Archaeological/Historical Evidence For Quran
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Do not strain yourself. I got it the first time. You want me to make a statement saying that I don't know what I know or saying that since I cannot vouch for absolutely everything, I cannot vouch for anything.
I was saying that
- you should be careful of "Subjective opinion" as it will cloud your judgement.
- You should start applying the same criterias of judgement to all things, including yourselves or thing which you consider/identified as 'yours' (your holy book, your opinion, your religion, your sect, your nationality, your ethnicity, your family, your children etc..)
And what I stated about the Qur'an, I maintain.
It's fine as long as you don't put the "X is True because Quran (or other books you considered holy) said it's true".
Which is kind of ridiculous..Salam / Peace
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What we know from Pazuzus research that probably (or sure) the hole history is a fake and it seems that the origin from the Quran is in Saudi Arabien or Yemen. But, i think i must ask myself is this fact really important?
It's not a 'fact' it's merely his hypothesis.. a weak one according to my opinion..
And NO it's NOT IMPORTANT at all... and will not change anything..It is important to prove that the Quran is from God? It is important to know for my rescue, where the Prophet lived?
Again not important...
What is the message that comes to us through all the books?
That everything that happened to you or others are meant to be happening. and you should accept it..
Only then you shall find your own peace..The same above principle is also laid out in other materials (Torah, Bible, Ghita, Tao Te Ching etc..)
Salam / Peace
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I was saying that
- you should be careful of "Subjective opinion" as it will cloud your judgement.
- You should start applying the same criterias of judgement to all things, including yourselves or thing which you consider/identified as 'yours' (your holy book, your opinion, your religion, your sect, your nationality, your ethnicity, your family, your children etc..)
It's fine as long as you don't put the "X is True because Quran (or other books you considered holy) said it's true".
Which is kind of ridiculous..Salam / Peace
Well what I have said is that what I have experienced and verified for myself from the Qur'an I have found truthful, therefore I have no reason to say that anything in the Qur'an is not truthful. Ik I ever find something that to my best understanding it is not, then I will acknowledge to myself that it is not. But that has not happened. Quite the opposite I have found in the Qur'an a level and a quality of truth and independence and unsubservience that have strengthened my trust in it. That I cannot say of the Bible, where things that seem as far as I can judge, good, are good, but on which I would never put my hand in the fire on trust, because there are things, verifiably to my understanding that cannot be from God not even holy or truthful or even moral. Same with number of hadiths.
That is what I said, that is what I maintain, and therefore, no, no way that the Bible, hadith and Qur'an are on a level. The one I trust because I have found all the reasons that humans rely on to trust anything or anybody, but I cannot say as much about the bible or the hadith. They are the product of humans with self interests sometimes noble, sometimes not at all noble, sometimes outright disgusting as I said.
Salaam
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Peace everyone
I think the fact that we cannot prove historically or archaeologically the origin of quran is a proof in itself that it is from GOD
I mean if something is created by human we can trace back its history and its origin....likewise we can't do that for everything created by God...
We cannot trace back origin of human beings, can we?....where n when we were created....how we came about being what we are....what is the history of origin of animals....we cannot....n so that in itself is a proof that we are created by God n so are animals...
We tend to prove quran or any other scripture with limited knowledge in science, history, archaeology etc rather approach should be different. Instead of proving it word of god...we should ask y it cant be word of god....
I find Quran to be word of God because
1, No one can claim that it was written by me. In other word it has got no author.
2, No one have understood it completely.
3, No one was able to find inconsistency in its verses. By that i mean is if some thing is mentioned at one place, it is mentioned the same way at other places.
4, I don't think there is any book including Bible in its present form which has got so many layers of understanding. I find it like a puzzle which has never been solved.
5, How can any person change it when to understand it is difficult.As far as other scriptures are present there is lot of information present but there is lot of misinformation present alongside it....when Allah said that quran has come as a criterion (furqaan) and it confirms what was revealed before (which got corrupted) i believe we can find a great deal of good information in all the scriptures by keeping it a criteria to decide what can be correct and what can be corruption.
Thanks
Salam Ammi,
Thank you so much for that post. It's an incredibly interesting perspective that I could easily agree with! It made a lot of sense.
Thanks again,
Peace and blessings!
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Salam
interesting discussion
What we know from Pazuzus research that probably (or sure) the hole history is a fake and it seems that the origin from the Quran is in Saudi Arabien or Yemen. But, i think i must ask myself is this fact really important? yes maybe to know or to understand why we see this big problems in the world today.. Yes. But for our relationship with Allah?
The Quran states that he is a book for people who think. So when we read the Quran and study it, try to understand it's message, what is the most important?
that we understand there is a God and there is a hereafter, there is a life after the death.
We can discuss hundred years about the question if the Quran is true or not. Many will say yes and many no-so this is in fact our test..
we read the Quran and see no unlogic, no violence, no oppression, no needless stories, why we should not believe?
The Quran tells us that the Torah and the Psalms and the Injeel were writing from God. He tells us, however, that they have been altered by rabbis and violent people.
This is a fact no one can deny. Why should I reject this book when my brain is my logic and my feeling see nothing wrong in it?
There are also many indications or signs in the Qur'an, which points out that the book is not of human origin. One sign of this is his linguistics and his choice of words, and to his composition (word pairs, etc., 19 also)
But the question is really
It is important to prove that the Quran is from God? It is important to know for my rescue, where the Prophet lived?
What is the message that comes to us through all the books?hurufI see this, Gott sei Dank--can you speak German ? would be great, because sometimes I lack the words to express myself precise in English ...
SalamsA very good pint mirjamnur. Thank you so much!
Peace and blessings. yay
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@mirjamnur that was supposed to be "point" not "pint". Haha. Sorry!!
I think I've found my answer thanks to everyone's replies. Thanks guys! But feel free to keep chatting about things.
Much love, peace and blessings to all! group
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Salam
interesting discussion
What we know from Pazuzus research that probably (or sure) the hole history is a fake and it seems that the origin from the Quran is in Saudi Arabien or Yemen. But, i think i must ask myself is this fact really important? yes maybe to know or to understand why we see this big problems in the world today.. Yes. But for our relationship with Allah?
The Quran states that he is a book for people who think. So when we read the Quran and study it, try to understand it's message, what is the most important?
that we understand there is a God and there is a hereafter, there is a life after the death.
We can discuss hundred years about the question if the Quran is true or not. Many will say yes and many no-so this is in fact our test..
we read the Quran and see no unlogic, no violence, no oppression, no needless stories, why we should not believe?
The Quran tells us that the Torah and the Psalms and the Injeel were writing from God. He tells us, however, that they have been altered by rabbis and violent people.
This is a fact no one can deny. Why should I reject this book when my brain is my logic and my feeling see nothing wrong in it?
There are also many indications or signs in the Qur'an, which points out that the book is not of human origin. One sign of this is his linguistics and his choice of words, and to his composition (word pairs, etc., 19 also)
But the question is really
It is important to prove that the Quran is from God? It is important to know for my rescue, where the Prophet lived?
What is the message that comes to us through all the books?hurufI see this, Gott sei Dank--can you speak German ? would be great, because sometimes I lack the words to express myself precise in English ...
SalamsSalaam Mirjamnur,
We do not need to have the history and all the material details of the stories narrated in the Qur'an right. That is the advantage of the Qur'n that even though the stories are specific, they are not tied to a particular indentity or place to be meaningful.
The problem is not in the Qur'an, the problem is in the habit of converting the Qur'an in a receptacle of stories ruminated inthe Bible and adscribing them such as they are to the Qur'an. And when we do that many times we emasculate and falsify the Qur'an. Take Hawa just to start with. If the Qur'an was not subjected to that kind of colonization we wouldn't need to worry about history or archeology, but the question is that the Qur'an is colonized all right. So we have better clean its sorroundings so that it continues making unnecessary locations and specific persons and we keep to the lessons and teachings. As it is, may be some or many of us can make abstraction of locations and so on, but many, many people, as we well know, are attached to those, and they are pushing down our throats, or up some other place genealogical obsessions, chosen peoples, a real estate belief, historicl falsehoods.
No, I rather think that cleaning house on that count is not out of place, if not for us, for people we know. Apart of course that it is good to get knowledge of any kind and particularly that kind of knwoledge is very rewarding in itself.
Sure, Mirjamnur, I used to speak German fluently and I can read it with no problem, write I do not do it since a long time ago, but any thing I can help you with feel free, you are too sweet to refuse you anything.
Salaam
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Salaam Mirjamnur,
We do not need to have the history and all the material details of the stories narrated in the Qur'an right. That is the advantage of the Qur'n that even though the stories are specific, they are not tied to a particular indentity or place to be meaningful.
The problem is not in the Qur'an, the problem is in the habit of converting the Qur'an in a receptacle of stories ruminated inthe Bible and adscribing them such as they are to the Qur'an. And when we do that many times we emasculate and falsify the Qur'an. Take Hawa just to start with. If the Qur'an was not subjected to that kind of colonization we wouldn't need to worry about history or archeology, but the question is that the Qur'an is colonized all right. So we have better clean its sorroundings so that it continues making unnecessary locations and specific persons and we keep to the lessons and teachings. As it is, may be some or many of us can make abstraction of locations and so on, but many, many people, as we well know, are attached to those, and they are pushing down our throats, or up some other place genealogical obsessions, chosen peoples, a real estate belief, historicl falsehoods.
i think really i need Hawa. ... it's quite amazing how i came from Christianity and reject all and i was proud tempt to found the truth... and in fact i trumped in the same hole then before.
No, I rather think that cleaning house on that count is not out of place, if not for us, for people we know. Apart of course that it is good to get knowledge of any kind and particularly that kind of knwoledge is very rewarding in itself.
i don't know if we must search to get reward?? i don't like to trade with Allah. it seems so flat, doing good or researches for reward.. hasana.Sure, Mirjamnur, I used to speak German fluently and I can read it with no problem, write I do not do it since a long time ago, but any thing I can help you with feel free, you are too sweet to refuse you anything.
that is because i eat to much chocolate thank you very much. i'm sure i will come back to your offerSalaam
Salams
Salam huruf -
No, I rather think that cleaning house on that count is not out of place, if not for us, for people we know. Apart of course that it is good to get knowledge of any kind and particularly that kind of knwoledge is very rewarding in itself.
i don't know if we must search to get reward?? i don't like to trade with Allah. it seems so flat, doing good or researches for reward.. hasana.No, no. I do not mean it that way. I mean it like for you chocolate. You do not need to get any reward for eating chocolate, eating chocolate is a reward in itself. That is what I meant.
Notwithstanding that, every knwoledge is God mandated. We are told many times to observe, reflect, learn, What for? Anything we learn is God's creation. In history we see God's sunna and many other things. Seeking knowledge is legitimate and an act of piety. It is not idle, except that we choose idle knowledge, like gossip or things that pertain to other people's intimacy, or their sins and all that.
And learning difinitely is a reard in itself and in accordance with God's law and human fitra.
Salaam -
Salam huruf
No, no. I do not mean it that way. I mean it like for you chocolate. You do not need to get any reward for eating chocolate, eating chocolate is a reward in itself.( yay) That is what I meant.
Notwithstanding that, every knwoledge is God mandated. We are told many times to observe, reflect, learn, What for? Anything we learn is God's creation. In history we see God's sunna and many other things. Seeking knowledge is legitimate and an act of piety. It is not idle, except that we choose idle knowledge, like gossip or things that pertain to other people's intimacy, or their sins and all that.
And learning difinitely is a reard in itself and in accordance with God's law and human fitra.
Salaamhandshake and salams
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World Bulletin / News Desk
A Yemeni young man claimed to have found the oldest remaining copy of the Holy Quran but has refused to give up the manuscript, a report from the Yemeni Arabic news site Aden Gulf News said on Wednesday.
http//www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=96999
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Salam...
That is not the oldest manuscript found. The man only claims so.
The oldest copy, to date, are the Sana'a manuscripts found in 1972. A team of German scientists restored the parchments and estimated their date to be around 700 -720 A.D (less than 100 years after the supposed date of Muhammad's death).
Please look cup "Sana'a Manuscripts".
Peace...
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Salam...
That is not the oldest manuscript found. The man only claims so.
The oldest copy, to date, are the Sana'a manuscripts found in 1972. A team of German scientists restored the parchments and estimated their date to be around 700 -720 A.D (less than 100 years after the supposed date of Muhammad's death).
Please look cup "Sana'a Manuscripts".
Peace...
Salaam Pazuzu
Thank you for your reply I will google Sana'a Manuscripts
Best regards -
Salaam
I belive that many more copies like that will be discover soon among arqueological artifacts and the truth will shine step by step, i just wish to be alive to see this truths come out and people get awere of this.. only Allah knows how long truths will be covered bettween Thamud and Asir.
Salaam may Allah guide us to truth pr