Greetings Infidels
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Just bumped across this site accidentally
About me, Im in 20's from London, raised an an islamic tradition. Had always been indifferent and passive to islam, then looked at it a few years ago and pretty much realised all the supernatural/paranormal claims are complete garbage and nonsensical mumbo jumbo.
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Peace JiburIshman.
You must have been raised in the wrong "islam" and looked at the wrong "Islam". No wonder you found garbage and mumbo jumbo.
I hope you get introduced to the "real Islam", then you will see light and sense.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
You must have been raised in the wrong "islam" and looked at the wrong "Islam". No wonder you found garbage and mumbo jumbo.
No, I found no convincing reason to think it is true. I'll elaborate a bit more on why no thinking person should either.
From researching the matter and and being self inquisitive I found the concept of god/allah abstract and vague and felt it was a slimey way out of proving he exists objectively. What i heard was that when it suited islamic apologists they knew exactly how god/allah was, but then when difficult questions are posed he suddenly becomes "mysterious" & "we cant understand his ways".... it was one paradox after another, it was eating the cake and not having it at the same time......i felt it was eating the cake and not having it at the same time
God/Allah was supposed to be sentient, but then i knew all sentient objects were made of observable matter and no observable conscious matter had ever been demonstrated of any claimed deity, whether it Allah, Zeus or Ahura Mazda. Ultimately i found no objective proof for an objective claim, nor has anybody ever.
As for having faith, which religionists tell u to have, I find that nobody has ever mentioned faith for that which has proof. It just came across as a a desperate emotional substitute/plea. Faith in fact I found to be a vice as it's insincere, it's pretending to be certain of things you possibly can't know.
Ultimately with all religions providing no objective proof or bad equivocal evidence(full of non-sequitors, sophistry, word games etc ) and all saying you need the feel good factor and goosebumps of faith there was no way to validate any as true for me.
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peace JiburIshmaneace;
As for having faith, which religionists tell u to have
Your teachers taught you wrong. Faith is something that only believers can have/feel. Believers are those who have the word/truth already in their heart. However, to became a believer, a human has first to submit to God (be MUSLIM), then only if God wills the human becomes a believer. However, you do not achieve this by taking humans as teachers, but only through deep meditation/reasoning about the world around you, and self study of ancient knowledge. Before God brought me to Submission (Islam), I exhausted the scientific theories, and I studied about almost all religions of the world. And now, tanks to the light that gave me some light, and tanks to the truth that gave me some truth, I am witness that there is not God but one God, the God of Noah/Abraham/Moses/Jesus/Mohammad. And HE has show me HIS power, and that HE/SHE/IT/THEY has control over everything, including our minds.
If the Muslims you know belong to a sect BE SURE THAT THEY ARE LOST PEOPLE "shia/suni/sufi/wahabi/quranist/monoteist/takfiri/reformist/cristian/jews/etc/etc/etc/etc.
You are like those who want to understand light, while refusing to get out of darkness.
May God increase our knowledge and give us some wisdom.
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May you be spiritually whole,
Be a goodly person in deed and behavior and live in the spirit of God, and you fulfill criteria set. The rest is just hocus pocus, mumbo jumbo. Oh and by the way, kill your ego while you are at it.
Be of one with God
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From researching the matter and and being self inquisitive I found the concept of god/allah abstract and vague and felt it was a slimey way out of proving he exists objectively. What i heard was that when it suited islamic apologists they knew exactly how god/allah was, but then when difficult questions are posed he suddenly becomes "mysterious" & "we cant understand his ways".... it was one paradox after another, it was eating the cake and not having it at the same time......i felt it was eating the cake and not having it at the same time
God/Allah was supposed to be sentient, but then i knew all sentient objects were made of observable matter and no observable conscious matter had ever been demonstrated of any claimed deity, whether it Allah, Zeus or Ahura Mazda. Ultimately i found no objective proof for an objective claim, nor has anybody ever.
As for having faith, which religionists tell u to have, I find that nobody has ever mentioned faith for that which has proof. It just came across as a a desperate emotional substitute/plea. Faith in fact I found to be a vice as it's insincere, it's pretending to be certain of things you possibly can't know.
Ultimately with all religions providing no objective proof or bad equivocal evidence(full of non-sequitors, sophistry, word games etc ) and all saying you need the feel good factor and goosebumps of faith there was no way to validate any as true for me.
I believe you are sincere in your disbelief and appear to be devoid of spiritual guidance at this point in your life,
There are many nonbelievers on the planet, so you have lots of company, thats the way it goes, Allah guides whom
he pleases, so sorry. -
So then in fact what is on your mind and why are you here?
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@wrkmmn
"Faith is something that only believers can have/feel. Believers are those who have the word/truth already in their heart"Hello appeal to emotion fallacy. Nothing visceral is an argument for an objective claim.
I am witness that there is not God but one God, the God of Noah/Abraham/Moses/Jesus/Mohammad.
How can we know this. Notice I said "know" not "believe", beliefs are jejune and for children. You claim to be a witness, to witness something one has to experience a claim with their primary senses, do you somehow have access to sensory data that nobody else does?@hawk99
I believe you are sincere in your disbelief and appear to be devoid of spiritual guidance at this point in your life
Oh that fuzzy nebulous word "spiritual". The only spirits that are reality based to me so far are Gin and Vodka, I'm bored of these stretchable wishy washy terms.@Man of Faith
I thought this was a forum for emancipated minds as the title suggests, not those in subservience and enslaved to an imaginary semetic deity! -
@hawk99
I believe you are sincere in your disbelief and appear to be devoid of spiritual guidance at this point in your life
Oh that fuzzy nebulous word "spiritual". The only spirits that are reality based to me so far are Gin and Vodka, I'm bored of these stretchable wishy washy terms.@JiburIshman
You left out the rest of my post,
There are many nonbelievers on the planet, so you have lots of company, that's the way it goes, Allah guides whom
he pleases, so sorry. There are two sides, If you are happy with your atheism and "spirits" ) I am sure shaytayn
is pleased with you! -
welcome welcome
No, I found no convincing reason to think it is true. I'll elaborate a bit more on why no thinking person should either.
From researching the matter and and being self inquisitive I found the concept of god/allah abstract and vague and felt it was a slimey way out of proving he exists objectively. What i heard was that when it suited islamic apologists they knew exactly how god/allah was, but then when difficult questions are posed he suddenly becomes "mysterious" & "we cant understand his ways".... it was one paradox after another, it was eating the cake and not having it at the same time......i felt it was eating the cake and not having it at the same time.
In time you'll learn to appreciate the beauty of paradox..
And the paradox is the foundation of every thing..God/Allah was supposed to be sentient, but then i knew all sentient objects were made of observable matter and no observable conscious matter had ever been demonstrated of any claimed deity, whether it Allah, Zeus or Ahura Mazda. Ultimately i found no objective proof for an objective claim, nor has anybody ever.
God was sentient and a deity???
As for having faith, which religionists tell u to have, I find that nobody has ever mentioned faith for that which has proof. It just came across as a a desperate emotional substitute/plea. Faith in fact I found to be a vice as it's insincere, it's pretending to be certain of things you possibly can't know.
Having faith in something that "we don't know" and having faith in something that "we do know is false / not true" is a totally different thing.
And faith doesn't need any evidence..
Faith is an attitude..And you do have faith, you have faith that you will still be alive tomorrow although you don't really know whether that's true or not as it can't be proven as of now. Nonetheless that unproven faith of yours definitely shape your action for today.
Ultimately with all religions providing no objective proof or bad equivocal evidence(full of non-sequitors, sophistry, word games etc ) and all saying you need the feel good factor and goosebumps of faith there was no way to validate any as true for me.
You're mistaken, some elements within religion can be validated to be not true..
And some elements within religion can be validated to be true.. -
Well jiburl, I believe in a higher power, but that entity is not an object of any kind and my perception is similar to pantheism, although I dislike to use the -ism suffix. This causes any kind of ritual worship or ways to please the god to be redundant, in my view. It has big support from the Arabic scripture that I study.
And I have grasped enough to understand that higher power does not deal in labels but only attributes, so naming a religion is unnecessary and taking a label for yourself is also unneeded. The prophets did not say they adhered to this or that but only followed the ways of their ancestors. They talked about being one with the higher power, or Elah, i.e. "is that it is", no fancy talk there, and act in asymbiotic way with it, and rather feel "synchronized" with it than treating it as distant from yourself as people do when they have their God as a separate object as in Paganism.
I suppose you would understand my view if you read other threads where I have posted.
Be of one with 'is that it is' (God)
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Peace JiburIshman.
I do not know what the future brings for you or if you will change. I certainly hope so?
You must have heard of Qoran, have you ever looked at what it is saying?
At this moment of time ,according to your posts, in my opinion, you do not believe?.
If you do not believe, here is what Qoran says about disbelieversAs for those who disbelieve, it is the same for them; whether you warn them, or not warn them, they cannot believe.*
*26-7 Those who make a decision to reject God are helped in that direction; they are prevented by God from seeing any proof or guidance for as long as they maintain such a decision. The consequences of such a disastrous decision are spelled out in Verse 7.
God seals their minds and their hearing, and their eyes are veiled. They have incurred severe retribution.
We control their minds and their hearts. Thus, since their decision is to disbelieve, we leave them in their transgressions, blundering.
May be you do not believe this? Nevertheless, here is the consequence
Anyone who opposes God, and His angels, and His messengers, ... should know that God opposes the disbelievers.
They are the ones who have disbelieved in the scripture, and in the messages we have sent with our messengers. Therefore, they will surely find out.
Even if we sent down to them a physical book, written on paper, and they touched it with their hands, those who disbelieved would have said, "This is no more than clever magic."
Maybe we will have a different conversation in the future? Hoping.
Can I also add, you are entitled to your opinions and decisions.GOD bless you anyway.
Peace. -
Just bumped across this site accidentally
About me, Im in 20's from London, raised an an islamic tradition. Had always been indifferent and passive to islam, then looked at it a few years ago and pretty much realised all the supernatural/paranormal claims are complete garbage and nonsensical mumbo jumbo.
Hello and welcome to the forum! )
Please when you are in a group discussing ideas I?d recommend to try using "I think that tihs is a lie" "My opinion is this is false" "In my point of view..." because otherwise someone could feel offended.
Having this said, every human being in this world has the right to have an opinion and to change it or not with time. Feel free to question all the posts you have doubts about and to learn from the forum if you want to.I don?t know if you want my advice but I think you should look for your own truth, life will show you and you will learn, that?s a positive attitude, don?t obey people blindly and always respect each others opinions. They may be wrong or bad, or they may not. Maybe they?re right, but everyone has a path to complete. In fact, we are all ignorants trying to find something true in this deceptive life (imo).
Also, always have a space in your heart for doubts (dont be afraid of being wrong D ) and dont be too pride! And thats my mini-useless guide to life , lol. I hope you didnt fall asleep reading all of this.Btw youre very young (and so I am P ) so just give yourself time to learn about life and dont let people or your own mind obsess you about anything/forget the important things as long as you dont harm others.
Peace! and do good.
Welcome again! )
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I think the problem is in viewing islam as a religion and Allah as a god or deity. What if this is a misconception? Allah as far as I can understand is not a being that exists at some point in space time. Rather understand it as a force which cause everything to exist. Tesla once remarked matter don't have energy on its own rather it draws energy from a all permeating force which cause it to exist. Maybe that's why it is said in the quran east or west everything belongs to Allah. Is the force Allah or is it caused by Allah? I don't have an answer nor will I have an answer conclusively. But when we start thinking out of the box then slowly quran makes sense. Hope this helps!
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Spiritual wellbeing upon you Shogun,
Allah is a god per position of power, although one must pay attention to the fact God is also not an object but an omnipresent phenomenon, so you cannot have contact with this "force" like you would with something with form, hence traditional forms of prayer and ritualistic glorification moves would appear out of place. God hears uttered words, but God also knows them before you open your mouth, hence one's prayers do not need to be repeated over and over again, like Pagans and their many words.
And since God does not take up any space being non-physical you can stand in God's light in symbiosis and right under God without interfering or challenging God in any way. And remember my talk is usually allegorical since it is difficult to explain the phenomenon of God except through them. And since God is also in all locations simultaneously and in non-physical presence meaning you can be in the light of God wherever you are and whoever you are, if you have decided to "be of one" with God. It is easy, do good while fading out that ego, seeking harmony with one's own soul and work towards cleansing out evil parts of it and one will more or less automatically grant "God's favor". And the purer the soul, the easier it will be to continue that path of good, hence one is helped that way. Similarly is for those who do poorly and let their soul get all those negative connotations which are connected to one's ego; they will be helped that opposite way.
The whole mission could be said to erase as much of the ego as possible, becoming ultimately humble towards everything and not only God, and even treating your enemy good as much as you can, even if evil deeds must be stopped.
But as a summary can be said that one's whole personal integrity should be filled with the light of God as to the point where one barely no longer exist separate from God but one acts in symbiosis with God. One becomes of God since oneself cease to exist, filled with that spirit.
This is how I take it that the prophets along the line of the "Abrahamic" faith perceived God, without the sectarian ideologies which more fits the Pagan way of religion. They called God for Elah/Allah, which according to my analysis indicates to mean something like "be that it is", and that was their Rabb (loosely foundation). The Amen and Elah words indicate that they suggested that one walk in the spirit, much because God cannot be treated as an object and hence exists abstractly with no form or shape, is the beginning and the end and can thus not be worshipped using a Pagan mindset.
Be of one with God
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Telling someone who finds no convincing reason to think any deity or satan about is like telling a kid who don't believe in Santa that he won't get no presents for Christmas. It doesn't make a jot of difference!
a thinking. perceptable entity is sentient, but go ahead define god as you like. The definition of god to individuals has to remain elastic for belief to persist.
And you do have faith, you have faith that you will still be alive tomorrow although you don't really know
whether that's true or not as it can't be proven as of nowNo I don't have faith in being alive tomorrow, I'd say it's very probable that I will be, not certain. IF I was CERTAIN I'd be alive tomorrow then I'd have FAITH.
You're mistaken, some elements within religion can be validated to be not true..
And some elements within religion can be validated to be true..I'm referring to the supernatural/paranormal claims not being true. Parts of religious scriptures can be true ie places/cities etc, but that's no proof for the supernatural twaddle. Kings Cross Station in the Harry Potter books is a real place, but that doesn't mean all the magic in the Harry Potter books is.
@good logic
I don't care about beliefs, I care about demonstrable knowledge for objective claims.
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a thinking. perceptable entity is sentient, but go ahead define god as you like. The definition of god too individuals has too remain elastic for belief to persist.
The definition of "god" does varies.. that's a fact..
And you do have faith, you have faith that you will still be alive tomorrow although you don't really know
whether that's true or not as it can't be proven as of nowNo I don't have faith in being alive tomorrow, I'd say it's very probable that I will be, not certain. IF I was CERTAIN I'd be alive tomorrow then I'd have FAITH.
Your 'probability' is based on an 'assumption'.
The 'assumption' is 'faith' and 'faith' doesn't need to be in 100% certainty..
Faith is a spectrum.. that's why there's a 'weak' faith and 'strong' faith..The 'faith' shall then shape your action / deed..
It's actually the action / deed that's important and not the faith..You're mistaken, some elements within religion can be validated to be not true..
And some elements within religion can be validated to be true..I'm referring to the supernatural/paranormal claims not being true. Parts of religious scriptures can be true ie places/cities etc, but that's no proof for the supernatural twaddle. Kings Cross Station in the Harry Potter books is a real place, but that doesn't mean all the magic in is.
The definition of which phenomenon is "natural" or "supernatural" is dependent on the eye of the beholder.
During ancient times, such as the times when the Quran was initially being written, even the rain, earthquake, lunar eclipse or sun movement are all 'supernatural' phenomenon.
The Egyptians used to believe that there's a god, shaped like a centipede who towed the sun to move..
The Indians used to believe that there's a giant shaped god tried to eat the moon during the lunar eclipse.To us, now, the sun movement and the lunar eclipse is all 'natural' phenomenon..
Why?
Because now we have gained an understanding / knowledge of such phenomenon.Thus, when you've gained an understanding of what "God" is, then "God" shall become "natural"..
To me "God" is not "supernatural" at all.. to me "God" is natural..Thus be specific on which idea do you think that's 'supernatural' within the scripture..
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Peace JiburIsham.
How many scientific theories do you believe in?
For example do you believe in the "big bang theory"? How can it be demonstrated?How old is earth? Do you believe there are billions of galaxies? Why?
Generally speaking there are two types of scientific knowledge
- Scientific knowledge that is unlikely to change and is thus taken for granted (e.g. Water is composed of Hydrogen and Oxygen, or that gravity exists between any two bodies....etc.).
- Scientific knowledge that is not yet confirmed and is open to change (e.g. What triggered off the 'Big Bang'? What is gravity made of? How many universes are there? Or how did such gigantic energy come to be trapped within the minute space inside the atom?
Do you only believe Science as defined in 1.?
Do you check everything without having faith in anyone or anything?
If you look at what you are saying you will find a lot of "faith" in your beliefs.
But when it comes to what you"disagree with/hate/ have prejudice/misunderstand... you call it faith?
There may be those who will complain that a certain faith or another is too rigid and does not conform to modern standards, but they must, if they are honest with themselves, stop and question how well do modern standards conform to virtue and morality also.
I urge you to look again at GOD s words in Qoran with a clean mind. You will be amazed at what you find if you study it with sincerity and seek the help of the Author to understand it.
Try it ,you have nothing to loose but everything to gain.
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
Telling someone who finds no convincing reason to think any deity or satan about is like telling a kid who don't believe in Santa that he won't get no presents for Christmas. It doesn't make a jot of difference!
Again thank you for your honesty, I don't care if you believe or not. that's your problem, many people don't believe
until they are in need. I find it interesting that you turn to believers for a dialogue ) I also find it interesting that you
use the analogy of a kid to make your point.God bless
peace
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Instead of asking humans about the nature of God, read Quran. Faith is in every way personal. By hearing what others have to say you are just convincing yourself to give into group think.
You do sound like someone who came from the arranged group
http//www.illuminatigamerevealed.com/images/034-Blinded-By-Science-web.jpg"Science can prove anything" is too 40's. Einstein used to think like that. But now scientists have realized that science has its limits.