Worship Allah and not the Quran
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Dangerous grounds.
But the premise that the qur'an states that there is no God, is incorrect, it clearly states otherwise.
But..
It is correct that God can not be described, not even by the word God.
It is correct that any concept you may have about God, is deficient, and thus, wrong.
It is even correct that the non religious, even the atheist, is often nearer to God than many religious people, cause a non-religious person often has a 'clean slate' on this subject and is sceptic and critical, which are very big virtues most religious people dont possess, and even reject.
It is true the qur'an is a guide, but no book of law. You say the book is about us and your duty, no that is a simplification. Before everything, it is about introducing people to the existence of God.
Strictly spoken, we don't know anything, but what we can know, is that there is a God. The standpoint that there is no, is untenable.
Salam
So it is wrong to believe that "Nor is there to Him any equivalent" (1124) and the teaching of the Qur'an is followed (refer to definition).
Why?
Peace
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All things are created but it is ridiculous to assume that Muhammad can create "makhluq" through his speech (the Qur'an).
Further, why are you making personal assumptions on my behalf?
Is this how you make your point?
You did not answer my question, is the Prophet (sawa) infallible?
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Islam is a religion, therefore the book is a religious book.
Islam is a religion, cause its a proclamation of Gods existence.
The quran is a religious book, cause its islams scripture.
Salam
Can you prove your conclusion from the ayat in the Qur'an?
Peace.
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Your historiography is fictitious.
It comes from your book, Ummayad supporters yuck
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Firstly i did not mention that Arabic was the language of Allah All-Mighty
So you agree that it is created. Talking about our school, the school of Ahlul Bayt, your sect did not exist at ALL throughout history.. rotfl
Unless you imply that you are mutazillite. The Mutazili scholars also relied on ahadith from the Sunni (ie we call 'amma) sources.
Next question, do you believe that our Master Mustafa (sawa) is infallible?
And on another note to give divinity to a created book is shirk and you worship the Quran
U are ignorant on the subject of islamic history. The mu'tazilites were not the first to claim that the quran is the only source of authority in islam.
You say that mutazili scholars also relied on sunni hadiths. This is a mistake.
Mutazili scholars did NOT 'rely' on hadiths, some of them 'used' them as historical or social references and only in legal contexts.
This is because the mutazilites methodology towards perceiving the world and processing knowledge, was fundamentally different from traditionalists.
The greatest mutazilite, Ibrahim al Nazzam, was claimed to have been a very strict quranic muslim, implementing the sola-scriptura methodology.
Except some minor groups, no mutazilite ever would give the hadiths religious relevance.
Later on, mutazilites would slowly be influenced by sunni and shia thought, due to pressing political reasons.
The mutazilites you assume to know, are no mutazilites. They are the product of sunni and shia polemics about the mutazilites.
Check
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9605045.msg337497#msg337497
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Firstly i did not mention that Arabic was the language of Allah All-Mighty
So you agree that it is created. Talking about our school, the school of Ahlul Bayt, your sect did not exist at ALL throughout history.. rotfl
Unless you imply that you are mutazillite. The Mutazili scholars also relied on ahadith from the Sunni (ie we call 'amma) sources.
Next question, do you believe that our Master Mustafa (sawa) is infallible?
And on another note to give divinity to a created book is shirk and you worship the Quran
No human is infallible.
Worship Qur'an?
Please go back to English school and learn what the word worship means.
Where in the Qur'an does it say there are humans that are infallible?
Our sect never existed throughout history?
Do you know a Sunni imam named Al Shafi? He debated and opposed people who only took and believed Qur'an alone as God's guidance.Your Shia folks glorify Ali, Hussein, Muawiya, Fatima. It is enough to call it is a form of idol-worship.
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Salam
So it is wrong to believe that "Nor is there to Him any equivalent" (1124) and the teaching of the Qur'an is followed (refer to definition).
Why?
Peace
It is wrong to believe that 'nor is there to Him any equivalent', is capable of defining God. It is correct as a statement.
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It comes from your book, Ummayad supporters yuck
Lets state it comes from 'my book', how come u as a shia hold on to that historiography?
As for your reaction, I have nothing to do with Ummayad supporters.
You do. Even more than you think. Your whole shia doctrine is defined by interaction with the ahl al-hadith, and it wasn't chrystallized until well into the 18th century.
How about that?
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No human is infallible.
Worship Qur'an?
Please go back to English school and learn what the word worship means.
Where in the Qur'an does it say there are humans that are infallible?
Our sect never existed throughout history?
Do you know a Sunni imam named Al Shafi? He debated and opposed people who only took and believed Qur'an alone as God's guidance.Your Shia folks glorify Ali, Hussein, Muawiya, Fatima. It is enough to call it is a form of idol-worship.
You are wasting your time on people like him
Shia sources also talk about the quran-only methodology, like the Tabaqat of Yahya ibn al Murtada.
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Salam,
So.. what is Allah?
Peace.
We don't know.
We can only philosophize about the creation, and induce that according to our comprehension of nature, it points out to the necessity of nature to be the result of the existence of God.
Before I moderated the text, I said 'God must exist', which is wrong. God isn't bound to any necessity.
God is and God is not, are identical truths (provided that no dogma follows the equation), but God is even 'elevated' above this statement.
Which makes 'atheism' impossible.
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Asalamualaikum sword of tashayyu,
You are not answering the question, making false assumptions on others and keep diverting from one issue into the others.
First you ask..
what is your view of the Quran is it eternal word of Allah or is it Makhluq (created being)?
This is a really weird question.
Everyone here knows that the Qur'an is a hadith.
It is the speech of Muhammad
It is Muhammad's words, and the message of AllahArabic is not the actual language of Allah (cf. Bible, Torah etc.)
There is no way it can be the actual words of Allah or a Makhluq.
Muhammad is not a "Creator"
and no one knows the nature of the revelations (whether it is in words etc)Therefore, there is no issue that the Arabic Qur'an is the eternal word of Allah or a Makhluq.
It is merely a guidance in the language of Quraish tribes.
Human language!
Simple!For this reason, I asked you
Since when Arabic is the actual language of Allah?
What is your answer?
Firstly i did not mention that Arabic was the language of Allah All-Mighty
So you agree that it is created. Talking about our school, the school of Ahlul Bayt, your sect did not exist at ALL throughout history.. rotfl
Unless you imply that you are mutazillite. The Mutazili scholars also relied on ahadith from the Sunni (ie we call 'amma) sources.
Next question, do you believe that our Master Mustafa (sawa) is infallible?
And on another note to give divinity to a created book is shirk and you worship the Quran
I don't know what is so funny about my question.
and we can see that you provide no answer, and instead
You are making personal assumptions on my behalf
Claiming things I have never said
and diverting from the real issueMaybe you don't understand the issue
Therefore, I make clear the issue so that you may understand our discussion.All things are created but it is ridiculous to assume that Muhammad can create "makhluq" through his speech (the Qur'an).
What is your reply?
You did not answer my question, is the Prophet (sawa) infallible?
You divert from the issue and making another set of question.
Are you capable of understanding the issue and point of our discussion?
Peace.
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We don't know.
Salam,
Exactly! (read here, Why Allah is not God?)
To claim Allah is "God" means to set in our mind that there is God in Islam, God in Christianity, God in Hinduism, God in Buddhism... and Allah is one of those Gods, the only one true God.
Is this Shirk?
Nor is there to Him any equivalent <- including the concept of "God", it is not equivalent!
(1124)Further, the Qur'an is a book about us and other living creatures.
It is about the Deen of Islam and fulfillment of our duty.
Quite simply, it is a book all about us, discussing our creation, purpose, history, spirituality, psyche, life's big questions, justice, governance etc. It is a guide on how to realise our potential, individually and collectively, if one chooses to seek this path; http//www.misconceptions-about-islam.com/more.htm
(The objective of Allah's command in its context is related to the importance of successorship. So as the Qur'an, where almost the whole content is about humanity and other living creatures on earth; ie. successorship. The Qur'an is not about Allah, but it is about His creations.)
Peace.
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Salam,
Exactly! (read here, Why Allah is not God?)
To claim Allah is "God" means to set in our mind that there is God in Islam, God in Christian, God in Hinduism, God in Buddhism... and Allah is one of those Gods, the only one true God. Is this Shirk?
Further, the Qur'an is a book about us and other living creatures.
It is about the Deen of Islam and fulfillment of our duty.
Peace.
Allah is only a reference to 'God', but so is the word 'God'.
The truth of the matter, is that in fact we can not say anything, not even utter the concept, cause even that would become subject to our own limitations.
Stating (I dont believe in claiming) that 'Allah is God', is confusing and fallacious. Is it fallacious to confuse, or is it confusing because its fallacious?
To ease it up for the sake of problem solving, this statement is acceptable only if we are aware of its deficiency.
It is meant to confirm that the concept of 'Allah' is held apart from 'God' by people, and at the same time state that this is wrong cause they are the same.
Its a statement which doesnt mean anything, until you 'define' what you mean by God or Allah. While this is possible, defining God 'Himself' is impossible.
Defining what you mean, is creating a concept, which is deficient in advance. Keeping this serious shortcoming in mind, it is easy to differentiate between concepts.
You can say there is one God, and that the concept which approaches this statement the most, is the one presented by the quran.
After that, it is safe to state that all the other concepts are invalid at some or all points (define points).
If one concept overlaps with the other, it doesnt mean that there are more gods, but simply that either the origin is one, or the logical construction behind the concept is similar. It doesnt say anything about 'God'.
The 'deen' (u left this word untranslated conciously didnt you?) of islam is not what its about. Its about God.
Islam (submission) is merely a logical consequence of our consciousness of the necessity of nature to the existence of God, so is the 'duty' you refer to.
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Its a statement which doesnt mean anything, until you 'define' what you mean by God or Allah. While this is possible, defining God 'Himself' is impossible.
Salam,
What is Allah?
Say, "He is Allah , One,
(1121)So wherever you turn
there is the face of Allah
(2115)Can we understand the above explanation?
Nope! Unthinkable and unimaginable. Therefore, the reference of Allah as God in the Qur'an are subjected to the interpretation of Sura al-Ikhlas. The sura that defines what is Allah.
Its reference is only for human beings who are only able to derive the understanding of Allah from the concept of God (claim of ownership etc). It is the process, but not the destination or true meanings of Allah. As equal to the issue of whether a deen is a religion, Allah is not God, among other gods.
(read here, Why Allah is not God?)
Peace brother. peace
La Illah Ila Allah
There is no god, there is only Allah. -
Salam,
What is Allah?
Say, "He is Allah , One,
(1121)So wherever you turn
there is the face of Allah
(2115)Can we understand the above explanation?
Nope! Unthinkable and unimaginable. Therefore, the reference of Allah as God in the Qur'an are subjected to the interpretation of Sura al-Ikhlas. The sura that defines what is Allah.
Its reference is only for human beings who are only able to derive the understanding of Allah from the concept of God (claim of ownership etc). It is the process, but not the destination or true meanings of Allah. As equal to the issue of whether a deen is a religion, Allah is not God, among other gods.
Peace brother. peace
We can understand these verses to a certain extent, far enough to dismiss concepts which contradict these verses. They are verses, they are not 'God'.
What we can not do, is comprehend God.
Peace yay
ps I completely reject Ahmet Hulusi's conclusions about 'Allah'.
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Peace Muslims,
You have a basic problem, and that is you defy or misunderstand language.
Language
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a body of words and the systems for their use common to a people who are
of the same community or nation. -
a particular communication system shared by a people of written symbols
spoken words and movements.
In English Allah = God
In English Deen = religion
You have created your very own language barrier!
God bless
peace
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Peace Muslims,
You have a basic problem, and that is you defy or misunderstand language.
Language
-
a body of words and the systems for their use common to a people who are
of the same community or nation. -
a particular communication system shared by a people of written symbols
spoken words and movements.
In English Allah = God
In English Deen = religion
You have created your very own language barrier!
God bless
peace
Peace hawk99,
You are right, according to your understanding.
It is the process, but not the destination or true meanings of Allah.
Peace brother.
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What we can not do, is comprehend God.
Salam Nazzam,
Agreed, including the "word God" and all meaning associated with it. handshake
Its reference is only for human beings who are only able to derive the understanding of Allah from the concept of God (claim of ownership etc).
Peace brother.