Is it shirk to rape women?
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The basic thing is, if a man is stubborn and arrogant,.....and he knows right and wrong,....but still denies to obey.....then this is Shirk, indeed.
Because, he has taken his own dirty desire as his ilah (authority), instead of Allah as Ilah (Authority).
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No it is not Shirk. It is a hefty sin though. Shirk is the association of partners to God. This is something belief based in that when you believe in more than one god or accept the words of other than the God as the truth or giving divinity to something or someone such as a stone or a person.
Rape is a sin, a big sin. The only way it will be shirk is if you believe that it is allowed and okay even though the Quran forbids it.
Only Wahabbis try to say sins are shirk.
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zina, fahisha, opression, agression, corruption, injury
i am sure we can name more things, but just from this list alone how many people calling themselves Muslims actualy do , do shirk.
Of course a person raping a woman isn't obaying God in any sense of the word so he is setting up his own desire is illa, thus it is shirk. Can a person seeing such a person raping a sister or a mother or a daughter forgive?? No way!
448
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.And we point fingers at others , they believe "son of God" and we may be doing more and worse kind of ............
peace
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i am sure we can name more things, but just from this list alone how many people calling themselves Muslims actualy do , do shirk.
Of course a person raping a woman isn't obaying God in any sense of the word so he is setting up his own desire is illa, thus it is shirk. Can a person seeing such a person raping a sister or a mother or a daughter forgive?? No way!
448
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.And we point fingers at others , they believe "son of God" and we may be doing more and worse kind of ............
peace
facepalm don't be a wahabbi and declare every sin as shirk. God has clearly made a difference between shirk and sin
2568 "And those who do not call on any other god with God, nor do they kill the life that God has made forbidden except in justice, nor do they commit adultery; and whosoever does that will receive the punishment."
243 "The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or one who is an idolatress. And the adulteress, she will only be married to an adulterer or an idolater. And this has been forbidden for the believers."
Clearly you can see the sinners are described as separate from the mushirks frlm these verses.
The only examples of shirk that have been mentioned in the Quran have to do with taking a deity as a god, to declare something lawful or unlawful when the Quran has said otherwise (that is the only way desires may kick in thus its belief based), and giving something like a stone or a person divinity like the jews with the golden calf or considering a human as God.
A sin whether big or small is a sin NOT SHIRK. If one fornicates, steals, eat pork, or backbites, they are sinning not doing shirk. It is only shirk if they have declared them lawful in contrast to the Quran, while a sinner knows its unlawful but does it anyways.
Even Shaytan who didn't prostrate was never called a mushirk and only a kafir for trying to cover up the truth from mankind.
To answer your question, people who are muslims DO NOT DO SHIRK. If they are beleiving in more than one god or giving divinity to statues or man (taking Jesus as God for example), or believing something that clearly is stated to them as unlawful in the Quran as lawful then they aren't muslims anymore but rather mushirks. One who sins is a sinning muslim, not a mushirk who calls himself a muslim.
So no we are not doing worse than those who say Jesus is God
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facepalm don't be a wahabbi and declare every sin as shirk. God has clearly made a difference between shirk and sin
2568 "And those who do not call on any other god with God, nor do they kill the life that God has made forbidden except in justice, nor do they commit adultery; and whosoever does that will receive the punishment."
This ayah dosn't mention shirk at all!
243 "The adulterer will only marry an adulteress or one who is an idolatress. And the adulteress, she will only be married to an adulterer or an idolater. And this has been forbidden for the believers."
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=24&verse=3
The adulterer and adulteress are both in the catagory of a mushrik - that is what this ayah is saying, and that they should only marry such.
Clearly you can see the sinners are described as separate from the mushirks frlm these verses.
I can't see that.
The only examples of shirk that have been mentioned in the Quran have to do with taking a deity as a god, to declare something lawful or unlawful when the Quran has said otherwise (that is the only way desires may kick in thus its belief based), and giving something like a stone or a person divinity like the jews with the golden calf or considering a human as God.
A sin whether big or small is a sin NOT SHIRK. If one fornicates, steals, eat pork, or backbites, they are sinning not doing shirk. It is only shirk if they have declared them lawful in contrast to the Quran, while a sinner knows its unlawful but does it anyways.
Even Shaytan who didn't prostrate was never called a mushirk and only a kafir for trying to cover up the truth from mankind.
To answer your question, people who are muslims DO NOT DO SHIRK. If they are beleiving in more than one god or giving divinity to statues or man (taking Jesus as God for example), or believing something that clearly is stated to them as unlawful in the Quran as lawful then they aren't muslims anymore but rather mushirks. One who sins is a sinning muslim, not a mushirk who calls himself a muslim.
proof from the quran please, red eye.
So no we are not doing worse than those who say Jesus is God
far worse , as we steal, we are dishonest we bribe ...........and they may only do one form of shirk that is say a few words which don't hurt a fly - i think.
peace
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This ayah dosn't mention shirk at all!
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=24&verse=3
The adulterer and adulteress are both in the catagory of a mushrik - that is what this ayah is saying, and that they should only marry such.
I can't see that.
2568 clearly states assosiating a god with The God and then seperately stares murder and zina meaning they aren't one in the same.
as for 242 you clearly are blind if you didn't notice it say it say "adulterous OR one who is an idoltress"
it said OR! "OR" meaning zina and shirk are two different things. so don'ttwist such clear verses to mean your fundamental definition of shirk as it has clearly stated them as separae from shirk.
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2568 clearly states assosiating a god with The God and then seperately stares murder and zina meaning they aren't one in the same.
we shouldn't go by the translation all of the time. There is no shirk word in the ayah.
Waallatheena layadAAoona maAAa Allahi ilahan akharawala yaqtuloona alnnafsa allatee harrama Allahuilla bialhaqqi wala yaznoona wamanyafAAal thalika yalqa athaman
as for 243 you clearly are blind if you didn't notice it say it say "adulterous OR one who is an idoltress"
it said OR! "OR" meaning zina and shirk are two different things. so don'ttwist such clear verses to mean your fundamental definition of shirk as it has clearly stated them as separae from shirk.
Muhammad Asad 243
the adulterer couples with none other than an adulteress - that is, a woman who accords a place side by side with God;4 and with the adulteress couples none other than an adulterer - that is, a man who accords a place side by side with God and this is forbidden unto the believers.5
Shabbir Ahmed 243
The adulterer couples with none but an adulteress who worships her desires. And with the adulteress none couples but the adulterer who worships his desires. And it is forbidden to the believers.The "Or" has been used in many qurans and does confuse people - its prime misuse is in the ayah's to concuct concubines when there arn't any in the quran at all.
But please take it as you best understand it.
peace
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we shouldn't go by the translation all of the time. There is no shirk word in the ayah.
Waallatheena layadAAoona maAAa Allahi ilahan akharawala yaqtuloona alnnafsa allatee harrama Allahuilla bialhaqqi wala yaznoona wamanyafAAal thalika yalqa athaman
doesn't matter if the word shirk isn't in there, heck the word shirk isn't used very much in the Quran is always just states "associating partners" many many many times and we all know that is a direct reference to shirk and thus referencing the association of a god to The God is obviously talking about shirk. Don't twist the verse please to satisfy your interpretation.
Muhammad Asad 243
the adulterer couples with none other than an adulteress - that is, a woman who accords a place side by side with God;4 and with the adulteress couples none other than an adulterer - that is, a man who accords a place side by side with God and this is forbidden unto the believers.5
Shabbir Ahmed 243
The adulterer couples with none but an adulteress who worships her desires. And with the adulteress none couples but the adulterer who worships his desires. And it is forbidden to the believers.The "Or" has been used in many qurans and does confuse people - its prime misuse is in the ayah's to concuct concubines when there arn't any in the quran at all.
But please take it as you best understand it.
peace
You are using a hadithist translation which as far as I can tell is chock full of their own fundamentalist interpretations there.
The free-minds translation that I put up clearly does it more correct and we'll prove it going word by word
al-zn
The fornicatorl
(will) notyankiu
marryill
exceptzniyatan
a fornicatress,aw
ormush'rikatan
a polytheist woman,"Aw" means "or"
source http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=24&verse=3
Also even if you don't like the free-minds translation you picked one of the only two translations that don't use "or"
http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/24/3/default.htm
EVERY OTHER TRANSLATION USES "OR" thus clearly showing that there is clear difference between the sin of Zina and shirk. So don't twist it as you did using two flawed translations to fulfill your radical interpretation of shirk.
I have seen many many traditionalist who are quite hardliners and agree that a sin is not shirk and only a few wahabis usually do.
Why even ask a question if rape is shirk if you are fiercely going to fight anyone who disagrees with you using misleading translations?
Regardless I have proven they aren't the same and only two traditionalist and radical translations seem to think it is.
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This ayah is something about desire and shirk
Now how many desires does a man have and how many will he fulfill?Edip-Layth 2543 Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
The Monotheist Group 2543 Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
Muhammad Asad 2543 Hast thou ever considered who makes his own desires his deity? Couldst thou, then, be held responsible for him?
Rashad Khalifa The Ego as a god 2543 Have you seen the one whose god is his own ego? Will you be his advocate?
Shabbir Ahmed 2543 Have you seen the one who has taken as god his own desire? Could you be an advocate for him?
Transliteration 2543 Araayta mani ittakhatha ilahahuhawahu afaanta takoonu AAalayhi wakeelan
A 2543
Edip-Layth 2544 Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are just like cattle. No, they are worse off.Is rape one of them ?
confused
And Thanks , some nice posts. handshake
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This ayah is something about desire and shirk
Now how many desires does a man have and how many will he fulfill?Edip-Layth 2543 Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
The Monotheist Group 2543 Have you seen the one who has taken his ego as his god? Will you be a caretaker over him?
Muhammad Asad 2543 Hast thou ever considered who makes his own desires his deity? Couldst thou, then, be held responsible for him?
Rashad Khalifa The Ego as a god 2543 Have you seen the one whose god is his own ego? Will you be his advocate?
Shabbir Ahmed 2543 Have you seen the one who has taken as god his own desire? Could you be an advocate for him?
Transliteration 2543 Araayta mani ittakhatha ilahahuhawahu afaanta takoonu AAalayhi wakeelan
A 2543
Edip-Layth 2544 Or do you think that most of them hear or understand? They are just like cattle. No, they are worse off.Is rape one of them ?
confused
And Thanks , some nice posts. handshake
I love how you completely ignored my proofs in the last post and tried to use this new one that i'm all too familar with to prove your idea of shirk.
If we were to accept this verse for what it is, then we would enter ALOT of contradictions throughout the rest of the Quran.
The idea stated here is taking your desires as your god. What does that mean? simply put that you give those the authority to make stuff as lawful or unlawful even though you know the Quran states otherwise.
Simply sinning while knowing its r unlawful isn't shirk, but thinking what you are doing is lawful would then be shirk.
Lets look at a related verse
931 "They took their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god but He, be He glorified for what they set up."
Here they have taken their priests and monks alongside God. What does that mean? The priests and monks made whatever they wished lawful or unlawful and the followers accepted that even though their holy books said otherwise. Therefore they committed shirk cause they BELIEVED the lawful was unlawful and the unlawful was lawful even though they had proper knowledge.
This same premise applies to 2543 for it to make sense. Basically the idea is do not take anything but God as divine otherwise its shirk. If you take your desires as divine and make unlawful into lawful or vice versa, then you have committed shirk.
If you still plan to fight using 2543 and claim my explanation is vague or flawed, just think back to my previous post about how God differentiated between Zina and Shirk. If you still do not see sin and shirk as separate then you are creating contradiction.
In fact i'm gonna throw one more thing at you in that you should never take a verse on its own and always read the surrounding verses with it
2542"He nearly diverted us from our gods had we not been patient for them." They will learn when they see the retribution who is on a path most astray."
This came right before 2543 which can explain that by their desires they chose to stick with their gods instead instead of submitting to The God.
Thus it stands as sin and shirk being separate otherwise we run into a lot of contradictions such as with 242 and 2568 where shirk and sin are held separate.
So again I am saying this that to please not corrupt a verse and please don't start contradictions.
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i am sure we can name more things, but just from this list alone how many people calling themselves Muslims actualy do , do shirk.
Of course a person raping a woman isn't obaying God in any sense of the word so he is setting up his own desire is illa, thus it is shirk. Can a person seeing such a person raping a sister or a mother or a daughter forgive?? No way!
448
Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.And we point fingers at others , they believe "son of God" and we may be doing more and worse kind of ............
peace
By this logic, every sin is shirk, meaning that we disobey God's commands thus becoming victims of our own desires.
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By this logic, every sin is shirk, meaning that we disobey God's commands thus becoming victims of our own desires.
when our intention is dishonest, saying "how can i take my millions without paying the due shares of a society" , is this not doing according to other then The God, thus making your own whims and desires your god.
what is that if not shirk? hmm
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I think its important that when we talk about shirk as understood by the Quran we first deal with what shirk is and not what we assume it is. Shirk is an unforgiven shirk and our downplaying it or trying to change what it actually is can cause takfirism to dominate our minds. Shirk the Quran is talking about is radically different than how many of us think it is. Its a lot worse, lot worse, than what we think it is. That is why God does not forgive shirk.
I have done some research into shirk as praticed by mankind.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603937.0
Its not what many think it is. We need to stop equating shirk with everything. There is nothing that equates shirk. That is why God does not forgive shirk. Shirk is a theology and not an act. You don't commit shirk, you believe in shirk.