Right hand possesses in Quran
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Slavery is properly the worst type of oppression. No wonder why nobody wants to be a slave. But hey don't you see, hadithers enslaved and raped people in the name of Allah, Muhammad and sahaba. I fail to see how that is better then terrorism.
Peace
Which is why slavery was done in hiding by the Muslim authorities. My brother even believes Islam abolished slavery. This is not the nstuff they hear in Friday sermons. Clerics know this is hard to defend so they conceal this from the masses. It took the Islam bashers to bring that out and with the net more people will hear about it.
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Dictionaries do not explain hadiths, they explain Arabic. Any one can simply see how you Quranists are fail to even provide evidence from Arabic. I have only quoted Arabic sources (dictionaries).
I do not know Arabic that is why I am quoting Dictionaries.
Your hatred for hadiths and stupid interpretation of Quran can be simply seen from your comments. Instead of whining about "hadithers" , please give me reference from arabic sources for "ma malakat ayamnukum" .
I think you detect that MMA is a complicated subject where Quranist can differ and you want to use that issue as a way to show that the Quranist persuasion is wrong. If I can prove they are wrong about this issue or they have no answer than that means they are not right about their Islam. I think this is the way you think. There are many issues you can discuss but you seem to like this issue now that you found that MMA is complicated and the verses in the Quran are not explicit. You stopped defending Sunni Islam and started attacking the Quranist way which tells me that you are not able to defend Sunni Islam. I noticed you are dwelling on linguism rather than explaining to us why slavery should be made permissible and why should prisoners be enslaved and be forced to have sex?
I think its going to be hard to defend this. Even the Sunni clerics avoid this. You probably find it convenient to try to find fault in the MMA translation of some Quranist detecting that the Quran is not explicit about it.
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This rameez is nuts. He argues that he can have sex with married women. And earlier he argued sex with kuffar. God has made something called AIDS for these people. Hopefully he isn
t married to an actual muslimah, but a repulsive hadither like himself, because shed likely contract it from him.It`s a good thing he comes in here and demonstrates how mindless the hadithers are.
We just had another one in here earlier, who deemed it "islam" and defended hadithism, deemed us to believe wrong, and be disbelievers, yet not soon after he entered, he started flirting and talking about marriage!
This guy too, just as soon as he gets into forum, the talk is reduced to revolving about the simplest desires."Satan follows his desire".
Peace
Like I said, rather than learn he is giving us a very bad example. Many here will see this as a lesson to avoid debating Sunnis. He could have came here and tried to learn and ask questions. But he is deeply sectarian.
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Sectarian? I don't know, he is a scratched vinyl record. You point things out and he says "diictionaries...", no matter what argument you put forward, the invariable answer is "dictionnaries..." I doubt that he even follows any dictionnary, because he restrict automatically the meaning of malaka however many aceptions the dictionnaries may give. No, he is playign us dumb thinking that he is winning some contest or something. Obviously he is not winning anything, but he is wasting his time. He doesn't want to know, too bad for him. His ignorance and bigotry is his business, and "dictionnaries..." the key to success. Oh yes, hayyalalfalah! hayyalalfalah! come to the dictionnaries...! come to the dictionnaries...!
Ya salaam!
Salaam
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For slaves, what was the need to use a complete verbal sentence when there is a single word slaves ?
The word is not even close to the English word slave.
devotee/servant The God
A slave is someone forced, captured, and under threat and peril made to work for free against their will and do other inhuman things which everyone who supports slavery or owns slaves is a detestable ape, same as a lowlife pimp!
That is the reason I have been advising you to start taking classes in Arabic.
Sahih International the free for the free, the slave for the slave,
Pickthall the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave
Yusuf Ali the free for the free, the slave for the slave,http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/178/default.htm
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That is the reason I have been advising you to start taking classes in Arabic.
Sahih International the free for the free, the slave for the slave,
Pickthall the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave
Yusuf Ali the free for the free, the slave for the slave,http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/178/default.htm
Mazhar -- you are one dumb OX!
In English it's better as devotee/servant not slave! That is stupid! Don't hide behind Pickthall or Yusuf Ali you coward!
slave
noun/slv/
slaves, pluralA person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them -- against their will!!!
Word History The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical. The word slave first appears in English around 1290!
Slavery is properly the worst type of oppression. No wonder why nobody wants to be a slave. But hey don't you see, hadithers enslaved and raped people in the name of Allah, Muhammad and sahaba. I fail to see how that is better then terrorism.
Peace
Peace Maha -- yes and they translate detestable hideous practice to be the same as devotee/servant The God
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That is the reason I have been advising you to start taking classes in Arabic.
Sahih International the free for the free, the slave for the slave,
Pickthall the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave
Yusuf Ali the free for the free, the slave for the slave,http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/178/default.htm
That is the same as an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. Apples for apples, oranges for oranges. The law of proprtionality. The punishment should fit the crime. Unlike Sunni islam the Quran does not recognize deterence as a goal for punishment but only proportional justice.
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That is the reason I have been advising you to start taking classes in Arabic.
Sahih International the free for the free, the slave for the slave,
Pickthall the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave
Yusuf Ali the free for the free, the slave for the slave,http//www.islamawakened.com/quran/2/178/default.htm
Mazhar -- you are one dumb OX!
In English it's better as devotee/servant not slave! That is stupid! Don't hide behind Pickthall or Yusuf Ali you coward!
slave
noun/slv/
slaves, pluralFew others
Edip-Layth 2178 O you who acknowledge, equivalent execution has been decreed for you in the cases of killings the free for the free, the slave for the slave,
Monotheist group 2178 O you who believe, equivalence has been decreed for you in the case of those who are slain; the free for the free, and the slave for the slave,I am one dumb OX so declared out of hundred Oxen including Layeth. Thanks, I would better like associate with them running away from you..........
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Few others
Edip-Layth 2178 O you who acknowledge, equivalent execution has been decreed for you in the cases of killings the free for the free, the slave for the slave,
Monotheist group 2178 O you who believe, equivalence has been decreed for you in the case of those who are slain; the free for the free, and the slave for the slave,I am one dumb OX so declared out of hundred Oxen including Layeth. Thanks, I would better like associate with them running away from you..........
You get the title dumb OX for other reasons; you don't have basic logic, you don't understand a simple IF statement, you are clueless on basic reading comprehension skills and you are too proud/bullheaded to admit your errors while the others I'm sure once they realize that the English word slave is not befitting (we'll perhaps not Edip -- another clueless ranter and numerologist) will correct themselves use the more suitable in any language devotee/servant The God ...
slave
noun/slv/
slaves, pluralA person who is the legal property of another and is forced to obey them -- against their will!!!
Word History The derivation of the word slave encapsulates a bit of European history and explains why the two words slaves and Slavs are so similar; they are, in fact, historically identical. The word slave first appears in English around 1290!
stupid inappropriate translation...
379 not is to a human that gives him The God the book and the wisdom and the prophet-hood then he says to the mankind be (a person who is the legal property of another, unsubmissive, and forced to obey them against their will!!!) to me from besides The God
appropriate better translation...
379 not is to a human that gives him The God the book and the wisdom and the prophet-hood then he says to the mankind be devotees/servants to me from besides The God
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Sectarian? I don't know, he is a scratched vinyl record. You point things out and he says "diictionaries...", no matter what argument you put forward, the invariable answer is "dictionnaries..." I doubt that he even follows any dictionnary, because he restrict automatically the meaning of malaka however many aceptions the dictionnaries may give. No, he is playign us dumb thinking that he is winning some contest or something. Obviously he is not winning anything, but he is wasting his time. He doesn't want to know, too bad for him. His ignorance and bigotry is his business, and "dictionnaries..." the key to success. Oh yes, hayyalalfalah! hayyalalfalah! come to the dictionnaries...! come to the dictionnaries...!
Ya salaam!
Salaam
Yes and you want me to discard all dictionaries and accept random bunch of idiots on some internet forum who are still not clear that how to interpret "right hand possess".
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I think you detect that MMA is a complicated subject where Quranist can differ and you want to use that issue as a way to show that the Quranist persuasion is wrong. If I can prove they are wrong about this issue or they have no answer than that means they are not right about their Islam. I think this is the way you think. There are many issues you can discuss but you seem to like this issue now that you found that MMA is complicated and the verses in the Quran are not explicit. You stopped defending Sunni Islam and started attacking the Quranist way which tells me that you are not able to defend Sunni Islam. I noticed you are dwelling on linguism rather than explaining to us why slavery should be made permissible and why should prisoners be enslaved and be forced to have sex?
I think its going to be hard to defend this. Even the Sunni clerics avoid this. You probably find it convenient to try to find fault in the MMA translation of some Quranist detecting that the Quran is not explicit about it.
I am not at all saying that IF YOU DONT HAVE EXPLANATION THAN YOU MUST ACCEPT MINE. But at least when you say "rameez you are wrong" then please say this with some evidence, instead of IMOs
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Listen buddy, I am an Arabic speaker. You knows next to nothing about Arabic. So I don't need your dictionaries but i have given references from free mind dictionary. Dude, learn some Arabic then we can talk .. Otherwise Good luck with raping sex slaves in the name of Allah and Mohammed
The dictionary authors are too and they learn grammars etc. Just speaking is not sufficient, I am speaking urdu for more than 23 years of my life but it doesn't mean I understand all its grammatical and lexical stuff .
Learning arabic is not a point here, point is to prove that "ma malakat aymanuhum"="what maintained by oaths"
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2 and 3 are certainly beyond the scope of the sentence. Similarly the sentence has nothing to do with possess since possess is for inanimate objects not humans in the sense of property. In relation to men and women it only denoties authority, administrative power to direct their affair and be responsible since authority and responsible are inseperable.
See an example
they are asking for appointing a commandar----ruler who has the authority to dicatate and receive obedience.
One of the par excellence characterstics of Qur'aan is its succintness, that is to express with brevity and clarity, with no wasted words. For slaves, what was the need to use a complete verbal sentence when there is a single word slaves ?
Can you quote me your translation of the verse 2433 ?
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Can you quote me your translation of the verse 2433 ?
What about the point clarified in the quote?
Take note that those people should retain their selves continent and virtuous, who find not wedding opportunity, till such time that Allah the Exalted might make them Self-Sufficient out of His Bounty.
And abide by the following instruction regards those-Men and Women, being in circumstance that right hand of you have the authority for ordering and managing their affair-your House-Servants, who seek the proclamation of independence-freedom-self governance.
Thereby on their desiring, you the Guardians-House Masters, subject to having found in them sustainable ability-betterment, are hereby commanded to afford them the Written Proclamation of freedom-self governance.
And give them out of that wealth which Allah the Exalted has granted to you people.
Further, you people should not compel the House-Maids in submission to you people towards debauchery; since they had willingly decided-opted subjugation-became servant for security of chastity, with the diligent intention that you people might seek the apparent gains of worldly life.
Mind it, should someone forcefully compels them, thereby, it is a fact that for all that forcefully done in the state of their abhorrence, Allah the Exalted is the Forgiving, the Merciful*.
*Right hand
( ة
. .
He described that the basic perception infolded therein is of right hand which signifies power, force, authority. That the right hand connotes prosperity and blessedness. Further, that right hand connotes "oath". An obligation, a responsibility, an oath is normally and reflexively pledged by raising right hand, or striking right hand on the palm of another person. It is customary in many societies*. Interestingly power-authority and responsibility/obligation are inseparably associated, and an equal accountability of subject is attached. In English also, the word "hand" connotes "guardianship", "authority", "the power, responsibility, or care of somebody (usually used in the plural)"
Notwithstanding that same word refers to "the right hand" and connotes "the oaths", it will cause no ambiguity in the text since both are different in essence. "Oath" is abstract noun while "right hand" is a concrete noun. The abstract is that which exists only in our minds, that which we cannot know through our senses. It includes qualities, relationships, conditions, ideas, theories, and states of being, fields of inquiry and the like. Concrete words refer to things we can touch, see, hear, smell, and taste. "Oath" is either a statement of fact or a promise. A promise is a commitment by someone to do or not do something. Therefore, when is used as the Subject of a transitive Verb like , there is absolutely no reason that someone be confused to take it as "oaths" instead of "authority and responsibility to administer the affair of the object person".
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/4.%20Articles%20Ontology/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum.htm
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What about the point clarified in the quote?
Take note that those people should retain their selves continent and virtuous, who find not wedding opportunity, till such time that Allah the Exalted might make them Self-Sufficient out of His Bounty.
And abide by the following instruction regards those-Men and Women, being in circumstance that right hand of you have the authority for ordering and managing their affair-your House-Servants, who seek the proclamation of independence-freedom-self governance.
Thereby on their desiring, you the Guardians-House Masters, subject to having found in them sustainable ability-betterment, are hereby commanded to afford them the Written Proclamation of freedom-self governance.
And give them out of that wealth which Allah the Exalted has granted to you people.
Further, you people should not compel the House-Maids in submission to you people towards debauchery; since they had willingly decided-opted subjugation-became servant for security of chastity, with the diligent intention that you people might seek the apparent gains of worldly life.
Mind it, should someone forcefully compels them, thereby, it is a fact that for all that forcefully done in the state of their abhorrence, Allah the Exalted is the Forgiving, the Merciful*.
*Right hand
( ة
. .
He described that the basic perception infolded therein is of right hand which signifies power, force, authority. That the right hand connotes prosperity and blessedness. Further, that right hand connotes "oath". An obligation, a responsibility, an oath is normally and reflexively pledged by raising right hand, or striking right hand on the palm of another person. It is customary in many societies*. Interestingly power-authority and responsibility/obligation are inseparably associated, and an equal accountability of subject is attached. In English also, the word "hand" connotes "guardianship", "authority", "the power, responsibility, or care of somebody (usually used in the plural)"
Notwithstanding that same word refers to "the right hand" and connotes "the oaths", it will cause no ambiguity in the text since both are different in essence. "Oath" is abstract noun while "right hand" is a concrete noun. The abstract is that which exists only in our minds, that which we cannot know through our senses. It includes qualities, relationships, conditions, ideas, theories, and states of being, fields of inquiry and the like. Concrete words refer to things we can touch, see, hear, smell, and taste. "Oath" is either a statement of fact or a promise. A promise is a commitment by someone to do or not do something. Therefore, when is used as the Subject of a transitive Verb like , there is absolutely no reason that someone be confused to take it as "oaths" instead of "authority and responsibility to administer the affair of the object person".
http//haqeeqat.org.pk/English%20Tafsir%20e%20Haqeeqat/000.%20Encyclopaedia%20of%20Arabic%20of%20Qur'aan/4.%20Articles%20Ontology/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum/3.%20Ma%20Malakat%20Aimanukum.htm
isnt it possible to get straight and simple answer from quranists here ? I am simply asking for YOUR translation of 2433 .
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Further, you people should not compel the House-Maids in submission to you people towards debauchery; since they had willingly decided-opted subjugation-became servant for security of chastity, with the diligent intention that you people might seek the apparent gains of worldly life.
Where the verse says "house-maids" ?
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Yes and you want me to discard all dictionaries and accept random bunch of idiots on some internet forum who are still not clear that how to interpret "right hand possess".
Oh no, dear, you are wrong. I don't want you to do anything at all. The things you write are just funny enough like that, no need for improvement. Just carry on like that.
Salaam
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Oh no, dear, you are wrong. I don't want you to do anything at all. The things you write are just funny enough like that, no need for improvement. Just carry on like that.
Salaam
Lol. Its common on internet discussions when people run out of arguments they start saying stuff like you are saying.
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And you people arrange marriage of those amongst you who are in the state of Singles-unmarried.
And you people arrange marriage of the Righteous who are in the capacity of your Male-Servants-Serfs and Female house-servants/Bond Women-Serfs.
Notwithstanding, they are presently in state of dependency-poverty, should Allah the Exalted so desire, He the Exalted will make them self-sufficient by grants from His Bounty.
Remain aware that Allah the Exalted is beyond bounds-eternally above limits, eternally all-Knowing.