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  4. The One Who's Not God

The One Who's Not God

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • B Offline
    B Offline
    bkanwar2
    wrote on last edited by
    #18

    Exactly. We cannot figure out God with our minds. It is like a computer game character trying to figure out the programmer, but cannot reach into that reality. We are told not to associate IT with anything, so we should not make images of God made up of physical things like light and energy or anything else. Peace.

    Hence, the meaning of word Allah as "one who is not at all a deity for worship". Not like this deity or that deity. One is not a deity and hence, there is not deity at all to worship. Does not current meaning of Allah create a mental picture? I do not need an answer to this question. Just be honest to yourselves and answer it.

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    • F Offline
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      Flame_Master
      wrote on last edited by
      #19

      Also, I mis-spoke earlier... I don't think that God is Energy. What I meant to say was that when I think of God, I think of just pure energy.

      Its kinda weird how "we" perceive "Pure Energy" (because I imagine that as a blob of some kind of white light and what not - in reality, we don't know what pure Energy is, maybe matter itself?)
      btw, I love your Avatar, its just so funny P

      Yes, God as Energy/light may explain the omnipotent, and omni-presence of God

      God being Energy would imply mass and that he somehow dilates the space-time metric => He will be subject to Gravity - which is just plain weird for God!
      God being Light would limit him at the speed of light and he will still be subjected to Gravity
      (Because they just indicate a paradox, like, Can God make a law which he is subject to (Energy-Gravity)? or Can God make a mountain which he cannot jump over? to give some examples)

      God being Energy also leads to some kind of Pantheism, since God is Energy and all matter is Energy, so one can also worship matter P
      God being Light cannot make him Omnipotent, being Energy might, but I am not very sure

      If God were light, then it'd be very easy to hide from God P (know what I mean )

      To me God is the one who made all these laws of Physics, Maths and things I do not know, a being so far high that his beauty and majesty are so intensely high that we cannot comprehend entirely and hinted by everything from Laws of Biology, ei=-1 and the Universe (which we evolved somehow to see it as being beautiful, even though its dangerous P )

      No, it really doesn't. For example, how can God be all-knowing if He is limited to the speed of light? Are you saying that God is subject to the laws of thermodynamics?

      Couldn't agree more )

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      • Z Offline
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        Zulf
        wrote on last edited by
        #20

        Does not current meaning of Allah create a mental picture? I do not need an answer to this question. Just be honest to yourselves and answer it.

        Giving an answer anyway

        It doesn't create a mental image with me, because I'm not raised in an environment that uses the word 'Allah'. But, the word 'God' does, like you implied, create an image... a useless image... and that's what I always want to stay away from. Bytheway, I sometimes use the word 'Being' instead of 'God' or 'Allah', when speaking English, since this really is neutral to me... and therefore closer to reality.

        Cheers and peace

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        • S Offline
          S Offline
          sonnie
          wrote on last edited by
          #21

          I have come to realize, that God is the Truth Manifested

          226 That is because God is the truth, and He gives life to the dead, and He is capable of all things.
          2262 That is because God is the truth, and what they call on besides Him is falsehood. And God is the Most High, the Great.
          2425 On that Day, God will pay them what they are owed in full, and they will know that God is the Truth Manifested.
          3130 That is because God is the truth, and that which they call on besides Him is falsehood, and that God is the Most High, the Great.
          See this thread for more...
          http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604656.0

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          • B Offline
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            bkanwar2
            wrote on last edited by
            #22

            For all "Nay sayers" here is very humbly something to consider with open mind

            255

            , take it as a proper name, like you do and want to take it. Due "Raffa" at end letter it is a "subject" of sentence.

            a particle used for negation, meaning "not".

            . due "Nasab" at last letter has to be an "object" of sentence.

            Let us translate it

            Allah is not an Illah. What was Illah, the pagan unseen highest god. The highest unseen deity for worship. Shall it be more explicit than this?

            Hope it shall help you to open your eyes, my brothers and sisters.

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            • M Offline
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              mmkhan
              wrote on last edited by
              #23

              Salaam,

              Well! Brother bkanwar2, can you please translate for me 4171?

              4171

              4171 O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Maseeh, Eisa, the son of Maryam, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Maryam and a soul from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one ilaha. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

              You can only translate the highlighted part from this aayat.

              May Allah protect us and increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
              mmKhan

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              • B Offline
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                bkanwar2
                wrote on last edited by
                #24

                Mr. Khan time permiting, I shall fulfill your wish soon. However, if you know even basic of arabic. Please point out any mistakes in above translation.

                Regards

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                • M Offline
                  M Offline
                  mmkhan
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #25

                  Mr. Khan time permiting, I shall fulfill your wish soon. However, if you know even basic of arabic. Please point out any mistakes in above translation.

                  Regards

                  Thank you...

                  Please take your time... but do let me know where is that aayat you have quoted, please give me the sura and aayat.

                  Thanks and regards.

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                  • B Offline
                    B Offline
                    bkanwar2
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #26

                    a particle meaning truly or verily
                    A proper name by common understanding for our Rabb, (you know linguistic understanding rendered earlier as one who is not a deity for worship?). But let us stick to it as proper name. Syntactically, it is the subject of sentence or

                    a compound or it is predicate/object or of the sentence. Have two words in it as one could see.

                    means an unseen deity for worship or a god

                    here is the problem. Usually it is understood as word with meaning ?one or only?

                    Let us analyze, if this understanding is correct or wrong based upon linguistic facts and rules.
                    Most Arabic words have a three letter root. All roots have a basic meaning. From these three letter roots are derived further words based upon well defined measures or . These measures add meanings to root meanings.

                    With this quick recap let us apply these basic principles to this word
                    Root
                    Measure , root becomes

                    Root meaning ? he became alone apart from others?. Please see link
                    http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000181.pdf
                    Please add meaning of , he separates himself from all others. Who are all others? next word of illah or god, as part of compound, is used to define these others.

                    So meanings

                    ?Surely, Allah separates himself from all concepts of illah or god?.

                    Now if replace real meaning of Allah

                    ?Surely, One who is not a deity for worship, separates himself from all concepts of illah or god?.

                    So please tell me, the entity who is seperating oneself from all concepts of gods/deities for worship. Why would one want to be a god oneself? The word god itself means a deity for worship.

                    Regards,

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                    • Z Offline
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                      Zulf
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #27

                      So wahid is a verb now?

                      Well, regardless of whether this interpretation of the words is correct and valid or not, the meaning makes total sense... regardless.

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                      • B Offline
                        B Offline
                        bkanwar2
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #28

                        No it is a verbal noun. Please read carefully.

                        Regards

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                        • Z Offline
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                          Zulf
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #29

                          Sorry, I can't see any pointer to 'verbal noun'... but I'm just a layman and I don't know too much about the intricacies of grammar. But I find it interesting and I will follow this thread, and I hope those with good knowledge of grammar will take part in the discussion.

                          Cheers

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                          • B Offline
                            B Offline
                            bkanwar2
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #30

                            [
                            Measure , root becomes

                            http//www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume8/00000181.pdf
                            Please add meaning of , he separates himself from all others.

                            It is a very basic measure of verbal nouns. It adds meaning of one doing act/verb contained in verbal root itself, but described as a noun.

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                            • B Offline
                              B Offline
                              bkanwar2
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #31

                              Thank you...

                              Please take your time... but do let me know where is that aayat you have quoted, please give me the sura and and ayat.

                              Thanks and regards.

                              ]

                              Sorry missed this part. It is Sura Baqra, Aya 255, popularly know as Ayat Al Kursi.

                              Regards

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                              • B Offline
                                B Offline
                                Bender
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #32

                                ]

                                Sorry missed this part. It is Sura Baqra, Aya 255, popularly know as Ayat Al Kursi.

                                Regards

                                Salaam,

                                May I ask how you define God.
                                Not Allah as he is not a God according to you.
                                Just God.

                                Salaam,
                                Bender

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                                • B Offline
                                  B Offline
                                  bkanwar2
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #33

                                  English word god is not a name. It is title, given to a deity/entity that is worthy of worship.

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                                  • B Offline
                                    B Offline
                                    Bender
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #34

                                    English word god is not a name. It is title, given to a deity/entity that is worthy of worship.

                                    Salaam,

                                    Thank you, I don't think the red part is correct.

                                    What is according you the difference between God and Allah?

                                    Salaam,
                                    Bender

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                                    • M Offline
                                      M Offline
                                      mmkhan
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #35

                                      ]

                                      Sorry missed this part. It is Sura Baqra, Aya 255, popularly know as Ayat Al Kursi.

                                      Regards

                                      That's ok...

                                      But brother you mis-used the aayat, let me show how.

                                      2255 ...

                                      Why didn't you translate this red part in your reply#21? Can you please translate this complete part mentioned above . Thanks!

                                      May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                                      mmKhan

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                                      • B Offline
                                        B Offline
                                        bkanwar2
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #36

                                        Salaam,

                                        Thank you, I don't think the red part is correct.

                                        What is according you the difference between God and Allah?

                                        Salaam,
                                        Bender

                                        Brother you are free to think whatever you like. However, description given for concept of the word god, is not mine. It is by religious, philosphers and scholars of the said language.

                                        Conceptually, word Allah, as it is understood and as well, manifested by practice of religion of Islam today. I do not find any difference in concept. Difference is only in practice of mode and rituals of worship for the two.

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                                        • B Offline
                                          B Offline
                                          bkanwar2
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #37

                                          That's ok...

                                          But brother you mis-used the aayat, let me show how.

                                          2255 ...

                                          Why didn't you translate this red part in your reply#21? Can you please translate this complete part mentioned above . Thanks!

                                          May Allah increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
                                          mmKhan

                                          Allah is not a deity for worship, except he
                                          But let me decode for you fully, so you may percieve the depth of this sentence.

                                          ( )
                                          One who is not a deity for worship, does not at all belong to genus/specie of illah (deity for worship).

                                          This part of verse( ) after denying Allah as deity for worship is followed by "La" as a particle of negation, used here as " La-e- Nafee alJiins" due Nasab on illah. Illah here is not object of the sentence. But it is repeated to deny any and every such concept of deity for worship. Please contemplate.

                                          Regards

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