Shahr/month in the light of the quran
-
Salams idol,
you said
"Does anyone think the following reminder gives us any further clues?(251) And remember We appointed forty nights for Moses...
What are these forthy nights?"
We appointed for Moses thirty nights, and completed (the period) with ten (more)...........(e.t.c)
145.And We ordained laws for him in the tablets in all matters, both commanding and explaining all things, (and said) "Take and hold these with firmness, and enjoin thy people to hold fast by the best in the precepts soon shall I show you the homes of the wicked,- (How they lie desolate)."
Isn't that when moses prepared the tablets ,i believe making and writing laws -hatched in stone couldn't be easy and requires a lot of time.
Salaams.
-
Salam MZ, all,
Salaams all,
if the translation is up to scratch then just see how allah mentions the "FULL MOON"Waalqamari itha ittasaqa
And the Moon in her fullnessSalaam.
Another verses which can bring an additional information
7116 And made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a radiant lamp.
- Moon/Full moon through stages becomes ---->2)Crescent-------->3) Full moon invisible------->4) First new moon (hilal, singular form of ahilat 2189)------>1-----2)--------3)-----4) Second new moon.
We know Alhajj is in the months (ashhurun ) which have been appointed (2197) and the new moons are a timing mechanism for the people as well as for Alhajj (2189); we witness the four restricted months while witnessing the new moons. We witness the first restricted month at its beginning and no at its end. There is not any mention of full moon in these verses.
One cyle is between two new moons in the light of 2189
....................Full moon...................... Full moon........................
New moon....................... New moon..................... New moon
.....................Cycle 1.............................Cycle 2.......................
Marie
-
Salaams marie,
i don't know if you have seen the deity of hindues ,i think shiva, where the moon is inscripted on the forhead of the deity.I think we are going too far simerlarly with the moon in the quran as it ,to me,doesn't appear in so many ayats as you people are making out.
New moon = AL-HILAAL QAMAR and its not AHAL THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS.
AHAL=family,family member,household,people belonging to a community
or locality.
AHILA = to get accustomed to, to welcome anyone.
AHALA = to marryThe one used in the ayat 2188 is a two eye H ,and therefore that it appears actualy comes from the usual word AHAL(used all over the quran) which has the two eye H
and this signifies a family,and slight changes in the word denotes people
and in the case of our ayat 2188 the word is actualy denoting/talking about the previous ayat (people in the previous ayat 2187)(Mind you this word is mistranslated in a number of other ayats as well-i think,2173,53,6145 BUT STILL NEEDS CHECKING)
2187
it is talking about property owners ,usurping properties of others by bribing officials/authorities....
2188
Allah says "They ask you about such people"(about the property owners ,who cheat,in the previose ayat,AlAhlate),"Say arrange /or has been arranged a fixed time for them and the Haj.........." (Use lanes and qd)
And to me the Haj is when they will have to swear to uphold the quranic laws,and if they don't the prophet was ordered to saught them out ,obviously for very hienous crimes they would even be killed (sura 9)when found.
Full moons description in the quran.
084.018
YUSUFALI And the Moon in her fullness
PICKTHAL And by the moon when she is at the full,
SHAKIR And the moon when it grows full,New moons description in the quran.
036.039
YUSUFALI And the Moon,- We have measured for her mansions (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.
PICKTHAL And for the moon We have appointed mansions till she return like an old shrivelled palm-leaf.
SHAKIR And (as for) the moon, We have ordained for it stages till it becomes again as an old dry palm branch.Haj hasn't any connection to the moon,sorry but keep researching DON'T IMAGINE.
Salaams.
-
105 It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.
2189 They ask thee concerning the New Moons. Say They are but signs to mark fixed PERIODS OF TIME in (the affairs of) men, and for Pilgrimage. It is no virtue if ye enter your houses from the back It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper.
696 He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark) He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time) Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.
-
Peace be upon you all,
In my area we have a full moon tommorrow night. I will try to make an effort to stay up and study and REFLECT, as the moon reflects the light of the sun.
I am thinking right now that there must have been a reason that many people began worshipping the sun and moon. Like most tools, people take them too far sometimes, but in our process to remove idols, I don't think we should totally disacrd thier purpose. Shuiab brought forth some verses which are relevant. One of them is disputed by MZ but the other two i don't think I have heard any dispute about.
I ask that if anyone else is getting the full moon soon, to do some observing and see if any information becomes more clear or not, just as a simple experiment.
-
salam mz
I think we are going too far simerlarly with the moon in the quran as it ,to me,doesn't appear in so many ayats as you people are making out.
New moon = AL-HILAAL QAMAR and its not AHAL THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT WORDS.
AHAL=family,family member,household,people belonging to a community
or locality.
AHILA = to get accustomed to, to welcome anyone.
AHALA = to marrySorry, you confuse "Ahillat/hilaal 2189" and "Ahaalin(n)/Ahloona/Ahl 2105, 2126, 2196, 2217, 3121, 425"
The two words (ahillat and Ahla) are well explained in the light of the quran.The one used in the ayat 2188 is a two eye H ,and therefore that it appears actualy comes from the usual word AHAL(used all over the quran) which has the two eye H
There is no "AHL" in 2188, we read the word "alhukkami" which means the judges
No offence intended, you need to revise seriously your courses of arabic language.
Peace
Marie -
Salaams marie,
without any type od disrespect ,when a person is in mud he is so used to it he stops noticing it - dear you have to get out of it and look at it from the outside.One thing i find confusing you here are trying to research but your minds are still closed to anything coming in from the ouitside and you still hold to your paganistic believes -and not just you but quit a few people here.
And no i havn't got it wrong if you have qd see page 36 and i think the AHAL is well explained and if thats not enough its explained even more in the lanes.
Salaams.
Thanks.
-
Peace be upon you all,
I hope someone else will jump in on this dilemma between MZ and Marie. I need to know if 2189 deals with the phases of the moon or with people.
MZ, regarding the context, for a quite a few verses after that, the "messenger" is being asked several different questions. I do not see it to be contextually wrong to be asking about the phases of the moon. But I am awaiting the solid proof of what this word means.
-
mz,
Please express your self without calling name and verify your information in the light of the quran before spreading wrong information
Allah says "They ask you about such people"(about the property owners ,who cheat,in the previose ayat,AlAhlate),"Say arrange /or has been arranged a fixed time for them and the Haj.........." (Use lanes and qd)
Peace
-
Salaams,
i will add some info for anybody who has a lanes and qd could check something enlightening.page 121 lanes
Inahum laahlo al-ahillati = verily they are sojourners ,or settlers,possessed of property.
so al-ahillati=sojourners ,settlers,property owners.
mawakeeto=time appointed for the performance.
Hee=though may prepare/arrange/he/it.Now look at what the ayat 188 is talking about
And you see shooting the moondown,in ayat 189 and using the said translation makes it clear Allah is talking about the people ,possessers of property who are bribing the judges in the ayat 188
188.
And do not eat up your property among yourselves for vanities, nor use it as bait for the judges, with intent that ye may eat up wrongfully and knowingly a little of (other) people's property.
189.
Yas-aloonaka AAani al-ahillati qul hiya mawaqeetulilnnasi waalhajji walaysa albirrubi-an ta/too albuyoota min thuhooriha walakinnaalbirra mani ittaqa wa/too albuyoota min abwabihawaittaqoo Allaha laAAallakum tuflihoona
They ask thee concerning such people. Say It has been arranged/appointed for the people with the Haj,But it is no virtue that you enter the houses from their backs but It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper.May Allah guide/you /me and everybody to his dominion.
Salaams idolfree ,all.
-
They ask thee concerning such people. Say It has been arranged/appointed for the people with the Haj,But it is no virtue that you enter the houses from their backs but It is virtue if ye fear Allah. Enter houses through the proper doors And fear Allah That ye may prosper.
"Wa Alhajj" is translated as "as well as for alhajj" or "and for Alhajj", with is a wrong translation for the letter "Wa"
You translate mawaqeet by "arrange, appoint", where is the notion of time (alwaqt) in your translation of the word "mawaaqeet?
See also mawqoot (4103)
The quran is its best commentary and dictionnary
May Allah guide us
I leave you with peace
-
Salaams,
sorry we have been to two different schools and me for one will never try to convince anybody be it a hindu or someone of another faith , as my time is not for wasting ,just assume i lost your argument as i don't have the your talents,to you be yours.
Thanks.
peace
-
Peace be upon you MZ,
That does not help me to accept your position.
You stated
al-ahillati=sojourners ,settlers,property owners.
But when you gave the translation you translated as "such people". Walk me through the process of going from "sojouners,settlers, property owners" to "such people"".
Also, you continue to imply context as the basis to take 2188-189 as the same subject, but 2189 could EASILY be the beginning of the phase of questions which continue later in this chapter. Each time we see "and they ask you about..." it is the start of a new subject, why would this "and they ask you..." be any different?
Regarding the symbolism of the woman and the moon, both with 28 day courses, we are told not to touch the women when they are menstuating. Perhaps this is being equalled to the full moon where we must abstain from something.
-
Peace MZ,
2189 is not about the moon. I agree this is holding on to paganism. We are to use the sun and the moon to calculate time, that is all.
The reply in this verse mentions ?nas? or mankind as to when it will appear or to begin. I am also thinking the buyut in the verse cannot be taken as a physical house. I compared it to ?the frailest house is the house of the spider?. Research gives no indication that a spider?s house is frail and a spider does not live in its web which is by no means frail. Science has still not been able to duplicate a substance that in portion would equal the strength and elasticity of a spider?s web. And if you substitute system, for example, Moses? people were told to make their system their focus or qiblah. I think if we understand the rest of the verse it will help with the beginning. No moon watching in deen al Islam. I am still trying to puzzle this out but as I said, no MOOOOOOOON.
shock -
Peace be upon you Grourself,
I understand that you think it is not about the moon, but what is your understanding regarding the actual word used, is it 'moon" or does it speak about "people"?
I thought I was getting close, but I seem far away now, may the God increase us in knowledge.
-
Salaams marie,
No i cannot accept it not as you are sugesting,thanks ,and i do sugest you might try and focus on what i said. - just a sugestion. And may be we might see some light.
And look into the context of the verses around abouts.Just to give you an example,how cunning/decieving,people can be
youn saywa =as well as for haj and we cant call it as anything else.
I think i do need may be to give you just a little lesson , a non arab to an arab lady.
Wa =And/Also/But/Whilst/At/Together/WHITH/ e.t.c and check the dictionary you may have dear and see how deceptive people like to be just so they may be right/mighty in front of others -not me.
ALLah hafiz to you.
-
Salaams grourself,
And yes i belive the pagans have adopted many words to mean the moon - as they where worshipping it no dought.
Thanks i will try and look into the spiders web,i remember ayman was looking into that aswell sometime back.Salaams.
-
Salaams idolfree,
can you imagine Allah creating the moon for timing the Haj - this really blows me.The moon has been around billions of years ,before men i think ,and just think how many other moons are in the solar system???And may be marie and other guys think them may be for Haj as well,(just a silly joke).In translations a person can use ,if you was prificient, a given number of words to mean exactly the same meaning to the translation - I am not as proficient in the word usage but By god i may not be proficient but can see clearly ,usualy, the picture behind the context to an extent.
Which anyways most people can also , but may be some less then others.
Salaams.