Adultery punishment
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I understood the Arabic word Abd can mean servant as well as slave. If it does refer to slavery, how can it be just, righteous or acceptable for a person to even have slaves if freedom and justice is the core values of Islam?
15 alone you we devotee/serve and alone you we ask help
Peace ? in context of Qu'ran it always refers to a willing devotee/servant the god or toward someone/something else (idolatry) and never as unwilling slave or human owned by another also clear idolatry.
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there is no issue if we consider "malakat aymanukum" in 2431 as slave.
ayman (right hand) refer to power/authority. "malak" is possess.
the keyword is actually "malak/possess".
what kind of people is possessed by other people? Answer slave.our wife, our maid, our worker is not our possession.
The problem is not as simple as like this.
The meaning of ayman is not limited on right, right hand but also "oath".Mamluq (not malak) simply mean planner or roller.We cannot judge too hasty if ayman is slave, you may read another similiar threads in Quran Question n comment board.
Where in the Quran does it say you can have sex with your own MMA?
What's MMA?
I understood the Arabic word Abd can mean servant as well as slave
This word also part of of Nusantaran languages especially Malay language family and possibly Bruneian Jawi too.And we use this word as servant not slave.
Example "Kami mengabdi kepada negara"
"We serve to country"Cheers!
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No, it cannot mean the same thing malaka and malaka ayman...
If it was so there would no reason at all to used them jointly. and to put right in instead of left. malaka is something malaka ayman... is something else. Malaka is not merely posession it can also mean authroity without possession. So there would be no need if what was meant was merely that to coin the term ma malakat aymanuk, it is something else. In this forum it has beend ealt with very extensively, and this possession, property thing as if slave is really pure speculation with no basis on qur'an.
Salaam
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Peace Earthdom,
MMA = Ma malakat aymanakum
Regards,
Yuliana -
Man of faith said But if you have an intention to marry the wife I think it is okay to have sex.
what??!!
diamantinehoneybunch said Where in the Quran does it say you can have sex with your own MMA? 425 disproves your argument.
Women may also have their own MMAs as per Qur'an. So according to you Qur'an also permits women to have sex with their MMAs?It said at 236, 7030
425 is about marry the MMA. Sure one have to marry her first if she doesn't his own slave. I've said it before.
Let's see general context of MMA in quran regarding to marriage and sex (43, 424-25, 3350, 3352). From that verses we know that the context is relationship between male master with his female MMA. So, although woman is also can have a slave she doesn't allowed to have premarital sex with him.
Lena said If it does refer to slavery, how can it be just, righteous or acceptable for a person to even have slaves if freedom and justice is the core values of Islam?
Islam never create slavery. It existed long time before Islam and happen in many part of the world. Its age is as old as war because most of slaves come from unredeemed war captives. I don't think to keep a captive in prison for life like wild animal is better than to involve him to society as a slave (mostly will be placed as maid or manual labor).
However, Islam has some policy that saw sympathy to slaves i.e. to do good with them, to free them as expiation, etc.
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what??!!
It said at 236, 7030
425 is about marry the MMA. Sure one have to marry her first if she doesn't his own slave. I've said it before.
Let's see general context of MMA in quran regarding to marriage and sex (43, 424-25, 3350, 3352). From that verses we know that the context is relationship between male master with his female MMA. So, although woman is also can have a slave she doesn't allowed to have premarital sex with him.
Islam never create slavery. It existed long time before Islam and happen in many part of the world. Its age is as old as war because most of slaves come from unredeemed war captives. I don't think to keep a captive in prison for life like wild animal is better than to involve him to society as a slave (mostly will be placed as maid or manual labor).
However, Islam has some policy that saw sympathy to slaves i.e. to do good with them, to free them as expiation, etc.
MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM means Those whom YOUR right hand possess.
In 425, GOD says marry ma malakat aymanukum and NOT for illicit sex. So what the heck is this illicit sex?
Are you playing abrogation game to Qur'an verses like Shafi'i did?Your high support towards having sexual intercourse with slaves really remind me of hadiths that say men may have coitus interruptus with female captives.
No wonder some people see islam as sex-maniac religion. I feel bad for people like you.
Just because slavery has already occurred since thousands of years ago, doesn't mean it is okay. GOD says many times in the Qur'an persecution / oppression is worse than murder. If GOD says to free slaves that means you must free your slaves. No slavery in islam. If islam allows slavery, then GOD would have not condemned Pharaoh in the Qur'an, instead GOD would have said bravo to Pharaoh.
Child marriage has existed for thousands of years, does that mean it is okay?
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MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM means Those whom YOUR right hand possess.
In 425, GOD says marry ma malakat aymanukum and NOT for illicit sex. So what the heck is this illicit sex?
Are you playing abrogation game to Qur'an verses like Shafi'i did?Your high support towards having sexual intercourse with slaves really remind me of hadiths that say men may have coitus interruptus with female captives.
No wonder some people see islam as sex-maniac religion. I feel bad for people like you.
Just because slavery has already occurred since thousands of years ago, doesn't mean it is okay. GOD says many times in the Qur'an persecution / oppression is worse than murder. If GOD says to free slaves that means you must free your slaves. No slavery in islam. If islam allows slavery, then GOD would have not condemned Pharaoh in the Qur'an, instead GOD would have said bravo to Pharaoh.
Child marriage has existed for thousands of years, does that mean it is okay?
bravo
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Salaam Zulf,
what??!!
culture shock ;D
Not entirely. But if you have sex then you should officially marry, at least according to some old customs. Of course some Middle-Eastern customs apply to Quran.
I deem sex without intention is wrong and that sex is binding to oaths.
God bless you
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MA MALAKAT AYMANUKUM means Those whom YOUR right hand possess.
In 425, GOD says marry ma malakat aymanukum and NOT for illicit sex. So what the heck is this illicit sex?Illicit sex on that case is committing adultery with slave.
Your high support towards having sexual intercourse with slaves really remind me of hadiths that say men may have coitus interruptus with female captives.
I don't care what hadith says. All my argument is based on quran verses, not other source.
No wonder some people see islam as sex-maniac religion. I feel bad for people like you.
True believer shouldn't care too much of what people may think as long as he stick on God's guidance (quran).
Islam applies death penalty for certain crime. People want to say that Islam doesn't respect human right? Go ahead!
Islam stipulates that in some cases male has some advantages comparing to female. People want to say that Islam is unjust? Go ahead!
Islam allows polygamy. People want to say that Islam is retarded? Go ahead!True muslim worshiping God, not people's opinion.
Just because slavery has already occurred since thousands of years ago, doesn't mean it is okay. GOD says many times in the Qur'an persecution / oppression is worse than murder. If GOD says to free slaves that means you must free your slaves. No slavery in islam. If islam allows slavery, then GOD would have not condemned Pharaoh in the Qur'an, instead GOD would have said bravo to Pharaoh.
I never said that something is okay just because it occurred since long time ago, it so absurd! I just explain a bit historical background of slavery so we get a more precision view about it.
Based on quran, slavery (possessed people) as a social reality never be forbidden. Quran admits such reality and regulates it with certain rules.
Pharaoh condemned because he denied God's verses and he proclaimed himself as deity/god. That is nothing to do with the fact that he enslaved israelis.
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Salaam,
What kind of polygamy are you talking about?
God bless you
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Salaam,
Well, I meant more than that. It is not conditional according to you?
God bless you
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Peace quranflea, all.
Throughout the Qoran God teaches us that His Glorious book, the Quoan, will guide some and misguides others. This is is no more than God fulfilling His promise to give the humans what they asked for, take the full responsibility to choose freely and decide to accept Him or not.
We have offered the responsibility (freedom of choice) to the heavens and the earth, and the mountains, but they refused to bear it, and were afraid of it. But the human being accepted it; he was transgressing, ignorant.
We should not be taken by surprise when we find others reading the same verses and get nothing out of them or even get the opposite understanding. It is God's system, "No compulsion in religion" 2256
We all know that there are over 1.5 billion Muslims around the world who read the same Qoran that we read but most of them get nothing out of it or get a distorted meaning and understanding supported by corrupted scholars who are misguided because they chose to ignore God's teaching in the Qoran and go after man-made tafseers/books...etc
The following verses show the proof that Quran misguides those who choose not to find the truth and end being misguided.
We send down in the Qoran healing and mercy for the believers. At the same time, it only increases the wickedness of the transgressors.
God does not shy away from citing any kind of allegory, from the tiny MOSQUITO and greater. As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord. As for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did God mean by such an allegory?" He misleads many thereby, and guides many thereby. But He never misleads thereby except the wicked,
When you read the Qoran, we place between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter an invisible barrier. We place shields around their minds, to prevent them from understanding it, and deafness in their ears. And when you preach your Lord, using the Qoran alone, they run away in aversion.
None can grasp it (Qoran) except the sincere.
He sent down to you this scripture, containing straightforward verses - which constitute the essence of the scripture - as well as multiple-meaning or allegorical verses. Those who harbor doubts in their hearts will pursue the multiple-meaning verses to create confusion, and to extricate a certain meaning. None knows the true meaning thereof except God and those well founded in knowledge. They say, "We believe in this - all of it comes from our Lord." Only those who possess intelligence will take heed.
...etc
Please quranflea, free yourself from the qoranparasites, i.e ulama/ mullahs...and their corrupted translations/explanations of Qoran!.Otherwise the bug they put in your head will grow and add to your corruption.
Clean your mind, ask the author of Qoran for help!
May the Lord help and bless you.
Peace to you and to all -
The need to have privileges that confirm their maleness is something really pathetic that mkes me feel sorry for many so called muslim males. What a suffering must be to be so insatiable as about one's standing and recognition. So much attention seeking, so much desperation to be given their toys...
Salaam
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Dear quranflea,
Your version of islam is not islam but your version of islam is Salafi version of Quranism.
So how many slaves have you raped so far?
How many wives are you having now? You 'do' all of them?
The traditional version of interpretation of Qur'an is still in your mind.If God orders you to pray, does that mean it is just recommendation and not obligation?
If God frowns upon Pharaoh for ENSLAVING, RAPING WOMEN and God commands people to FREE THEIR SLAVES so where is space for slavery here?What does this slavery issue have to do with polygamy? Polygamy (under no conditions as long as not more than 4 wives) is Sunni type of polygamy.
If in 425, God prohibits ILLICIT SEX with those whom your right hand possess, that means you cannot have sex with your right hand possess.
Sex-slavery is not in true islam, just in your mind.
I have no problem with God's law but I am sick of those who justify sex-slavery / slavery, suicide bombing etc in the name of God.
FFS, please understand that 43 is only for the care of orphans, not to simply have more wives to f--- all of them and have 20+ children.
Death penalty in islam? What? Killing apostate? Stoning for adutery? Of course these are unQuranic.
As far as I know, in the Quran, the punishments are always an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Murderers deserve death penalty, and oppressers / tyrannies also deserve death.If you want to feel slavery, go ahead move to some parts of the US and say "hey! Please enslave me because I firmly believe that Qur'an doesn't forbid it. Chain my hands whenever I am free from my duties and force me to work anytime you want me too" and you feel how enslaved people feel.
Slaves have no right at all. They are forced to work. They have no freedom at all. This is why slavery is oppression and oppression is worse than murder. Just read Qur'an verses about Pharaoh and read how God condemns Pharaoh and his people for enslaving, raping women etc. So why is slavery not bad? And Qur'an says true Submitters free their slaves so masters of slaves can't call themselves Submitters (or in Arabic, Muslims).I am sorry. Your mind is just like crazy Mullahs in KSA, Pakistan etc.
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Salaam,
Well, I meant more than that. It is not conditional according to you?
God bless you
Peace,
The condition is you only may have max of 4 wives at the same time.
If we set aside the 'polygamy' term for a while, what actually happen is simply a marriage. But in this case the man has already wife instead of single. And God never forbid a married man to marry other woman.
If God frowns upon Pharaoh for ENSLAVING, RAPING WOMEN and God commands people to FREE THEIR SLAVES so where is space for slavery here?
Please show me the verse stated that God frowns upon Pharaoh for ENSLAVING, RAPING WOMEN. And verse that God commands people to FREE THEIR SLAVES.
If in 425, God prohibits ILLICIT SEX with those whom your right hand possess, that means you cannot have sex with your right hand possess.
It's called illicit sex if one do it with someone else slave. That's why in 425 one need permission from her (slave) master. It indicates that the slave is not his own possession.
In case she (slave) is his own slave, he may have sex with her => again, please read 236 and 7030
As far as I know, in the Quran, the punishments are always an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Murderers deserve death penalty, and oppressers / tyrannies also deserve death.
So, you confirmed that there is death punishment in Islam. Good.
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Salaam,
I think you missed conditions even if you disregard that the polygamy is only the widows of deceased men. It is still not okay to simply marry them and all is fine.
God bless you
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Flea of Qur'an,
'Kum' in Ma malakat aymanukum means YOUR so Ma malakat aymanuKUM cannot mean right hands possession of others but YOUR right hands possess. In 425, ma malakat aymanuKUM is used.SLAVERY IS CONDEMNED
379 It is not for any human being that God would give him the Book and the authority and the prophethood, then he would say to the people "Be servants to me rather than God!" Rather "Be Devotees for what you have been taught of the Book, and of what you have studied."
2610 And when your Lord called to Moses "Go to the people who are wicked."
2611 "The people of Pharaoh. Will they not be righteous?"
2612 He said "My Lord, I fear that they would deny me."
2613 "And my chest would become tight, and my tongue would not be able to express; so send for Aaron."
2614 "And they have charges of a crime against me, so I fear they will kill me."
2615 He said "Indeed not! Go both of you with Our signs. I am with you listening."
2616 "So both of you go to Pharaoh and say 'We are messengers of the Lord of the worlds'
2617 'So send with us the Children of Israel'"
2618 He said "Did we not raise you among us as a new born, and you stayed with us for many of your years?"
2619 "And you did that deed you did, and you are of the rejecters."
2620 He said "I did it, and I was of those misguided."
2621 "So I ran away from you all, for I feared you. So my Lord granted me judgment, and made me of the messengers."
2622 "And is it a favor that you taunt me with, so you could continue to enslave the Children of Israel?"
There is a reason why I don't only quote verse 2622, instead I quote from 2610. I want slave-hungers and Qur'an fleas like you, mullahs etc to open your eyes and stop justifying inhumanity in the name of God.RAPE IS CONDEMNED. GOD HAS CONDEMNED RAPE COMMITTED BY PHARAOH'S GANG.
249 And We saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. In that was a great test from your Lord.7127 And the commanders from among the people of Pharaoh said "Will you let Moses and his people corrupt the land, and abandon you and your gods?" He said "We will kill their children and rape their women; we will be supreme over them."
7141 And We had saved you from the people of Pharaoh, they were afflicting you with the worst punishment; they used to kill your children and rape your women; and in that was a great test from your Lord.
146 And Moses said to his people "Remember the blessings of God upon you that He saved you from the people of Pharaoh; they were afflicting you with the worst punishment, and they used to slaughter your children, and rape your women. And in that was a great test from your Lord."
284 Pharaoh became mighty in the land, and he turned its people into factions; he oppressed a group of them by killing their children and raping their women. He was of those who corrupted.
4025 Then, when the truth came to them from Us, they said Kill the children of those who believed with him, and rape their women. But the planning of the rejecters is always in error.
[FREEING SLAVES IS A DEED OF THE TRUTHFUL AND RIGHTEOUS
2177 Piety is not to turn your faces towards the east and the west, but pious is one who believes in God and the Last Day, and the angels, and the Book, and the prophets, and who gives money out of love to the relatives, and the orphans, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and those who ask, and to free the slaves; and who upholds the contact prayer, and who contributes towards purification; and those who keep their pledges when they make a pledge, and those who are patient in the face of hardship and adversity and when in despair. These are the ones who have been truthful, and these are the righteous.9010 And We guided him to both paths?
9011 He should choose the better path.
9012 Do you know which is the better path?
9013 The freeing of slaves.
9014 Or the feeding on a day of great hardship.
9015 An orphan of relation.
9016 Or a poor person in need.
9017 Then he has become one of those who have believed, and exhort one another to patience, and exhort one another to kindness.
9018 Those are the people of the right.
9019 As for those who rejected Our revelations, they are the people of misery.
9020 Upon them is a Fire closed over.Imagine if your state and the neighboring state are waging wars against each other, your state loses and your mother, sisters or any close female relatives of yours are taken as slaves,since you highly condemns prohibition of slavery and support sex with female slaves, you would allow the slave owners to have sex with them huh?
We are only commanded by God ro submit to Him alone.I wonder why you choose quranflea as your nickname. You talk like a flea of Qur'an. You try to hard to justify sex-slavery by distorting the message in Qur'an.