The Qur?aan Cosmological Model - Delineation Of The Current universe.
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Subject The Quran and Cosmology
Two articles up for discussion and/or debate I wrote for a local newspaper in 1991. I have expanded considerably upon them a few months later and in much greater detail since after that as well. I have discussed the subject elsewhere and have received from many posters their enlightening opinions. Hope to receive valuable comments here as well. Remember this is just an introduction to the book called The Qur'aan Cosmological Model A delineation of the origin, evolution, and final fate of the current universe. The real discussion goes into the unimaginable details of just two cosmological verses of the Qur'aan that I am making now known to the world inshaa allaah.
Article One
The Qur?aan Cosmological Model is based upon two verses of The Qur?aan. The Qur?aan is composed of about 6300 verses. These two Qur?aanic verses contain within themselves the plan or cosmological structure and design of the entire universe from before T = 0 (Time was equal to zero) until again when T = 0 (Time will again be Zero) and after.
The two Qur?aanic cosmological verses state as follows;
Qur?aan Chapter 021030
-that the entire universe i.e. the sun, moon, stars and all other extra-terrestrial phenomena as well as the earth became ?a singular mass? in higher dimensional time reversed.
-that ?the singular mass? underwent a splitting apart as observed at present time.
Qur?aan Chapter 021104
-that the universe would continue in its splitting apart phase until it had reached a maximum splitting apart or maximum expansion.
-that the universe would one day again contract and become ?a singular mass?.
-that ?the singular mass? would again undergo a splitting apart to form another universe.
The implications of the analyses of the data derived from the above two Qur?aanic cosmological verses are earthshaking.
Firstly, it took thousands of years, thousands of the most intelligent men and women who ever lived, studying many branches of knowledge to reach the same conclusion as chapter 021030 of The Qur?aan, the first mentioned cosmological verse that states that the universe was ?a singular mass? which then split apart.
Secondly, this was contained in Einstein?s General Theory of Relativity which he published in 1916, soon afterwards explained by Alexander Friedman in 1922 and later verified by Edwin Hubble in 1929, when he was commissioned to search the depth of the universe through the most advanced scientific instrument at the time, the newly built one hundred inch diameter Mount Wilson Telescope.
Humanity?s knowledge about the universe was drastically changed at Hubble?s discovery and set her thinking on a completely different path. The world thought and to this date still thinks that it was a new discovery, but within the Qur?aan the statement laid dormant for thirteen hundred years. Up to that date not even the greatest Muslim scholars of The Qur?aan fathomed its meaning. Even to this date very few are aware of it.Muslim News Newspaper June 1991
Article Two
Profoundly more thought provoking of the two Qur?aanic verses is the fathoming of verse 021104.The analysis of this verse indicates that the universe in its vertical evolution, since the time of its primordial distention has not yet reached maximum expansion. It is also further adduced via inference and allusion that the universe in its horizontal evolution has not yet reached maximum expansion limitation.
It also categorically asserts that the universe would eventually start a phase of contraction. Thus having reached the singular mass stage again would it split apart as expressed in verse 021030.
The above data derived from the Qur?aan are not only astounding but as has been said before also earthshaking. The analyses of the data answer many questions that have puzzled and are still puzzling the minds of the greatest scientists of the twentieth century.
For example, cosmologists would like to know what the deceleration parameter of the universe is. From the highest present level of knowledge is it;
q < ?
q = ?
q > ?
(q = deceleration parameter)
According to the models of Albert Einstein, Stephen Hawking and other cosmologists it is q = ?. According to Fred Hoyle and others who support the static universe concept it is q = -1.Yet others have described a universe that makes q = 0. According to another group it is q > ?. The Qur?aan Cosmological Model delineates it q > ?.
The preponderance of the evidence at present indicates that the universe is open (q < ?).The Hubble Space Telescope and other advanced scientific instruments being built will through much light upon these matters. We would probably in the next ten years know what the deceleration parameter of the universe is. Until then, we must all await the outcome of the evidence. As far as self-assertion is concerned, the Qur?aan is the only scientific document that categorically asserts the correctness of its delineation i.e. that the deceleration parameter of the universe is q > ? .Others have not bound themselves in this way as yet in whichever way.
To back up its statement the Qur?aan challenges the five billion three hundred and fifty million people on earth to investigate more than one hundred branches of knowledge. After having done so, the Qur?aan continues, ?then humanity will reach the same conclusion?. It then wants to know from humanity why they will not accept its being the Truth- that it is knowledge of ALLAAH (God), the Evolver of existence, that was revealed via the brain of an illiterate man whose lecturing and teaching thereof then revolutionized and overturned the religious, political, economical, sociological and military systems of the world within a few years about one thousand four hundred years ago.Muslim News Newspaper July 1991
To be continued inshaa allaah (If God had willed)
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Continued from post #1
That ends the two quoted articles I wrote about the Qur?aan Cosmological Model just over twenty years ago. If I had written it today I would probably have written it a little different. Nevertheless it serves its purpose here as an introduction to what the Qur?aan Cosmological Model is.
So in more detail, what is the Qur?aan Cosmological Model?
The Qur?aan Cosmological model is a mathematical and graphical presentation of the origin, evolution, and ultimate fate of the universe as it is contained in just two verses of the Qur?aan. These two verses provide us with the key words that describe the general evolution of the universe.
Khalqan = Tayyan +Ratqan +Fatqan +2Tayyan +2Ratqan +2Fatqan.
Creation = Turn in +Rotate + Fire out +2Turn in +2Rotate +2Fire out.(an example)
The initial letters of these key words produce the following algorithmic compression;Kh = T +R +F +2T +2R +2F
Arabic is a language based on what we call root letters. From these root letters the entire language is built up. They are all consonants which are formed into patterns of two?s three?s or four?s. The Arabic language has 28 consonants and a special letter we call laam ?alif. There are also only three vowels and vowel signs in the language which can be either short or long and when used are written either above or below the consonants to produce the words and in this case the root letters which are all verbs in the third person past tense. Don?t worry about all the details at this stage because they will all be wonderfully and easily explained further on and then everything will be easily understood.
It will be seen that when we run the Qur?aanic cosmological algorithmic compressionKh = T +R +F +2T +2R +2F
through the fundamental structure of the Arabic language then we witness a magnificent display of verbs, nouns, and adjectives that go back to describe each and every phase of the universe at its exact time and place in great detail. We are presented without exaggeration hundreds of beautiful drawings of the phases the universe undergoes from its cosmological origin, through its cosmological evolution, and until its eventual cosmological fate. And upon that we also see the derivation of many simple and logical abbreviations that precisely describe each and every phase of the universe. And then further beyond that we realize and see how the actions of the universe drive life into the dead and empty of meaning fundamental building blocks of the language- which are all the fundamental verbal patterns from which are derived the words of the language.
That in a nutshell is the Qur?aan Cosmological Model. We can go into great detail inshaa allaah.Below is a graphical illustration of The Qur'aan Cosmological Model.
In posts to follow I shall go into a detailed analysis of the two Qur'aan cosmological verses associated with The Qur'aan Cosmological Model.http//www.theholytablemountain.net/QCMfig001.png
To be continued inshaa allaah.
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Must be read from post #1 to follow
Before we can embark on this simple quest to see whether or not the Qur'aan contains a satisfactory and complete explanation for the existence of the universe, we need first have to present from the Qur'aan itself the relevant Qur'aanic verses for analysis.
For the sake of not wanting to be accused of not faithfully rendering the appropriate Qur'aanic verses I have decided to present the translations of mostly non-Muslim scholars to remove any such doubts. Over half of the presented translations go back prior to 1929 before it was discovered that the universe was undergoing expansion.Therefore it cannot be said that this knowledge of the 'big bang' is not contained in the Qur'aan.
Remember these are only translations and not the real Qur'aan which is in the perfect branch of the Arabic language which Arabs (overwhelmingly) in the world do not speak.The two Qur'aanic Cosmological verses go into very great detail about the entire structure of the universe from before its beginning until after its ultimate fate. The General Theory of Relativity is but a dot as compared to the details one find in these two Qur'aanic cosmological verses.I present to you here the first of the two Qur'aanic cosmological verses that when place together produces hundreds of geometric delineations of the various phases of the universe including details beyond plank time. After I have presented the second two Qur'aanic cosmological verses in posts to follow I shall begin with the detailed analysis
Translation of the first of the two Qur'aanic Cosmological Verses The Qur'aan Chapter 2130 The Prophets.
(01) - 1734 translation
Do not the unbelievers therefore know,
that the heavens and the earth were solid
and
We clave the same in sunder
And
made every living thing of water?
Will they not therefore believe?George Sale pub.1734 Christian Scholar
(02) - 1861 translation
Do not the infidels see
that the heavens and the earth were both a solid mass,
and
that we clave them asunder,
and
that by means of water we give life to everything?
Will they not then believe?Rev. John Medows Rodwell pub. 1861 Christian Scholar
(03) - 1880 translation
Do not those who misbelieve see
that the heavens and the earth were both solid,
and
we burst them asunder;
and
we made from water every living thing ?
will they then not believe?Edward Henry Palmer pub. 1880 Christian Scholar
(04) - 1917 translation
Do not those who disbelieve see
that the heavens and the earth were closed up,
so
We rent them.
And
We made from water everything living.
Will they not then believe?Maulana Muhammad Ali pub. 1917 Ahmadi Muslim Scholar
(05) - 1930 translation
Have not those who disbelieve known
that the heavens and the earth were of one piece,
then We parted them,
and
we made every living thing of water?
Will they not then believe?M. Marmaduke Pickthall pub. 1930 Christian turn Muslim Scholar
(06) - 1934 translation
Do not the Unbelievers see
that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation),
before we clove them asunder?
We made from water every living thing.
Will they not then believe?Abdullah Yusuf Ali pub. 1934 Muslim Scholar
(07) - 1955 translation
Have not the unbelievers then beheld
that the heavens and the earth were a mass all sewn up,
and
then We unstitched them
and
of water fashioned every living thing?
Will they not believe?Arthur John Arberry pub. 1955 Christian Scholar
(0 - 1956 translation
Are the disbelievers unaware
that the heavens and the earth were but one solid mass
which We tore asunder,
and
that We made every living thing from water?
Will they not have faith?Nessim Joseph Dawood pub. 1956 Jewish Scholar
To be continued inshaa allaah (If God had willed).
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Wikipedia
Eisegesis (from Greek "into" as opposed to exegesis from "to lead out" is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, and/or biases into and onto the text. The act is often used to "prove" a pre-held point of concern to the reader and to provide him or her with confirmation bias in accordance with his or her pre-held agenda.
Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis.
While exegesis draws out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discover-able meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective. -
Wikipedia
Eisegesis (from Greek "into" as opposed to exegesis from "to lead out" is the process of interpreting a text or portion of text in such a way that it introduces one's own presuppositions, agendas, and/or biases into and onto the text. The act is often used to "prove" a pre-held point of concern to the reader and to provide him or her with confirmation bias in accordance with his or her pre-held agenda.
Eisegesis is best understood when contrasted with exegesis.
While exegesis draws out the meaning from a text in accordance with the context and discover-able meaning of its author, eisegesis occurs when a reader imposes his or her interpretation into and onto the text.
As a result, exegesis tends to be objective when employed effectively while eisegesis is regarded as highly subjective.Unfortunately what you have written above does not apply to The Qur'aan Cosmological Model presented here. Not in anyway whatsoever as you will soon see when the details are unfolded like you have never seen in your life before.
I quote from what I wrote above to give you an example of the type of methodology that is coming,
For the sake of not wanting to be accused of not faithfully rendering the appropriate Qur'aanic verses I have decided to present the translations of mostly non-Muslim scholars to remove any such doubts. Over half of the presented translations go back prior to 1929 before it was discovered that the universe was undergoing expansion.Therefore it cannot be said that this knowledge of the 'big bang' is not contained in the Qur'aan.
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Unfortunately what you have written above does not apply to The Qur'aan Cosmological Model presented here. Not in anyway whatsoever as you will soon see when the details are unfolded like you have never seen in your life before.
Then you really need to try a lot harder.
The Koran does not mention any "stars and all other extra-terrestrial phenomena" anywhere.
All we get is
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? 2130If we go back 5000 years we find
When heaven had moved away from the earth,
And earth had separated from heaven,
And the name of man was fixed;The Sumerians, who lived in the arid area of what today is Northern Iraq wrote this and started the creation myth found in the Jewish and Christian Bibles as well as here.
So what you title a model is not a model and it is by no means Cosmology.
Can you please define "before T=0"? How exactly do you propose there is time "before" time started? This should be interesting.
Where does the Koran mention a singular mass? What is a singular mass? Do you even understand what mass is? The "singularity" in the current Big Bang model is not the same as a "singular mass" whatever that is.
The Universe never was in a "splitting apart" phase. Where do you get this from? Are you making this up?
Between the Big Bang and the formation of Earth we have almost 10,000 million years. 10,000,000,000. So please explain how Earth could possibly be part of the Big Bang? If heavens and Earth were joined, what exactly is heavens? Define it, please.
In addition you have 4111 Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said We come, obedient.
We know today that Earth can't speak. We also know what smoke is and that at no point in the formation of any planet or star was there smoke involved. If 2130 says that Earth was seperated from the heavens, why does 4111 say they were joined?
What is "maximum splitting apart"???
What does "Einstein?s General Theory of Relativity" have to do with the Big Bang???
What was it that was "verified by Edwin Hubble in 1929"???
What is the "vertical evolution and primordial distention" of the Universe???
What is "adduced via inference and allusion that the universe in its horizontal evolution"???
What is the "deceleration parameter of the universe"???
If you are talking about the polytropic gas model, which one? Or are you approaching this in the context of the Brans-Dicke theory? Are you aware that the decelerating stages of the expansion must exactly be compensated by the accelerated phases, as if the observed Universe coasts forever? If this is true, the present accelerating stage must be followed by a subsequent decelerating phase, which contradicts what you claim in 21104.
Why would q=1/2 when it is dependant on the graviton mass??? You can't automatically assume the Friedmann model to be fulfilled.In what sentence in the Koran does the value of "q > ?" appear?
Sorry, the way I see it, nowhere does the Koran provide any explanation for the existence of the Universe. The only methodology I see is a person taking some misunderstood Cosmology and projecting these into some sentences of the Koran, making it look pseudo scientific.
Question what will you do if any of these estimates or models you are abusing get proven wrong? Will you modify the Koran?
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Stop S,
Can you please define "before T=0"? How exactly do you propose there is time "before" time started? This should be interesting.
It is pure idiocy if one attempted to explain "time before time"
Have you contradicted yourself?
Are you now accepting from others that the supernatural can be measured?
Stephen Hawking your fellow atheist has only set out to prove that there is no God
saying " if there was no time then there could not be a god" he like you suffer
from the same delusion of giving God attributes that do not apply to him.
At least be consistant.O0
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Then you really need to try a lot harder.
The Koran does not mention any "stars and all other extra-terrestrial phenomena" anywhere.
All we get is
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? 2130If we go back 5000 years we find
When heaven had moved away from the earth,
And earth had separated from heaven,
And the name of man was fixed;The Sumerians, who lived in the arid area of what today is Northern Iraq wrote this and started the creation myth found in the Jewish and Christian Bibles as well as here.
So what you title a model is not a model and it is by no means Cosmology.
Can you please define "before T=0"? How exactly do you propose there is time "before" time started? This should be interesting.
Where does the Koran mention a singular mass? What is a singular mass? Do you even understand what mass is? The "singularity" in the current Big Bang model is not the same as a "singular mass" whatever that is.
The Universe never was in a "splitting apart" phase. Where do you get this from? Are you making this up?
Between the Big Bang and the formation of Earth we have almost 10,000 million years. 10,000,000,000. So please explain how Earth could possibly be part of the Big Bang? If heavens and Earth were joined, what exactly is heavens? Define it, please.
In addition you have 4111 Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said We come, obedient.
We know today that Earth can't speak. We also know what smoke is and that at no point in the formation of any planet or star was there smoke involved. If 2130 says that Earth was seperated from the heavens, why does 4111 say they were joined?
What is "maximum splitting apart"???
What does "Einstein?s General Theory of Relativity" have to do with the Big Bang???
What was it that was "verified by Edwin Hubble in 1929"???
What is the "vertical evolution and primordial distention" of the Universe???
What is "adduced via inference and allusion that the universe in its horizontal evolution"???
What is the "deceleration parameter of the universe"???
If you are talking about the polytropic gas model, which one? Or are you approaching this in the context of the Brans-Dicke theory? Are you aware that the decelerating stages of the expansion must exactly be compensated by the accelerated phases, as if the observed Universe coasts forever? If this is true, the present accelerating stage must be followed by a subsequent decelerating phase, which contradicts what you claim in 21104.
Why would q=1/2 when it is dependant on the graviton mass??? You can't automatically assume the Friedmann model to be fulfilled.In what sentence in the Koran does the value of "q > ?" appear?
Sorry, the way I see it, nowhere does the Koran provide any explanation for the existence of the Universe. The only methodology I see is a person taking some misunderstood Cosmology and projecting these into some sentences of the Koran, making it look pseudo scientific.
Question what will you do if any of these estimates or models you are abusing get proven wrong? Will you modify the Koran?
Thanks for your presentation that includes
1)- ( ?).
2)- a grave ignorance of the definition of an important Qur'aanic cosmological technical term.
3)- evidence from an incorrect translation of the original Arabic of the quoted Qur'aanic verse.
4)- a complete lack of understanding of the Qur'aanic presentation of history and society.
5)- assumptions and sarcastic statements.
6)- very good questions and other points which shall all be answered as we go along.
7)- one particular request from you which stands out from the rest that includes a "Define it, please" and I quote'Between the Big Bang and the formation of Earth we have almost 10,000 million years. 10,000,000,000. So please explain how Earth could possibly be part of the Big Bang? If heavens and Earth were joined, what exactly is heavens? Define it, please.
For now, I will answer this request from you because it seems an urgent request. The other questions will be addressed in the approximately one hundred posts that will follow dealing with The Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM).
A very important point not to forget.
Why does the Qur'aan state the cosmological facts as follows
"that the samaawaat(heavens) and the ?arD(earth) were both Ratq(sewn or brought together etc.) and so We Fataq(unstiched or separated etc.) them both again.?"
Because of the manner in which the Qur'aan stated the cosmological facts the following two questions spring to mind
1)- does the Qur'aan say that the ?arD is a separate and unique entity in the Universe?
2)- does the Qur'aan say that the ?arD was already in existence at the birth of the Universe?If we look at the Qur'aanic verse and even examine it a little more deeper it would appear as if the Qur'aan is actually saying that. But that perception or conclusion is not exactly true. And it is because of this inaccurate conclusion of the lack of the proper understanding of the correct meaning of the verse that all the confusion begins and then all sorts of wild statements are made by those who claim the Qur'aan to be scientific and those who assert that it is not.
And it is also because of this inaccurate conclusion that has led to the confusion which caused the Muslim scholars to deliberately falsify the translations by removing or not including the word 'both' from or in the actual translation of the original verb which is in the dual form.
In other words the Qur'aan states 'kaanataa' 'both of them were' or 'the two of them were' or 'they two were' and then the translators took it upon themselves to transform it into 'they were' or 'were'. That is why it is sacrilegious to translate the Books of ALLAAH into other languages without providing detailed explanations.Of the approximately seventy Qur'aan translations that I have examined so far I have found only two translations which have faithfully included the dual in their translations. Not to say that the other parts of their translations are not without grave errors. It will surprise many that both of these translations that translated the verse correctly with the dual included were not made by Muslim translators but maybe surprisingly by non Muslim ones. In my opinion it would not be going too far to say that a common trait in man is that he loves to exaggerate when it suites him and he loves to hang on and to invent or follow explanations to that of which he knows little or nothing of.
Let us now examine precisely what the Qur'aan is exactly saying. It is well worth mentioning that when one has sufficiently studied the Qur'aan and the other important teachings of the Prophet (S+) one will immediately know that this verse is referring to three things simultaneously. In other words three different independent matters are being discussed providing the reader with factual information for observation and consideration.
Let us see what it is!
1)- the samaawaat (full definition in a coming post)
2)- the ?arD (full definition in a coming post)
3)- the samaawaat and the ?arD
To understand this better let us make a comparison with something else 'the school and the principal were both famous'
There are three clear possibilities of understanding what was said.
1)- the school
2)- the principal
3)- the school and the principal
In the first example it is referring to the whole school; the students; the teachers; and the principal. There was none that was specifically famous; none that stood out from the rest. Just the whole school that was famous.
In the second example it is referring only to the principal; not to the school as a whole; not to the students; and not to the teachers. There was only one who was specifically famous; one that stood out from the rest. And it was just the principal who was alone famous.
In the third example it is referring to the whole school generally as well as to the principal specifically. It was not only the school as a whole that was famous but also the principal who in his own right was also famous.
Likewise as in our example the same rule applies to the mentioned Qur'aanic cosmological verse. Let us see!
In the first example it is referring to the whole of space and everything that it contains including the earth which is a body moving in that space. In other words it is referring to the whole universe; i.e. the sun, the moon, the stars,the galaxies and everything else including the earth. And it says that all these entities comprising the universe were Ratq fa (and so) Fataq (i.e. brought together as one unified entity for the purpose of breaking it apart again to form the universe).
In the second example it is referring to the earth alone and no other entity in the universe; not to the sun; not the moon; not to the stars etc. but only to the earth specifically. It says that once upon a time the earth was also Ratq fa (and so) Fataq (i.e. brought together as one unified entity (previous continents came together to form Pangaea and then again split to form the seven continents which are still spreading apart to this day).
In the third example it is referring to both what happened in the universe as well as what happened to the earth. Both underwent their own Ratq fa (and so) Fataq and both were part of a united Ratq fa (and so) Fataq (i.e. the whole of space and everything that it contains including the earth were once upon a time in a state that was brought together as one unified entity for the purpose of breaking it apart again to form the universe which is in an observed accelerated expansion to this day.
So there you have it in a nutshell. A great amount of details all applying to two different phenomena simultaneously. Now I will leave you with a quotation with what the Prophet (S+) of the Qur'aan had said one thousand four hundred years ago.
The Book of Bukhari Volume 9. Book 87. Number 141
Narrated Abu Huraira I heard Allah's Apostle saying.
"I have been sent with Jawami al-Kalim (i.e.. the shortest expression carrying the widest meanings).
and
I was made victorious with awe (caste into the hearts of the enemy)
and
while I was sleeping the keys of the treasures of the earth were brought to me and were put in my hand."
Muhammad (S+) said. Jawami'-al-Kalim means that Allah expresses in one or two statements or thereabouts the numerous matters that used to be written in the books revealed before (the coming of) the Prophet .To be continued inshaa allaah (if ALLAAH had willed).
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Thanks for your presentation that includes
1)- ( ?).
2)- a grave ignorance of the definition of an important Qur'aanic cosmological technical term.
3)- evidence from an incorrect translation of the original Arabic of the quoted Qur'aanic verse.
4)- a complete lack of understanding of the Qur'aanic presentation of history and society.
5)- assumptions and sarcastic statements.
6)- very good questions and other points which shall all be answered as we go along.
7)- one particular request from you which stands out from the rest that includes a "Define it, please" and I quote'I have no idea what these numbers refer to. You make claims and I show that they are false claims. I show how you are projecting something into some vague words someone found in the Koran. You provide some gibberish, which is simply cobbled together using copy/paste without any knowledge and then presented as though there was some scientific fact here.
Anyone writing this for as newspaper thoroughly embarrassed himself and all Muslims. It is the typical pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo laymen use when they want to appear knowledgeable. But this is just a false pretence.
The two Qur'aanic Cosmological verses go into very great detail about the entire structure of the universe from before its beginning until after its ultimate fate.
Cosmological verses? Great detail? Well, obfuscation starts here, in the third sentence before its beginning. What does "before its beginning" mean? What is "before its beginning"? Can there be "before its beginning"? When is "before its beginning"?
We also get total jibber-jabber such as "in higher dimensional time reversed"
Who dreams these things up?
This is what we are talking about
2130
Do not those who misbelieve see that the heavens and the earth were both solid, and we burst them asunder; and we made from water every living thing ? will they then not believe?21104
The Day when We will fold the heaven like the folding of a sheet for the records. As We began the first creation, We will repeat it. a promise binding upon Us. Indeed, We will do it.Your claim is
The two Qur'aanic Cosmological verses go into very great detail about the entire structure of the universe from before its beginning until after its ultimate fate.Cosmological? In great detail?
Those who misbelieve = religious, spiritual
The heavens = religious, spiritual
Earth = cosmological (with a lot of goodwill)
Both solid = physics
Burst them asunder = nonsensical
Made from water = chemistry
Every living thing = biologyThe entire sentence has a single word (one word) which could, if I feel generous, be considered to have a cosmological background Earth. Where is the detail? Structure? The Universe? Using one word?
Come on!
cosmological structure and design of the entire universe from before T = 0 until again when T = 0 and after.
Look at these useless words. What is a cosmological structure and can it be described in a single word? In great detail? Where is the entire Universe mentioned? We have one word Earth. The rest is about some religious meanings, where heaven or heavens is not even defined. Where do the two sentences from the Koran mention any cosmological details?
What exactly is T=0? What is before T=0? You can't have "before time" if time started there and then.
For now, I will answer this request from you because it seems an urgent request. The other questions will be addressed in the approximately one hundred posts that will follow dealing with The Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM).
A very important point not to forget.
I asked what the definition of "heavens" is.
You don't address what I ask, but provide some copy/paste reply of something else. YOU are making a claim. YOU are claiming that there are sentences in the Koran which are scientifically correct. Now YOU need to prove this. Telling me that we need to re-translate some vague words is anything but scientific. Science uses defined, precise and accurate words. You are providing vague words which you bend in a way that you would like to see. Please stop that!
That is why it is sacrilegious to translate the Books of ALLAAH into other languages without providing detailed explanations.
Can you show me where the Koran says this?
There is a book by a god called the Koran. You say there are BOOKS, plural. Can you name the other ones?Of the approximately seventy Qur'aan translations that I have examined so far I have found only two translations which have faithfully included the dual in their translations. Not to say that the other parts of their translations are not without grave errors.
So there you have it in a nutshell. A great amount of details all applying to two different phenomena simultaneously. Now I will leave you with a quotation with what the Prophet (S+) of the Qur'aan had said one thousand four hundred years ago.
You spend huge amounts of internet space to explain nonsense. If the word would mean "both", would that make the sentences scientifically correct or accurate? No. Would your modification of the meaning of the Koran make the contents correct? No.
The Book of Bukhari Volume 9. Book 87. Number 141
How do you think some person making up some story make the 2 sentences from the Koran you mention, the cosmology model as found in the Koran and accepted by science?
You make the most extraordinary and preposterous claims, so why don't you show just one, a single one, to provide an accurate high-level description, before going into claims like "the Qur?aan is the only scientific document that categorically asserts the correctness of its delineation i.e. that the deceleration parameter of the universe is q > ? ."I do not expect you to explain why you claim the Koran is a scientific document, so start slow and show me one, just one fact.
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Continued from the first post.
Let us now present the first of the two Qur?aan Cosmological Model (QCM) verses from the 'real' Qur'aan; meaning the one in Arabic as it has been presented by the Prophet (S+). Let us begin the exposition.
Here is the Arabic text of the first Qur?aan Cosmological Model verse with transliteration.Don't be dismayed if you cannot read the Arabic because it is the transliteration which we will be using here for our exposition.
Qur?aan 02130
transliteration
?a-wa-lam yara lladhiyna kafaruw
?anna as-samaawaati wa-l-?arDa kaanataa Ratqan
fa-Fataq-naa humaa
wa-ja?al-naa min al-maa?i kulla shay?in hayyin
?a-fa-laa yu?minuwna
Here I present the most accurate translation of the verse. Though by no means perfect. I have not translated the key words because they are technical terms in their own right and cannot be translated without grave loss of the original. I will select and explain each of them adequately with proofs from the Qur'aan itself as well as the authoritative Arabic dictionaries.
translation
Have those who have disbelieved now not seen-
that the samaawaat and the ?arD
(1)- were both Ratq
(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.
And We made from water every living thing.
Will they now not believe?
This verse contains an encyclopedia of information of which I will touch upon only the cosmological aspects. To do that I will simply extract the parts of the verse that I have already made bold.
that the samaawaat and the ?arD
(1)- were both Ratq
(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.
What is the verse actually saying. When we read it at face value we see that it speaks about how ALLAAH (God) brought about the creation of the universe we happen to find ourselves living in. This earth upon which we live, the sun and the moon and the stars, and everything else that the universe contains.
Let us go over it again exactly as it is written.ALLAAH says, "
that the samaawaat and the ?arD
(1)- were both Ratq
(2)- and so We Fataq them both again."
I would like you to repeat the verse at least three times so that you can become familiar with those four untranslated technical terms of which I have already said cannot be translated without grave lost of the original. The problem is that when scholars think that they can translate these technical terms of the Qur'aan into English or for that matter into any other language and they go ahead and then begin to do so they effectively make the Qur'aan completely dysfunctional. Then people who have no understanding of what the original is saying begin to read and study it and start making all kinds of proclamations as to what the Qur'aan is really saying. So they have misled themselves and all others who follow them and that goes for all those who repeat their behavior.
To be continued ( the explanation of the four Qur'aanic Cosmological Model technical terms of the Verse) inshaa allaah.
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Post 5
The four technical terms are-
- the samaawaat
- the ?arD
- Ratq
- Fataq
The definite article ?al? ?the? I have translated as 'the samaawaat' and not 'al-samaawaat'; and 'the ?arD' and not 'al-?arD'. You would have noticed that I have written ?arD' with a capital D instead of with a small d. The reason for this is that there are two d?s in the Arabic language; one pronounced at the tip of the tongue like the ?d? in the English word ?did? and the other pronounced with the tongue against the roof of the mouth and similar to the ?D? in the English word ?Dark? but even more emphatic. It is said that the Arabic language is the only language which contains this letter or sound. In fact almost all Muslims mispronounce this emphatic ?D? and thus destroy the Qur?aan with their tongues without realizing it because every letter of the Qur?aan is a multi-dimensional space-time configuration. The Jews have done the same thing with the letters of the Torah which are also all multi-dimensional space-time configurations. The Christians have no part in this science because they have completely discarded the alphabet of the Bible and opted to translate and read the Holy Book in other alphabets and languages. For Example the letter ?M? called ?MiyM? and ?Mem? in Hebrew are the symbols for the mathematical equation of a circle x^2 + y^2 = r^2. This is what is referred to as the knowledge contained in all the Divine Books. If this knowledge is lost then virtually everything becomes lost. The Divine Books would then become interpretations of infinite duration- like it is now.
Let us look at the technical term samaawaat
samaawaat is the plural of the Arabic word samaa?. If we were to open an Arabic dictionary like that of Edward William Lane which was published in 1865 and regarded as one of the greatest dictionaries of all time we will find the following definitions or explanations.As a verb
- he or it was, or became, high, lofty, raised, upraised, uplifted, upreared, exalted, or elevated.
- he or it rose, or rose high.
-he or it rose higher or above.
As a noun
-the higher, or upper, or highest, or uppermost, part of anything.
-the sky, or heavens.Let us look at the technical term?arD.
As a verb- he or it became lowly or submissive.
- he or it became or rendered heavy, slow, sluggish, inclining, or propending, to the ground.
-it collected moisture, and became luxuriant with herbage
-it became soft to tread upon, pleasant to sit upon, productive, and good in its herbage or vegetation.
-the ulcer, or sore, became blistered, and wide, and corrupt, and dissundered.
As a noun
With the definite article ?the?- the earth as opposed to heaven.
-the ground, as meaning the surface of the earth, on which we tread and sit and lie.
-the floor
Without the definite article ?the?
- a land, or a country.
- a piece of land or ground.
- anything that is low.
Let us look at the technical term - Ratq.
From the verb Rataqa- he closed up.
- he sewed up, or together.
Ratq
- closed up.
- sewn up.
Let us look at the technical term - Fataq.
It is the verb - Fataqa- he slit it, rent it, rent it asunder or open, or divided it lengthwise.
- he disjoined it, or disunited it
- he undid the sewing of it, unsewed it, or unstitched it
(- became swollen, or inflated, in the flanks. - appeared after concealment.)
As the noun -Fatq
- a rent, slit, or the like.
- an open, and a spacious, place.
There we have the meanings of the four technical terms; as verbs as well as nouns.
We are now getting close to the formation of the Qur?aan Cosmological Model. After that the QCM will start to come alive.
Have again another good look at the Qur?aan Cosmological Model below. Can you begin to recognize where we are in the Model.http//www.theholytablemountain.net/QCMfig001.png
Continued in posts to follow inshaa allaah (if ALLAAH - ELOHIYM - GOD had willed).
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Are you just going on with posting page by page after page for the next 2 years, promising explanations later and later while piling up the claims?
Your claims are laughable and wrong. They are not scientific. They are spiritual mumbo-jumbo. You are repeating and repeating yourself without any factual base.
Why can't you make one (1) claim, explain it and show that you know what you are doing? You have no clue what cosmology is and just want to mislead people with your nonsensical claims.
I have asked you some factual questions. It seems you are not only clueless in cosmogony but also unable to answer really simple, factual questions.
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Are you just going on with posting page by page after page for the next 2 years, promising explanations later and later while piling up the claims?
Your claims are laughable and wrong. They are not scientific. They are spiritual mumbo-jumbo. You are repeating and repeating yourself without any factual base.
Why can't you make one (1) claim, explain it and show that you know what you are doing? You have no clue what cosmology is and just want to mislead people with your nonsensical claims.
I have asked you some factual questions. It seems you are not only clueless in cosmogony but also unable to answer really simple, factual questions.
Hi
I am reading this post with interest and often posts like this attract me to this forum. I would say I have no clue about cosmology as you claim know about it, so before the pile get too big to handle why not you share counter arguments with us which are making you laugh?Why can't you make one (1) claim, explain it and show that you know what you are doing? You have no clue what cosmology is and just want to mislead people with your nonsensical claims.
Disregarding something by calling it nonsensical is not a valid claim you need to explain what makes it nonsensical, stop him from misleading us give us good solid counter claims.
I have asked you some factual questions. It seems you are not only clueless in cosmogony but also unable to answer really simple, factual questions.
Do you understand what is actully meant by factual ??? calling your questions factual does not make it factual put the facts righ there and you would not need to ask factual questions.
peace -
Post 6
Again let us look at the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) verse that I have already presented and which we are now going to analyze via the meaning and definitions of its four technical terms.
Be reminded that these four Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms that have already been explained earlier are all found in the Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane. This Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane is the greatest, on every level, Arabic - English dictionary ever produced in the English language and virtually contains the entire Classical Arabic Language upon which the Qur'aan is based. Edward William Lane was called, in his lifetime, the master of the Arabic Language. It is a work of breathless achievement- one of the greatest of heights a scholar could attain to maximum precise detail. I present to you the publishers note for further elaboration.
Edward William Lane's ARABIC - ENGLISH LEXICON Book1 contains all the classical words, their derivatives, and their usages. It appears in eight separate volumes and took the author more than thirty years to compile.
Book II, which Dr. Lane contemplated and which was to contain rare words and explanations, was incomplete at the time of his death in 1876 and therefore never appeared.
In describing Lane?s Lexicon, Dr. G. P. Badger wrote, ?This marvelous work in its fullness and richness, its deep research correctness and simplicity of arrangement far transcends the Lexicon of any language ever presented to the world.?
And as Dr. Lane sets it out on the face page,
?Containing all the classical words and significations commonly known to the learned among the Arabs.?For this reason we shall use this great lexicon which was mostly completed by 1876 ( and 53 years before the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929 that mightily changed our perception of the universe) for the explanation of the Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms. If we do this we can never be accused of 'wangling' the words of the Qur'aan to fit up with what scientists have discovered only later. And those Arabic words presented by Lane are non other than the very Arabic words he had selected from the great Arabic dictionaries that go back up to over a thousand years earlier and that ultimately get traced back to the tongue of the Messenger of ALLAAH (S+) to whom the Qur'aan was revealed.
In posts to follow we shall begin to analyze the QCM technical terms we have mentioned; present their geometrical mathematical delineations; extrapolate there mathematical equations and so forth.Observe and reflect over everything carefully!
To be continued inshaa allaah (if ALLAAH - ELOHIYM - GOD had willed).
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Post 7
We are now coming very close to seeing the visual presentation of the Qur'aan Cosmological Model extrapolated from the two Qur'aan Cosmological Model verses. Therefore let us now again here present the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model verse and then analyze it but this time via the meaning and definitions of its four technical terms as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary as compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929.
First QCM Verse 021030
Have those who have disbelieved now not seen-
that the samaawaat and the ?arD
(1)- were both Ratq
(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.
And We made from water every living thing.
Will they now not believe?
The Qur'aan is a divine book that addresses humanity throughout time.Therefore certain passages are not always clear to those who do not understand this important principal. The first QCM verse is one of those time event verses that will only become fully understood and appreciated after the subject of its statement has become known. This is not because the Qur'aan is not clear on the matter but because the nature of man is that he will not accept that which he has physically seen or proven - one of the great qualities of man if one removes any type of belief from his personality. Another quality of man is that he likes to conform with 'what is' and dislikes to be disturbed from his perceived comfort zones even if they might turn out to be wrong - one of the bad qualities of man.
If we look at the first QCM verse we see that it is a definite statement made about something and framed into a question that demands reflection and an answer. A reflection and an answer that could never have made sense to anyone prior to 1929 when it was discovered that the universe was expanding and by implication had to originate from some point back in time. Therefore it is a verse that most appropriately applies to our generation and our generation only. What a great honour and a concern that must be. For if it is like that then we must ask why are we being addressed? What is the purpose of it all?
Let us look at and ponder over the question! We observe that ALLAAH (God) the Originator of the Heavens and the Earth (i.e. the Universe) addresses a group of people whom He calls 'those who have disbelieved'. He asks them via the believers the following question, " Have you now not seen?" And what is it that ALLAAH asks them what they have now not seen? He says,
that the samaawaat and the ?arD
(1)- were both Ratq
(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.
And what is the samaawaat and what is the?arD that He describe were both once upon a time Ratq and that He then did Fataq them both again.
In the next post we shall analyze the two important Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical terms 'samaawaat' and '?arD' and as we have already said but this time via the meaning and definitions as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929.
We will also have a look at who the exact people are whom are being addressed in the Qur'aan.To be continued inshaa allaah (If ALLAAH - ELOHIYM - GOD had willed).
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Hi
I am reading this post with interest and often posts like this attract me to this forum. I would say I have no clue about cosmology as you claim know about it, so before the pile get too big to handle why not you share counter arguments with us which are making you laugh? Disregarding something by calling it nonsensical is not a valid claim you need to explain what makes it nonsensical, stop him from misleading us give us good solid counter claims.Do you understand what is actully meant by factual ??? calling your questions factual does not make it factual put the facts righ there and you would not need to ask factual questions.
peaceSo what you are saying is that if someone posts pseudo-scientific and unverifiable nonsense this attracts you?
Every claim I make I have substantiated. If you follow this thread, could you show me where I forget to do so?
What is funny is that someone who has no clue what they are talking about can make any claim and someone who challenges this and shows the errors is challenged. What an upside-down concept.
But just to save you the effort of actually checking something and straining your brain, I will simply paste a very easy to understand example for a false claim, which requires no scientific knowledge.
If you find a mistake in this, please advise me of this mistake.
The claim is
The two Qur'aanic Cosmological verses go into very great detail about the entire structure of the universe from before its beginning until after its ultimate fate.I now take the first of these sentences and check the contents for the above claim using not my, but the provided translation/interpretation.
Those who misbelieve = religious, spiritual
The heavens = religious, spiritual
Earth = cosmological (with a lot of goodwill)
Both solid = physics
Burst them asunder = nonsensical
Made from water = chemistry
Every living thing = biologyThe entire sentence has a single word (one word) which could, if I feel generous, be considered to have a cosmological background Earth. Where is the detail? Structure? The Universe? Using one word?
Does this match the claim? No! Not in any way. Does it mention the Universe or anything related to astronomy? No, so what are you complaining about?
The claim is also that this scientific claim is made for discussion here, on a religious forum.Could you please show me, just to show me how factual and honest you are, where I make the claim what you call "as you claim know about it"
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First QCM Verse 021030
Have those who have disbelieved now not seen-
that the samaawaat and the ?arD(1)- were both Ratq
(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.
And We made from water every living thing.
Will they now not believe?
What makes "Heavens" and "Earth" technical terms? By whose definition?
Let me guess after repeating this a few times you will next propose that samaa? is the singular of samaawaat and you will pretend to analyse this and come up with a really fantastic idea and model....
Oh come on! Please stop this pseudo-scientific rambling. The Universe is not a container. Space is not equal to heavens and "samaawaat" is not a technical term. -
Post 8
Defining samaa? (singular of samaawaat) the first important Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical term.
It is sometimes important just to repeat certain keywords or phrases in order to become familiar with the concepts involved. There must be understanding and not just casual reading. It is always good for you to revise or go over the previous posts. You will be amazed how much you have missed before and how much you will gain from a second and a third and so forth repeated reading.
Let us now analyze the two important Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical terms 'samaawaat' and '?arD' as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929.
What is the samaawaat?
As has been said before ?samaawaat? is the plural of the Arabic word ?samaa?? and is derived from the Arabic root verb meaning-- he or it was, or became, high, lofty, raised, upraised, uplifted, upreared, exalted, or elevated.
- he or it rose, or rose high.
-he or it rose higher or above.
As a noun it has the following meanings-
-the higher, or upper, or highest, or uppermost, part of anything.
-the sky, or heavens.Let us analyze the meaning of the word ?samaa?? which is the singular of 'samaawaat'.
When we study the Qur'aan we will see that the word ?samaa?? and its plural 'samaawaat' occurs about about 310 times in the Qur'aan. When these verses are studied it will be seen that the word ?samaa?? is not an object but refers to the open space that surrounds the objects of the universe or in other words it is the depiction of the vast space in which all the elements of the universe find itself including the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars. It refers to that part of the Universe in which motion and 'clumpiness' take place. Here is a verse of the Qur'aan that gives us that depiction-
The Qur'aan 2218
"...that unto ALLAAH bow down whoever is in the 'samaawaat... and the Sun, and the Moon, and the Stars..."The Qur'aan also gives other descriptions for various types of samaa' such as for example that part immediately above the earth where the birds fly.
The Qur'aan 1679
"... the birds that are subjected to the jaww (the air or atmosphere) of the samaa?."The Qur'aan 4111
Another verse which we shall not go into here says that 'The samaa' was in a certain 'smoke' state and ALLAAH caused it to undergo a state of obedience and then He completed it as seven samaawaat (plural of samaa?). We are told that the seven samaawaat are like enormous spheres one beyond the other and that our position is in the lowest of the samaawaat and is callad the samaa? of the dunyaa (world or lower world).The Qur'aan contrasts samaa? with ?arD which are two opposing but complementary states of the universe Space verses Matter; One inherently expansive and the other inherently contractive.
In the next post I shall define the Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical term '?arD' as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929. After that we shall begin with the construction of the Qur'aan cosmological model.
Below is a graphical illustration for the Qur'aan Cosmological Model Technical Term samaa' (singular of samaawaat).
http//www.theholytablemountain.net/QCMdefs.png
Continued in posts to follow inshaa allaah (If ALLAAH - ELOHIYM - God had willed).
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.
Those who misbelieve = religious, spiritual
The heavens = religious, spiritual
Earth = cosmological (with a lot of goodwill)
Both solid = physics
Burst them asunder = nonsensical
Made from water = chemistry
Every living thing = biologyThe entire sentence has a single word (one word) which could, if I feel generous, be considered to have a cosmological background Earth. Where is the detail? Structure? The Universe? Using one word?
Does this match the claim? No! Not in any way. Does it mention the Universe or anything related to astronomy? No, so what are you complaining about?
The claim is also that this scientific claim is made for discussion here, on a religious forum.Could you please show me, just to show me how factual and honest you are, where I make the claim what you call "as you claim know about it"
You know what; its people like you who, IMO gave birth to hadiths. I'll give you an example the Qur'an clearly states that one is supposed to wash hands and face etc. before salah but someone like you must have said how can you say face? That means eyes and nose and hands, include fingers and the space between them and so on and as a result we have detailed hadiths dealing with the details of how to wash face and mouth and nose and so on and so forth.
Please say some thing valid/cosmology or just keep out of the discussion.
hmm