Why do you reject hadiths
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Salaami could respond see quran and if you believe in it you believe in that.
I told you that there is no proof and the question is question of belief.You are believeing in words that don't come from allah.
You are whorshipping Bukhari and Muslim and believing in their books and putting your faith in their beards.However, no matter. I knew since the beginning that you will not respond.
Peace
His argument is flawed. It is him who claims that he can proof mohammed really said whats written in hadith. We never said that we have proof that Quran came from jibreel. Either you believe in quran or you dont.
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Salaam Bigmo
12106 And most of them will not believe in God except beeing Mushrikoouns.
3042 Say "Roam the earth and see how the end was for those before. Most of them were mushrikouns."so the main danger when we become believer is to be moshrik.
noshrik means i am determined to fight the trap of shirk wich is, for me, believing in things that don't came from allah.
shirk is liying about allah and as allah said, most believers are moshrikouns, even nowadays.Peace
How do you define shirk? Give me an example of a shirk. What kind of lying about Allah are you refering to?
You also said most believers are mushirks, how can they be believers and mushriks at the same time? Which believers are you talking about?
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You are whorshipping Bukhari and Muslim and believing in their books and putting your faith in their beards.
You are accusing believers in God of worshiping Bukhari and the crew, and you know that is not correct. Eating dates, because they read in hadith collections that the Prophet ate them is not worshiping but it is irrelevant so someone's iman. If someone heard that the Prophet had a beard and wants to have one too, it's not worshiping but it is also irrelevant to his iman. You explained to Bigmo why your nickname is Noshirk, and yet you are allowing your self luxury to judge among the people by calling them kufr and you have no right to do so. It's what Allah s.w.t. knows and we do not.
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You are accusing believers in God of worshiping Bukhari and the crew, and you know that is not correct. Eating dates, because they read in hadith collections that the Prophet ate them is not worshiping but it is irrelevant so someone's iman. If someone heard that the Prophet had a beard and wants to have one too, it's not worshiping but it is also irrelevant to his iman. You explained to Bigmo why your nickname is Noshirk, and yet you are allowing your self luxury to judge among the people by calling them kufr and you have no right to do so. It's what Allah s.w.t. knows and we do not.
you worship bukhari if you blindely believe him.
Allah's Messenger (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said Every eye is
lustful and when a woman applies perfume and then goes about in an assembly, she is like such and such, i.e. an adulteress. (Mishkat Hadith1065)The prayer of a woman who uses perfume is not accepted until she returns and takes a bath like that of sexual defilement. (Abu Dawud4162)
if you blindely believe the above quoted hadith, you are indeed worship hadith instead of listening to your god given common sense.
Peace
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you worship bukhari if you blindely believe him.
Allah's Messenger (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said Every eye is
lustful and when a woman applies perfume and then goes about in an assembly, she is like such and such, i.e. an adulteress. (Mishkat Hadith1065)The prayer of a woman who uses perfume is not accepted until she returns and takes a bath like that of sexual defilement. (Abu Dawud4162)
if you blindely believe the above quoted hadith, you are indeed worship hadith instead of listening to your god given common sense.
Peace
I mentioned this hadith earlier. I said I will never believe that the Prophet said such thing, because it goes against common sense, let alone Qur'an.
Many Muslim (sunni) woman wear and are lovers of perfume, which means they consider this saying a joke. Everyone who believe this joke, have problem of some other nature, and I wouldn't call it kufr.I'm sure you're aware of the fact that many Muslims who declare themselves as Sunnis (which some of you call kafirs), didn't read a single chapter of any hadith collection, but they are frequent in reading Qur'an and give their praises to The Almighty. How can you accuse such people of shirk?
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sallam maha.
His argument is flawed. It is him who claims that he can proof mohammed really said whats written in hadith. We never said that we have proof that Quran came from jibreel. Either you believe in quran or you dont.
i repeat i have no proof that quran was revealed from jibril.
I would then deduce, from rameez challenge, that he has was ready to admit that there is no proof that origin of all the hearsays of Hadiths was Muhammad.so the question of hadith is a question of believe.
Following Hadiths is believing in books that are not from Allah. That's Shirk.
Following Hadiths is believing in another revelation and putting his faith in humans (Bukhari and others) to witch God gave no power.i would like to mention another point.
Bismillah at the beginning of each sourate (in name of god...) emphesize the caracter of rissala (message) of Quran.
Messenger has only deliver message.
When you read a hadith, it is clearly mentionned names of people who were given no power by GOD.Nabi is word derived from nabaa (information)
Nabi is informed but speaks with his owns words.All verses speaking about obeying refers to Rassool Statute. No one speaks about Nabi statute. is it a coincidence ?
Nowhere in quran, there is mention of other books Muhammad has to deliver to muslims.
How could be that books so importants are not mentionned by God if they are necessary to become Full Muslim ?
Why "good muslims" waited so long for compiling these importants books ?
Why there is not only one book of Hadiths ?Peace
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so the question of hadith is a question of believe.
Following Hadiths is believing in books that are not from Allah. That's Shirk.
Following Hadiths is believing in another revelation and putting his faith in humans (Bukhari and others) to witch God gave no power.Following and believing are two different things.
Walt Whitman said "Re examine all you have been told, dismiss what insults your soul".
If I follow the advice given above that doesn't mean I believe in Walt Whitman and that I'm putting Leaves of Grass above Qur'an.
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salaam
How do you define shirk?
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
393 Absolutely, to God is the true system. And those who set up allies besides Him ?We only serve them so that they may bring us closer to God.? God will judge between them in what they dispute. For God does not guide him who is a liar, a rejecter.
3945 And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
4012 This is because when God alone was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners (toshrikou) were set up with Him, you believed. Therefore, the judgment is for God, the Most High, the Great.380 Nor does He order you that you take the angels and the prophets as patrons. Would He order you to rejection after you have submitted?
112 "That you shall serve none other than God. I am to you from Him a warner and a bearer of good news."2165 And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to G
3125 And if you ask them ?Who has created the heavens and the earth?? They will say ?God.? Say ?Praise be to God.? Yet, most of them do not know.Peace
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salaam
How do you define shirk?
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
393 Absolutely, to God is the true system. And those who set up allies besides Him ?We only serve them so that they may bring us closer to God.? God will judge between them in what they dispute. For God does not guide him who is a liar, a rejecter.
3945 And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
4012 This is because when God alone was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners (toshrikou) were set up with Him, you believed. Therefore, the judgment is for God, the Most High, the Great.380 Nor does He order you that you take the angels and the prophets as patrons. Would He order you to rejection after you have submitted?
112 "That you shall serve none other than God. I am to you from Him a warner and a bearer of good news."2165 And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to G
3125 And if you ask them ?Who has created the heavens and the earth?? They will say ?God.? Say ?Praise be to God.? Yet, most of them do not know.Peace
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Following and believing are two different things.
OK, i change the sentences.
believing in Hadiths is believing in books that are not from Allah. That's Shirk.
believing in Hadiths is believing in another revelation and putting his faith in humans (Bukhari and others) to witch God gave no power.Peace
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salaam
1746 And we place shields over their hearts, that they should not understand it, and a deafness in their ears. And if you mention your Lord in the Qur'an alone, they run away turning their backs in aversion.
393 Absolutely, to God is the true system. And those who set up allies besides Him ?We only serve them so that they may bring us closer to God.? God will judge between them in what they dispute. For God does not guide him who is a liar, a rejecter.
3945 And when God alone is mentioned, the hearts of those who do not believe in the Hereafter are filled with aversion; and when others are mentioned besides Him, they rejoice!
4012 This is because when God alone was mentioned, you rejected, but when partners (toshrikou) were set up with Him, you believed. Therefore, the judgment is for God, the Most High, the Great.380 Nor does He order you that you take the angels and the prophets as patrons. Would He order you to rejection after you have submitted?
112 "That you shall serve none other than God. I am to you from Him a warner and a bearer of good news."2165 And from among the people are some who take other than God as equals to Him, they love them as they love God; but those who believe love God more strongly; and when those who were wicked see the retribution, they will see that all power belongs to G
3125 And if you ask them ?Who has created the heavens and the earth?? They will say ?God.? Say ?Praise be to God.? Yet, most of them do not know.Peace
Your vague in your answer. I have a feeling that you don't actually know what shirk is. But I could be wrong.
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OK, i change the sentences.
believing in Hadiths is believing in books that are not from Allah. That's Shirk.
believing in Hadiths is believing in another revelation and putting his faith in humans (Bukhari and others) to witch God gave no power.Peace
What if I believe that a certain biology book is true, its contents I mean, have I committed shirk then?
Peace back.
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What if I believe that a certain biology book is true, its contents I mean, have I committed shirk then?
Peace back.
No since biology books just tells you facts. but if you blindely believe that biology book, when it teaches wrong things, then you would most properly have commited shirk.
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But what if I believe in biology book that tells me facts?
if they are from a trusted source then you are just following facts.. then that can obviously not be shirk but truth and following the truth is following God.
quran says I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
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salaam
What if I believe that a certain biology book is true, its contents I mean, have I committed shirk then?
are you saying that the biology book comes from GOD ? that it is religion ? that writers are inspired by God ? are you reproducing hearsays about god with no proofs?
When you reads biology book, however, you are asked to use your mind and not to believe blindly in it. You can even believe in parts and reject parts. For example, you can reject parts that says that biological phenomenons are totally driven by evolution.
I consider natural phenomenons as ayats of God and that we have to think about them in the same manner as we think about quranic verses.
Quran ask you to use your mind when you are reading quranic ayats and naturals ayats. You are free to reject official interpretation. All scientific theories are consequence of a rejection of an old interpretation but not of rejection of Facts.
All prophets have rejected and fighted official theological interpretation of religious leaders.Since you are not inventing other divinities (nature divinity, universe divinity, evolution divinity), or following blindly Darwin and scientists only because they have white blouses, and since you are using you mind, it is not shirk. You can even be wrong.
Lets resume
Facts are for science what verses are for quran.
Theories are for science what doctrines is for quran. In one specified field, theories can be numerous but only one is true.You are free to reject theories but not facts.
Free mind is a right an a duty when you face science and quran.
Shirk begins when you put your faith in other than God and when you believe in what humans with no power from GOD says with no proofs.Quran warn from following ancients, majority, dignitaries, leaders...
Quran is for free mind people who use their own minds and not for those who follow the mind of other people and took them as Masters besides GOD.Peace
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salaam
are you saying that the biology book comes from GOD ? that it is religion ? that writers are inspired by God ? are you reproducing hearsays about god with no proofs?When you reads biology book, however, you are asked to use your mind and not to believe blindly in it. You can even believe in parts and reject parts. For example, you can reject parts that says that biological phenomenons are totally driven by evolution.
I consider natural phenomenons as ayats of God and that we have to think about them in the same manner as we think about quranic verses.
Quran ask you to use your mind when you are reading quranic ayats and naturals ayats. You are free to reject official interpretation. All scientific theories are consequence of a rejection of an old interpretation but not of rejection of Facts.
All prophets have rejected and fighted official theological interpretation of religious leaders.Since you are not inventing other divinities (nature divinity, universe divinity, evolution divinity), or following blindly Darwin and scientists only because they have white blouses, and since you are using you mind, it is not shirk. You can even be wrong.
Lets resume
Facts are for science what verses are for quran.
Theories are for science what doctrines is for quran. In one specified field, theories can be numerous but only one is true.You are free to reject theories but not facts.
Free mind is a right an a duty when you face science and quran.
Shirk begins when you put your faith in other than God and when you believe in what humans with no power from GOD says with no proofs.Quran warn from following ancients, majority, dignitaries, leaders...
Quran is for free mind people who use their own minds and not for those who follow the mind of other people and took them as Masters besides GOD.Peace
"Shirk begins when you put your faith in other than God "
Shirk is when you believe in other gods. Many people can put their faith in many things and putting your faith in God is not as easy as you think anyways. But shirk is the belief in other gods.
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No since biology books just tells you facts. but if you blindely believe that biology book, when it teaches wrong things, then you would most properly have commited shirk.
You don't commit shirk. Shirsk is a theology not an act. You either believe in shirk or you don't. Following something wrong blindly can be called stupidy or denial. But when we are talking about shirk we are talking about a belief system.
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For those who say "Obey Allah and Obey the Messenger" means to Follow the message so you are obeying Messenger and in turn Obeying Allah
461 And when it is said to them, "Come to what Allah has revealed and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turning away from you in aversion.
Now explain why "Messenger" is separated from "what Allah has revealed".
All those who say that Satan has misguided more than 90% of Muslims and they are following conjecture, please prove that Satan HAS NOT distorted the original Quran and you are following the same verses that were revealed to the Messenger in its correct form.
And I can see how all the questions I asked with the Quranic verse are still unanswered .
Someone said that they got "I am holiest than thou attitude" . I am not at all trying to give this attitude if someone gets this impression that I am implying that I AM more holy than you guys, its wrong , I am here just to learn and to understand your arguments and arguments can only be understood if we keep "arguing". After few days I will give you guys a surprise
I have some more food of thought for you.
It says in the Quran to shorten the prayer when you travel. How long do you have to travel in order to be eligible to have this privilege? How short do you have to cut the prayer?
Rameez,
First off, salaam. Secondly, did you ever stop to think that maybe the reason these things aren't in the Qu'ran is because they aren't important? I often ask myself "What if the hadith never existed? Would we ask things like how short should the prayer be...how far should we travel to consider shortening the prayer, etc?" In my opinion, it's all of these technicalities that cause people to be distanced from God.
The first time someone asked me online "How do you shorten the prayer if the Qu'ran doesn't say how many rakas to do?" To me it was simple...like brushing teeth. Most days, I brush my teeth for 2 minutes or so, making sure I do 20 strokes on each surface. Some mornings I am in a hurry, so I do a quicker brushing, maybe 10 strokes or so. I didn't need a manual or to call up my dentist to ask that...it just made sense.
It's the same with traveling I don't consider a trip to the local grocery store "traveling." I consider traveling to be a trip in which I will not be returning home for a while, as in a few days or so. However, if I am at a safe place when I reach my destination (hotel, friends home, etc) then I am in a place where I can pray freely and safely, so I make the full prayer. If I can find a safe place to pray while I am traveling (i.e. a local mosque), then I can make the full prayer then also.
Don't need a hadith or scholar to tell me that one.
One more thing Please consider the time the Qu'ran was revealed...people didn't have cars, planes, etc. to get them places, and it took them days to get anywhere. They probably didn't have hotels to stay the night in...they slept in a camp our out in the wilderness where danger abounded. We don't have that issue now...we are places in a matter of hours anymore, and we can stop in safe places to rest, so it easier for us.
Peace,
Amina