She's Not Naked !!!

Leyna

Maybe I misunderstood but are you one of drfazl followers who say believing women should just stay at home and are you saying that those women who work, enjoy outdoor activities, do not cover from head to toe and involve in politics are brainwashed by feminist proganda, ignorant, not pious?

Please re-read my posts. I think it's more than obvious that I've been opposing this attitude. peace

DrGm

I don't see haste in it but simply observation.

we need patience to observe. if you/she had patience, you would have observed that drfazl has not said anywhere that women have to cover from head to toe. he has only said what is quoted from quran and that too only for believing men/women. he has not forced anyone as force is against Islam, he sticks to the teachings of quran in all spheres.

all his quotes refer only quran. drfazl has clearly said that he is not part of any sect prevailing in the muslim society or any society. he is personally against any identity display. head to toe cover is an identity.

How is the claim that God wants women to be covered from head to toe and to stay inside different from what the Salafi scholars claim? According to them, a woman must be covered from head to toe in clothes that completely conceal the shape of her body, preferably with only one eye showing. She should avoid going out except for "cases of necessity". If she does venture out, she not only needs to be covered, but has to avoid wearing perfume, making her voice heard, and she should preferably croach alongside the walls and make herself as invisible as possible. Of course she should only venture out with the approval of her husband and in the company of a mahram.

what ever you have said, nothing is acceptable to drfazl, but you have mentioned here as if he is preaching it. why is it so? in fact many posts in this thread displays what is not said by him. i think you are not having patience to understand what he meant by it. i understand from many of the posts, that there is a sect called salafi and they are imposing many restrictions to women in particular.

in fact, drfazl is giving clarity from quran misunderstood for generations. i see muslims around me, but they are following what is not mentioned in quran. drfazl's teachings are totally against any rituals, oppression, force which is in line with quran. only because of this people from all religions are now taking One God, Allah as their guide, and quran in their native language translated by drfazl.

all the claims against drfazl by some forum members, i see no base in it. i only see haste in their response. i only pray for patience for those, may be at some point God will make them understand what is said to them. many times i felt they are offended by some rituals, or rules they are forced to follow by their clergies, religions and they attribute wrongly those rules to drfazl's postings. after this misunderstandings the whole thread becomes a war as against peaceful exchange in line with quran's teachings. i had this feel in some threads drfazl participated.

this forum being quran alone, True Islam we need more patience to understand and seek God make us live by patience against all evils, the pride being the prime of all evils.

All this, of course, has nothing to do with control or suppression. No, it shows the high preference "Islam" gives to the safety, well-being, and protection of women. Whoever isn't able to understand this is either ignorant, not pious enough, not well-read enough, or simply brainwashed by Western feminist ideas.

Of course wider issues such as women's right to work, enjoy outdoor activities, walks, socialize, engaging in politics and public life etc. pp. are never being discussed or mentioned in this context because they simply don't exist in the realm those people are living in. A true believing woman will not desire to engage in any of those activities that contradict the model of female life her creator has chosen for her.

those things you mentioned can also be discussed with drfazl but they are not related to this topic.

gnanamurthy
peace

DrGm

Maybe I misunderstood but are you one of drfazl followers who say believing women should just stay at home and are you saying that those women who work, enjoy outdoor activities, do not cover from head to toe and involve in politics are brainwashed by feminist proganda, ignorant, not pious?

wrong quote/misunderstanding. have some more patience... Yuliana

peace

diamantinehoneybunch

DrGm -
Your Sir Fazl clearly said that the verse that is only directed to Mohammed's wives to stay at home only must be followed by all believing women.
Confining oneself at home makes no difference than hiding in burqa.

DrGm

DrGm -
Your Sir Fazl clearly said that the verse that is only directed to Mohammed's wives to stay at home only must be followed by all believing women.
Confining oneself at home makes no difference than hiding in burqa.

is this not mocking Yuliana...

mohammed's wives? no where in quran this is mentioned. it's mentioned nabi's wives and no only.

when your heart is not accepting then it is not from quran. if it is from quran then if you pray to follow it in your life you will be surely protected from Allah from all evils. you will never in your life will have to curse. what is accepted in my heart from quran, i pray my Lord to make it my way of living.

peace

Released

Peace.

After reading this thread, I'm having a difficult time believing that I am a member of a Quran alone community here. Honestly, I felt like I was reading the perspectives of some Salafis. It's amazing what one can extrapolate from a verse when he or she is determined to propagate their personal agenda. I would never want to be part of a community with Dr. Fazl and his friends, that's for sure.

The ladies here gave great counter arguments though. As usual, I enjoyed reading posts from Huruf, Leyna, Savage Carrot, Yuliana, etc (sorry, if I missed anyone).

diamantinehoneybunch

is this not mocking Yuliana...

mohammed's wives? no where in quran this is mentioned. it's mentioned nabi's wives and no only.

I wrote like that because "O' Prophet", "O' Messenger" are generally accepted and assumed as "O' Mohammed".

when your heart is not accepting then it is not from quran. if it is from quran then if you pray to follow it in your life you will be surely protected from Allah from all evils. you will never in your life will have to curse. what is accepted in my heart from quran, i pray my Lord to make it my way of living.

This is just one example of arts of brainwashing or tactics used by clergymen to convince their followers or potential followers of their cults to believe in their teachings.
Another example is something like "if you sincerely love Christ and your heart is filled with the love of Christ, you should accept Chapter 1 Timothy 2 rules, O' Ladies!"
The clergymen tend to use something like "if you sincerely love God, you would follow bla bla and bla rules"

Leyna

we need patience to observe. if you/she had patience, you would have observed that drfazl has not said anywhere that women have to cover from head to toe.
?

what ever you have said, nothing is acceptable to drfazl, but you have mentioned here as if he is preaching it. why is it so? in fact many posts in this thread displays what is not said by him.

The post that I replied to mentioned "drfazl & co". I wasn't exclusively referring to his posts but to various statements by various posters.

And, yes, they did say women should cover up and stay inside

Remember that women are to let their head cover fall over their breast area, to conceal the size of it, you know, not the tip of the breasts or its surrounding, but obviously the size.

Also they must not walk in a way that their steps shake their body so that a private part moves (you see the seriousness/graveness of wearing a bikini now?). This all means a woman should not ever go out in a bikini, but also must PROPERLY dress. Not just loose clothing, but perfect dress code according to God's teachings.

Women must conceal their hair too. Seeing how otherwise they have nothing to let fall over their breast area. Their garments are only for the husband.
?

It is mentioned that men should teach the believing women to throw the excess of their head coverings over their breast area.

Following Allah is the easiest way and the firmest and the only way for the women to be safe all their lives. Stay indoors; speak to the strangers determined firmness and from behind a veil; do not loiter on the streets like the ignorant ones of afore times.
?

Thus Allah says O women folks, during your difficult times against any inimical situations in your precincts stay indoors until normalcy is restored. Then when the normalcy returns and as you go out restrain and refrain from your pride and showy behaviour.

? Its Allah 's warning for women to protect themselves. Many women get trapped outside of home while in the evening when they loiter late night movie shows, parties, dances etc. The evil in the men is fully functional during the night time.

Whereas Allah wants to purify by 3333, whereas we like get out of House, then its our risk and shirk against 3333.

At least be prayerful while getting out of House and make direct commitment to GOD. "Oh Lord , I am going out of House. Forgive me. I am going against your command 3333. Please make my return safely. Save me from evils from men.". Now step out with GOD confidence that too if its necessary to go out. But Night time stay at home and obey Allah and his messenger. Stay peacefully like a Queen.

Such a caring post, johnsonmustafa

God Bless You

jhonsonmustafa

1539

"My Lord, because You misled me, I will surely make attractive to them (both men and woman) on earth,
and I will mislead them all"

Movies and Late Night Shows.

Here is the advice from Allah for both men and women. Do not loiter When its not necessary. One or two examples is enough

Example 1. Aurora Shooting
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Aurora_shooting

Example 2. 2012 Delhi Rape Victim.The Boy and girl returned from movie after 915 PM IST was attacked and girl died by 6 people.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape

Evil is there in every Man and woman should be safe guarded.
Coming Back to 3333 every one has to follow. Allah has done nothing wrong. We only invite wrath of Evil. When Allah wants to Purify
you, Saitan whispers in the Ear " Hey Come on what you do at home..... Come Out loiter.. Enjoy " and finally Get Trapped.

Code of Conduct for Men

2430

Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts . That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what
they do.

Allah knows very well Men are bad. Men only do all the evil acts right from kidnapping women to blah blah blah...

Code of Conduct for Women

2431
And tell the believing women to reduce of their vision. Do not expose adornment other than its Natural. Cover the Chest....

No where Quran asked women to completely cover the Body from head to toe. Drfazl is explains from Quran.

4083
Then when their Messengers came to them with clear proofs, they were glad with that which they had of the knowledge
And that at which they used to mock, surrounded them.

So Drfazl is no Exception. Thus its Proved that everyone mocks including in Free- Minds.

3525
And if they deny you - then already have those before them denied. Their messengers came to them with clear proofs and written
ordinances and with the enlightening Scripture.

But Movies is one such example, where as Satan has engulfed every part of life. If you Ponder you know, how the Beautiful
earth is engulfed by Satan. Unless we Pray 24X7, we are not protective.
Hope Allah bless me and all the believers with continuous Prayer and safeguard from Evils

Leyna

Here is the advice from Allah for both men and women. Do not loiter When its not necessary. One or two examples is enough
?
Example 2. 2012 Delhi Rape Victim.The Boy and girl returned from movie after 915 PM IST was attacked and girl died by 6 people.
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Delhi_gang_rape

Evil is there in every Man and woman should be safe guarded.

RAPE MYTHS

Myth Sexual assault is an impulsive, uncontrollable act of passion. The victim is irresistible to the rapist.

Fact Rape is an act of violence, not of sexual desire. The majority of rapes are planned
the place arranged, enticement used, or the victim deliberately sought and coerced into sexual relations.
It is the vulnerability of the victim that attracts the sexual predator. Victims range from infants to the elderly. Anyone, regardless of age, sex, physical appearance, marital status, ethnic, religious or socio-economic background can be raped.

Myth Women are sexually assaulted when they are out alone at night. If women stay home they will be safe.

Fact Studies show that the majority of sexual assaults are committed in either the victim?s home or the offender?s home.

Myth Most rapists hide in dark alleys, waiting for a stranger to walk past.

Facts The majority of reported rapes occur either in the victim?s home or the home of the attacker. In many cases, the victim met the offender in a public place and then was coerced into accompanying the rapist to the place of the assault.
Most rape victims know their attacker at least casually. In many cases, offenders were well known to the victim and were in relationships that one would normally trust, i.e. boyfriend, family friend, close neighbor or relative.

Myth Sexual assault is provoked by the victim. Victims ask for it by their actions, behaviors, or by the way they dress.

Fact To say that someone wants to be raped is the same as saying that people ask to be mugged or robbed. In fact, most rapes are at least partially planned in advance and the victim is often threatened with death or bodily harm if he or she resists. Sexual assault is not a spontaneous crime of sexual passion. It is a violent attack on an individual using sex as a weapon. Sex is used to defile, degrade and destroy a victim?s will and control over his or her own body. For the victim, it is a humiliating, near death situation. No person would ask for or deserve such an attack.

Myth Only ?bad girls? get sexually assaulted.

Fact Sexual assault occurs in all segments of our society. Most rapists choose their targets without regard to physical appearance or lifestyle. Victims are of every type, race, and socio-economic class, young and old alike.

Myth Rapists are crazy, deranged, abnormal perverts. They are lonely men without female partnership.

Fact Rape is not a crime of spontaneous passion. Studies show that 60 to 70% of all sexual assaults are planned. Most rapists are married and having consensual sexual relations while assaulting other women. Rapists themselves do not describe their motivation in terms of sexual gratification, but in terms of hatred and conquest. Sex is used as a weapon to inflict violence, humiliation, and degradation on a victim. Indeed, rapists have said that rape is ?lousy sex.? Sexual offenders come from all educational, occupational, racial and cultural backgrounds. They tend to test differently from the normal, well-adjusted male only in having a greater tendency to express violence and rage.

http//www.janetmeyer.com/articles/SexualAssault/Rape_Myths_&_Facts.pdf

Leyna

Allah knows very well Men are bad.
Men only do all the evil acts right from kidnapping women to blah blah blah...

If you are so concerned about protecting women from evil acts committed by men, why don't you answer the questions I asked yesterday?

If you guys are really concerned with protection of women, why don't you address the dangers women are facing in their very own houses and families?

Women are much more likely to become victims of rape, abuse, physical or psychological violence in the home.

Why not address domestic abuse and marital rape and the lack of protection many women are suffering from in Muslim countries and communities?

Why not address misogynist interpretations allowing husbands to beat their wives and demand that marital violence becomes a criminal offense everywhere in the world?

Why not challenge notions of male privilege and authority that lead to so much imbalance and suffering?

savage_carrot

Schools and Education.

Here is the advice from Satan. Do not go to school and do not go to school in the daytime. One or two or maybe 10 examples is enough

Example 1. Arapahoe High School Shooting
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arapahoe_High_School_shooting

Example 2. School shootings
http//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

Saitan whispers in the Ear " Hey Come on what you do at home..... Come Out Educate yourselves.. Enjoy " and finally Get Trapped.

This format is stupid...let's just ditch it.

Rape http//abcnews.go.com/US/suspect-identified-central-park-daytime-rape/story?id=17226444 Omg! A rape in the daytime! Call Satan, his watch malfunctioned! Or maybe Satan was on the other side of the world somewhere in India where it was night time so it all makes sense. Don't think we need to go trawling for more rape in the daytime stories because Satan knows there are plenty. Let's not go out in the daytime either, lets not go to parks, let's not enjoy God's green earth because even 73 year old women aren't safe. According to some, she invited it since she was loitering in the park, maybe she was even wearing a bikini and the man was helpless in the face of such double temptation. Disgusting.

Where were the movies and the moon and the stars involved in such cases? It's madness to even try to address such appalling logic. The fact that verses of the quran are just pasted at the start of such totally irrelevant and insane conclusions...is beyond belief. The verses don't even come close or even obliquely reference what is offered after! It's like taking closing one's eyes and picking any verse and saying this proves "we shouldn't eat vegetables". It's clear who's really mocking the quran here.

But Movies is one such example, where as Satan has engulfed every part of life. If you Ponder you know, how the Beautiful
earth is engulfed by Satan. Unless we Pray 24X7, we are not protective.
Hope Allah bless me and all the believers with continuous Prayer and safeguard from Evils
We all know what jhonsonmustafa does now. He stays in a bunker deep within the bowels of the earth, doesn't go to school, or the park or to cinema's night or day. He sits on his pc (a modern tool of satan) with a magical internet connection (also a modern tool of satan) wired throughout his bunker and posts on this forum preaching the evils of ever going out and that drfazl is on the right path with this brilliant notion. Do drfazl & family also stay in a fortified bunker? Where do the luxury hotels and first class tickets he was preening about ever come into play then? Hypocrisy much?

jhonsonmustafa