Can Adam/Even be a metaphor?
-
The actual reality of things with Allah (god) is as such you can never ever try to comprehend it because you don't possess the mind to do it.
for eg.When Moses met Kidhr when they were on the boat a bird dipped his beak into the ocean and Kidhr asked Moses "did u see that" Moses
said "yes"Kidhr then said "the amount of water displaced from the beak of that bird and the drop of water that fell back into the ocean is the same knowledge we posses and the ocean is like that of what Allah Possess" another example is thisAllah knows what has happened,is happening,what is going to happen and what would have happened had it happened and its different out comes..this is a arabic saying.
So to me think about dimensions and things y it serves no purpose as my mind is so small i cant even go there. -
It does make sense to me, given that space/time is a property of our universe in the third dimension; given that God "knows the future," it is quite sensible to be able to interchange these issues. It is reinforced in the sense that speaking about it in the past tense signifies its definitive nature, but these are mere reflections; I will read more into the other link.
Peace,
Sorry to say I disagree. We should not forget that alQuraan is a guide for all 2185, what you said above is not possible for majority of people to reflect on.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhan -
Peace,
Sorry to say I disagree. We should not forget that alQuraan is a guide for all 2185, what you said above is not possible for majority of people to reflect on.
May Allah bless you pr
mmKhanMy brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
-
The actual reality of things with Allah (god) is as such you can never ever try to comprehend it because you don't possess the mind to do it.
for eg.When Moses met Kidhr when they were on the boat a bird dipped his beak into the ocean and Kidhr asked Moses "did u see that" Moses
said "yes"Kidhr then said "the amount of water displaced from the beak of that bird and the drop of water that fell back into the ocean is the same knowledge we posses and the ocean is like that of what Allah Possess" another example is thisAllah knows what has happened,is happening,what is going to happen and what would have happened had it happened and its different out comes..this is a arabic saying.
So to me think about dimensions and things y it serves no purpose as my mind is so small i cant even go there.My brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
I completely agree, but these matters of further reflection aren't necessary for guidance. I think the core principles of the Quran are clear and easy to understand - do good works, believe in one God, believe in the Last Day, etc. - I believe those are sufficient for success (refer to 262, a beautiful verse, as are they all!).
I just enjoy pondering and reflecting upon the book which is important, as well, and the book does require reflection and thought. I completely agree we do not possess even the slightest fraction of knowledge compared to Allah, but it does not mean we should not seek to learn that which we can. I understand the idea that thinking about this sort of thing is rather futile, but I must admit I am very critical of faith and I want to observe through every possible lens what is before me. I want to simply ask questions and see what others say, not to assume I presume I know anything, because I literally don't know much anything at all
I have learned so many great things from you great brothers and sisters on this site. I used to have a great difficulty accepting Adam due to the careless translations I've read (placing him in heaven, for example, in the story of the tree); thus I could only accept him as a symbol/persona, but now I am able to comfortably believe in him due to the careful analysis and help I received here. Alhamdulillah, thank you all.
I do agree string theory is not possible for the majority of people to reflect upon, including myself. I simply acknowledge its core ideas and find them absolutely fascinating and worth exploring. I am a stern believer in the separation of religion and science, but it does not mean science cannot enlighten us in how we understand our own faith, even our scripture. For example, Surah Alaq's mistranslation ("blood clot" is due to lack of understanding of embryology. Now, I have read better translations which replace this with "hanging/clinging thing." Science in this way helps us to understand which meaning is correct for multiple-meaning words.
Anyway, I don't know, I personally could not myself believe "God is everywhere" - it made much more sense to me to believe that He was above/beyond His creation God, being so pure, I could not imagine being present within our realm of corruption and filth.
-
I am referring to the scientific theory known as string theory.
Peace be with you all.
Salaamun alayka,
And I was referring to reality.
Except when you think that the string theory is the reality, then I was asking the wrong question to the wrong person.Salaam,
Bender -
THINK.
Is there an ayat in the Quran which signifies that the God forbid us from thinking? Or warn us not to ponder upon His creations (His ayats) in the heavens and the earth and within us?
On the other hand, there are hundreds of ayats which the God command/suggest to think/ponder/observe/study/reflect/use reason/intelligence.
What happens if let say one day a scientist discovers a method to decode and read one?s records of deeds from his/her DNA? Also, from that we are able to discover our origins scientifically. There will be a time when man become submitters in throngs. Thereupon some will remain as disbelievers.
Those who fear Allah mainly are ulemas (scientists).There must be a reason to observe/discover/believe/feel/act. Think.
Peace to all.
Zone.
-
My brother I'm not debating weather or not there is a possibility but the mere fact the this knowledge is futile because its not comprehendible
Agreed
Peace ajiboghareeb21,
Surah 18/60-82 speaks of hidden realities that God has permitted us to know.
Blessed ramadan to all!
peace
-
Anyway, I don't know, I personally could not myself believe "God is everywhere" - it made much more sense to me to believe that He was above/beyond His creation God, being so pure, I could not imagine being present within our realm of corruption and filth.
highlights are from me
From my understanding of various verses of The Qur?aan , I?ve come to believe that GOD is Infinite in size, Omnipotent, Omnipresent, and Omniscient. He is the PERMEATING force of the whole Universe and beyond. The ?realm of corruption and filth? is only our materialistic measurement and understanding of how unGODly we can get, and that is because Satan is tempting and enticing us constantly. The said human measures and understandings do not have anything to do with the way GOD approaches his creation.
And yes, GOD is PURE. In fact He is the absolute purity, so pure that He permeates through the whole creation (both subatomic and intergalactic). He fills the whole creation and beyond. That is why He is OMNIPRESENT. As the matter of fact one of His beautiful names is PURE or LATEEF in Arabic. See verse 3116. Also see verses 5016 and 5683-85 to see how close GOD is to us.
Peace,
Khalil -
This is a very interesting topic. I have learnt much from everyone. My take is that I completely agree with brother khalil(kgwithnob)
230 And when your Lord said to the angels, "Indeed, I will make upon the earth a successive authority." They said, "Will You place upon it one who causes corruption therein and sheds blood, while we declare Your praise and sanctify You?" Allah said, "Indeed, I know that which you do not know."
From this verse, we understand that Adam was destined for earth.
235 And We said, "O Adam, dwell, you and your wife, in Paradise and eat therefrom in abundance from wherever you will. But do not approach this tree, lest you be among the wrongdoers."
A few verses later, God put Adam and his wife in Paradise instead of earth. Did Allah change his mind? What would have happened if Adam did not eat the apple? This has always been an intrigue for me and sounds a bit fishy...unless the paradise was on earth. For me, the episode of the apple was the litmus test for free will. When Adam ate the apple and disobeyed God, hominids attain free will (after a lond period of evolution that Quran and Science confirm) and become accountable. Adam was thus the first accountable man.
-
I reckon the apple story is biblical. Nevertheless , what I understood, Adam did disobey God, may be by approaching the tree which he was not suppose to, whether the tree was real or allegorical. It's nice to have eveyone's opinion. As I said, this has long intrigued me.
-
I reckon the apple story is biblical. Nevertheless , what I understood, Adam did disobey God, may be by approaching the tree which he was not suppose to, whether the tree was real or allegorical. It's nice to have eveyone's opinion. As I said, this has long intrigued me.
The Qur?aan says, after they ate from the forbidden tree they lost their natural garments (clothing, covering, fur). Then they started to cover themselves with the leaves of the forest/garden. Afterwards they had to gradually migrate, climbing down to lower grounds and warmer climates for having no protection (clothing) against the cold of the higher altitudes of the mountainous forest.
236,
Then did Satan make them slip from it and get them out of what they were in. We said "Get ye down all with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling place and your means of livelihood for a time."
Eating from the forbidden tree must have had an ADVERSE and IRREVERSIBLE side effect on their body, i.e. causing them to permanently shed their thick natural protecting fur.
Peace,
Khalil -
peace all
if Allah tell us about Adam, then it has its relevance even today and hereafter, a sign in every one of our lives.
these posts seem some relevance to the topic discussed.
Touch not the timber reply # 7 in http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605160.0
reply # 79 page 8. http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9604771.70
peace
-
Salaamun alayka,
And I was referring to reality.
Except when you think that the string theory is the reality, then I was asking the wrong question to the wrong person.Salaam,
BenderPeace be with you. I do not declare it as definite reality, but I dare not reject the theories, neither. This is a very interesting theory developed and reinforced through very meticulous work by the sharpest minds of our time, I personally think it's extraordinary. However, I did not mean to offend you brother. Forgive me if I did.
I have accepted that Adam is real based on the correct translations I've learned from here. The simple tweak from "Paradise" to "garden" and "earth" to "land" made a huge difference in understanding the story.
As far as where God is, I think it's quite interesting. I can understand omnipresence as being a very valid method of thinking about God, and it makes a lot of sense.
Very interesting )
-
Peace be with you. I do not declare it as definite reality, but I dare not reject the theories, neither. This is a very interesting theory developed and reinforced through very meticulous work by the sharpest minds of our time, I personally think it's extraordinary. However, I did not mean to offend you brother. Forgive me if I did.
I have accepted that Adam is real based on the correct translations I've learned from here. The simple tweak from "Paradise" to "garden" and "earth" to "land" made a huge difference in understanding the story.
As far as where God is, I think it's quite interesting. I can understand omnipresence as being a very valid method of thinking about God, and it makes a lot of sense.
Very interesting )
Let me try and enlighten u on the story of ADam This is the true story of ADam peace be upon him
Before everything Allah created the pen this pen wrote everything that is to happen till qiyamah.After that were the bin kind which roamed the earth causing destruction,thus Allah Created the Jin of which the devil known as Azazil was part off, they destroyed the bin and the devil was a good worshipper of Allah some narrations make mention of there being not a single place on earth that he did not prostrate to Allah.
Then Allah created Adam (A.S) Allah says in the Quran he created Adam in his Image of which this statement is also in the bible of which the christians take as being that Allah created Adam to likelihood of God himself which in islam is totally wrong.What is meant by this statement is that Allah Created Adam in Adams complete image not Allah himself,in other words Adam being already full grown up not being a baby like today.Allah mentions different soils which were used to create him Dust ,clay ,sand ,dark clay these were all used to create Adam (A.S).Allah mentions in the Quran similar to that of pottery,why did Allah say similar to that of pottery because for pottery heat is used but here in the creation of Adam there was no heat used.Allah says we thought him the names of everything,and the devil was looking at this half formed creature and was getting jealous already, so he entered at the nose of Adam still not alive and inspected the creation and saw that the stomach of Adam was hollow and when he saw that he knew he could control this creature,then Allah blew the soul into his soul into this clay like creature known as Adam and the clay started turning to flesh and blood started to flow and Mashallah Adam A.S opened his eyes and stated to look around and infront of him he saw the fruits of Jannah and before his feet could come alive he already tried to move foward to grab the fruit and Allah says "man was always in a hurry" Allahu Akbar and Adam knew already what fruit were and what was all around because Allah say we thought him the names of everything imagine this fully grown man about 18m high & has full knowledge didn't have to go to school,the angels were amazed Adam could tell them this is a tree,this is a flower,this is my eyes....Allahu akbar .Allah then as you asked all creation to prostrate to him and all did except the devil.Why because the devil had pride,what pride did he have? the pride that he thought he was better ,he thought he was holier and more pious than Adam and that he was out of fire and Adam Clay.In short we know what happens,The devil was cast out and given respite to lead the children of ADam astray.Then Adam was told not to eat from the tree and the devil deceived him like he does till today to all of us.And Adam (A.S) ate from the tree and imediately Adam (A.S) began to take notice of his private parts and became ashamed and then realised he had done something wrong it is important to mention the Hawa (EVE) was with him but i did not mention her story,both there private parts were showing and till today when u eat Haram you feel like uncovering a little you don't get peace till u show your hair your body...Allah save us.Adam & haw a was cast out of heaven and Allah say that he was Fogetful Adam did not intend on sinning but out of forgetfulness he sinned thats why the word "Insaan" is derived from the arabic word "Nisyaan' Meaning Forgetful Allah says man is always forgetful so when they realise and remember they have wronged they should turn to me and ask for forgiveness.This is also stressed when Allah took out all of creation from Adam (A.S) back till qiyamah,myself & your self were there and Allah Asked all of us "who is you Lord?" and we all replied you are our Lord and Allah said don't Come on the day of qiyamah saying anything else remember you covenant with us today and if you forget we will those unto earth to remind you.This is just some of the story of Adam may Allah Grant us all Goodness. Inshallahwslm
-
Peace be with you. I do not declare it as definite reality, but I dare not reject the theories, neither. This is a very interesting theory developed and reinforced through very meticulous work by the sharpest minds of our time, I personally think it's extraordinary. However, I did not mean to offend you brother. Forgive me if I did.
I have accepted that Adam is real based on the correct translations I've learned from here. The simple tweak from "Paradise" to "garden" and "earth" to "land" made a huge difference in understanding the story.
As far as where God is, I think it's quite interesting. I can understand omnipresence as being a very valid method of thinking about God, and it makes a lot of sense.
Very interesting )
salaamun alayka bro,
You did not offend me at all, in fact i was afraid that my tone was a bit harsh (
I agree that scientific theories can be very interesting and intriguing, but I think it is important to make a destiction between a theory and reality.
Just to give an example, you can have 2 totally different scientific theories with different methods which both give the same results.In short a scientific theory can be very usefull to calculate and predict an outcome of an phenomenon but there can be a HUGE difference between a scientific theory and what really happens.
Salaam,
Bender -
salaamun alayka bro,
You did not offend me at all, in fact i was afraid that my tone was a bit harsh
I agree that scientific theories can be very interesting and intriguing, but I think it is important to make a destiction between a theory and reality.
Just to give an example, you can have 2 totally different scientific theories with different methods which both give the same results.In short a scientific theory can be very usefull to calculate and predict an outcome of an phenomenon but there can be a HUGE difference between a scientific theory and what really happens.
Salaam,
BenderWalaykum assalam,
Very good points brother. The important characteristics of a scientific theory are that they explain some aspect of the natural world/universe through evidence and facts. As such, for example, gravity is still considered a theory by scientific terms, as is the atom, even the cell. We don't say these theories are not realities simply because of the word "theory" which has been abused through common vernacular and misuse of the term. In science, theory is a very specific stage of development of a series of facts intended to describe a particular natural phenomenon. Now, I haven't looked into string theory all that much, and from what I know, it's more related to physics and mathematics. You're absolutely right that it could be different from reality, but I myself cannot be so quick to lean towards that proposition, because my mind is far less capable of understanding than the adherents and researchers (such as Michio Kaku) who study it. This, however, is my subjective position.
Peace be with you )