SURA FATIHA IS NOT IN THE "ORIGINAL QURAN"
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Peace supportpeacenotwar,
My signature is a riddle. The full riddle goes like this
The secret of monotheism can be found if you reflect on the garden of eden.
Salam, oh, I see. Thanks. Is it meant purely for reflection or is it a riddle with a particular answer?
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Salam, oh, I see. Thanks. Is it meant purely for reflection or is it a riddle with a particular answer?
Peace supportpeacenotwar,
Yes my signature is a riddle/brainteaser/challenge with a particular answer.
Here's a hint "There are three major entities in the garden of eden what are they"?
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Peace supportpeacenotwar,
Yes my signature is a riddle/brainteaser/challenge with a particular answer.
Here's a hint "There are three major entities in the garden of eden what are they"?
Salaam, hawkninetynine,
I'm not that good at stuff like this. I'll probably never get it. P This is likely wrong but in terms of entities all I can think of are the garden itself, human beings (at the start) and the presence of God? I doubt that's it... You're gonna have to spell it out for me, sorry. >.<
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Salaam, hawkninetynine,
I'm not that good at stuff like this. I'll probably never get it. This is likely wrong but in terms of entities all I can think of are the garden itself, human beings (at the start) and the presence of God? I doubt that's it... You're gonna have to spell it out for me, sorry. >.<
Peace supportpeacenotwar,
You got two of the three, they are the humans, God and the devil. The relationship
between the three is "the secret to monotheism" no answer required, just something
to reflect about. -
Peace supportpeacenotwar,
You got two of the three, they are the humans, God and the devil. The relationship
between the three is "the secret to monotheism" no answer required, just something
to reflect about.Salaam hawkninetynine,
Not bad... that's an interesting way of looking at it. Does it mean partly that to understand God we must understand our relationship with God?
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Salaam hawkninetynine,
Two out of three... not bad... that's an interesting way of looking at it. Does it mean partly that to understand God, in our own limited way, we must understand our relationship with God?
no idea why this quote automatically came up...
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Dear All,Salam
If you go to Islamic awareness and then to "Sana Quran",you can see that qurans written during 1st century Hijrah do not have sura fatiha.Also go to "quran Complex"in Saudi Arabia,I mean their SITE on internet,you can see pictures of many qurans,of course older qurans,pictures show only the first page,and you will see that many qurans start with sura baqar the 2nd sura now known ti us starting with "alif lam meem".
Also present quran says,"quran and seven oft repeated ayats"this also tells us that quran and seven ayats are two different writtings.But after the firsst century people added this sura as a part of quran perhaps because of its repeating in prayers.Thanks.What leap of logic enables 'oldest found' to be 'original'? Even TODAY Muslims burn disused Qurans. What makes you think some disused Quran hidden in some wall is the original?
What other leap of logic makes us think that 'sab3a min al-mathaany' is the fatiha? Or that 'wa' necessarily has to be something else?
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Salamun alaykum
I did not read all of the responses so I am not sure if someone already brought this up.
In surah 1113 it says
Or, do they say He has forged it. Say Then bring ten surahs like it and call upon whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.
in Surah 223 it says
And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant, then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful
In surah 11 there are ten surahs before it. In surah 2 there is one surah before it. The fact that Allah specifies to bring ten in the eleventh surah and one in the second surah tells ME that the Fatiha is part of the original Quran and the Quran we have now is ordered as Allah has planned it.
note ***
There is another verse 1038
Or do they say, "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful
This verse is void of the term thereof/of/from/there unto which implies that what is currently existing which in surah 2 the only surah existing before it was surah 1.
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Quite observant and to the point that, Melly, and seems to clinch the question in all simplicity. Thanks so much.
Not that for me it was not clinched before. Somewhat one gets so used to the doom announcements that this or that discovery would make manifest the fallacy of the Qur'an integrity and so forth that no announcement now makes any dent on me. So the Qur'an itself, long before the clever XXIst century seems to have had some gift for record keeping. Great.
Salaam
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Salamun alaykum
I did not read all of the responses so I am not sure if someone already brought this up.
In surah 1113 it says
Or, do they say He has forged it. Say Then bring ten surahs like it and call upon whom you can besides Allah, if you are truthful.
in Surah 223 it says
And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant, then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful
In surah 11 there are ten surahs before it. In surah 2 there is one surah before it. The fact that Allah specifies to bring ten in the eleventh surah and one in the second surah tells ME that the Fatiha is part of the original Quran and the Quran we have now is ordered as Allah has planned it.
note ***
There is another verse 1038
Or do they say, "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful
This verse is void of the term thereof/of/from/there unto which implies that what is currently existing which in surah 2 the only surah existing before it was surah 1.Peace Melly,
Astute observation, thank you.
ONE GOD ONE WAY
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Great points Melly, and everyone else. I view it this way the Shahadah has remained preserved, 631 which shows the second shahadah, that of the hypocrites has remained preserved, the use of the word hadith in the Quran has remained preserved - even if in some verses the translations have tried to twist the meanings especially with the brackets explanations. The structure of the Quran has remained unconventional to the point where those who don't believe call it an "incoherent mess" and some also say that it can even prevent some people from reading it fully - even though it is a book/recitation that calls upon the reader/listener to read it and hear the call.
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The structure of the Quran has remained unconventional to the point where those who don't believe call it an "incoherent mess" and some also say that it can even prevent some people from reading it fully - even though it is a book/recitation that calls upon the reader/listener to read it and hear the call.
I'm really sad for such people because to me, the structure of the Quran is the ultimate way of eliciting its meanings.
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I'm really sad for such people because to me, the structure of the Quran is the ultimate way of eliciting its meanings.
I'm in agreement, I also think it teaches us patience and not to rush to a conclusion. It's really like a journey you take and you have to appreciate the themes and idea rather than individual points. It encourages us to take the Quran as a whole.
Are you Farouk from the Quranist forum? A while ago I used to use that site... some good info on there! Nice to cross paths again.
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Yes I am indeed We're still around in FB. Got a real active group now!
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Yes I am indeed ) We're still around in FB. Got a real active group now!
There were some really interesting posts on that forum. I think it's down now but one about Ramadan and the point that the word "food" is not used. Good to know you're still going! )