Do we need books to believe in God?

[Bahman]

Where is the need for you to jump from 262 to 2282 irrelevantly? Clearly you are out of context here.

peace
Oldness, low visions mistake sorry mean 262 )

I am not accusing! I just want you to justify reason why you removed Allah's Ayats in sura Tauba and destroyed Quran thereby totally.

Rashad has removed and has explained why? and I accept as is rejected in hundred cases and finally in final discovery of whole book which do not function with those verses
http//purified-scripture.com/

There you are going very personal showing your intolerance as you grow weaker in your defence.

It is not personal when you added to your name, the reason iam asking is if your PHD has any link with theology and Quarn study .

You call the verses of Allah as satanic verses because satan did not like those 2 verses? How do you call your Quran as purified while you fell prostrated to the likes and dislikes of satan; and when you abide by his order and removed the said verses?

You are repeating same question in many different ways and such discussion could be tiring and no ending one if you do not read material I post and pinpoint the flaw .

Not the Satanic Quran of Rashad! I am not running away; it seems your wits are running out of your time. I am following my Quran which has not been adulterated by satan.

Expecting more valuable and reasonable response than this for question, you should come with some answere which of those Quran are the right copy of burnt one. ?
Peace

[Bigmo]

Peace everybody.
I have tried to retire from this forum few times but still I am here )
I have been enough here and is time to stay away from any discussion after this topic.

Do we need books to believe in God?

Either way yes or no please explain why?

Peace.

I think people mostly believe in scriptures because they already believe in its message. Unless you already believe in God than you would believe in scriptures. Scriptures confirms what we believe. But to understand the deen you need scriptures. After all God has many signs like the creation f the universe and also the creation of human beings and animals. Fate and destiny and the life itself are God's signs. Many believers in the Muhbammedan message believed in the message before most verses of the Quran did not come down yet. Moses had his own signs and so did Jesus. The Quran is a sign after all but as a scriptures its also a guidance towards the deen. The Quran reminds Muhammad about the stories of the past prophets as a further guidance. So scriptures guide us towards the deen but faith is internal.

[Bahman]

......................
7521 and leave the afterlife

7431
Peace DR Eid Manipulator ,this id fits your work when like lock picker open other poeple lock and now you use your knowledge and all tools available for fiting my name or other name inot locked design by God.
Nothing wrong with, it shows your ability and your knowledge of using tools available this this era
in Satanic way to confuse the truth seekers, but your darkened minds has vieled you understanding that prophet Mohammed did not had your knowledge of computer and calculating when he scribes Quran
You have posted many times this or other manipulated patterns.
Stop such manipulation of God's Miracle and this is a warning, USE YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND DESIGN YOUR OWN PHRASE WITH 4 WORDS AND MEANINGFUL AND THE SHOW THE EMBEDDED COUNTS.
BUT REMEMBER EVEN YOU DO THAT THEN IS ANOTHER PROOF THAT QURAN WAS REVEALED TO PROPHET WHICH DID NOT PROCESS PHD IN MATH AND ACCESS TO ALL TOOLS>
PRODUCE ONE LIKE IT WITHOUT COMPUTER BY PEN AN PAPER
STOP MANIPULATION AN SABOTAGING THIS TOPIC
Peace

[Bahman]

I am sorry I have not offended any one intentionally but my offence is against shaitan. Rashad just fell a prey to satan by a thread from him. Allah might forgive Rashad; Allah is the only judge; we do not judge here. We all seek forgiveness to ourselves and others. Had he lived today he might have undone the damage he had caused to Quran. The killers of Dr Rashad Khalifa will be in hell for sure for they took the judgment in their hands belying that Allah is the only Judge. Thus the killers are the disbelievers in Allah and the Last Day. I am sorry. I did not mean to demean anybody. I am here to discuss and exchange my view points.

I pray for you; you pray for me.

Salam, Bahman

drfazl

Peace
You should clear your mind from your learning and have straight path on solid base, you should avoid talking with 2 sides of the mouth, in one way you write
"I am sorry I have not offended any one intentionally"
and then you claim again
"Rashad just fell a prey to satan by a thread from him."
and then again
"I am sorry. I did not mean to demean anybody."
Which one is right, make your mind please and do not be confused.
Peace

[Bahman]

I think people mostly believe in scriptures because they already believe in its message.

I agree with you as the majority are in this category

Unless you already believe in God than you would believe in scriptures.

Not necessary to believe in book for believing in God, I personally from age of 50-60 believeing in Creation but no scripture as they do not match and contradict to each other and that causing big problem

Scriptures confirms what we believe.

Minus the messages belongs to time and location.

But to understand the deen you need scriptures

All God needs to follow straight path, 262.
right?eous
/rCHs/
Adjective
(of a person or conduct) Morally right or justifiable; virtuous.
Perfectly wonderful; fine and genuine.
Synonyms
just - right - upright - rightful - fair - honest
I have been as far as i could before believing in God , and any body can be , there are many atheist that have this qualification.
Now since 50 i believed in God and rejecting that creation is due to chemical formation and big bang.
but resurrection was not clear for me even accepting that nothing goes to null which after witnessing Miracle i believe in it as our craetor says.

After all God has many signs like the creation f the universe and also the creation of human beings and animals. Fate and destiny and the life itself are God's signs. Many believers in the Muhbammedan message believed in the message before most verses of the Quran did not come down yet. Moses had his own signs and so did Jesus.
The Quran is a sign after all but as a scriptures its also a guidance towards the deen.
The Quran reminds Muhammad about the stories of the past prophets as a further guidance. So scriptures guide us towards the deen but faith is internal.

Why not older scripture, Quran is completion of older scripture and verifying those, how a book can claim is completion and verification hence without Miracle is in same level as older when most part of it is repeating same messages. ?

Peace

[Noon_waalqalami]

Stop such manipulation of God's Miracle and this is a warning

Simple combinations no need for special tools exposes what numerologist do everyday.
Flip, flip, flip, etc., until multiples found then report to the ignorant and claim it's miracle.

http//www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html

This nineteen nonsense code, interlock, blah blah blah is some of the dumbest invented.

Peace

[Bahman]

Simple combinations no need for special tools exposes what numerologist do everyday.
Flip, flip, flip, etc., until multiples found then report to the ignorant and claim it's miracle.

http//www.mathsisfun.com/combinatorics/combinations-permutations-calculator.html

This nineteen nonsense code, interlock, blah blah blah is some of the dumbest invented.

Peace

7431 )
You mean Prophet Mohammed had Mathematics PHD like you and doing flip flop the words for 23 years using tools and programms you offerhad access to your offered site ? rotfl

Where you got your Phd and How )

If using 10 letters producing a phrase with beautiful meaning by 4 words then make simpler for you.

Use 3 letters and designe for words with such meaningful meaning multiple of 19

PRODUCE ONE LIKE IT WITHOUT COMPUTER BY PEN AN PAPER

Or use computer too then i consider your claims. )

Don't waste time of readers please.

[Noon_waalqalami]

doing flip flop the words for 23 years using tools and programms you offerhad access to your offered site ?

You don't understand the simplest of things; I'm not doing anything special only showing what you are doing.

If using 10 letters producing a phrase with beautiful meaning by 4 words then make simpler for you.

It is really simple, "you write any 4 word 19 letter phrase in Arabic" post it here, we'll use your same method.

[Bahman]

It is really simple, "you write any 4 word 19 letter phrase in Arabic" post it here, we'll use your same method.

My Arabic is not enough to do so, you claim then do all show.
What you mean by these abbreviation , write in detail

w l tl wgv lgv lgv-added

Try this then do your own show.

301
1305
1301
130305

30,113,051,301,130,305=
19x 1584897436901595

30,113,051,301,130,3051584897436901595=
7x.........
reading in Arabic from right to left
130305 1305 1305 301

53030113015301130,
Total GV
165,53030113015301130,12
7x.........
total gv in text > total words > total letters >letter I has 2 letters >letters Gv >total gv >word 2 ?.
165 4,12,1 2 301 31 2 3 1305 36 3 3 1301 32 4 4 130305 66
7x.........

[Noon_waalqalami]

What you mean by these abbreviation , write in detail

w l tl wgv lgv lgv-added

Was this not obvious?

in name BaHMaN
26040 254050 13020084050 13020081040

w l tl wgv lgv lgv-added
1 3 3 102 26040 2 62 102
2 4 7 97 254050 104 109 149 199
3 6 13 329 13020084050 200 230 430 438 478 528
4 6 19 289 13020081040 529 559 759 767 777 817

Example...
1 3 3 102 26040 2 62 102

w=word# 1
l=letters 3
tl=total letters 3
wgv=102
lgv=26040
lgv-added=2 62 102

Try this then do your own show.

Show same consistent pattern for all 59 verses?

w lts chv text
4 19 11
4 19 14
4 19 1216
4 19 205
4 19 2023
4 19 234
4 19 2336
4 19 2654
4 19 2679
4 19 2696
4 19 2699
4 19 26114
4 19 26192
4 19 26212
4 19 3740
4 19 3752
4 19 3774
4 19 3780
4 19 3781
4 19 3796
4 19 37103
4 19 37111
4 19 37121
4 19 37123
4 19 37128
4 19 37131
4 19 37132
4 19 37141
4 19 37142
4 19 37160
4 19 3837
4 19 4054
4 19 412
4 19 4314
4 19 4427
4 19 483
4 19 5121
4 19 5134
4 19 5341
4 19 5347
4 19 5359
4 19 5617
4 19 5683
4 19 5687
4 19 6950
4 19 708
4 19 7312
4 19 7618
4 19 7744
4 19 8040
4 19 8042
4 19 8328
4 19 8330
4 19 8333
4 19 848
4 19 849
4 19 8712
4 19 8927
4 19 1071

Peace

[Bahman]

Was this not obvious?

Example...
1 3 3 102 26040 2 62 102

w=word# 1
l=letters 3
tl=total letters 3
wgv=102
lgv=26040
lgv-added=2 62 102 ?

peace )
lgv-added=2 62 102 ?
what is 62

Show same consistent pattern for all 59 verses?

w lts chv text
4 19 11
....

I asked you write your own text in Arabic with 4 words and 19 letters then do your show.
Thank you for your search if you are right there are 112 unnumbered Bsm 4 w 19 l plus another 59 numbered verses having 4 w and 19 l = 171 =19x9 total of all verses having same property as first verse. ! may be something more into it.
Do you think this is coincidence ? )
Do you claim that all those 58 verses can be manipulated as you did with first one and have same patterns already you have.?
Peace
PS YOUR OWN TEXT NOT QURAN.

[Bahman]

peace )
lgv-added=2 62 102 ?
what is 62
I asked you write your own text in Arabic with 4 words and 19 letters then do your show.
Thank you for your search if you are right there are 112 unnumbered Bsm 4 w 19 l plus another 59 numbered verses having 4 w and 19 l = 171 =19x9 total of all verses having same property as first verse. ! may be something more into it.
Do you think this is coincidence ? )
Do you claim that all those 58 verses can be manipulated as you did with first one and have same patterns already you have.?
Peace
PS YOUR OWN TEXT NOT QURAN.

There are ONLY 152 ( 19x verses ending NUN with 4 words and 19 letters in Quran
God blesses Eid AbdAllah showing him His creation of Quran may he understand.
This is not first time that in middle of his critics new fact appears .
One of his most complicated and amazing discovery has been following which the file link is broken .

Fact 7
My finding for adding 3 digits 666 concluded
Dr.Eid Abdallah discovery that table after adding 2 verses convert any random 3 , 21, 39 ...by adding 18 digits each time to infinite;
Any figure with having digits divisible by 18 with reminder 3 in either side of table converts to multiple of 19

Table 23
Peace )
Please use explorer

[Bahman]

There are ONLY 152 (19x verses ending NUN with 4 words and 19 letters in Quran
God blesses Eid AbdAllah showing him His creation of Quran may he understand.
This is not first time that in middle of his critics new fact appears .
One of his most complicated and amazing discovery has been following which the file link is broken .

Fact 7
My finding for adding 3 digits 666 concluded
Dr.Eid Abdallah discovery that table after adding 2 verses convert any random 3 , 21, 39 ...by adding 18 digits each time to infinite;
Any figure with having digits divisible by 18 with reminder 3 in either side of table converts to multiple of 19

Table 23
Peace
Please use explorer

Peace everybody,
I started this topic for simple answer and reason why we should believe in books or not, but as usual the discussion took off the topic when Dr.Fazi claimed for his understand of initials A LM and then as usual Dr.Eid Abdallh as usual poured all kinds of numbers, but finally if Satan schemes God knows best and you witness how the claim are in benefit of God's Miracle.

Thsi forum has very good search engine and it can be used to post older discussions by a line of url .
For example using my name in first verse is not knew and just entering part of claim we find more pages about it.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=16958.msg293326#msg293326
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603635.msg295531#msg295531
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9603452.msg292706#msg292706
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10044.msg232651#msg232651

Quote from NunHolidayPseudoEidRex on December 20, 2009, 190526

The last one gives warning Malvare ahead

IF any moderator reading this try it and may a virus nesting in forum!!!!!
Hope this helps to keep this topic clean.
Peace

[Noon_waalqalami]

lgv-added=2 62 102 ?
what is 62

26040
(2) (2+60=62) (2+60+40=102)
thus 2 62 102

I asked you write your own text in Arabic with 4 words and 19 letters then do your show.

You claim there is code thus burden is on the claimant.

Try to reproduce this 4 word 19 letter text/pattern...
indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces
150 16010010501204065 13060040200 1500 = 19 x ...
2+10+5+2 = 19 x 1
2 10 5 2 = 19 x 1108
2 1 10 2 5 3 2 4 = 19 x 11106596
2 1 12 2 17 3 19 4 = 19 x 1111693326
3 1 15 2 23 3 29 4 = 19 x 1639591226
51 1 293 2 871 3 501 4 = 19 x 26910173007106
51 1 344 2 1215 3 1716 4 = 19 x 2691285327121956

Do you think this is coincidence ?

Not coincidence each time you come across non-multiple you skip or add/delete to make multiple.

Do you claim that all those 58 verses can be manipulated as you did with first one and have same patterns already you have.?

No, that is what you have to show is a consistent pattern and apply to every verse.
That is code; input variables in consistent exact sequence each time output multiple.

Peace

[Bahman]

26040
(2) (2+60=62) (2+60+40=102)
thus 2 62 102

You claim there is code thus burden is on the claimant.

Try to reproduce this 4 word 19 letter text/pattern...
indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces
150 16010010501204065 13060040200 1500 = 19 x ...
2+10+5+2 = 19 x 1
2 10 5 2 = 19 x 1108
2 1 10 2 5 3 2 4 = 19 x 11106596
2 1 12 2 17 3 19 4 = 19 x 1111693326
3 1 15 2 23 3 29 4 = 19 x 1639591226
51 1 293 2 871 3 501 4 = 19 x 26910173007106
51 1 344 2 1215 3 1716 4 = 19 x 2691285327121956

Not coincidence each time you come across non-multiple you skip or add/delete to make multiple.

No, that is what you have to show is a consistent pattern and apply to every verse.
That is code; input variables in consistent exact sequence each time output multiple.

Peace

you have posted 5 times and now 6th .
You are proud of your work when using computer and programs to find words that fit into your cumulation and such forcing has caused such micky mouse design with none sense meaning.
color=red] indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces

indeed we gave you to drink it the wine traces !!!c

I let those that know good Arabic check it and those that are good in English translate it.

How ever even you make a good text you have used computer to adjust it to your need. and certainly your work is a DESIGN to function with code 19 .
If yours is design then why those discoveries are not considered same as your work without using computer.?

For consistency i have shown how chapters with same patterns could be categorized into groups, i did not had time to do whole book as ima not very good like you for these kinds of calc. you may complete it ;D

Nothing is coincidence even our presence on this screen and discussing such issues.

Regardless proof for book have it or do not have it the question is the topic.

We may stop this calc and take to the place which has been pondered many times and let others share their comments, you very welcome for your input but just topic please.
Thank you for your effort and causing some new thing to be discovered by you as i have explained in previous posts
Peace

[easternqibla]

Returning to the original question

Do we need books to believe in God?

Either way yes or no please explain why?

I posted here before, but remembered this quotation

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abd Allah "We were with the Prophet when a Companion brought in a fledgling which he had caught, and one of the parent birds came and threw itself into the hands of him who had taken its young.

I saw men's faces full of wonderment, and the Prophet said
'Do ye wonder at this bird? Ye have taken its young, and it hath thrown itself down in merciful tenderness unto its young. Yet I swear by God, your Lord is more merciful unto you than is this bird unto its fledgling.'

And he told the man to put back the young bird where he had found it."

(Martin Lings, Muhammad His Life Based on the Earliest Sources, p. 20
http//www.quranclub.net/2009/11/fledgling.html

'Yet I swear by God, your Lord is more merciful unto you than is this bird unto its fledgling' Did the parent bird tweet instructions to its fledgling? Did it write anything in a book to its fledgling? So too with Allah.

It's interesting, as an Orthodox Christian, I have read stuff Muslims have written against God becoming incarnate, and agree with what they say fully, in no way twisting things. It's just that our Christian terminology is somewhat loose (although various long councils have explained our beliefs more fully) that is why I can read the Quran and agree with it.

Jesus is the Word bestowed on Mary, the Word which took flesh from her. Therefore we do not need words or books to listen to or to learn from if we can find the Word-in-humanity inside us.

Simply really,

Richard

[Bahman]

Therefore we do not need words or books to listen to or to learn from if we can find the Word-in-humanity inside us.
Simply really,
Richard

Peace
Agree but when we promote existence of God on this screen then we need proof for such claim.
My source for such proof is Quran.
Peace

[easternqibla]

Peace
Agree but when we promote existence of God on this screen then we need proof for such claim.
My source for such proof is Quran.
Peace

Depends on your interpretation of Jesus being the Word bestowed on Mary. Do we read the Quran alone (or with hadith) to try to understand it, or assume the same understanding as the Christian Ethiopian King to whom these verses were quoted?
peace
Richard

[Bahman]

Depends on your interpretation of Jesus being the Word bestowed on Mary. Do we read the Quran alone (or with hadith) to try to understand it, or assume the same understanding as the Christian Ethiopian King to whom these verses were quoted?
peace
Richard

Peace
Over hundreds religions with their book and by many interpolations which has caused such divisions and sub divisions and causing such situation because each of us raise with our parents belief and we follow it blindly regardless our knowledge and education, but if we leave away the stories and hadith all of those claim the messages are for guiding human to straight path.
In time of revealing those books up to few century when education started to be polpulare not only for rich and high level people more and more poeple could do their own study and search and now by such granted screen we can find truth in thousand of seconds when such search may was taking days, weeks even year time.

Due to corruption in all religions the new generation re running away from religions and many of them are interested to believe in God without any book and such thing is recorded in Quran too.
262

Scholars and clergies sr till can do their paid job to promote their idols abusing name of God and his messages for those that they eyes are veiled and using books for n bloodshed , power and greed.

Times go fast and in near future nobody goe to school to learn messages of God as God Alone is only TEACHER of his messages, Mufti bliion incorporated religions centers and school would be abandoned by people, as you said God is in humanity and all creation and anybody any time without any media man and building can meditate with his own God and no BOOK.

Peace

[GODsubmitter]

The book is a good guide to integrate the ego and the self for people who are not spiritually developed enough to do it without the book, just with God's guidance and grace, but the rest is anyway doomed to perish anyway.