Can Adam/Even be a metaphor?
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Peace,
One thing does not always have to rule out another. The other world surely still needs to be created, but by reading some other verses it reveals that there is a certain part which needs to be in existence already. I have thought about High Heaven or those who are very close to God are already in place by now. But considered the state of God's religion both now and in the past this place seems to be reserved for a very small portion of Believers, probably fewer than one can fathom.
God will surely create the rest as stated in kgwithnob's verses. I believe like that for most part.
Anyway, this is my interpretation through careful study and logical deduction. It started with inconsistency as whether Paradise is already in existence or not, it seemed to indicate both cases, but later I discovered these two places in Heaven need to be treated separately. There was no contradiction in Quran (as I anticipated).
God bless you
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Sorry for the delay. My bad. ;D
3133,
Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous.
5721,Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of Heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers that is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He pleases and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.
The above two verses inform us that the paradise will be as big as the whole creation. This paradise cannot exist now because there is ZERO room for it if it is going to be as big as the whole creation. It will be created through the process of evolution in the future and is going to replace the present Universe.
The following verse tell us that this Universe will end and a new one will come out of it.
21104,The Day that we roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed) even as We produced the first Creation, so shall We produce a new one a promise We have undertaken truly shall We fulfill it.
Verse 2920 tells us to go and find out how the creation started, then afterwards GOD will create the Hereafter.
Say "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation so will Allah produce a later creation for Allah has power over all things.
And, 5347,
And that upon Him is to bringing out the last creation.
Peace,
KhalilNo problem brother! I was speaking with a sister about the inconsistencies with the miraaj tale and the Quran, and this influenced me to research for evident verses. It's very kind of you to bring these verses to my attention.
However, can we be certain that the later creation is the same Paradise Allah promises to believers? I believe other verses in the Quran speak about Paradise that Allah "has prepared" signifying past tense. Is this a translation issue, or does it match with the Arabic grammatical structure?
With peace.
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Peace family,
We must be careful when dealing with time.
We already know that heaven exists because our parents resided there.
But hell may not exist yet.
Surah AN-NAZIAT (79) appears to be a surah that contains future events or a different
understanding of time.Sura 69, Incontestable (Al-Haaqqah)
The earth and the mountains will be carried off and crushed; utterly crushed.
That is the day when the inevitable event will come to pass.
The heaven will crack, and fall apart.
The angels will be all around, and Your Lord's dominion will then encompass eight.
Sura 89, Dawn (Al-Fajr)
And your Lord comes, together with the angels in row after row.
On that day, Gehenna will be brought forth. On that day, the human being
will remember, but what a remembrance, it will be too late.All have a blessed ramadan.
peace
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Sorry for the delay. My bad. ;D
3133,
Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous.
5721,Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of Heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers that is the Grace of Allah which He bestows on whom He pleases and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.
The above two verses inform us that the paradise will be as big as the whole creation. This paradise cannot exist now because there is ZERO room for it if it is going to be as big as the whole creation. It will be created through the process of evolution in the future and is going to replace the present Universe.
The following verse tell us that this Universe will end and a new one will come out of it.
21104,The Day that we roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed) even as We produced the first Creation, so shall We produce a new one a promise We have undertaken truly shall We fulfill it.
Verse 2920 tells us to go and find out how the creation started, then afterwards GOD will create the Hereafter.
Say "Travel through the earth and see how Allah did originate creation so will Allah produce a later creation for Allah has power over all things.
And, 5347,
And that upon Him is to bringing out the last creation.
Peace,
Khalil
[/quoteThe first two verses say prepared for muttiqeen in past tense confused
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...the Quran speak about Paradise that Allah "has prepared" signifying past tense...
Time and time again in The Qur'aan, GOD speaks in past tense for most future events especially the events of the Hereafter. This goes back to the fact that since ALLAAH, swt, is Omniscient, He, in His infinite knowledge, sees the future events as if they have come to pass. See for example chapter 744-50 in the Qur'aan regarding events of the judgment day.
Peace,
Khalil -
Time and time again in The Qur'aan, GOD speaks in past tense for most future events especially the events of the Hereafter. This goes back to the fact that since ALLAAH, swt, is Omniscient, He, in His infinite knowledge, sees the future events as if they have come to pass. See for example chapter 744-50 in the Qur'aan regarding events of the judgment day.
Peace,
KhalilThat's what I believed, and I agree. I also wonder, is God beyond the boundaries of the universe? (ie is He in a different dimension?) In this way, He is beyond not only space, but time, so the dimensional approach makes both past and future irrelevant with respect to God.
Thank you brother,
With peace. -
That's what I believed, and I agree. I also wonder, is God beyond the boundaries of the universe? (ie is He in a different dimension?) In this way, He is beyond not only space, but time, so the dimensional approach makes both past and future irrelevant with respect to God.
Thank you brother,
With peace.highlight is from me.
2255 informs us that GOD's footstool/KORSIY is bigger than the whole creation, let alone the size of His THRONE. So, there is no place that GOD is not present. GOD is Omnipresent. there is not a spot in the Universe that GOD is absent.
Peace,
Khalil -
highlight is from me.
2255 informs us that GOD's footstool/KORSIY is bigger than the whole creation, let alone the size of His THRONE. So, there is no place that GOD is not present. GOD is Omnipresent. there is not a spot in the Universe that GOD is absent.
Peace,
KhalilAgreed
Peace Family,
God created time, science, math and even the consciousness that we use to gain
perspectives about everything else, and God is not bound by any of it.God is Al-Badi
All have a blessed ramadan
O0
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highlight is from me.
2255 informs us that GOD's footstool/KORSIY is bigger than the whole creation, let alone the size of His THRONE. So, there is no place that GOD is not present. GOD is Omnipresent. there is not a spot in the Universe that GOD is absent.
Peace,
KhalilIf God's footstool is in a separate dimension, it can still be larger without being present within our universe. Is this plausible? ie There doesn't necessarily have to be overlap between His footstool and all of His creation, even if His footstool is larger than the creations.
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If God's footstool is in a separate dimension, it can still be larger without being present within our universe. Is this plausible? ie There doesn't necessarily have to be overlap between His footstool and all of His creation, even if His footstool is larger than the creations.
There isn't any "SEPARATE DIMENSION". Footstool/Korsiy is an allegorical example. The verse 2255 informs us that GOD Himself is much bigger than the whole Universe and that the creation is only a tiny part of GOD's kingdom.
Peace,
Khalil -
The first two verses say prepared for muttiqeen in past tense confused
Peace,
Correct! When Allah said in past tense, it is past. Every word in alQuraan is set for our understanding, not as per what Allah sees it. AlQuraan is a guidance for us, not for Allah. So, everything mentioned in it is as it is.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
Correct! When Allah said in past tense, it is past. Every word in alQuraan is set for our understanding, not as per what Allah sees it. AlQuraan is a guidance for us, not for Allah. So, everything mentioned in it is as it is.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanHowever, verses 744-50 are speaking about a future event while using past tense...
And mmkhan, where in the Quran does it say that Allah exists within this universe? There are about 10 dimensions as per string theory. My point is just to say that saying something is bigger doesn't necessarily mean it is overlapping/engulfing the smaller creation. God can be above/beyond His own kingdom, can't He? I guess it's silly but I don't think God is also on the ground I walk on or at the garbage dump, nor in my digestive tract. P
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However, verses 744-50 are speaking about a future event while using past tense...
Peace brother,
Does this make sense to you? Allah GUIDING His creation by speaking a future even using past tenses? Sorry bro, I disagree. I am sure you did not read the link about jannat that I gave you earlier on this thread. Read it and tally with 744-50, inshaAllah you will understand how perfectly Allah speaks, alhamduliAllah.
And mmkhan, where in the Quran does it say that Allah exists within this universe? There are about 10 dimensions as per string theory. My point is just to say that saying something is bigger doesn't necessarily mean it is overlapping/engulfing the smaller creation. God can be above/beyond His own kingdom, can't He? I guess it's silly but I don't think God is also on the ground I walk on or at the garbage dump, nor in my digestive tract. P
My reply Novice is not on this.. )
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace brother,
Does this make sense to you? Allah GUIDING His creation by speaking a future even using past tenses? Sorry bro, I disagree. I am sure you did not read the link about jannat that I gave you earlier on this thread. Read it and tally with 744-50, inshaAllah you will understand how perfectly Allah speaks, alhamduliAllah.
My reply Novice is not on this.. )May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanIt does make sense to me, given that space/time is a property of our universe in the third dimension; given that God "knows the future," it is quite sensible to be able to interchange these issues. It is reinforced in the sense that speaking about it in the past tense signifies its definitive nature, but these are mere reflections; I will read more into the other link.
Salaamun alayka bro,
And as per reality reality?
Salaam,
BenderMany people fail to distinguish between the layman's usage of "theory" and the scientific definition of the word "theory." I am referring to the scientific theory known as string theory.
Peace be with you all.
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The actual reality of things with Allah (god) is as such you can never ever try to comprehend it because you don't possess the mind to do it.
for eg.When Moses met Kidhr when they were on the boat a bird dipped his beak into the ocean and Kidhr asked Moses "did u see that" Moses
said "yes"Kidhr then said "the amount of water displaced from the beak of that bird and the drop of water that fell back into the ocean is the same knowledge we posses and the ocean is like that of what Allah Possess" another example is thisAllah knows what has happened,is happening,what is going to happen and what would have happened had it happened and its different out comes..this is a arabic saying.
So to me think about dimensions and things y it serves no purpose as my mind is so small i cant even go there. -
It does make sense to me, given that space/time is a property of our universe in the third dimension; given that God "knows the future," it is quite sensible to be able to interchange these issues. It is reinforced in the sense that speaking about it in the past tense signifies its definitive nature, but these are mere reflections; I will read more into the other link.
Peace,
Sorry to say I disagree. We should not forget that alQuraan is a guide for all 2185, what you said above is not possible for majority of people to reflect on.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
Sorry to say I disagree. We should not forget that alQuraan is a guide for all 2185, what you said above is not possible for majority of people to reflect on.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanMy brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
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The actual reality of things with Allah (god) is as such you can never ever try to comprehend it because you don't possess the mind to do it.
for eg.When Moses met Kidhr when they were on the boat a bird dipped his beak into the ocean and Kidhr asked Moses "did u see that" Moses
said "yes"Kidhr then said "the amount of water displaced from the beak of that bird and the drop of water that fell back into the ocean is the same knowledge we posses and the ocean is like that of what Allah Possess" another example is thisAllah knows what has happened,is happening,what is going to happen and what would have happened had it happened and its different out comes..this is a arabic saying.
So to me think about dimensions and things y it serves no purpose as my mind is so small i cant even go there.My brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
I completely agree, but these matters of further reflection aren't necessary for guidance. I think the core principles of the Quran are clear and easy to understand - do good works, believe in one God, believe in the Last Day, etc. - I believe those are sufficient for success (refer to 262, a beautiful verse, as are they all!).
I just enjoy pondering and reflecting upon the book which is important, as well, and the book does require reflection and thought. I completely agree we do not possess even the slightest fraction of knowledge compared to Allah, but it does not mean we should not seek to learn that which we can. I understand the idea that thinking about this sort of thing is rather futile, but I must admit I am very critical of faith and I want to observe through every possible lens what is before me. I want to simply ask questions and see what others say, not to assume I presume I know anything, because I literally don't know much anything at all
I have learned so many great things from you great brothers and sisters on this site. I used to have a great difficulty accepting Adam due to the careless translations I've read (placing him in heaven, for example, in the story of the tree); thus I could only accept him as a symbol/persona, but now I am able to comfortably believe in him due to the careful analysis and help I received here. Alhamdulillah, thank you all.
I do agree string theory is not possible for the majority of people to reflect upon, including myself. I simply acknowledge its core ideas and find them absolutely fascinating and worth exploring. I am a stern believer in the separation of religion and science, but it does not mean science cannot enlighten us in how we understand our own faith, even our scripture. For example, Surah Alaq's mistranslation ("blood clot" is due to lack of understanding of embryology. Now, I have read better translations which replace this with "hanging/clinging thing." Science in this way helps us to understand which meaning is correct for multiple-meaning words.
Anyway, I don't know, I personally could not myself believe "God is everywhere" - it made much more sense to me to believe that He was above/beyond His creation God, being so pure, I could not imagine being present within our realm of corruption and filth.
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I am referring to the scientific theory known as string theory.
Peace be with you all.
Salaamun alayka,
And I was referring to reality.
Except when you think that the string theory is the reality, then I was asking the wrong question to the wrong person.Salaam,
Bender