Arab author claims that 4:34 really means "BEAT THEM'
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Peace,
I think it all comes down to the command that we follow the best of interpretations. ?The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.? (Quran 391The author of that article obviously wants to push his agenda forward by translating the word as 'beat'. In my opinion the BEST interpretation is to separate from them.
Peace
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Peace all
In my humble knowledge inspite of maybe not being totaly correct this is an excelent and very insightfull(!!!) article exposing many of the stupidities promoted by free-minders.
Let us learn from it and not blindly reject it or oppose to it...I would particularly turned attention of the members of this site to the fact that the different meanings of verbs (which some free-minders in their ignorance of arabic use indiscriminately as they found them in some non-precise dics. or in imprecise quotations from the precise dics.)are often highly dependant of the prepositions used with them and applicable exclusively when the appropriate or corresponding preposition is used.... (see comment of the egyptian kafir)
Best wishes, Zlatan
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Peace,
When the God ?dharaba? a ?mathal? is He actually hitting or striking it?
Grammar won't teach this, common sense will. Dictionaries and Arabs do not explain a word, the Qur'aan does. The meanings are mutashabih (37), similar/consistent, a word which does not mean allegorical or figurative or metaphorical.
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Beat It !
Salam all,
This Arab speaking Christian insists that 434 really means to beat our wives. What can you comment on this article?
Peace" Man " is a shade above in degree in Wisdom over women.
Use your Wisdom to Beat your wives' Ignorance.
Fear Allah!May Al Hakim, The Wisdomful Bless us
drfazl -
Salaam,
If 434 is literal beat then after getting her back up so much try to reconcile as in v 35. Sometimes we concentrate too much on the verse on its own we forget the context. A disbeliever would want it to be "beat" as in hit. And of course the misogynist...
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Peace Ash Shuura, all
We cannot see the forest through the trees. If Verse 434 is addressing us to beat our wives then what would 2231 be asking us?
And if you have divorced the women, and they have reached their required interim period, then either you remain together equitably, or part ways equitably. And do not reconcile with them so you can harm them out of animosity; whoever does so is doing wickedness to his soul; and do not take God?s revelations lightly.And remember God?s blessings towards you, and what was sent down to you of the Scripture and the wisdom, He warns you with it. And be aware of God and know that God is Knowledgeable in all things. (2231)
Dictionary.com definitions
Equitably
- Marked by or having equity; just and impartial. See Synonyms at fair.
Animosity
- Bitter hostility or open enmity; active hatred.
- A hostile feeling or act. See Synonyms at enmity.
pz
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Salam all,
I was just yesterday sitting over this vers quite a long time thinking it over again and again. Now I open free-minds. and find this debate here... !
As far as I know the word "dharab" really means hit, beat. And in all translations I found the word was translated like this.
According to H. Wehr dharab is to beat hit, shoot, bombard, ......I found nothing like "seperate".
The free-minds. translations for dharab "seperated" would be in arabic "fassl", no?We also have to see the word "nushus". They are to beat when they commited "nushus". Now what is "nushus"?
According to H. Wehr it is Antipathie, refractoriness,rebelliosness, offend against marital duties (Sex), revolting, resistingAll this confuses me a lot. Are men said from God to beat their wifes? I can`t believe it.
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Salaamun alaikum,
Linguistics aside, can we look at CONTEXT? 4/35 is talking about terms of SEPERATION. Where did this seperation come from if adribuhunna in 4/34 didnt refer to it ?
Some Arab Christians have shown thier hatred in various chatrooms. I woudlnt accept any information from them.
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Peace,
Wakas, men also nushus are they beat? If you continue to review all the uses of this word and dharaba it will clear up a lot of things including "beat them" and the miracle of hitting a rock and hitting the sea. It requires some pondering for sure. We should remember that the God is teaching us how He uses these words, no guessing and no switching back and forwards between meanings.
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Dear All,
The english "separate" happens to be the perfect multiple meaning verb for the multiple meaning arabic verb "DaRaBa".
In the quran this verb is used as follows
Arabic usage "to explain/to site an example"
English separate -> disentangle -> make clear -> explainArabic usage "to travel"
English
separate -> go away -> depart -> travelArabic usage "to hit"
separate -> intersect -> join/cross -> touch -> hit.The word intersect can mean to divide or join depending on the context, very similiar to daraba.
Let the context determine what 434 means.
For example are you being told "what to hit" (head, back) and "what to hit with" (your shoe, hand).
Peace.
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peace All,
Nice comments brother Burhan.
This topic has been discussed in depth previously. Whoever is interested in this topic should read the previous stuff.
The possible meanings of Daad-Ra-Ba are extensive, and include 'separate' in the QD and Lane.
Wakas
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Salam all of you,
What is QD? and is Lane found online?
I looked up my fat (german) dictionary again and found "dh-r-b" with the preposition "`an" means "to turn away" .... OH; HERE IT IS...
I found it seperate. I was really wondering why it is mentioned in your books but not in mine....
oopsNow I`m wondering why all translations translate it with to beat,hit. I looked at seven (german) translations all of them translate with to beat, some add "a soft hit" or "without degrading her" ...
By the way this site mentioned above faithfreedom.org is really an ugly one!
Salam idea
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peace All,
Peace wakas,
Nice comments brother Burhan.
This topic has been discussed in depth previously. Whoever is interested in this topic should read the previous stuff.
see http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=877
The possible meanings of Daad-Ra-Ba are extensive, and include 'separate' in the QD and Lane.
Wakas
Could you copy what QD and Lane say proving daraba = separate ?
Thanks
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peace All,
What is QD? and is Lane found online?
QD = Dictionary of Quran
Lane is not found online (as far as I'm aware).
The following project aims to counteract lack of sources for most people.
Could you copy what QD and Lane say proving daraba = separate ?
I never said daraba = separate. This is one of its meanings and I believe brother Burhan did a nice job linking the concepts to this core.
= Daad-Ra-Ba
occurrences
http//www.irreduciblefifth.force9.co.uk/burhan/b.x.262.htm
QD
to heal, strike, propound as an example, put forth a parable, go, make a journey, travel, mix, avoid, take away, put a cover, shut, mention, state, propound, set forth, compare, liken, seek a way, march own, set, impose, prevent, fight, traffic with anyone's property for a share in the profit, leave for sake, take away thing (with 'an).
Depressed ground, hard ground in a plain, sandy valley, commissioner as he has to travel much.
Kind manner, lean, thin, similar, alike, the act of striking, a blow, going from place to place, vicissitude of life, affliction especially that which relates to one's person, as disease, death, degradation is common and general suffering.Lane
beat, struck, smote, hit, the making a thing fall upon another thing, discipline/train, to cast forth, threw or flung it, seal/stamp, veil/curtain/cover/barrier, to point or make a sign, prohibit/hinder/prevent/witheld/restrain, collision, corrupted/disordered/disturbance/unsettled/confused, turn away, avoid, shun, fashion/mould/adapt, mention or set forth (e.g. a parable/example), explain, make a way, multiplying, go/travel, went away, it was or became long, excite/incite/urge/instigate, contend, dispose/accommodate, retract/digression/transition, to silence, tremble/shiver, share/portion.
Location where something is struck, wool or goat's hair separated or plucked or beaten with a mallet, sword, tent-peg, mallet.Some examples from Concordance of Quran
Wakas
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Could you please provide any verses that tell men are more intelligent than women drfazl?
Peace FK,
There is no verse in the Qur'an that tells men are more intelligent than women. We can see this with its balanced tone...
The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense.
The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.
