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  4. Right hand possesses in Quran

Right hand possesses in Quran

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • R Offline
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    rameez
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    I found many people here having problem with "right hand possesses" in the verses of Quran which refers to slaves and in many verses it refers to female slaves coz they are mentioned along with wives.

    What are your views on that and why do you think verses do not refer to slaves and the translators are in error ?

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      Mazhar
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      slave
      noun (plural slaves)

      1. somebody forced to work for another somebody who is forced to work for somebody else for no payment and is regarded as the property of that person
      2. dominated person somebody who is dominated by somebody or by something
      3. somebody accepting another's rule somebody who meekly accepts being ruled by somebody else 4. very hard worker somebody who works hard, in bad conditions, and for low pay
      4. device controlled by another an electronic or mechanical device that is controlled by another (often used before a noun)

      intransitive verb (past and past participle slaved, present participle slav?ing, 3rd person present singular slaves)
      work very hard to work very hard
      I've been slaving away over this manuscript all day.

      adjective

      1. using slaves using or relating to enslaved workers
      2. harsh very harsh and unfair
        slave conditions
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        rameez
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        slave
        noun (plural slaves)

        1. somebody forced to work for another somebody who is forced to work for somebody else for no payment and is regarded as the property of that person
        2. dominated person somebody who is dominated by somebody or by something
        3. somebody accepting another's rule somebody who meekly accepts being ruled by somebody else 4. very hard worker somebody who works hard, in bad conditions, and for low pay
        4. device controlled by another an electronic or mechanical device that is controlled by another (often used before a noun)

        intransitive verb (past and past participle slaved, present participle slav?ing, 3rd person present singular slaves)
        work very hard to work very hard
        I've been slaving away over this manuscript all day.

        adjective

        1. using slaves using or relating to enslaved workers
        2. harsh very harsh and unfair
          slave conditions

        I am missing something......what all this has to do with my questions ?

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          Mazhar
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Supporting the point that slaves in the highlighted sense do have relation to the Verbal sentence you are talking about.

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            nimnimak_11
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            To clarify for you, he is essentially saying that Ma Malektat Aymunkum are slaves. This is not something that everyone agrees with (including me) You could check other views.

            Good luck

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              rameez
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              Supporting the point that slaves in the highlighted sense do have relation to the Verbal sentence you are talking about.

              Sorry , but I am still unable to figure out whats your point.

              To clarify for you, he is essentially saying that Ma Malektat Aymunkum are slaves. This is not something that everyone agrees with (including me) You could check other views.

              Good luck

              Ma Malakat Aymanukum is obviously slaves because the word refers to a person who is in your possession or you are owner of that person.

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                Noon_waalqalami
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Ma Malakat Aymanukum is obviously slaves because the word refers to a person who is in your possession or you are owner of that person.

                Peace,

                You'll need to read context; we know people also inherit from their spouses and need to ask -- where are they in this verse?

                433 and to each We made/appointed heirs from what left the parents and the close relatives (i.e. children, brothers, and sisters) and the ones who aqadat pledged your right hands (i.e. their spouses) so give them their share indeed The God is over each a thing Witness

                To imply your right hands means/insert slaves or people are entitled to inherit from their slaves in above verse is ridiculous nor are shares to or from slaves even mentioned.

                See allocations of shares to all legal entities here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.0

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                  nimnimak_11
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  Sorry , but I am still unable to figure out whats your point.

                  Ma Malakat Aymanukum is obviously slaves because the word refers to a person who is in your possession or you are owner of that person.

                  This is pretty much what Mazhar is saying.

                  My issue with taking MMA as slaves is that there is another term for slaves elsewhere. Also the idea that one can unguard their private parts to their zawj or their slaves at 235-6 is wrong IMO. Thus MMA must mean something other than slaves as far as I can see.

                  Also what indication is there that one's right hand possession indicates slaves when the Quran uses the same word to mean oath (eg 2224-225)

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                    Bigmo
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    Sorry , but I am still unable to figure out whats your point.

                    Ma Malakat Aymanukum is obviously slaves because the word refers to a person who is in your possession or you are owner of that person.

                    You possess by OATH. You don't own slaves by oath but by money or inheritance. Slavery is a barbaric Pharoanic concept. The Quran ordered us to free slaves to how can it then tell us to own them?

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                      Bigmo
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Peace,

                      You'll need to read context; we know people also inherit from their spouses and need to ask -- where are they in this verse?

                      433 and to each We made/appointed heirs from what left the parents and the close relatives (i.e. children, brothers, and sisters) and the ones who aqadat pledged your right hands (i.e. their spouses) so give them their share indeed The God is over each a thing Witness

                      To imply your right hands means/insert slaves or people are entitled to inherit from their slaves in above verse is ridiculous nor are shares to or from slaves even mentioned.

                      See allocations of shares to all legal entities here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.0

                      Good point.

                      Also

                      35.42 They swore their strongest oaths by Allah that if a warner came to them, they would follow his guidance better than any (other) of the Peoples But when a warner came to them, it has only increased their flight (from righteousness),-

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                        rameez
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        I will answer it shortly, I think you guys are confusing Arabic.

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                          Noon_waalqalami
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          I will answer it shortly, I think you guys are confusing Arabic.

                          OK we'll wait; here to help you out with a few...

                          3355 not blame onto them in their fathers and not their sons and not their brothers and not their sons their brothers and not their sons their sisters and not their women and not what possess their right hands (i.e. their big black male slaves according to you) and be mindful The God indeed The God is over each a thing Witness

                          231 hence succeed the believers (addresses all male and female believers)
                          232 the ones who they in their prayers humble
                          233 and the ones who they about the nonsense averse/turning away
                          234 and the ones who they of purification works doing
                          235 and the ones who they of their private parts guardians
                          236 only over their spouses or what possess their right hands (i.e. their big black male slaves according to you) so indeed they not blameworthy

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                            Bigmo
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            OK we'll wait; here to help you out with a few...

                            3355 not blame onto them in their fathers and not their sons and not their brothers and not their sons their brothers and not their sons their sisters and not their women and not what possess their right hands (i.e. their big black male slaves according to you) and be mindful The God indeed The God is over each a thing Witness

                            231 hence succeed the believers (addresses all male and female believers)
                            232 the ones who they in their prayers humble
                            233 and the ones who they about the nonsense averse/turning away
                            234 and the ones who they of purification works doing
                            235 and the ones who they of their private parts guardians
                            236 only over their spouses or what possess their right hands (i.e. their big black male slaves according to you) so indeed they not blameworthy

                            For a long time, until the early 18th century Crimean Khanate maintained massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East. Between 1530 and 1780 there were almost certainly 1 million and quite possibly as many as 1.25 million white, European Christians enslaved by the Muslims of the Barbary Coast.

                            http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_slavery#Arab_slave_trade

                            They could be big white slaves also yes

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                              Maha
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              I will answer it shortly, I think you guys are confusing Arabic.

                              So you believe in rape ? Or is it sex slavery you believe in?

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                                rameez
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                So you believe in rape ? Or is it sex slavery you believe in?

                                I don't know how did you get from "right hand possesses" to rape ?

                                sex slavery ? No . From hadiths it is clear that they are those kuffars who were captured in wars.

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                                  Maha
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  I don't know how did you get from "right hand possesses" to rape ?

                                  sex slavery ? No . From hadiths it is clear that they are those kuffars who were captured in wars.

                                  So your hadith says that kuffars kidnapped in war shall be turned into sex slaves ? That's called "rape".

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                                    rameez
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Some arabic words to understand

                                    oaths=aymna
                                    your oaths=aymnikum
                                    their oaths=aymnihim
                                    your right hand=aymnukum
                                    their right hand=aymnuhum

                                    Peace,

                                    You'll need to read context; we know people also inherit from their spouses and need to ask -- where are they in this verse?

                                    433 and to each We made/appointed heirs from what left the parents and the close relatives (i.e. children, brothers, and sisters) and the ones who aqadat pledged your right hands (i.e. their spouses) so give them their share indeed The God is over each a thing Witness

                                    To imply your right hands means/insert slaves or people are entitled to inherit from their slaves in above verse is ridiculous nor are shares to or from slaves even mentioned.

                                    See allocations of shares to all legal entities here http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604035.0

                                    No where the verse uses the word slave. It is correctly translated as pledged your right hands . This doesn't mean slave in any context, because the word "aymanukum" is not preceded by "ma malakat" which means "what possess". This term simply refers to those whom you have made any agreement.

                                    Good point.

                                    Also

                                    35.42 They swore their strongest oaths by Allah that if a warner came to them, they would follow his guidance better than any (other) of the Peoples But when a warner came to them, it has only increased their flight (from righteousness),-

                                    You are confusing the word aymnihim with aymnuhum. The verse do not mention their right hands.

                                    OK we'll wait; here to help you out with a few...

                                    3355 not blame onto them in their fathers and not their sons and not their brothers and not their sons their brothers and not their sons their sisters and not their women and not what possess their right hands (i.e. their big black male slaves according to you) and be mindful The God indeed The God is over each a thing Witness

                                    231 hence succeed the believers (addresses all male and female believers)
                                    232 the ones who they in their prayers humble
                                    233 and the ones who they about the nonsense averse/turning away
                                    234 and the ones who they of purification works doing
                                    235 and the ones who they of their private parts guardians
                                    236 only over their spouses or what possess their right hands (i.e. their big black male slaves according to you) so indeed they not blameworthy

                                    Please clarify what do you mean by Big black male slaves.

                                    For the verse 3355 , yes it is talking about slaves, but there is nothing about SEX or PRIVATE PARTS in this verse. It just talks about those people with whom women can converse without hijab.

                                    For 236 , it is a consensus that it is referring to "wives" and female slave girls, there is no difference of opinion in this.

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                                      rameez
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      So your hadith says that kuffars kidnapped in war shall be turned into sex slaves ? That's called "rape".

                                      sex slaves? Did I ever use this term ? They will be distributed among mujahideens and they must take care of them. One permission granted to the owners of slave girls is that they can have sexual intercourse with them. I don't know how you consider this to be rape.

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                                        Maha
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        whatever

                                        sex slaves? Did I ever use this term ? They will be distributed among mujahideens and they must take care of them. One permission granted to the owners of slave girls is that they can have sexual intercourse with them. I don't know how you consider this to be rape.

                                        Just listen to yourself. Mujaheden make war, and kidnap women. They are being "distributed" and enslaved and then used for sex.

                                        That is called "rape" . Otherwise, tell me, would your mother willingly have sex with the enemy of her country who enslaved her?

                                        A slave you use for sex is called "sex slave".

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                                          rameez
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          whatever
                                          Just listen to yourself. Mujaheden make war, and kidnap women. They are being "distributed" and enslaved and then used for sex.

                                          That is called "rape" . Otherwise, tell me, would your mother willingly have sex with the enemy of her country who enslaved her?

                                          A slave you use for sex is called "sex slave".

                                          You are getting emotional.

                                          Please explain to me who are these women who are my possession but not my wife and I don't have to guard my private parts from them ?

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