Gay and Muslim?
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Salaam,
I asked for an ayat that tells homosexual people are non-Muslims and I received no response and instead accusations of being opinionated instead of factual because I said that personal behavior is far more important than anything else in Islam. And I asked if this could be denied. It is my understanding of Islam that most of it has to do with one's own behavior than anything else. Be mindful of God and purify oneself.
Will you disagree that behavior is more important than religious perfection? Simple arrogance is among the worst traits God knows if you read the Quran the way I do and better very kind and helpful than arrogant and religious strict and proper. Mr. Good Heart vs. Mr. Perfect - What to prioritize if one would have to choose?
God bless you
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It is my understanding of Islam that most of it has to do with one's own behavior than anything else. Be mindful of God and purify oneself. Will you disagree that behavior is more important than religious perfection?
Indeed it is, and so does Hillel, Jesus, Siddhartha, Zarathustra, Krishna, Lao Tse has said the same thing..
Do good deeds that's the most important..Simple arrogance is among the worst traits God knows if you read the Quran the way I do and better very kind and helpful than arrogant and religious strict and proper. Mr. Good Heart vs. Mr. Perfect - What to prioritize if one would have to choose?
"And true servants of Ar-Rahman are they who walk on the earth in humbleness, and when the ignorant address them, they say Peace."
Quran 2563"Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus ?God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.? But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ?God, be merciful to me, a sinner!? I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted. "
Luke 18 -
Salaam,
The mistake people make, including on here, is that they over-interpret the scripture/Message and forget the fundamental criteria in it without perceiving it themselves in search for exact details for everything. Quran is a guidebook and not a detailed walk-through on how to live your life. It gives "hints" on how to best live ones life and teaches this edge knowledge and as long as one keeps these hints in the mind while making on-the-fly decisions in life they will be Muslims. God is not a tyrant god that wants military discipline and perfectionism everywhere but is very understanding and loving as long as you serve Him alone and have a good heart as I mentioned in my previous post. Simply gaining absolute certainty and reassurance that God is really real and purifying oneself through good deeds using a good heart is a winning concept. It is actually the starter goal for a Muslim, so more than becoming a perfectionist in all regards, to gain absolute certainty and purify oneself through good deeds and behavior. And do not come asking for an ayat as the whole Quran shines with this testimony. Then I will just recommend you to re-read the Quran... over and over again until you see the pattern, if you are blessed to be able to comprehend and not cursed by God due to ill-behavior.
Purifying oneself you do by being mindful of God and being good. Ultimately the most important aspect of God's religion/system. It is really as simple as "Good vs. Evil". But gaining God's favor takes some steadfastness and God will probably test your faith through various hardships, or rather let Shaytaan carry out his evil. But once have gained His favor then you have a powerful ally to lean on. The purer you are the less God will expose you to problems though as God does not really need to try you more as He will trust you. And this is related to my thread "Nearness and Guidance -> Knowledge and Wisdom -> Peace and Prosperity" where this above point can be seen as "Peace and Prosperity" as you have the previous criteria and actively receives like a buff of Peace and Prosperity directly from the Lord.
Not saying people around you do not commit stupid things if they are afflicted by Shaytaan and can make you sad, but they will never make you lose as long as you are steadfast and trust that the Lord will protect you from them ruining your life. A good believing aura can spread, but it is difficult to affect a severe Shaytaanic infection. The best Peace and Prosperity will come in the afterlife where you are rid of those who follow their own vain desires.
Anyway, be good people, be good. Give a dollar or two to the beggar on the side of the street or the fraud that asks around the corner too. The money does not matter much for the short term you are here anyway. It is just a temporary gain. Live moderately and throw money all around you (to those who need) and you will follow the example of Messenger Jesus. The stingy will never reach Heaven unless a camel passes through the eye of a needle, as allegedly said by Jesus, and it is probably true that this expression was ever used.
Ignite the Messenger spirit now I say, to follow a good example set by God. God is the One, our Sovereign and King. Love your neighbor as yourself, and even the gay next-doors.
God bless you
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Thanks brothers and sisters, together we will make the Earth a better place until the Day. Jafar, your story with the tax collector and the Pharisee is absolutely fabulous. There you have one of the more perfect examples really. I am in no doubt that Jesus actually said that as he spoke the words of God.
Anyway, since when did God forbid as from having opinions as long as we follow His main criteria? When? When? It smells conjecture and military style god.
God bless you
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What I'm amazed at is how some people are very quick to judge homosexuals as non-muslims. I'm amazed at how people's own entrained culture and emotional standpoint can so easily make us judge others as non-muslim. What is homosexualiity? Isn't it basically an attraction towards the same sex? How can this alone and in itself be the reason why we would be non-muslim? If this is the case, and if just this one variable alone is enough to tilt us over to the non-muslim side, then there must be millions of other things that would render us non-muslim. One such thing would be the habit of judging others.
Very well-said brother...
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Anyway, be good people, be good. Give a dollar or two to the beggar on the side of the street or the fraud that asks around the corner too. The money does not matter much for the short term you are here anyway. It is just a temporary gain. Live moderately and throw money all around you (to those who need) and you will follow the example of Messenger Jesus. The stingy will never reach Heaven unless a camel passes through the eye of a needle, as allegedly said by Jesus, and it is probably true that this expression was ever used.
Siddhartha offered more simple advice
"Try to uplift suffering. If you can't at least don't cause one!". -
Siddhartha offered more simple advice
"Try to uplift suffering. If you can't at least don't cause one!".Peace Jafar, that is okay too brother.
God bless you
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Salaam,
We follow a sectarian path where opinions are not allowed.
God bless you
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Salam
Yes, you are right. Personal opinions without reference to the Qur'an is allowed in the Sunni and Shia Religion. It is called as "hadith". You may also compile your opinions and write your own Books or Kitabs. yes
So direct your face toward the deen, inclining to truth
the fitrah of Allah upon which He has created people
No change should there be in the creation of Allah
That is the correct deen
but most of the people do not know
(3030)Peace & Good Night peace
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I asked for an ayat that tells homosexual people are non-Muslims and I received no response
Salam
Do you read? hmm
(Refer here 1, 2, 3 and lots more, which not necessarily to be pointed out each of them.)
Allah clearly says
And whoever seeks a "dnan" (ا other than Islam <- "surrender and submission"
it will NEVER be accepted of him <- Do you have a choice if Allah say "NEVER"?
and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers
(385)- if Islam to be interpreted as "harmony" and as what you have said, then it is we to harmonize ourselves with the rules of Allah, and not Allah to harmonize His rules with our rules. Who are God?
and comparison... REFER HERE
People must be able to distinguish between "behaviour" (amal) and "I'tiqad"(creed or decisive belief)
being a gay and with an i'tiqad (creed) to reform and obey Allah is a muslim (refer here)
but being a gay with an i'tiqad (creed) to remain as a gay and disobey Allah is a non-muslim (refer here)Secondly,
Will you disagree that behavior is more important than religious perfection? Simple arrogance is among the worst traits God knows if you read the Quran the way I do and better very kind and helpful than arrogant and religious strict and proper. Mr. Good Heart vs. Mr. Perfect - What to prioritize if one would have to choose?
(REFER HERE)
Okay if I make it simple and break it into four rules, Islam for you is only the "Afaalullah".. and you set aside the "Asmaulllah", "Sifatullah" and "Dzatullah". Just like what the Christians are doing, Jesus is Love and nothing else matter. So as Buddhism, life is peace and harmony, nothing else matter ... or the Hinduism, life is sacrifice, nothing else matter. That's pretty simple, and there is nothing to reason, weight and balance for a deen, or dealings with various behaviours of human beings and other living creatures (cf. Khalifah). In fact, Allah could just tell us on a single piece of paper, do good! Done! Good Job!
However, does both Mr. Perfect and Mr. Good Heart, or loves have negative side effects?
Does perfection or love "invites fear"?
Insecure?
Depression?
Frustration, abuse, alcoholic or suicide, maybe? !
You are Mr. Good Heart and divorcing, your wife left you... right?
What do you feel now, after being Mr. Good Heart?
Do you able to "READ" (understand) her as Mr. Good Heart?
How many people in this world with good heart and full of love but live miserably?
Being oppressed by the those in power?
Now, how does all that relates with the following ayat?
Unquestionably, the allies of Allah
there will be no fear concerning them
nor will they grieve
(1062)How could it be possible for any human beings to be fear of imperfection or being unloved, and at the same time have no "fear" or "grievance"?
How does all that is the solution by the One True Creator?
You must be kidding.
The Qur'an is not that that simple or like what you think, right?
In fact, I believe you don't understand (read) what you are talking.
You are just rambling, and without facts from the Qur'an (no purpose). )
Okay, so you don't read and only argues.
Thirdly,
The stingy will never reach Heaven unless a camel passes through the eye of a needle, as allegedly said by Jesus, and it is probably true that this expression was ever used.
Sorry, I don't bother about the alleged Jesus saying or "hadith" since we have the Quranic version and it is not about "stingy" person.
Indeed, those who deny Our verses <- the "DO NOT" prohibition in the Qur'an
and are arrogant toward them
the gates of Heaven will not be opened for them
nor will they enter Paradise
until a camel enters into the eye of a needle <- it is impossible for the disobedience to enter paradise
And thus do We recompense the criminals
(740)They will abide in hell forever.
But the ones who deny Our verses
and are arrogant toward them
those are the companions of the Fire
they will abide therein eternally
(736)Peace
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Salam brother muslims.
No offense.Your theory is smart, but you may re-consider again, is another members understand your theories?
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My homosexuality is something that has often made me question if the Koran really came from God. And I still have not been able to reconcile my faith with my sexuality.
Being gay, I can tell you that it's NOT a matter of choice. But for someone who is not gay, you can never really expect that they would understand you. They simply can't. Why? Because they are not gay.
If I tell you today - start getting attracted to guys...right now...the way you get attracted to girls - will you be able to do it? I tell you to be emotionally attracted to men and not women - will you be able to do it? I show you a picture with a hot guy and a hot girl - will you be able to stop yourself from getting attracted to the hot girl....and instead get attracted to the hot guy?
And because you will not be able to do this, what if I then announce that you have a disease and that you are abnormal and against nature? How would you feel?
These are questions that many straight guys will not have the brain cells to understand or appreciate.
On one hand I feel inclined towards the Koran for multiple reasons....and then on one hand I struggle with the fact that I'm gay...and I didn't choose to be this way. So why did God make most people straight and me gay? Why are all the laws for straight couples and nothing about gay couples? Why? Why? Why? Is that not unfair? Isn't God supposed to be Just?
Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality.
It is indeed the decree of the Lord of worlds- Allah through our soul to the mind saying that
"You should be normal heterosexual as I have created initially Adam and his companion, and further created offsprings through mates."
against the brain to the mind that
"Indeed...if I any genie were to give me the option to change a few things about myself....I would certainly change my sexuality"
3511 And God created you from dust, then from a seed, then He made you into pairs.
396 He created you from one person, then He made from it its mate.
2678 ?The One who has created us, He will guide us.?
Anyways...coming to the Koran...I'm quite confused. People from Answering Islam say that the Koran must be wrong because it says that there were no gays before Lot's people! Now how do you answer this? You may answer that it was LOT who said this and NOT God...and messengers are human beings like us so Lot did not have enough knowledge about the world and said this in error. I really don't know.
Sometimes I feel that the Koran is talking about bisexuals...as it talks about people LEAVING females and going for males...bisexuals can CHOOSE where they want to get sexual gratification from. I used to think there are no bisexuals until I met a few bisexual friends. They are INDEED attracted to both the sexes in the same way.
Yet some verses seem to clearly imply that homosexual acts are sins. Whenever the Koran talks about people of Lot, it ALWAYS mentions the sexual acts. A few other verses do mention other things..robbery etc...but sexual stuff remains the KEY sin.
And that's the reason why I do not plan to settle down with a guy. And that's also the reason why I am seeking a lesbian to get married to...a marriage of convenience...I want to fit in with the society. IF ONLY the Koran had approved of homosexuality, I would have lived my life my way and cared a fudge about what other people said. The Koran is also totally silent on lesbianism.
Some people argue that the Koran also does not mention any punishment for rape...so does that mean rapes are allowed? So how can you say the same about homosexual acts?
Have I found the answers? No I haven't. And I probably never will, until God chooses to reveal something to me, or until I'm resurrected.
God bless....
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Salam brother muslims.
No offense.Your theory is smart, but you may re-consider again, is another members understand your theories?
Salam brother Earthdom
I believed many understand the ideas and meaning of Salah. It is explained in another thread, and
"IQRA bismi rabbikalla dhi khalaq"
"READ in the name of your Lord who created" <- refer to 11, "Alhamdu"
(961) (not in our name or interest, or goals)Peace brother.
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Peace I have just watched a news item on Al Jazeera about Germany accepting intersex as a gender on birth certificates for those who are born with mixed genitalia or genitalia that cannot be determined as either male or female. Australia already has this category of gender. Advocacy from adults who were born intersex was not to be operated on until the person is mature enough to make their own decision about the sex they wish to be or they may decide against any operation and to remain intersex. Are there any verses in the Quran that would enable the possibility of an intersex gender or are male & female the only gender categories in Quran? Does homosexuality include those who are born intersex in gender if they choose to remain intersex?
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Salaam,
I am rambling with absolute truth. We can see about it who will be the one abiding in Hell. Let us wait and see.
God bless you
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This worldly life is no more than vanity and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the real life, if they only knew.
This worldly life is no more than play and vanity. But if you believe and lead a righteous life, He will reward you, without asking you for any money.
Know that this worldly life is no more than play and games, and boasting among you, and hoarding of money and children. It is like abundant rain that produces plants and pleases the disbelievers. But then the plants turn into useless hay, and are blown away by the wind. In the Hereafter there is either severe retribution, or forgiveness from GOD and approval. This worldly life is no more than a temporary illusion.
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This worldly life is no more than vanity and play, while the abode of the Hereafter is the real life, if they only knew.
This worldly life is no more than play and vanity. But if you believe and lead a righteous life, He will reward you, without asking you for any money.
Know that this worldly life is no more than play and games, and boasting among you, and hoarding of money and children. It is like abundant rain that produces plants and pleases the disbelievers. But then the plants turn into useless hay, and are blown away by the wind. In the Hereafter there is either severe retribution, or forgiveness from GOD and approval. This worldly life is no more than a temporary illusion.
Very true my friend, so why are we fighting here over what?
And these two verses only confirm what I was "rambling" about for hours last night. God's "Word" is as simple as that and "Man cannot live by words alone but through hard work".
God bless you
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I am rambling with absolute truth. We can see about it who will be the one abiding in Hell. Let us wait and see.
Salam
"Absolute truth"? Nice! yes
Further, nothing that surprised me since I don't have to wait and see because I always expecting Hell and pray for Allah to show me the way; La Hawla wa La Quwwata Illa Billaah, "there is no power nor might except by Allah". I know nothing and cannot save myself from sin and shirk (refer here and here).
Other than the Sunni and Shia, I can't image anyone reading the Qur'an, claiming absolute truth without any reference to the Qur'an and be able to expect Paradise.
Do the people think that they will be left to say
"We believe" and they will not be tried?
(292)Or do you think that you will enter Paradise
while such has not yet come to you
as came to those who passed on before you?They were
touched by poverty
and hardship
and were shakenuntil messenger and those who believed with him said <- even the Messenger almost fails with Allah's test
"When is the help of Allah ?"(2214)
actual facts...
Say, "Shall we inform you
of the greatest losers as to deeds?
those whose effort is lost in worldly life
while they think that they are doing well in work"
Those are the ones who disbelieve in the verses of their Lord
and in meeting Him
so their deeds have become worthless
and We will not assign to them on the Day of Resurrection any importance
That is their recompense - Hell
for what they denied and they took My signs and My messengers in ridicule
(18103-106)Peace peace