Why the Quran decreed 3 daily ritual prayers with 2 rak'ahs each
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Dear brothers and sisters, salamun 'alaykum,
By the grace of God, I now understand very clearly that only three prayers have been decreed in the Quran.
The following information is in my opinion a major turning point in true Islam (based on the Quran alone) and I pray that you will not miss this
Verse 1587 is the key to understand how many rak'ahs have been decreed for us in salat(1587) We have revealed to you the seven recited in sets of two and the sublime Quran.
I will not spoil all the details and the easy secret that explains why this is the correct interpretation and why it does mean that two rak'ahs (i.e. 2 recitations of sura 1) have been decreed in each salat. Please read section 14 in the article on salat
http//www.islamrevolution.org/salatinthequran.htm
This article also explains the Friday prayer (section 17) in the light of this new discovery, and a lot more.
God bless you all, and please pass down this message to as many people as possible.Pierre
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015.087
Walaqad ataynaka sabAAan mina almathanee waalqur-ana alAAatheema
YUSUFALI And We have bestowed upon thee the Seven Oft-repeated (verses) and the Grand Qur'an.
PICKTHAL We have given thee seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the great Qur'an.
SHAKIR And certainly We have given you seven of the oft-repeated (verses) and the grand Quran.
KHALIFA We have given you the seven pairs, and the great Quran.Wakas is correct, "No sets of two"
May Allah guide us to the truth
Peace
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The part in bold is a made-up insertion
http//corpus.quran.com/wordbyword.jsp?chapter=15&verse=87#(15871)Salaam Wakas,
The translation you pointed out is absolutely incorrect, at least in the general context of the Quran.
?almath?n?? (ى is the plural of ?mathn?? ( = by two, as explained for instance in the ?Dictionary of the Holy Qur??n?, by Omar. Therefore, the plural ?almath?n?? means ?by sets of two?, that is to say at least three sets of two recitations of sura 1 daily, since it is a regular plural (not a dual plural, which would be only two sets).Regarding the singular ?mathn?n?, the Lane?s lexicon provides the following example regarding its use in traditional Islam
= ?The night prayer is two rak?ahs and two rak?ahs?.
This confirms that if ?mathn?? means ?two recitations of sura 1? (i.e. 2 rak?ahs), then, ?almath?n?? (regular plural) means by definition 3 or more recitations of sets of pairs of suras 1?.
The Lane?s lexicon says about the meaning of ?almath?n?? ?almath?n?, as relating to the kur?an is plural of mathn?n ?or signifies also the Fatihah ?because it is repeated, or recited twice, in every rak?ah, ??
Therefore my translation in the thread is absolutely correct. "sab?an min almath?ni" could also be translated by "the seven recited in pairs", which means exactly the same.
For those who want to verify my quote of the Lane's Lexicon, I posted the picture of the actual reference in the lexicon in my article in section 14
http//www.islamrevolution.org/salatinthequran.htm
I pray you investigate the issue thoroughly, as the correct ritual of salat is very important for the future of true Islam; what we have here is simply the key to the structure of salat, to which "the seven", that is to say the seven verses of sura 1, is the backbone.
Peace.Pierre
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salaam,
The reason why I said it was a made-up insertion was you were taking the noun "l-mathn" as " recited in sets of two ".
If you look up the concordance it doesn't seem to fit, e.g. 3923
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=vnyAnd DofQ by Omar does not say "?almath?n?? (ى is the plural of ?mathn??" it says it is the plural of "mathnan".
And of course, the verse does not mention "salat".
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salaam,
The reason why I said it was a made-up insertion was you were taking the noun "l-mathn" as " recited in sets of two ".
If you look up the concordance it doesn't seem to fit, e.g. 3923
http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=vnyAnd DofQ by Omar does not say "almath?n? (ى is the plural of mathn?" it says it is the plural of "mathnan".
And of course, the verse does not mention "salat".
Salaam Wakas,
Whether I translate almath?n? () by "in sets of two" or by "in pairs", it means the same.
Let me quote what the Dictionary of the Holy Quran by Omar says about almath?n? since you quoted it, not saying a word of what his entry about almath?n? says
"Almath?n? The oft-repeated. It is another name of the first chapter (Al-fatihah) of the Holy Quran (1587), because it is repeated in every rak'at of prayer and because it contains praise of God (Bukhari, 651).
You know full well that "ithnan", which shares the same root as almath?n? means "two". When you look at translations of 1587, they all miss the point that it means "in sets of two" or "in pairs", because they are influenced by sunnis who are afraid to translate it for what it means literally, as it would invalidate their 2/4/4/3/4 format in salat, especially the sunset prayer where they recite three rak'ahs, which contradicts 1587 and the fact that sura 1 shall be recited in "sets of two", or "pairs", and the third rak'ah stands in blatant contradiction.
This is the real reason why we can't find a correct translation out there right now.
As for the meaning of "sab'an min almath?n? you cannot deny that historically it has always refered to sura 1. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.
As for the neaning of "mathnan" (), the singular form of almath?n?, the Lane's lexicon clearly says almath?n?, as relating to the kuran is plural of mathn?n". The Lanes lexicon says that "mathnan" means
"..."
Since almath?n? is plural of "mathnan", it means "sets of by two", or sets of pairs.
More importantly, what matters is the use of mathn? (ى in the Holy Quran, and it consistently means "two" (43 "two women", 351 "two wings" or "in pairs" of individuals" (3446).
I am sorry, but my translation is very correct, it means literally "the seven in sets of two"; and when you put what it means in the historical context of Islam, it has always refered to sura 1, and its recitation in salat ... in sets of two. Why would we recite the seven verses (of sura 1) in pairs, if it were not for the purpose of salat? It is the only explanation that makes sense, especially given the historical context of salat, and what we observe today all around the world.
There is also massive circumstancial evidence of what I am saying in Shia Islam, as not only do they pray only three times a day as described in the Quran (despite the fact that they do perform 5 prayers as they group them, because they let themselves be bullied by the sunnis), but they never recite sura 1 more than twice in any given prayer. When they pray 3 or 4 rak'ahs, they do not recite sura 1 in the third and fourth rak'ah !!! This confirms further the meaning of "the seven in sets of two", i.e. the seven verses of sura 1 recited in sets of two in salat.
Peace and God bless.Pierre
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Peace Pierre.
Throughout the Quran God teaches us that His Glorious book, the Quran, will guide some and misguides others. This is is no more than God fulfilling His promise to give the humans what they asked for, take the full responsibility to choose freely and decide to accept Him , His messengers and His message or not.
I have seen people go in circles trying to define what zakat is, how many salat, when etc... ....
We should not be taken by surprise when we find others reading the same verses or read about the salat/ zakat/ hajj...in the Quran and get nothing out of them or even get the opposite understanding. It is God's system, "No compulsion in religion" 2256
Is the reason in Qoran? Is God testing us? Why does He bother to send messengers?
What is the role of messengers? Does the trial include if we accept/reject messengers?
Does each one of us want to receive the scripture personally?
I am predicting this is another thread that is going to go in circles?
Peace.
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Salaam,
I never checked lane's lexicon. DofQ can be read online here http//islamusa.org/dictionary.pdf
I note you never mentioned 3923.
Why would we recite the seven verses (of sura 1) in pairs, if it were not for the purpose of salat? It is the only explanation that makes sense, especially given the historical context of salat, and what we observe today all around the world.
It literally says "we have given you seven from/of the mathaani and the quran/reading".
Let's assume "mathaani" means "oft-repeated verses" (e.g. referring to chapter 1), that option seems to make sense also.
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Peace Pierre.
Throughout the Quran God teaches us that His Glorious book, the Quran, will guide some and misguides others. This is is no more than God fulfilling His promise to give the humans what they asked for, take the full responsibility to choose freely and decide to accept Him , His messengers and His message or not.
I have seen people go in circles trying to define what zakat is, how many salat, when etc... ....
We should not be taken by surprise when we find others reading the same verses or read about the salat/ zakat/ hajj...in the Quran and get nothing out of them or even get the opposite understanding. It is God's system, "No compulsion in religion" 2256
Is the reason in Qoran? Is God testing us? Why does He bother to send messengers?
What is the role of messengers? Does the trial include if we accept/reject messengers?
Does each one of us want to receive the scripture personally?
I am predicting this is another thread that is going to go in circles?
Peace.
Salaam dear brother,
You are right and I know full well that some people will not see it. What matters is to deliver the information.
I have personally shaped up and dropped praticing five salawat after I came across with the crucial information about 1587.
For instance Wakas did not agree that "mathna" refers to "two" or "a pair" and that its plural therefore refers to "sets (3 or more) of pairs" of sura 1, but who cares because the Quran provides the definition of ?mathn?? (), and it consistently means "two" (43 "two women", 351 "two wings" or "in pairs" of individuals" (3446).
Therefore my translation of 1587 is correct "
"the seven in sets of two ".
Why in the world would rthe seven verses of sura 1 be recited in sets of two, if it were not for what we know for a fact is the practice of salat?
As I said, there is massive circumstancial evidence of what I am saying in Shia Islam, as not only do they pray only three times a day as described in the Quran (despite the fact that they do perform 5 prayers as they group them, because they let themselves be bullied by the sunnis), but they never recite sura 1 more than twice in any given prayer. When they pray 3 or 4 rak'ahs, they do not recite sura 1 in the third and fourth rak'ah !!! This confirms further the meaning of "the seven in sets of two", i.e. the seven verses of sura 1 recited in sets of two in salat.
furthermore, even hadiths literature, even though widely corrupted, acknowledges my translation of 1587
Hadith Bukhari (Sahih) number 346, narrated by Aisha
The mother of believers "Allah enjoined the prayer. When He enjoined it, it was two rakat only , both in residence or on a journey. Then the prayers offered on a journey remained the same, but the prayers for non travellers were increased."
The above hadith does not say clearly who increased the number of rak'ahs, but it does say that it is God Himself who initiated the practice of two units in every prayer, as I am saying it is the case in 1587.
For the first time brother we have a ritual of salat based on 3 daily prayers of 2 rak'ahs each that makes sense Quranically. This is huge.
This said, I understand that some people will decide to stick to their own beliefs.Peace and God bless.
Pierre
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Salaam,
I never checked lane's lexicon. DofQ can be read online here http//islamusa.org/dictionary.pdf
I note you never mentioned 3923.
It literally says "we have given you seven from/of the mathaani and the quran/reading".
Let's assume "mathaani" means "oft-repeated verses" (e.g. referring to chapter 1), that option seems to make sense also.
Salaam Wakas,
Here is the literal translation of 3923 in Openburhan
(3923) God descended the information's/speech's best , a Book looking alike/resembling/ similar doubles of twos Koranic verses , (the) skins (of) those who fear their Lord tremble/shiver from it, then their skins and their hearts/minds soften to God's remembrance/reminder, that (is) God's guidance, He guides with it whom He wills/wants, and who God misguides so (there is) none from a guide for him.
You see that mathani refers to "doubles of twos Koranic verses".Razi claims that "mathaniya" in 3923 means "pairing its statements", i.e., referring to the polarity stressed in all Quranic teachings (e.g., command and prohibition, duties and rights, reward and punishment, paradise and hell, light and darkness, the general and the specific, and so forth).
You could have a point with 3923; the problem is that "al mathani" is a regular plural genitive noun in 1587, plural of mathn? (), which consistently means "two" (43 "two women", 351 "two wings" or "in pairs" of individuals" (3446) throughout the entire Quran.
Mathna is "two", therefore, almathani, its plural, equals "sets of twos" or "sets of pairs".
What do you have to say about the circumstancial evidence in Shia Islam where sura 1, even today (!), in only recited twice in each salat (they don't recite it in the 3rd and 4th rak'ahs)!
And what do you have to say about Hadith Bukhari (Sahih) number 346, narrated by Aisha
The mother of believers "Allah enjoined the prayer. When He enjoined it, it was two rakat only , both in residence or on a journey. Then the prayers offered on a journey remained the same, but the prayers for non travellers were increased."And last but not least, the most overwhelming circumstancial evidence is the Friday prayer, where only two sura 1 and 2 rak'ahs are recited. It was the hardest salat to pervert because it is the mandatory community prayer and everyone in the Muslim community would have refused to pray other than two rak'ahs.
This all shows, in addition to 1587, that the original authentic Quranic ritual in the salat, to which sura 1 is the backbone, is to recite it twice in each prayer.
Peace and God bless.Pierre
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Throughout the Quran God teaches us that His Glorious book, the Quran, will guide some and misguides others. This is is no more than God fulfilling His promise to give the humans what they asked for, take the full responsibility to choose freely and decide to accept Him , His messengers and His message or not.
Peace GL,
hypno
& I seek refuge in Allah for such claims. &
May Allah protect us and increase us in knowledge and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
Thanks for pointing that. God is the doer! Through Qoran.
To clarify, God guides or misguides.
Peace.
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Dear brothers and sisters, salamun 'alaykum,
By the grace of God, I now understand very clearly that only three prayers have been decreed in the Quran.
The following information is in my opinion a major turning point in true Islam (based on the Quran alone) and I pray that you will not miss this
Verse 1587 is the key to understand how many rak'ahs have been decreed for us in salat(1587) We have revealed to you the seven recited in sets of two and the sublime Quran.
I will not spoil all the details and the easy secret that explains why this is the correct interpretation and why it does mean that two rak'ahs (i.e. 2 recitations of sura 1) have been decreed in each salat. Please read section 14 in the article on salat
http//www.islamrevolution.org/salatinthequran.htm
This article also explains the Friday prayer (section 17) in the light of this new discovery, and a lot more.
God bless you all, and please pass down this message to as many people as possible.Pierre
Salaaman Pierre,
1587
1587 And We have certainly given you, seven of the often repeated and the great alQuraan.There is no mentioned of "aayaats", "sura fatiha" and "salaat" in this aayat. So, it could be referring to anything, for example
401
411
421
431
441
451
461These are also seven and repeated one after the other . This proof is better than referring to sura-alfatiha in Salaat, because just to fit their interpretation they twist the word of Allah and made 7 aayaats of sura-alfatiha instead of original 6 aayaats in sura-alfatiha. I seek refuge in Allah for distorting or twisting the word of Allah in anyways.
May Allah protect us and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
Thanks for pointing that. God is the doer! Through Qoran.
To clarify, God guides or misguides.
Peace.
Peace brother GL,
There is no "through alQuraan" mentioned for misguidance. This is the Book of guidance and it cannot misguide. Only Allah misguides people who wants to be misguided by their deeds. Hence, Allah guides and misguides through their deeds not alQuraan.
May Allah bless you,
mmKhan -
Peace mmkhan.
I disagree.
Quran 1782] We send down in the Quran healing and mercy for the believers. At the same time, it only increases the wickedness of the transgressors.
God does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, from the tiny MOSQUITO and greater. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for hose who disbelieve, they say, "What did God mean by such an allegory?" He misleads many thereby, and guides many thereby. But He never misleads thereby except the wicked,
The Jews even said, "God's hand is tied down!" It is their hands that are tied down. They are condemned for uttering such a blasphemy. Instead, His hands are wide open, spending as He wills. For certain, your Lord's revelations to you will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Consequently, we have committed them to animosity and hatred among themselves until the Day of Resurrection. Whenever they ignite the flames of war, God puts them out. They roam the earth wickedly, and God dislikes the evildoers.you have no basis until you uphold the Torah, and the Gospel, and what is sent down to you herein from your Lord." For sure, these revelations from your Lord will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Therefore, do not feel sorry for the disbelieving people.
God points out the PATHS, including the wrong ones. If He willed, He could have guided all of you.
We showed him the two PATHS, then, he is either appreciative, or unappreciative.Peace.
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Salaaman Pierre,
1587
1587 And We have certainly given you, seven of the often repeated and the great alQuraan.There is no mentioned of "aayaats", "sura fatiha" and "salaat" in this aayat. So, it could be referring to anything, for example
401
411
421
431
441
451
461These are also seven and repeated one after the other . This proof is better than referring to sura-alfatiha in Salaat, because just to fit their interpretation they twist the word of Allah and made 7 aayaats of sura-alfatiha instead of original 6 aayaats in sura-alfatiha. I seek refuge in Allah for distorting or twisting the word of Allah in anyways.
May Allah protect us and guide us to His only path pr
mmKhanSalaam brother,
Twere is no mention of number seven with the other occurrence of al mathani in 3923, I think you are confused, or I did not understand your point.
The Quran is fully detailed and it also contains allegorical language that has a specific meaning intended to guide those who believe. With your approach, no one will ever understand the meaning of 1587, and a number of other verses as well. It is impossible. And with your approach and the one of many people on this website, people disconnect completely from Islam as they totally ignore the historical context and everyone reinvents his own Islam. They are the most divided. In my case I follow the Quran alone, and I do not try to reinvent the wheel either. The "valley of Mecca" mentioned in 4823 does refer to the place where the Sacred Masjid (mentioned in 4824) is located (you know some people deny that on this website); Of course, I do "stand, bow, and prostrate" physically during salat, as mentioned in the Quran, and as everyone has always done for over 1400 years in Islam, and before that in judaism and Christianity, and I will never question that either, and so on.
So when Islamic historical sources tell me that "the seven in sets of two" refer to al Fatihah, I pay very close attention, and I cannot but witness today that the Shias only recite twice al fatiha in each salat, that a hadith Bukhary quotes Aicha saying that originally only two rak'ahs were commanded by God, and most of all, the Fiday prayer is also two rak'ahs/recitation of sura 1, and it is obvious that it was the hardest salat to corrupt because all Muslims around the world have always prayed it together.
God's remembrance (the Zikr) is closely related to salat in the Quran, for instance in 2945; if you look at the other occurrence of almathani in 3923, the context is also about God's remembrance, and it is in my opinion also related to salat, where the book of God is recited in sequences of two in every prayer, not just Al Fatihah.
No one on this thread so far has commented the massive historical and circumstantial evidence about sura 1 being recited in sequences or sets of two. No one. I repeat it in every single message, nobody cares.
So, if you choose to ignore the fact that the meaning of sab'an min almathani has always been known as relating to Al fatihah historically and the fact that the seven verses are recited in sets of two in salat, it is your choice, and I respect it. In my case, I refuse to go to the extreme and deny all the history of Islam, like Mecca not being the city where the Sacred Masjid is located for instance. In other words, I refuse to disconnect from the reality of Islam and end up completely lost, simply because I would have followed my own ego.
For the first time in my life as a Muslim, I understand that we recite sura 1 twice in every salat, and I switched recently to the observance of three salawat daily, as only three salawat are mentioned in the Quran, and I certainly will not refuse to stand, bow down and prostrate physically in salat like every generation of Muslim has done since at least Abraham.
I hope you will understand my point of view.
Peace and God bless.Pierre
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Peace
O Ye who believe! approach not prayer while ye are intoxicated until ye know that which ye SAY......................443
There is no READ or RECITE in PRAYERS, but only SAY and that too you should understand what you SAY. When you SAY in PRAYERS then there should be someone who should LISTEN and it is none other than Allah TO LISTEN YOUR prayers.
And seek HELP in patience and PRAYER and verily it is, hard except prayer unto the meek 245
The main purpose of PRAYER is seeking HELP from Allah
There did Zakariya pray to his Lord, saying "O my Lord! Grant unto me from Thee a progeny that is pure for Thou art He that heareth prayer! Then the angels called unto him even while he stood PRAYING in the CHAMBER verily Allah announceth unto thee Yahya confessing to a word from Allah, and a leader, and a chaste and a prophet of the righteous one. He SAID my Lord! in what wise shall there be unto me a youth whereas age hath overtaken me and my wife is barren. Allah SAID even so Allah doeth whatsoever He listeth He SAID my Lord! appoint unto me a sign. Allah SAID thy sign is that thou shalt not speak unto mankind for three days save by beckoning; and remember thy Lord much and hallow Him in the evening and morning. 339/40/41
If you SAY in your PRAYERS then indeed it is the SALAT of the QURAN and if NOT then ..................
Thanks
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(1587) We have revealed to you the seven in sets of two and the sublime Quran.
I am not the only one who chose to translate "sab'an min al mathani" in a literal way by "the seven in sets of two".
Qaribullah does pretty much much the same in his translation
(1587) We have given you the seven dual (verses, Al Fatihah) and the Mighty Holy Reading (Koran).
"seven dual" (verses of al fatiha) because they are recited twice in salat.When you look at the meaning of the singular "mathna" in the Quran (two, pair), you have to translate its plural "al mathani" by "sets of two" or "sets of pairs". It is pure logic.
Peace.Pierre
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Peace
6619 is correct, almathani means in pairs, in fact it emphasises it by saying al meaning only in pairs, and min meaning throughout or continually in pairs...so each salat cannot have more than two recitations of the first sura of the Quran, and cannot have less... i.e. exactly two...
and when you collate that with other verses, the tally comes to three prayers of two rak'3a each with one fatiha in each rak'3a...in fact, I have advised all my family members who do pray to always pray only three times a day
in the fajr, in the middle of the day and just after sunset, reading the fatiha only twice per salat, i.e. once per rak'3a with the tally of rak'3at per salat as being two...
