The Qur?aan Cosmological Model - Delineation Of The Current universe.
-
Yes, because they can't stop laughing.
You have not answered a single of my factual questions. Please use your "model" and explain the first second of our Universe, describing the process. This should be just 4 or 5 sentences and a renowned and famous scholar of cosmology should be able to do this in a few seconds.
Will you apply for the Nobel Prize this year? You deserve it, if you can show that the Koran contains the actual cosmological structures and the knowledge we are missing.
anSwering StopS verSeS Stop anSwering
I tell you what I will do. I will give you The Qur'aan Cosmological Model Infinite Time Duration Equation just before the first second of our Universe where Einsteins General Theory of Relativity breaks down. See if you can understand it. Not 4 or five sentences but a few letters that can be written in seconds. In your accepted cosmology, how would you define this state?
0
l
l
l
/http//theholytablemountain.net/QCMR2=T3R1.png
-
It is good that StopS or whoever can verily certify about things like these.
Or may be, I should attempt setting up business as the scientist or the profetess that was there at the time and has the whole revelation story.
So, StopS, were you really there then?
Salaam
-
It is good that StopS or whoever can verily certify about things like these.
Or may be, I should attempt setting up business as the scientist or the profetess that was there at the time and has the whole revelation story.
So, StopS, were you really there then?
Salaam
Sorry, I have no idea what you are saying or asking. What is a profetess? What revelation story? Was I really there where? Then? When? What are you talking about?
-
Stop S,
Can you please define "before T=0"? How exactly do you propose there is time "before" time started? This should be interesting.
It is pure idiocy if one attempted to explain "time before time"
Have you contradicted yourself?
Are you now accepting from others that the supernatural can be measured?
Stephen Hawking your fellow atheist has only set out to prove that there is no God
saying " if there was no time then there could not be a god" he like you suffer
from the same delusion of giving God attributes that do not apply to him.
At least be consistant.O0
I'll give it a go.
It was 1200 before it was 1200 before it was 1200. This happens every day.
That is because time goes in cycles.
Please, try not to hurt yourself by making things more complicated than necessary.
Just as it is useful for us to draw the distinction of a single day and having a T=0 for each day (1200 midnight) it is also equally useful on a cosmic scale for there to be such distinctions made so that one cycle can be distinctly recognized from another cycle.
-
I'll give it a go.
It was 1200 before it was 1200 before it was 1200. This happens every day.
That is because time goes in cycles.
Please, try not to hurt yourself by making things more complicated than necessary.
Just as it is useful for us to draw the distinction of a single day and having a T=0 for each day (1200 midnight) it is also equally useful on a cosmic scale for there to be such distinctions made so that one cycle can be distinctly recognized from another cycle.
You need to have another look at cosmogony. What is today's minute before 000?
-
You need to have another look at cosmogony. What is today's minute before 000?
Frankly, I'm not concerned with cosmogony. It's personally irrelevant to me. That isn't to say I am not curious about it and that I'll dabble here and there in it... My point stands that I think you are injecting complexity into this that isn't intended. The minute before the first minute of today was the last minute of yesterday. That's simple and that's all I think T=0 means. It is in relation to a single cycle.
My impression here is I think you are just trying to torture everything al-amiyr claims in an attempt to make it irrelevant. Your posture reflects that of a person who is in some way threatened. I recommend you take a chill pill and give him the space to draw his own specific distinctions. Who says that the "big bang" only ever happens once and only once? Rather than just claim he is wrong, how about you first get confirmation on what he means?
You say a lot about how al-amiyr is jumping to false conclusions and making a fool of himself but what is abundantly clear to me is whether he is right or wrong in what he is presenting, you are simply failing to understand him in the way he is trying to painstakingly unfold things. Therefore, given that you actually are not really following him all that well, it is foolish and presumptuous of you to judge something false when you have yet to demonstrate that you really get what he is trying to convey.
I admit I struggle a bit to follow it too, but before I start criticizing him as you seem willing to do I am going to offer someone a basic level of due respect and at least confirm that I get what they are trying to say first. I have some paradigm breaking views on interpretation of holy writ and I am well acquainted with trying to explain things to people that are difficult for them to follow. Some people are more interested in trashing my views than understanding them before they judge them. They think they are offering substantive arguments that should convince me that I am crazy, but unless and until I can see they actually understand me, their accusations are completely worthless. If you really care and you really want to promote and advocate a proper understanding of things, I highly recommend you change your posture to first get confirmation of mutual understanding and then your criticisms will have some traction.
-
Frankly, I'm not concerned with cosmogony. It's personally irrelevant to me.
Hahaha, that's funny! Irrelevant? That is the reason you exist. No Universe, no you.
That isn't to say I am not curious about it and that I'll dabble here and there in it... My point stands that I think you are injecting complexity into this that isn't intended.
You "dabble"? The most complex issue we have and you dabble? And because you dabble you know the intentions behind the Universe?!
The minute before the first minute of today was the last minute of yesterday. That's simple and that's all I think T=0 means. It is in relation to a single cycle.
You see, this is problem if you dabble and not learn to do things properly. You dabble. Look again at what you wrote! Now tell me how my question regarding the first minute of TODAY, not YESTERDAY, was answered. You make stuff up, you invent things not there and create explanations which don't exist. How can you have a minute today that does not belong to today, but belongs to yesterday?
I was quite specific in my question, knowing full well that there is no answer, just as t=0 does not exist, just like absolute 0K temperature does not exist.My impression here is I think you are just trying to torture everything al-amiyr claims in an attempt to make it irrelevant. Your posture reflects that of a person who is in some way threatened. I recommend you take a chill pill and give him the space to draw his own specific distinctions. Who says that the "big bang" only ever happens once and only once? Rather than just claim he is wrong, how about you first get confirmation on what he means?
Correct, it is irrelevant. Because he has no clue what he's talking about when it comes to cosmology. He does not understand logics or conceptual and abstract thinking. Yet he blinds people with huge but nonsensical diagrams. I found a whole list of factual, real errors in just his first post. If you want to be deceived and lied to, fine. I don't. So I show up the mistakes.
You say a lot about how al-amiyr is jumping to false conclusions and making a fool of himself but what is abundantly clear to me is whether he is right or wrong in what he is presenting, you are simply failing to understand him in the way he is trying to painstakingly unfold things. Therefore, given that you actually are not really following him all that well, it is foolish and presumptuous of you to judge something false when you have yet to demonstrate that you really get what he is trying to convey.
Look, you maybe mean well. Look at all the nonsense he puts out, not just here, but all over the internet. He's putting his nonsense on a huge number of sites until he finds people gullible enough to think he is "unfolding" things. No, he is a snake-oil salesman. A fraud, a fake, a misleading and false person. I have shown this, I have proven this, I have told him this. If you want to believe something he says is valuable, fine, but please don't question my integrity or my honesty or my intellectual capacity, ok?
I admit I struggle a bit to follow it too, but before I start criticizing him as you seem willing to do I am going to offer someone a basic level of due respect and at least confirm that I get what they are trying to say first. I have some paradigm breaking views on interpretation of holy writ and I am well acquainted with trying to explain things to people that are difficult for them to follow. Some people are more interested in trashing my views than understanding them before they judge them. They think they are offering substantive arguments that should convince me that I am crazy, but unless and until I can see they actually understand me, their accusations are completely worthless. If you really care and you really want to promote and advocate a proper understanding of things, I highly recommend you change your posture to first get confirmation of mutual understanding and then your criticisms will have some traction.
There are enough people out there fooling others, telling them that cars can run on water. There are enough fools out there who believe them. Please don't be one of them.
Just ask him one single question what is the process during the first second as described in the Koran. He will be unable to explain how protons manage to miss particles and not destroy the forming particles. The Koran is not a scientific textbook, so why try and make it look as though it is? Why does he claim the Koran describes the processes and formation of the Universe in great detail and describes an entire model of the Universe and its formation? It is simply not true.
-
Salaam,
Just a question.
If you find this thread completely nonsensical, why even bother about it?
I must admit I barely understood a thing in al-amiyr 's posts, but I still treat him with respect. I have to confess I am too lazy to go through all text and deem for myself whether it is true or not, but even without I am not certain that mr Al-amiyr is right about what he's talking about.
I do not bother seeking to criticize him for something which I do not comprehend, and even if I did it is irrelevant to me, the guided ones will not be mislead.
Despite I do not understand I admire the work he has put into all this, so many hours spent for something must mean he truly believes in it and you have to respect someone for his belief, right?
If it now, would be spreading Satan's work without perceiving, so the intelligent will be saved by God through Wisdom.
Sorry, al-amiyr, I just took it as an example, I am not qualified to judge your works. I might try to understand at some point.
I think I understood the cosmos is linked to certain Arabic letters, by some secret formula. And I grasped just about that.
God bless you and please stop engaging in useless arguments
-
I'll give it a go.
It was 1200 before it was 1200 before it was 1200. This happens every day.
That is because time goes in cycles.
Just as it is useful for us to draw the distinction of a single day and having a T=0 for each day (1200 midnight) it is also equally useful on a cosmic scale for there to be such distinctions made so that one cycle can be distinctly recognized from another cycle.Peace kylixguru,
While I can appreciate your attempt to make sense of that which cannot be proven,
I must say that the clock setter (man) has no knowledge except unproven guesses
about time before the big bang. Your theory is as good as the rest but nobody knows
for sure except God.God created all things, including time, time like you are created, very easy to understand
don't you agree?Such is GOD your Lord, there is no god except He, the Creator of all things.
You shall worship Him alone. He is in control of all things.Glory be to your Lord, the great Lord; far above their claims.
THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
peace
-
Salaam,
Just a question.
If you find this thread completely nonsensical, why even bother about it?
I must admit I barely understood a thing in al-amiyr 's posts, but I still treat him with respect. I have to confess I am too lazy to go through all text and deem for myself whether it is true or not, but even without I am not certain that mr Al-amiyr is right about what he's talking about.
I do not bother seeking to criticize him for something which I do not comprehend, and even if I did it is irrelevant to me, the guided ones will not be mislead.
Despite I do not understand I admire the work he has put into all this, so many hours spent for something must mean he truly believes in it and you have to respect someone for his belief, right?
If it now, would be spreading Satan's work without perceiving, so the intelligent will be saved by God through Wisdom.
Sorry, al-amiyr, I just took it as an example, I am not qualified to judge your works. I might try to understand at some point.
I think I understood the cosmos is linked to certain Arabic letters, by some secret formula. And I grasped just about that.
God bless you and please stop engaging in useless arguments
I have no idea whom you are addressing, so I'll just pretend it is for me.
The thing is that I like human beings. I also like the truth.
If I see that a person next to me is being lied to and I see that someone is being deceived I step in and call the person who is knowingly deceiving others out. It is my empathy and compassion which does not allow me to sit still and have perfectly good people, who don't have the appropriate training in a topic, being conned.
Respect needs to be earned. Someone who spends a lot of time on nonsense and deceiving others does not earn any respect, but contempt. Just look at the very first post, where he writes about an astronomer. I found an entire list of mistakes, factual errors, which clearly show he has no idea what cosmology is and that he is just making stuff up. Should I rather keep quiet?
Do I warn oncoming traffic of a speed trap? Yes, I do. I don't even expect a thank you - but people like you who criticise others for helping and pointing out the truth is a novel experience for me.
-
Oooops, I made a mistake with the formatting and it does not allow me to fix it, so here's the same with corrected quotes...
Frankly, I'm not concerned with cosmogony. It's personally irrelevant to me.
Hahaha, that's funny! Irrelevant? That is the reason you exist. No Universe, no you.
That isn't to say I am not curious about it and that I'll dabble here and there in it... My point stands that I think you are injecting complexity into this that isn't intended.
You "dabble"? The most complex issue we have and you dabble? And because you dabble you know the intentions behind the Universe?!
The minute before the first minute of today was the last minute of yesterday. That's simple and that's all I think T=0 means. It is in relation to a single cycle.
You see, this is problem if you dabble and not learn to do things properly. You dabble. Look again at what you wrote! Now tell me how my question regarding the first minute of TODAY, not YESTERDAY, was answered. You make stuff up, you invent things not there and create explanations which don't exist. How can you have a minute today that does not belong to today, but belongs to yesterday?
I was quite specific in my question, knowing full well that there is no answer, just as t=0 does not exist, just like absolute 0K temperature does not exist.My impression here is I think you are just trying to torture everything al-amiyr claims in an attempt to make it irrelevant. Your posture reflects that of a person who is in some way threatened. I recommend you take a chill pill and give him the space to draw his own specific distinctions. Who says that the "big bang" only ever happens once and only once? Rather than just claim he is wrong, how about you first get confirmation on what he means?
Correct, it is irrelevant. Because he has no clue what he's talking about when it comes to cosmology. He does not understand logics or conceptual and abstract thinking. Yet he blinds people with huge but nonsensical diagrams. I found a whole list of factual, real errors in just his first post. If you want to be deceived and lied to, fine. I don't. So I show up the mistakes.
You say a lot about how al-amiyr is jumping to false conclusions and making a fool of himself but what is abundantly clear to me is whether he is right or wrong in what he is presenting, you are simply failing to understand him in the way he is trying to painstakingly unfold things. Therefore, given that you actually are not really following him all that well, it is foolish and presumptuous of you to judge something false when you have yet to demonstrate that you really get what he is trying to convey.
Look, you maybe mean well. Look at all the nonsense he puts out, not just here, but all over the internet. He's putting his nonsense on a huge number of sites until he finds people gullible enough to think he is "unfolding" things. No, he is a snake-oil salesman. A fraud, a fake, a misleading and false person. I have shown this, I have proven this, I have told him this. If you want to believe something he says is valuable, fine, but please don't question my integrity or my honesty or my intellectual capacity, ok?
I admit I struggle a bit to follow it too, but before I start criticizing him as you seem willing to do I am going to offer someone a basic level of due respect and at least confirm that I get what they are trying to say first. I have some paradigm breaking views on interpretation of holy writ and I am well acquainted with trying to explain things to people that are difficult for them to follow. Some people are more interested in trashing my views than understanding them before they judge them. They think they are offering substantive arguments that should convince me that I am crazy, but unless and until I can see they actually understand me, their accusations are completely worthless. If you really care and you really want to promote and advocate a proper understanding of things, I highly recommend you change your posture to first get confirmation of mutual understanding and then your criticisms will have some traction.
There are enough people out there fooling others, telling them that cars can run on water. There are enough fools out there who believe them. Please don't be one of them.
Just ask him one single question what is the process during the first second as described in the Koran. He will be unable to explain how protons manage to miss particles and not destroy the forming particles. The Koran is not a scientific textbook, so why try and make it look as though it is? Why does he claim the Koran describes the processes and formation of the Universe in great detail and describes an entire model of the Universe and its formation? It is simply not true.
-
Salaam,
So you know he is not speaking the truth? Okay.
God bless
-
Peace kylixguru,
While I can appreciate your attempt to make sense of that which cannot be proven,
I must say that the clock setter (man) has no knowledge except unproven guesses
about time before the big bang. Your theory is as good as the rest but nobody knows
for sure except God.God created all things, including time, time like you are created, very easy to understand
don't you agree?Such is GOD your Lord, there is no god except He, the Creator of all things.
You shall worship Him alone. He is in control of all things.Glory be to your Lord, the great Lord; far above their claims.
THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD
peace
God has shared His knowledge plainly.
Why turn it into mystery beyond comprehension?The context for the Torah was local and specific. That is the foundation for all subsequent holy texts of Judaism, Christianity, Islam, etc. Therefore, all holy writ should be kept inside of that context.
The creation account in Genesis chapter 1 pertains to the organization of people for one instance of a "heavens and earth". When there is a "new heavens and a new earth" the whole pattern shall repeat all over again. This cycle is on the order of every 6 to 7 thousand years. Therefore, when you view this as a cycle of Adam's Eternal Family being organized into a pageant that plays out over and over again, then you are getting closer to the clean, plain and simple knowledge of God.
For example What are "hosts of heaven"? They are those placed in positions of governance to shed their "light" (leadership) to the masses. When there is "war in heaven" this means there is a contest over the governance of the people.
Another obvious example is The "greater light to rule the day" spoken of in Day 4 of the creation account didn't pertain to our local star that shines light upon our planet being created. That was just a symbol that represents Jesus Christ who was manifested in the 4th millennia who shall be our "sun" (religiously speaking) upon his return in glory. He establishes His Kingdom on Day 1 of a new cycle of creation and shines forth the light spoken of there and rules and reigns in victory over those who gather to that great light.
And, my hunch is, once you get how this geo-geneo-political cycle works, you will very likely find that things on the cosmological scale are being patterned after. In this way, just as much of our scientific advancements came out of ancient texts of the Hindi, our scientific understanding will have a quantum leap forward because there is great scientific information encoded in this geo-geneo-political pageant.
Our next major breakthrough as human beings needs to be religious. And, that breakthrough shall involve putting aside the false and self-abasing interpretations of holy writ that many, such as you are promoting here, constrain themselves by.
If we are children of our Father in Heaven (spiritually speaking) then we are heirs. It's time we grew up and put aside the milk and childish fables.
-
God has shared His knowledge plainly.
Why turn it into mystery beyond comprehension?When there is a "new heavens and a new earth" the whole pattern shall repeat all over again. This cycle is on the order of every 6 to 7 thousand years.
Do you believe this planet is 6000 years old?
Do you believe the Universe is 6000 years old?Am I misunderstanding this?
-
Do you believe this planet is 6000 years old?
Do you believe the Universe is 6000 years old?Am I misunderstanding this?
You are missing what I am saying.
I am saying that there is a cycle that is 6 to 7 thousand years, but that it does NOT pertain to cosmic things.
I am saying that the cycle pertains to geo-geneo-political things while using cosmic terms as symbols.I am saying that when you understand how to decode the "short-hand" of holy writ such that the plain and simple meaning of the cosmic symbols is properly understood, all apparent conflict between religion and science disappears.
I have also hunched that when this "creation pageant" is fully and properly understood, including how one ends and another begins, that it will provide a basis upon which cosmological things, in terms of our cosmos in a literal way, can be discovered and validated.
Added remarks
This is what I see al-amiyr focusing upon. He is looking at the pattern of things as recorded in holy writ and trying to decipher from that pattern, including the fundamentals of the root languages themselves, and gleaning from that truths in order to better understand the cosmological scope.I said earlier that things cosmic in nature are irrelevant to me. I say this because it is already a given that the cosmos exists and that it shall continue to exist in its present configuration for whatever period of my brief temporal span of life has left. I consider knowing when the sun in our solar system shall go super-nova as personally irrelevant because it won't happen in my lifetime. But, that doesn't mean I am not at the same time interested in having an understanding of those things.
-
You are missing what I am saying.
I am saying that there is a cycle that is 6 to 7 thousand years, but that it does NOT pertain to cosmic things.
I am saying that the cycle pertains to geo-geneo-political things while using cosmic terms as symbols.I am saying that when you understand how to decode the "short-hand" of holy writ such that the plain and simple meaning of the cosmic symbols is properly understood, all apparent conflict between religion and science disappears.
Sorry, but all I understand is the first sentence.
What cycles every 6-7k years? Can you provide an example with the calculation?
What are "cosmic things"?
What are "geo-geneo-political things"?
Which cosmic term is a symbol?
What is "holy writ"? What would be an example of decoded "short-hand" of holy writ translated into normal language?
What is a cosmic symbol? Do you have an example?
Religion and science are opposites, how can they have an apparent conflict? -
Sorry, but all I understand is the first sentence.
What cycles every 6-7k years? Can you provide an example with the calculation?
What are "cosmic things"?
What are "geo-geneo-political things"?
Which cosmic term is a symbol?
What is "holy writ"? What would be an example of decoded "short-hand" of holy writ translated into normal language?
What is a cosmic symbol? Do you have an example?
Religion and science are opposites, how can they have an apparent conflict?The heavens and the earth spoken of in the Torah is what cycles every 6-7k years.
But, you must have a proper understanding of what "the heavens and the earth" actually are to see it.
Cosmic things are space, asteroids, comets, moons, planets, stars, black holes, galaxies, local groups, universes, etc.
Geo-geneo-political things pertain to what lineages reside upon what portions of our planet and what kind of governance they are put under.
The creation account in Genesis chapter 1 is full of cosmic symbols.
And example of a cosmic symbol is "the greater light to rule the day" spoken of on the 4th Day of creation. This is using the sun as a symbol to mean something specific in terms of people. It pertains to the person who shall be the equivalent of our cosmic sun, but in religious terms. Jesus said "I am the light and life of the world". Jesus was the manifestation of the "greater light to rule the day" in the 4th millennium that the creation account was calling for.
Holy writ is written material that has been given for all humanity to read and consider that comes from God directly.
An example of decoding was given above by understanding Jesus as the light and life of the world.
Another example that is less obvious is, for example, when Lucifer is cast out of heaven. This means that those who have been overcome by the spirit of the adversary to enslave the people shall in time be exposed and removed from their positions of authority and governance. Falling from heaven means being removed from positions of governance. Space travel and planet hopping is not required here.
I don't see religion and science as opposites. I see them as complementary. -
The heavens and the earth spoken of in the Torah is what cycles every 6-7k years.
But, you must have a proper understanding of what "the heavens and the earth" actually are to see it.
Cosmic things are space, asteroids, comets, moons, planets, stars, black holes, galaxies, local groups, universes, etc.
Geo-geneo-political things pertain to what lineages reside upon what portions of our planet and what kind of governance they are put under.
The creation account in Genesis chapter 1 is full of cosmic symbols.
And example of a cosmic symbol is "the greater light to rule the day" spoken of on the 4th Day of creation. This is using the sun as a symbol to mean something specific in terms of people. It pertains to the person who shall be the equivalent of our cosmic sun, but in religious terms. Jesus said "I am the light and life of the world". Jesus was the manifestation of the "greater light to rule the day" in the 4th millennium that the creation account was calling for.
Holy writ is written material that has been given for all humanity to read and consider that comes from God directly.
An example of decoding was given above by understanding Jesus as the light and life of the world.
Another example that is less obvious is, for example, when Lucifer is cast out of heaven. This means that those who have been overcome by the spirit of the adversary to enslave the people shall in time be exposed and removed from their positions of authority and governance. Falling from heaven means being removed from positions of governance. Space travel and planet hopping is not required here.
I don't see religion and science as opposites. I see them as complementary.I still don't understand anything. So, because "heavens" is not explained in the Torah, I will never understand what you are saying. The same goes for Earth. What is the cycle? How does Earth cycle every few years? When was the last one and when will the next commence with what and by doing what?
Isn't it a bit simplistic saying there is this huge thing, but you can't understand it because it is not explained?
What is the difference between "cosmic things" and Universe?
Lineage? Earth under some governance? Xenu the overlord )
Genesis chapter 1 is full of nonsense, not symbols. How can plants live without sunlight? How can a god create Earth in the dark? Why are bats birds? Why are whales fish? How can there be day and night without a sun? How can Adam be created first when we know it's woman first in reality? Come on, please!
How do you know that Shakespeare is not for all mankind and written by a god? How do you know what was written by whom? Proof? Evidence? Reasonable belief?
So you can't substantiate a claim and are just making stuff up. What is claimed without evidence can be rejected without evidence. I reject all your claims, sorry.
Religion is based on faith and science is based on facts. There are no facts in religion and no faith in science. You call that complimentary? I call it opposites.
-
I still don't understand anything. So, because "heavens" is not explained in the Torah, I will never understand what you are saying. The same goes for Earth. What is the cycle? How does Earth cycle every few years? When was the last one and when will the next commence with what and by doing what?
Isn't it a bit simplistic saying there is this huge thing, but you can't understand it because it is not explained?
What is the difference between "cosmic things" and Universe?
Lineage? Earth under some governance? Xenu the overlord )
Genesis chapter 1 is full of nonsense, not symbols. How can plants live without sunlight? How can a god create Earth in the dark? Why are bats birds? Why are whales fish? How can there be day and night without a sun? How can Adam be created first when we know it's woman first in reality? Come on, please!
How do you know that Shakespeare is not for all mankind and written by a god? How do you know what was written by whom? Proof? Evidence? Reasonable belief?
So you can't substantiate a claim and are just making stuff up. What is claimed without evidence can be rejected without evidence. I reject all your claims, sorry.
Religion is based on faith and science is based on facts. There are no facts in religion and no faith in science. You call that complimentary? I call it opposites.
I'm completely comfortable with you failing to grasp what I am trying to explain.
When you actually want to understand in full sincerity, let me know.