Why do you reject hadiths

Shirin

Salaam
Because reciting while bowing and prostrating in not studying and thinking.

do you know that in this forum, there is strange people who believe that Salat is not prayer, that Soujoud is not prostating , that roukou is not bowing and that salat in only 3 times in the day ?

Peace

That's correct. ) I'll try my best to stay on that track as well, inshaAllah.

I noticed those people too, I hear what they say but it doesn't affect me much.

unknownuser

Salaam
Because reciting while bowing and prostrating in not studying and thinking.

do you know that in this forum, there is strange people who believe that Salat is not prayer, that Soujoud is not prostating , that roukou is not bowing and that salat in only 3 times in the day ?

Peace

Uhhh...hello...some of us "strange" people just read that...thanks.

Maha

Salaam ShirinI also thought that during a long period.
I hope that following traditionnal practices you don't know from were they came will not divert you from studying Quran.

Peace

Quran 1736 and do not follow that which you have no knowledge of.

So I don't follow any traditional ritual or practice which I can't find any quranic support of.

Maha

That's correct. I'll try my best to stay on that track as well, inshaAllah.

I noticed those people too, I hear what they say but it doesn't affect me much.

1736 and follow Not which you have not knowledge of

So If they aren't sure that prayer is a ritual like you believe, than they are quranically entitled to not follow it as they have no knowledge about it. I hope you understand my point.

Peace

Shirin

1736 and follow Not which you have not knowledge of

So If they aren't sure that prayer is a ritual like you believe, than they are quranically entitled to not follow it as they have no knowledge about it. I hope you understand my point.

Peace

When I read in Qur'an (what I mentioned before) that it is prescribed to stand, bow and fall prostrate and recite Qur'an and glorify God, then I saw that there is nothing wrong with praying in traditional way. Hope you understand what I'm saying, as well.

Peace

noshirk

Salaam shirin

That's correct. I'll try my best to stay on that track as well, inshaAllah.

I noticed those people too, I hear what they say but it doesn't affect me much.

Oups! i forgot to tell you that i am one of those strange people

i no more make the double false testimony of shahada
i don't believe that salat is prayer but a simple connexion to God by meditating and thinking about his words and creations
i don't believe that ootoo zakat is giving sadaqa but getting mind purification by study of words of god
i don't believe also that hajj is pilgrimage but debate with candidates to islam during feast
i dont believe that siyamm is fasting but spiritual retreat

i believe in quran, in God and all his messengers.
I put all my faith in GOD and his words and in anything else

what a strange religion i am following.
It is based only on quran
i wonder what is its name ?
Can you help me shirin ?

Peace

Maha

When I read in Qur'an (what I mentioned before) that it is prescribed to stand, bow and fall prostrate and recite Qur'an and glorify God, then I saw that there is nothing wrong with praying in traditional way. Hope you understand what I'm saying, as well.

Peace

Yes but Jewish prayers also include that. So you don't have to pray in ""traditional way"" . And beside, some have different understanding of prayers, which they are entitled to quranically. I haven't studied the issue of prayer yet, so I cannot talk on behalf of myself yet. I will god willingly study it soon and make up my mind.

Peace

Shirin

Salaam shirin
Oups! i forgot to tell you that i am one of those strange people

i no more make the double false testimony of shahada
i don't believe that salat is prayer but a simple connexion to God by meditating and thinking about his words and creations
i don't believe that ootoo zakat is giving sadaqa but getting mind purification by study of words of god
i don't believe also that hajj is pilgrimage but debate with candidates to islam during feast
i dont believe that siyamm is fasting but spiritual retreat

i believe in quran, in God and all his messengers.
I put all my faith in GOD and his words and in anything else

what a strange religion i am following.
It is based only on quran
i wonder what is its name ?
Can you help me shirin ?

Peace

Hehe, good for you. You believe in your own interpretation of Qur'an, I have my own. Your interpretation allows you to play with people, mine doesn't.

Peace

Shirin

Yes but Jewish prayers also include that. So you don't have to pray in ""traditional way"" . And beside, some have different understanding of prayers, which they are entitled to quranically. I haven't studied the issue of prayer yet, so I cannot talk on behalf of myself yet. I will god willingly study it soon and make up my mind.

Peace

Yeah, but I don't recite Torah or Talmud or , I recite Qur'an. I think that is a big difference.

Peace

Maha

Salaam shirin
Oups! i forgot to tell you that i am one of those strange people

i no more make the double false testimony of shahada
i don't believe that salat is prayer but a simple connexion to God by meditating and thinking about his words and creations
i don't believe that ootoo zakat is giving sadaqa but getting mind purification by study of words of god
i don't believe also that hajj is pilgrimage but debate with candidates to islam during feast
i dont believe that siyamm is fasting but spiritual retreat

i believe in quran, in God and all his messengers.
I put all my faith in GOD and his words and in anything else

what a strange religion i am following.
It is based only on quran
i wonder what is its name ?
Can you help me shirin ?

Peace

Sister I would advice yo? to grow up instead of ridiculously make fun of people with different understanding of the Quran. Just because you disagree with them doesn't give you the right to offend them because as god says in the holy Quran 4911

"and let not one group of believers laugh at the other - they may be better then them"

I hope you understand my point sister .

Peace

Maha

Yeah, but I don't recite Torah or Talmud or , I recite Qur'an. I think that is a big difference.

Peace

But you see its the same with Sunnis. They include non-quranic recitation while praying as well, some of it I personally consider blasphemous for instance mentioning Mohammed in every second sentence. Prayers are for god exclusively IMO.

Peace

Shirin

Sister I would advice yo? to grow up instead of ridiculously make fun of people with different understanding of the Quran. Just because you disagree with them doesn't give you the right to offend them because as god says in the holy Quran 4911

"and let not one group of believers laugh at the other - they may be better then them"

I hope you understand my point sister .

Peace

That's really sweet of you, but let it go. I don't mind. I got used to "holier than thou" attitude from some Muslims. -*

Maha

That's really sweet of you, but let it go. I don't mind. I got used to "holier than thou" attitude from some Muslims. -*

Thats very sad. I also used to have that attitude when I was Sunni but Quran changed me by the grace of God. I personally don't believe the hajj is in mekka, now am I also among those she laugh at?

Seriously guys, let's just respect each others different opinions.

Peace

Shirin

But you see its the same with Sunnis. They include non-quranic recitation while praying as well, some of it I personally consider blasphemous for instance mentioning Mohammed in every second sentence. Prayers are for god exclusively IMO.

Peace

If you are referring to shahada plus "Muhammad is the messenger of God", I personally don't see anything wrong with that, since it is also part of the Qur'an.

If you are referring to Salawats (sp?), I also don't think it is wrong for us to pray to God to exalt the Prophet Muhammad and Abraham, though I also add "and other prophets too".

Other non-Qur'anic recitation is what I think falls under glorifying God.

Peace

Maha

If you are referring to shahada plus "Muhammad is the messenger of God", I personally don't see anything wrong with that, since it is also part of the Qur'an.

If you are referring to Salawats (sp?), I also don't think it is wrong for us to pray to God to exalt the Prophet Muhammad and Abraham, though I also add "and other prophets too".

Other non-Qur'anic recitation is what I think falls under glorifying God.

Peace

Ok I don't agree with praising prophets during a prayer which was supposed to be to god only...mentioning muhammed with god doesn't make sense to me. But going by that logic, I don't understand why you would have a problem with reciting torah in prayers as well.

Peace

Ps what is the point in asking god to exalt Mohammed during a prayer ? Would god exalt him more if I asked him to, or is it because he isn't exalted enough ?

JavaLatte

I just find it disturbing, one would come here and feel offended because others do not believe in stories and fables, then get defensive and annoyed. Then still calling themselves a Muslim, goes and questions the Holy Quran, the words of God.Which he knows to be true. Are you not scared Allah will question you on this? & But you have no fear in following what those who are far less than Allah tell you.

How can you compare the Qu'ran (protected and persisting unaltered truth throughout time) with hadith (unprotected, man-made fabrications alluded to being the words, actions and sometimes appalling behavior of a man of God)?

Agree with you, sister. Why it is so hard for them to understand this hint.

The Qur'an and hadiths can not blend in harmony. We can not mix the truth with falsehood.

noshirk

salaam Shirin and maha

Hehe, good for you. You believe in your own interpretation of Qur'an, I have my own. Your interpretation allows you to play with people, mine doesn't.

I am not "making fun".
Rejecting books of hadiths is only a first step.
The second step is to reject hadiths hidden between the lines of the quran under the form of tafassirs.

There is two quran. The first one is the one that believers read over the lines.
The second one is the one that idolaters reads betwwean the lines inpired by god, where there is tafassirs.

The two qurans are differents, with differentt meanings and leads to two totally differents religions.
For many years, i had a veil on my eyes. I never thought that there were two qurans.
Wasting time in false rites let muslims away from the first quran
Please, tell me who gain from your prostrating and your bowing ? Don't you see that you are making the same rituals as salafist and wahabites and other islamic sects gone astray ?
Have I to demonstrate the gain you obtain from reading and studying words of your GOD three times a day ?

God ask believers to read the first quran. It is the process of total mind purification from all the humans inventions.
It is the "zakat process" reserved to people coming humbly to GOD, putting their faith in him.
And GOD will then explain you Quran. I don't know how he does that but, for sure, he will do it if the reader is sincere (however i can't imagine how he can do such a thing for people not knowing arabic, since i was not in this difficult case)

Notice that Many times, zakat is traduced by purification even by scholars because it was impossible to put "charity"
Zakat process by first quran is totally rejected by idolaters of Hadiths. They never do it and never do the salat asked by god.

I don't ask you to believe me. I just ask you to connect to God with the first quran and ask him purification.
Do you see a trap ?

i have to absent for some days.
However, i recommand you three articles in this site ordered in pedagogic order

http//free-minds.org/how-study-quran
http//free-minds.org/true-testimony
http//free-minds.org/whats-name

They helped me in my second step of hadith rejection

Peace

Maha

salaam Shirin and maha
I am not "making fun".
Rejecting books of hadiths is only a first step.
The second step is to reject hadiths hidden between the lines of the quran under the form of tafassirs.

There is two quran. The first one is the one that believers read over the lines.
The second one is the one that idolaters reads betwwean the lines inpired by god, where there is tafassirs.

The two qurans are differents, with differentt meanings and leads to two totally differents religions.
For many years, i had a veil on my eyes. I never thought that there were two qurans.
Wasting time in false rites let muslims away from the first quran
Please, tell me who gain from your prostrating and your bowing ? Don't you see that you are making the same rituals as salafist and wahabites and other islamic sects gone astray ?
Have I to demonstrate the gain you obtain from reading and studying words of your GOD three times a day ?

God ask believers to read the first quran. It is the process of total mind purification from all the humans inventions.
It is the "zakat process" reserved to people coming humbly to GOD, putting their faith in him.
And GOD will then explain you Quran. I don't know how he does that but, for sure, he will do it if the reader is sincere (however i can't imagine how he can do such a thing for people not knowing arabic, since i was not in this difficult case)

Notice that Many times, zakat is traduced by purification even by scholars because it was impossible to put "charity"
Zakat process by first quran is totally rejected by idolaters of Hadiths. They never do it and never do the salat asked by god.

I don't ask you to believe me. I just ask you to connect to God with the first quran and ask him purification.
Do you see a trap ?

i have to absent for some days.
However, i recommand you three articles in this site ordered in pedagogic order

http//free-minds.org/how-study-quran
http//free-minds.org/true-testimony
http//free-minds.org/whats-name

They helped me in my second step of hadith rejection

Peace

Your previous post just sounded like you was making fun of them. But thank you for your explanation, I agree with you. God can guide and misguide through the Quran depending on if the reader is a since believer or not.

Peace

Bigmo

If you are referring to shahada plus "Muhammad is the messenger of God", I personally don't see anything wrong with that, since it is also part of the Qur'an.

If you are referring to Salawats (sp?), I also don't think it is wrong for us to pray to God to exalt the Prophet Muhammad and Abraham, though I also add "and other prophets too".

Other non-Qur'anic recitation is what I think falls under glorifying God.

Peace

Good point. What people do not understand YET, is that there will be those who will only take from the Quran and they will be those who don't mind taking anything that doe snot necessarily contradict the Quran. There still seems to be the attitude that one is right and the other is wrong. In time people more people will enter the Quranic Islam and these differences will be seen as various schools among the Quranist path. A person of a christian background might find it more comfortrable to go to Church and praise Jesus since the Quran praises Jesus also. But he won't believe in Jesus's divinity or the trinity, at least not in the way many Christians understand it. A person can be going to haj and praying with Muslims but won't believe its binding on everyone but that is teh way he favors worshiping God. A person of a Jewish background might still perform the rituals of Judaism but like a Muslim with hadith, he won't believe all aspects of the Talmud, only the ones that do not contradict the Quran. This will be a truly universalist faith.

The problem now is that some are not able to understand this and try to convinvce others that they are right and others are wrong. Its not whether Mecca is what the Quran is talking about or not but whether its binding. Many prophets did not perform haj there and some may have done it there. Prophets had many pilgrimages and places of worship. Rituals are a means to an end and not an end by themselves. The Quran tells us that every nation have been given rites and rituals, the important thing is why you do it and to whom.

Shirin

Ok I don't agree with praising prophets during a prayer which was supposed to be to god only...mentioning muhammed with god doesn't make sense to me. But going by that logic, I don't understand why you would have a problem with reciting torah in prayers as well.

Peace

Ps what is the point in asking god to exalt Mohammed during a prayer ? Would god exalt him more if I asked him to, or is it because he isn't exalted enough ?

With praying God to exalt the prophets, I'm still praying to God, not to the prophets.

Of course, prophets are exalted already, but what I'm praying for is that God save their, let's say, reputation in people's eyes and hearts. For example, many hadtih followers believe Muhammad said pretty silly things such as "woman are deficient in intelligence" or they believe he married a nine year old girl when he was 50+ etc. On the other hand, in Qur'an, we have that The Almighty said that in Muhammad we have excellent pattern, and I don't see the hadith mentioned above give an excellent example. Now, I am praying to Allah swt to "take off" those inappropriate epithets from Muhammad, in the eyes of people who believe in God and his messengers. You can also apply this silliness attributed to any other prophet described in hadith, Bible, Torah...

Hope you understand what I'm saying.

Peace.