a view from the outside.

                Thanks O0

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • U Offline
                  U Offline
                  unknownuser
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #138

                  Salaam,

                  hypno

                  mmKhan

                  Peace mmKhan...

                  She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy )

                  Peace Madiha...

                  I think the 99 names of Allah is not something based on the teachings of the Qur'an...and that may be what brother mmKhan is getting at. No worries...I was the same way when I first started here...I found that most of what I knew was based on hadith. Just goes to show how corrupted the Sunni faith really is. )

                  -Amina

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • Z Offline
                    Z Offline
                    Zulf
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #139

                    Humans are fallible. We are given a divine scripture and told to ponder on it, read it and apply it. We will never get it right 100%. I've come to conclusion that there is no perfect way of doing it. But just do it the best way that we can while being HONEST to ourselves (not read into the verses and try to see what we want to see).

                    I like what you write in your post. I agree!
                    I also think that people often are to quick to demand uniformity in things where it is not needed. People forget that each and everyone is at a different level of understanding at different times in life. Not any one person's world is like any other's. We all have our own different worlds, which are how we perceive things, our past experiences, our perspectives and understandings... and it can never be the same for any two individuals. The things that should unite people, the common denominator, should be direction and intention they have... that is to strive to grow, understand more and better and only spread goodness - the sincere search for truth. In order to spread goodness, one must keep growing and developing as a person, and in one's understanding of self, life, reality. To stagnate in a mold/belief system/understanding is to invite an inevitable decay at every level of oneself.

                    I find it quite interesting to ponder over the fact that if you think you "know it all" and have THE answers and know THE correct religion, then you are indirectly saying that you have the knowledge of God. If you agree that you don't have the knowledge of God, the you'd realize that there will ALWAYS be plenty of room for growth and new understanding. This can be humbling. But religion doesn't teach real humility, coz real humility would threaten the fixed system of religions. Religions only teache a "safe" kind of humility that's designed to make you feel good and proud about yourself.

                    Peace
                    Kind regards

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • M Offline
                      M Offline
                      mmkhan
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #140

                      Peace mmKhan...

                      She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy

                      Peace Amina,

                      I was just trying to highlight that to think thank you anyway.

                      mmKhan

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • U Offline
                        U Offline
                        unknownuser
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #141

                        Peace Amina,

                        I was just trying to highlight that to think thank you anyway.

                        mmKhan

                        Peace mmKhan,

                        If I was out of line I apologize. You do make people think, and I think that is awesome of you...I just remember how it was when I first became a member of the forum and everything I posted was hadith based...it was so unsettling to discover that I knew hardly anything of the Qur'an.

                        -Amina

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • M Offline
                          M Offline
                          mmkhan
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #142

                          Peace mmKhan,

                          If I was out of line I apologize. You do make people think, and I think that is awesome of you...I just remember how it was when I first became a member of the forum and everything I posted was hadith based...it was so unsettling to discover that I knew hardly anything of the Qur'an.

                          -Amina

                          Peace Amina,

                          Thank you very much for your kind words and no need for apology handshake

                          I believe that it is better if each one of us do some kind of research before concluding anything from alQuraan. We all know how to check our grocery items before buying them, we also know very well how to check vegetables before bringing it home, we all know checking every thing is working in a house even if we are going to get it on rent, rest aside buying. But unfortunately many people forget to use their ability of judging between correct and wrong when it comes to alQuraan, and believe in what they like in other's work.

                          In fact, it is our duty to check by ourselves with our given capabilities. This is how I think and that is why I send alerts sometimes

                          May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                          mmKhan

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • U Offline
                            U Offline
                            unknownuser
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #143

                            Peace Amina,

                            Thank you very much for your kind words and no need for apology handshake

                            I believe that it is better if each one of us do some kind of research before concluding anything from alQuraan. We all know how to check our grocery items before buying them, we also know very well how to check vegetables before bringing it home, we all know checking every thing is working in a house even if we are going to get it on rent, rest aside buying. But unfortunately many people forget to use their ability of judging between correct and wrong when it comes to alQuraan, and believe in what they like in other's work.

                            In fact, it is our duty to check by ourselves with our given capabilities. This is how I think and that is why I send alerts sometimes

                            May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                            mmKhan

                            If I may quote from the Bible "As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Not sure the exact proverb that is from, but it was one of my favorites when I was a Christian...a reminder that we can and do learn from one another. So keep sending those alerts, Insha'Allah, because I know I have benefitted from them several times.

                            Peace,

                            Amina

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • M Offline
                              M Offline
                              mmkhan
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #144

                              If I may quote from the Bible "As iron sharpens iron, one man sharpens another." Not sure the exact proverb that is from, but it was one of my favorites when I was a Christian...a reminder that we can and do learn from one another. So keep sending those alerts, Insha'Allah, because I know I have benefitted from them several times.

                              Peace,

                              Amina

                              Peace Amina,

                              Yes, its very true that we learn from each other. And thank you for allowing me to send alerts

                              May Allah bless you,
                              mmKhan

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • P Offline
                                P Offline
                                PixelAngelBaby
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #145

                                Salaam,

                                hypno

                                mmKhan

                                Peace mmKhan...

                                She did ask for forgiveness for any mistakes she made...go easy

                                Peace Madiha...

                                I think the 99 names of Allah is not something based on the teachings of the Qur'an...and that may be what brother mmKhan is getting at. No worries...I was the same way when I first started here...I found that most of what I knew was based on hadith. Just goes to show how corrupted the Sunni faith really is.

                                -Amina

                                They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point

                                http//muttaqun.com/99names.html

                                Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Lena
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #146

                                  there is only one TRUTH - one God, life here is finite, after death is life hereafter, Day of Judgement where we have to stand account to how we lived this life, good deeds get rewarded and bad deeds will be punished. the goal is to attain piety.

                                  the koran is a guide book to getting there - offering tools to achieving the goal. there are different ways of getting there.

                                  having different ways of getting to end point doesn't alter the TRUTH. problem is we tend to obsess over form, details, numbers...losing sight of the TRUTH. we tend to complicate life, having our own ideas each claiming his way is better or right way or the only way.

                                  one example is 'salat'. God tells us what the purpose of salat is. yet, you have people pre-occupied with form, numbers, timing, focusing on the details but missing the point. instead of focusing on the TRUTH - we tend to focus, argue, divide over things, and creating all this confusion.

                                  God is not wrong. We are just stupid.

                                  bravo

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • U Offline
                                    U Offline
                                    unknownuser
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #147

                                    They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point

                                    http//muttaqun.com/99names.html

                                    Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.

                                    Al Hamdulilah! That is good to know!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      mmkhan
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #148

                                      They ARE mentioned in the quran. Now forgive the source of this article but it will show my point

                                      http//muttaqun.com/99names.html

                                      Look at the 99 names with their cited verses in the Quran at the bottom half. I looked it up before I posted my previous post.

                                      Salaam PAB,

                                      Thanks for your reply. One question for you Did Allah said that those are Allah's names?

                                      May Allah bless you,
                                      mmKhan

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • P Offline
                                        P Offline
                                        PixelAngelBaby
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #149

                                        Salaam PAB,

                                        Thanks for your reply. One question for you Did Allah said that those are Allah's names?

                                        May Allah bless you,
                                        mmKhan

                                        Wa aleykom asalam,

                                        I honestly don't know if Allah said that those are his names. But they certainly are of his traits/descriptions/characteristics. Isn't Maryam qouted to have called upon Al Rahman, when Gabriel came to her, in the Quran? Sounds like a name or attribute of Allah to me.

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          mmkhan
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #150

                                          Wa aleykom asalam,

                                          I honestly don't know if Allah said that those are his names. But they certainly are of his traits/descriptions/characteristics. Isn't Maryam qouted to have called upon Al Rahman, when Gabriel came to her, in the Quran? Sounds like a name or attribute of Allah to me.

                                          Salaam Madiha,

                                          Thank you for your honest reply.

                                          Sorry for another question from your message above . How do you know that was Gabriel where alQuraan does not say so? Now, back to our topic.

                                          7180 says there are And for Allah are the most beautiful "alasmaa"... . Ism means attribute not name.

                                          4911
                                          4911 O you who have believed, let not a people ridicule people; perhaps they may be better than them; nor let women ridicule women; perhaps they may be better than them. And do not insult one another and do not call each other by nicknames. Wretched is al-Ism of disobedience after faith. And whoever does not repent - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

                                          We can see that giving others nicknames are based on their attribute and it is called al-Ism in 4911

                                          5924
                                          5924 He is Allah , the Creator, the Inventor, the Fashioner; to Him belong the best attributes. Whatever is in the heavens and earth is exalting Him. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

                                          The highlighted ones are the only beautiful attributes of Allah. Please note "laHu" which is referring back to the word "Allah" by saying "to Him belong the best attributes". You may not find such aayat anywhere else in alQuraan, clarifying in such a way, please do let me know if you find any.

                                          May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                                          mmKhan

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Users