Greetings Infidels
-
Science doen't know everything, it knows alot of things. Religion doesn't know anything
I find the the anathema for Science on here astonishingly hypocritical, considering everyone is on here on a laptop/PC, something given to us by applied Science ROLLEYES
You thought I am against science? No, I am not. I just warn against overconfidence. You would know it only if you go in masters. From your discussion so far it seems that you have least amount of knowledge about both science and religion.
I have a very bad news for you. Whether it is UK or US, when the lawmakers work on ethical laws, they look into to religions esp, Bible, Torah and Quran. What is funny is that despite your rejection to religions, you are abiding by them. How do I know it? I am a student of Public Administration and ethical policy is a central theme I work with. Another bad news is that UK is number 4 country to adhere to Quran faithfully. Third, science cannot work without the help of patterns.
-
Religion brings people to the Pagan materialistic god which jiburl objects against, but that is not really what "god" is. The word "god" is a very poor choice actually, particularly when talking to someone who is ignorant of what it means.
Science explains what this universe really is. A mixture of different variations of energy. And what controls the atoms in the first place? What makes them have the characteristics that they have? A knowledgeable adherent to science should have far more questions regarding their existence than a narrow-minded Pagan-god obsessed person.
I find that anyone studied science should realize there is some kind of "higher intelligence" due to what they know. Not a god but a kind of 'Constancy', a force, something that caused creatures with all sorts of imaginative appearances to evolve.
Be of one in the 'Foundation' (rabb)
-
I always thought why in quran is is said there is no god only Allah ? So assuming quran to be divinely inspired , we have to take its word for it that is there is no god. In that case Allah cannot be a god. God is only an abstract projection of the human mind of the unknown. It can take many shapes and forms depending on circumstances. Rituals and religion follow because god requires religion and rituals. Then it is institutionalised through specific class of scholars and clergy. This class claim to have information about god. Whoever controls information controls the mind. Effectively men then become enslaved to this institutionalised religion and an exploitative cycle begins. Power play soon begins in the form of wars and politics. The way I see it religion has only acted in negative in the course of human progress. Maybe we need to think out of the box as quran commanded. Then we may see the truth for what it is.
-
Faith be upon you Shogunsami,
I always thought why in quran is is said there is no god only Allah ? So assuming quran to be divinely inspired , we have to take its word for it that is there is no god. In that case Allah cannot be a god.
You walk alright brother, there is no god in traditional regard but Allah is above being a god not being a concrete fathomable entity. And a person joins with "God" rather than remaining separate and they delete their ego and become assimilated IN God (not to be confused with being God propagated and misunderstood by some people). Only then they will enter the narrow gate of "God's" realm. All together fill up what is Allah. It is complicated to explain just as it is complicated how the universe works such as that scientists are unto right now.
It can take many shapes and forms depending on circumstances.
This is true, but you most observe that the Allah is the universe itself with its energy which is to us an illusion of solidity. It has just as much form as the energy of the universe. And this way it can also create through simply will it and it is, because the creation is formed out of the energy.
Rituals and religion follow because god requires religion and rituals. Then it is institutionalised through specific class of scholars and clergy. This class claim to have information about god.
They are a bunch of hypocrites like Jesus put it, the clerics and scholars.
Maybe we need to think out of the box as quran commanded. Then we may see the truth for what it is.
Exactly the way I am speaking. One must think out of the box. Only when being separate from the bias and conjecture the right faith will take form. The truth is one must separate the spirit from the flesh.
Be faithful to the Rabb
-
Thanks brother. I think we think alike. I still don't know if universe itself is Allah . I am thinking along the line of panentheism . It makes much more sense from what I gather from quran. The concept is the shared by Vedas and is found in Buddhism and Taoism. Even the Native American Indians shared the same belief. Maybe that is the message of quran. No deities remote controlling things. Everything happens on the basis of certain universal laws. Karma is real. You do good you get good. You do bad it will boomerang on you at some point in your life. So watch what you say and do. Do you think we should use the word god? At the end of the day word god only conjures an idea of deity in people's mind!
-
Faith be upon you Shogun,
I still don't know if universe itself is Allah
Okay. Perchance you shall see in time.
No deities remote controlling things.
No exactly. The Creator is not a remote being but we exist in it within an illusion that looks concrete. We must just come into realization with this until it is too late. The way of joining is letting ourselves get absorbed by aligning ourselves to accept that we exist in the Creator.
Karma is real. You do good you get good. You do bad it will boomerang on you at some point in your life.
Yes and no. I would say that it is a gauge that has -100 to +100 and in the shape you die will measure your change of being in the realm of the Creator. Below 0 and you are a Jinn, i.e. faithless being. Most people who just merely live their lives completely empty-minded and do only think within their little box can be said to be here, while the worst Jinns are rated from 0 to -100 and Shaitaan is likely -100. One bring his own Jinn-ness upon themselves. A Jinn cannot think straight and live in a delusion much like the ISIS (Islamic Satans InSane also called Islamic State). You can be religious and Jinn because it does not have anything to do with perceived belief for that kind of thing is just a part of sects. A Jinn is easy to fool and has square-like thinking because they follow like lemmings. They can think they are shrewd but since they think with their ego it is usually always connoted with some sort of disaster and mischief.
The worst human Jinns are the clerics and scholars in various sects. They have in common that they are highly susceptible to Paganism and rituals and they interpret scriptures in a sterile way and if they do not know some interpretation for sure they fall to conjecture and guesswork in their pride not to look bad in front of others. And they love traditions without verifying or questioning wherever they come from or if they are against ancient decrees of the Creator. Oh yes, I forgot to mention that they only see the world materialistically, so a god is always portrayed like a physical object with understandable and earthly traits rather than abstract entity. Their worst deception is their hypocrisy about faith while at least secular Jinns are honest that they have no faith.
Otherwise from 0 to +100 you have faith of varying degree, but if you cannot think outside of the box like in the narratives about 'Jesus' in the Biblical scriptures then you have weak faith. When one thinks "Everything is possible, nothing is impossible", then one has faith. If you pray and you have faith it comes true, then both does it likely come true sooner or later and you show strong faith.
So watch what you say and do.
Yes. Even sneering at people has its detrimental effect.
Do you think we should use the word god?
I dislike the word for it misrepresents the Creator. Until now I have used "God" with quotation marks. It is not that I do not have faith in a superpower above everything, absolutely not, but I also do not wish to make an image out of the Creator because I know this is a big fallacy as according to the 'Law of Moses', which people do not really understand. You need to enter the one image abstractly rather than paint an image separately.
'Allah' is a very good Arabic word, but it feels unnecessary to maintain Arabic terminology for words you know their meaning of, although I know no substitute to the word 'Allah' at this time (be THAT (be) thereby or simply IS THAT IS).
At the end of the day word god only conjures an idea of deity in people's mind!
I wonder how many men have turned insane because of the god delusion. People often look for the wrong thing when they think of a god. One must diminish the separate image of "God" and instead attain it himself to enter the realm. The Creator is like the 'Borg' in Star Trek, you join a collective and share the strength by belonging to it and its foundation is the Creator, although in reality The Creator is not so dogmatic as in the fiction, but I hope you get my point.
But if you seek an object as entity you will look for the wrong things and if you worship in a Pagan way it is futile. You cannot bribe your way into the realm through many words like if you could impress the Creator. No, it is the deeds and behavior that will bring the one into the realm. Delete that ego, pride, arrogance, desire, and you shall enter the narrow gate. And the realm exists as we speak, just get assimilated. Cease to exist in the flesh and attain spirit form and you will immediately feel much lighter.
This is why it is harder for the greedy people. The one that has nothing to lose, has little flesh too, for the pride in the flesh causes one to fail to attain the spirit. Jesus drew a parallel with nature and that the Creator sustains the animals without them being conscious about it and the same can be true for a human as well. We could learn something from his words.
Be faithful to the Rabb/Creator
-
@goodlogic
I respect the right for people to believe in a invisible, impalpable higher power and performing prayer rituals to it. I don't respect that as a intellectual belief, but a belief one has the right to hold with no interference from the state as long as that person causes no physical harm to others or use that belief as a validation to subject others(as many muslims do with islamic scriptures and some jews do with Judaism)
Similarly I don't find astrology a respectable/intelligent belief but I don't think holding astrological beliefs should lead to criminal prosecutions.
In thinking critically I think it's better to abstain from believing in objective claims until sufficient evidence is provided and if you do believe without evidence in my opinion requires alot of gullibility and a false methodology of ascertaining objective claims.
@Man of Faith
Quantum physics only prove the phenomenon of "God" or a 'Constancy' effect even better.
Quantam Physics shows no empirical proof of any god or the role of any god in the mechanism. If you are able to provide "PROOF" of a god involved in any Scientific process I suggest you submit your data and becomed renowned for discovering a "god" and then recieve a Nobel Prize too.
My point about Quantam physics was related to it demonstrating how not everything created requires a cause. Hence making god completely redundant.
But it is not fallible to think a "background intelligence" is needed for life to evolve. Either that little cell is very intelligent or there is higher intelligence.
I wouldn't regard humans as particularly intelligent. Granted we are more intelligent than other species but we define ourselves with the superlative of "intelligent" by our own standards. If there is a species out there in the universe 1.5% smarter than us watching us than us they'd be saying "look at these dumb humans, we are the intelligence ones"
It is not a fallible argument at all, or how would you expect that the universe with its energy have everything
bind together. I find it is more fallible and irrational saying there is no "higher power".We don't know all the answers yet, being honest and humble and saying "I don't know" for what Science doesn't know is how Science works. Absolute certainty without a crumb of proof is the domain of religion/theism/deists.
The same question could be posed to you. How does gods energy bind together as one and from where. Of course you'd then use the special pleading fallacy of "ohhh but there's different rules for god"
You think nature knew what looks nice? What caused gravity to exist?Why do atoms stick together and form molecules?
These are just arguements from ignorance and the notable god of the gaps fallacy.
it seems you're very uncomfortable with answers of "we don't know yet". This is why it's problematic
http//i.imgur.com/a1U4S6H.jpgReligion brings people to the Pagan materialistic god which jiburl objects against, but that is not really what "god" is. The word "god" is a very poor choice actually, particularly when talking to someone who is ignorant of what it means.
My second reply showed I'm not ignorant of what god means and you're doing exactly what I said theists do
with the term god lol
God is a slippery term that means many different things and can mean anything. When something can mean anything it can't mean anything.@reel
You thought I am against science? No, I am not.not you specifically, the general vibe amongst replies.
From your discussion so far it seems that you have least amount of knowledge about both science and religion.
Right let's resort to ad hominems
I have a very bad news for you. Whether it is UK or US, when the lawmakers work on ethical laws, they look into to religions esp, Bible, Torah and Quran.
This is just patently false and the most preposterous and ridicilous thing anyone has said in this thread so far. In the UK and many US states The more gay friendly laws are completely antithetical to homophobic abrahamic scriptures. Also how does the freedom of religion abide by the abrahamic scriptures which tell you to kill people for leaving the religion ?
What is funny is that despite your rejection to religions, you are abiding by them.
lol, another stupid baseless comment. I do many harmless things which would be regarded as "sin" by religions.
Another bad news is that UK is number 4 country to adhere to Quran faithfully.
I highly doubt that, not many people in the uK take sex slaves and behead people as endorsed in the quran. -
Peace JiburIshman.
Thank you for your reply.
Since you believe in Science but not in a Designer/Creator, here is some Science
http//submission.org/sign_in_the_universe.html
GOD bless you.
Peace. -
I don't believe in Science but accept the evidence provided for claims. The thing thing with Science is that it's true whether you choose to believe it or not.
As for the Pseudoscience of looking for science in the quran, id say check out this from a qualified muslim scientist
http//tribune.com.pk/story/238607/the-science-of-scriptures/