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  4. SURA FATIHA IS NOT IN THE "ORIGINAL QURAN"

SURA FATIHA IS NOT IN THE "ORIGINAL QURAN"

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved Questions/Comments on the Quran
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  • N Offline
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    Noon_waalqalami
    wrote on last edited by
    #37

    I am now, for the last time, going to paste for you a passage about this subject, from al-amiyr's discussion on another forum. It may help you if you pay close attention to it, with the intention of seeking the truth insha'allaah;

    Peace farida -- the same al-amiyr's who advocates stoning is in the book?

    did the book or Qur'an command anyone to stone people?

    No the Qur'aan did not but the book (al-kitaab) did.

    I hope you read it carefully and pay attention to every word you can search for the meaning of the Qur?an insaha allaah;
    411
    412 revelation from all_Merciuil The_Most_Merciful
    413 a book/scripture explained its sign Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

    431
    432 and the Book/scripture the clear
    433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

    If you can not see what is right in front of your eyes then we end our discussion right here.

    You can use my translation template although it says exactly the opposite -- that the book is Qur'an!

    OK now we all know what you believe and parrot from your ancestors.

    2563 ... and when address them the ignorant ones they said peace

    411
    412 revelation from The Powerful The Merciful
    413 a book/scripture explained its verses Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

    431
    432 and the book/scripture the clear
    433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

    BTW, I've noticed you have a cult following of this al-amiyr character; one of the worst posters to visit the site.

    Peace

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      farida
      wrote on last edited by
      #38

      Peace farida -- the same al-amiyr's who advocates stoning is in the book?

      Peace

      Peace Nun

      Have you read the Book/al-kitaab to understand details of this ?

      You can use my translation template although it says exactly the opposite -- that the book is Qur'an!

      No I can't, in fact I have altered your's according to my understanding of 'al-kitaab and aayaat'.

      BTW, I've noticed you have a cult following of this al-amiyr character; one of the worst posters to visit the site

      That is your observation not my approach. I will quote my friend here; I suppose we can borrow from the Buddhists' saying about how the teacher appears when the student is ready.
      salaam

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        Mazhar
        wrote on last edited by
        #39

        As you can see from all of the above the Qur'aan is speaking about a book which ALLAAH had sent to the world and the world was never absent from at least the knowledge of the Book (al-kitaab). It is not speaking about the Torah which the Jews have protected like no other book in human history. They have never discarded the Torah behind their backs and nor have they had doubt in it. But it is the Book (al-kitaab) that they have discarded and which they dispute among themselves. Some remnants of the Book(al-kitaab) are found in the kabbalah but not all Jews accept it as there is none to explain it any longer among them as among Christians as among Muslims. The nations are fighting vain battles.

        al-amiyr's type people have all along been there perhaps since 6th BC. They were even there in the days Qur'aan was revealed. They also used to say things for which they had no evidence to support their contention.

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          farida
          wrote on last edited by
          #40

          al-amiyr's type people have all along been there perhaps since 6th BC. They were even there in the days Qur'aan was revealed. They also used to say things for which they had no evidence to support their contention.

          in that case can you put forward your evidence in support of what you say above ? sun

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            Noon_waalqalami
            wrote on last edited by
            #41

            Have you read the Book/al-kitaab to understand details of this ?No I can't, in fact I have altered your's according to my understanding of 'al-kitaab and aayaat'.

            Peace farida -- explain exactly in context what "it" refers to?

            413 a book/scripture explained its verses Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

            432 and the book/scripture the clear
            433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

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              farida
              wrote on last edited by
              #42

              Peace farida -- explain exactly in context what "it" refers to?

              413 a book/scripture explained its verses Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

              432 and the book/scripture the clear
              433 indeed We We made it Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

              Peace Nun

              1. Check properly; does not mean it's verses. Remember to use You can google it. Just make sure you spell it right insha'allaah
              2. Why don't you check the meaning of ? Or study chapter 96 verse 1 of the Qur'aan.
                Once you get to the bottom of these two words you would be in a better positon to argue insha'allaah

              salaam

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                Noon_waalqalami
                wrote on last edited by
                #43
                1. Check properly; does not mean it's verses. Remember to use You can google it. Just make sure you spell it right insha'allaah
                2. Why don't you check the meaning of ? Or study chapter 96 verse 1 of the Qur'aan.
                  Once you get to the bottom of these two words you would be in a better positon to argue insha'allaah

                Peace farida,

                3164 truly from The God over the believers when raised among them messenger from their souls/selves reciting on them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the book and the wisdom and indeed they are of from before surely in misguidance clear

                Not about meaning of ytuhu (verses/signs its) rather that it ties the book to Qur'an.

                413 kitbun/book explained ytuhu/its verses (or its signs if you like) a Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

                Therefore Book = Qur'an

                Likewise...

                432-3 wal-kitbi/and the book the clear; indeed We jaalnhu/We made it (i.e. the book) a Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

                Now do you still agree with al-amiyr that stoning is in the book or Qur'an, since you asked me this once?

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                  farida
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #44

                  Peace Nun

                  1. Check properly; does not mean it's verses. Remember to use You can google it. Just make sure you spell it right insha'allaah
                  2. Why don't you check the meaning of ? Or study chapter 96 verse 1 of the Qur'aan.
                    Once you get to the bottom of these two words you would be in a better positon to argue insha'allaah

                  salaam

                  Before I reply to any post I must correct my mistake above as I was rushing for my dentist appointment when I misspelled it.
                  Arabic or is the Arabic word for evidence, or sign, with an at the beginning.
                  salaam

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                    Noon_waalqalami
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #45

                    Before I reply to any post I must correct my mistake above as I was rushing for my dentist appointment when I misspelled it.
                    Arabic or is the Arabic word for evidence, or sign, with an at the beginning.
                    salaam

                    Peace farida ? again not about verses/signs and you?re purposely being silent on the stoning question?

                    413 a book explained its VERSES Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
                    4144 and if We made it Qur?an of foreign (language) they would say why not explained its VERSES?

                    432 and the book the clear
                    433 indeed We We made it (i.e. the book) Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

                    7516 not move with it your tongue to hasten with it
                    7517 indeed upon Us its collection and its Qur?an/recital
                    7518 so when We recited it so follow its Qur?an/recital
                    7519 furthermore indeed upon Us its explanation

                    It is clear from above VERSES (call them SIGNS if you like) the book is Qur?an and no stoning in the book/Qur?an.

                    Peace

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                      farida
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #46

                      Peace farida,

                      3164 truly from The God over the believers when raised among them messenger from their souls/selves reciting on them His verses and purifying them and teaching them the book and the wisdom and indeed they are of from before surely in misguidance clear

                      Not about meaning of ytuhu (verses/signs its) rather that it ties the book to Qur'an.

                      Therefore Book = Qur'an

                      Likewise...

                      432-3 wal-kitbi/and the book the clear; indeed We jaalnhu/We made it (i.e. the book) a Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

                      Now do you still agree with al-amiyr that stoning is in the book or Qur'an, since you asked me this once?

                      salaam Nun

                      For now I would suggest if you free your mind and adopt more humble attitude you may see how I see it
                      The aayat/sign/symbol/letters tied to the Book/al-kitaab in the Readings/al-Qur'aan

                      413 kitbun/book explained ytuhu/its verses (or its signs if you like) a Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

                      Campare http//corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=Ayy
                      and http//corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=surah
                      You see in one case they have given you choice to use either verse or sign but in the next one they failed to give meaning of surah so maybe you can give me it's translation
                      salaam

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                        Noon_waalqalami
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #47

                        For now I would suggest if you free your mind and adopt more humble attitude you may see how I see it
                        The aayat/sign/symbol/letters tied to the Book/al-kitaab in the Readings/al-Qur'aan

                        Peace -- again not what's being debated; leave untranslated see it still ties the book to Qur'an...

                        413 a book explained ytuhu Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

                        Do you not see that?

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                        • F Offline
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                          farida
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #48

                          Peace farida ? again not about verses/signs and you?re purposely being silent on the stoning question?

                          413 a book explained its VERSES Qur?an Arabic for folk who know
                          4144 and if We made it Qur?an of foreign (language) they would say why not explained its VERSES?

                          432 and the book the clear
                          433 indeed We We made it (i.e. the book) Qur?an Arabic that may use reason

                          7516 not move with it your tongue to hasten with it
                          7517 indeed upon Us its collection and its Qur?an/recital
                          7518 so when We recited it so follow its Qur?an/recital
                          7519 furthermore indeed upon Us its explanation

                          Peace

                          Peace Nun
                          No! I was not purposely being silent on the stoning question, I am at initial stage of learning al-kitaab, so applying 7516 not move with it your tongue to hasten with it
                          Soon I wil be in position to address it insha'allaah.

                          It is clear from above VERSES (call them SIGNS if you like) the book is Qur?an and no stoning in the book/Qur?an.

                          Again please learn to differentiate between al-kitaab and al-Qur'aan only then you will understand what I am saying insha'allaah

                          salaam

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                            Noon_waalqalami
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #49

                            learn to differentiate between al-kitaab and al-Qur'aan only then you will understand what I am saying insha'allaah

                            Peace farida -- the verses clearly tie the book to Qur'an. giveup

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                              farida
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #50

                              Peace -- again not what's being debated; leave untranslated see it still ties the book to Qur'an...

                              413 a book explained ytuhu Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

                              Do you not see that?

                              Of course The Book/al-kitaab revealed /sign/symbols/ letters that makes the Recitation/Reading/al-Qur'aan/the Qur'aan
                              salaam

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                                farida
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #51

                                Peace farida -- the verses clearly tie the book to Qur'an. giveup

                                Peace Nun

                                Please don't give up you are almost there insha'allaah
                                pay attention to this;
                                The Arabic language of the Qur'aan is a detailed explanation of the Book (al-kitaab). The aayaat (the signs and the symblols) which ALLAAH speaks about throughout the Qur'aan. They are what constitutes the writing of the Book (al-kitaab) and the Qur'aan is its Reading/Recitation.

                                salaam

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                                  Noon_waalqalami
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #52

                                  They are what constitutes the writing of the Book (al-kitaab) and the Qur'aan is its Reading/Recitation.

                                  Peace farida, hence they are the same!

                                  413 a book explained ytuhu Qur?an Arabic for folk who know

                                  Do you not see that?

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                                    farida
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #53

                                    Peace farida, hence they are the same!

                                    Peace Nun

                                    I know this much about that you do not give up easily so let?s reflect again without any prejudice;

                                    The Qur'aan is not only a book that one can read but the reading comes from a writing. And this writing of the Qur'aan is not just a hollow nothing but every letter has meaning and in these are the sign of ALLAAH.
                                    I will quote for you brother Alkitab so you know that there are others who do understand and see the two concepts;

                                    8-7 And when allh promised you one of the two parties should be yours, and you were wishing that the one not accoutered should be yours; but allh was desiring to verify / yhk the truth / alhk by His words / klmth, and to cut off cut off the roots of the Unbelievers

                                    they wined them by "word's of allh / klmt allh " , mean allh made by his words / klmt the physical possibilities at the external and internal level that lead to the victory prepared and available to the believers to win

                                    In the other hand the "allh's speech / klam allh " is the recited order / judgement / explanations, that people should reflect upon and follow at the social level.http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604789.270
                                    Please pay attention it starts with our mind; the war to defeat ShayTan, & how terrified ShayTan and his allies are that we get the knowleget to crush them insha'allaah

                                    salaam

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                                      Noon_waalqalami
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #54

                                      The Qur'aan is not only a book that one can read but the reading comes from a writing.

                                      Peace farida -- there you wrote it again, Qur'an is the book!

                                      http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604789.270
                                      Please pay attention it starts with our mind; the war to defeat ShayTan, & how terrified ShayTan and his allies are that we get the knowleget to crush them insha'allaah

                                      What?

                                      There are no coherent thoughts in that thread; the guy promotes stoning, says it's in the book; into ancestor worship.
                                      We get one of these delusional Mahdi numerologist characters pop out of the internet bushes every six months or so.

                                      Peace

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                                        farida
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #55

                                        Peace farida -- there you wrote it again, Qur'an is the book!

                                        Peace

                                        Peace Nun
                                        So are you saying that The People of the Book (?ahl_ul_kitaab) received and follow al-Qur'aan?

                                        What?

                                        Yes if you pay attention you'll find that all war's start in the mind. Even this exchange of posts between me and you is a battle of minds, as one of us thinks too highly of his own intelligence and refuses to see the other's point, or simply discards it as nonsense. Time will tell who will stick to what s/he holds as god and who will submit insha'allaah.

                                        There are no coherent thoughts in that thread; the guy promotes stoning, says it's in the book; into ancestor worship.

                                        Maybe you are too busy to read those threads properly; as you can see from many others who have read his posts sincerely, they are finding truth there

                                        We get one of these delusional Mahdi numerologist characters pop out of the internet bushes every six months or so.

                                        You know he has not even started expounding on numerology, yet you have made up your mind already, so what can I say except giveup

                                        salaam

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                                        • M Offline
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                                          Mazhar
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #56

                                          Salam,

                                          The Qur'aan is not only a book that one can read but the reading comes from a writing.

                                          Perhaps this scholarly quote is borrowed from alamyr.

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