Human vs Jinn Powers
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In the following verses Chapter 27 Namal
2738 He said ?O commanders, which of you can bring me her throne before they come to me in submission??
2739 A powerful being from among the Jinn said ?I will bring it
to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy.?
2740 And one who had knowledge from the Book said ?I will bring it to you before you blink.? So when he saw it resting before him, he said ?This is from the grace of my Lord, so that He tests me whether I am thankful or whether I reject. As for he who is thankful, he is thankful for himself, and as for he who rejects, then my Lord is Rich, Bountiful.?My question is that in the verse 39, it is Jinn is mentioned but in the verse 40, it is not explicitly mentioned was it a jinn or a man? If it was a man who is mentioned as "one who had the knowledge from the Book", then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles? And what is the Book that the person is talking about to Prophet Sulaiman? Was that a book like Quran available at the time or was it a book which contains all these miracles procedure etc?
Or the book mentioned here is a metaphor to the wisdom that God has given him?Moreover I am really excited if some of the members wanna have a discussion with me on skype
My skype id is Nick.fusions
Cheers
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Harmony be with you,
I do not consider 'Jinn' to be anything paranormal at all. A 'Jinn' is simply an individual who is your standard person without faith who does not really believe in anything. You can understand that based on his reply in the passages you gave. The 'Jinn' gives a generic reply based on what he can perceive with his narrow mind while the other person is wise from knowing "the ways" (al-ketaab).
Solomon according to the narration had an army of 'Jinns' and humans as per traditional translation, but the real translation is that he had people both with faith and without faith submissive to his cause. 'Jinn', the word, may be translated literally as "Low/submissive One" indicating that this person obeys to the laws of the universe/realm but has no spirit, much like your average shallow person without spirituality.
Be of one in "God"
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When Allah cast a dead body of the horses that the Prophet Sulaiman poised, he returned in repentance and sought from His God, for a kingdom that none shall possess after him. Then comes the graceful bounties from Allah for Sulaiman as unseen forces; first the wind is made to become subservient to Sulaiman's command; then the shaitans from among the jinns who construct buildings and deep sea divers; and those jinns that were chained. And in his assembly there were believing jinns from their submissive ranks; and the malayikas; and from among the chosen men who were raised as shahidis. Thus Sulaiman's assembly was complete with unseen powers that none after prophet Sulaiman shall possess as armies and as a kingdom. So wherever Sulaiman went his assembly was with him to obey to his command.
We men shall have mysterious powers by the leave of Allah when he raises the witnesses from the ranks of the believers. They are alive and are provided by the Creator and holds them high in dignity; they are not to be considered dead; so this is one of the mysterious nature of man even before his death as a witness to the Book. A witness is the one who is guided by Allah through his life. And Allah guides whom He Will.
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Jinn basically mean those things or people which are concealed from plain sight. Hence, snakes are called Jinn because they are hidden in the grass.
Another kind of Jinn are those elite people who are hidden from the general public, preferring to remain aloof from ordinary people.
I do not consider 'Jinn' to be anything paranormal at all. A 'Jinn' is simply an individual who is your standard person without faith who does not really believe in anything.
I do not agree with your assertion that Jinn are people who have no faith. There may be some Jinn who are faithless, in fact, most of them are described as devils, but this does not mean the definition of Jinn are those people who are "standard without faith".
On the contrary, Jinn are not standard, people, they are elite class of people who are concealed from the general public. Some of them believe in the Qur'an, as it is mentioned in Sura 4629-30
And when We directed to you a few of the Jinn, listening to the Qur'an. And when they attended it, they said, "Listen quietly." And when it was concluded, they went back to their people as warners.
They said, "O our people, indeed we have heard a Book revealed after Moses confirming what was before it which guides to the truth and to a straight path"So from this passage, you can see that when a party of Jinn listened to the Qur'an, it effected them and they went back to their people as Warners, giving them the message of the Qur'an.
The next verse indicates to us that they already had faith in Prophet Moses and the Torah. This shows us that this party of Jinn were actually Jews.
If you look to the Hadith, this will become clear to you. The Hadith and Islamic books of history have reported this incident in detail. The Jinn mentioned here were actually Jewish men from a place called Nasibin. (I think it is either in Syria or in Nakhlah, Yemen)
The Qur'an has referred to these elite Jews of Nasibin as "Jinn". Abdullah b. Mas'ud (R.A.) himself saw them, and described them as men who were wearing white clothes. According to a report, they were about seven men, and even their names have been preserved, for example, one of them was Ibn Alazab (the Son of Alazab).
So in the light of Hadith explanation, it is clear that the Jinn are not necessarily some kind of supernatural ghosts or spirits, but are men who are concealed from general public.
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Salaam Israfeel,
Mind that it is no assertion.
I do not agree with your assertion that Jinn are people who have no faith.
Faithless or whatever they are, they do not have that particular spirit you become blessed with by Allah. The example given by the creator of the thread suggest they are merely normal humans who cannot "think beyond the box". See his sample passages from Al-Qur'an.
2739 A powerful being from among the Jinn said ?I will bring it
to you before you rise from your station. For I am strong and trustworthy.?
2740 And one who had knowledge from the Book said ?I will bring it to you before you blink.? So when he saw it resting before him, he said ?This is from the grace of my Lord, so that He tests me whether I am thankful or whether I reject. As for he who is thankful, he is thankful for himself, and as for he who rejects, then my Lord is Rich, Bountiful.?You see one of the more talented 'Jinns' has confidence and exclaims that certainly he can do it with ease, but the blessed man with understanding had a more witted reply at his disposal. I am not really satisfied with the generic translations of the passages in the context though, but that is another question, it does not remove the argument here about the 'Jinn'. The 'Jinn' is a human and lacking that extra touch of Allah in him meaning he can only think as far as his eyes go, so to say.
There may be some Jinn who are faithless, in fact, most of them are described as devils, but this does not mean the definition of Jinn are those people who are "standard without faith".
I doubt that most would be described as bad as devils, but there are certainly a lot of them and it does not matter if they are entirely irreligious or religious. You can be part of a mainstream sect and be a Jinn. Being religious does not automatically mean you have faith, so you are right that 'Jinns' can be religious, but doubtfully they can have real faith.
Jinn basically mean those things or people which are concealed from plain sight.
From where do you derive this understanding, I have never seen a statement like this? If you say "hadith" then I am not surprised, and I would not share your understanding. From my ability to decipher the Arabic words the word 'Jinn' has nothing to do with something invisible per meaning. There are surely confusing interpretations out there, but Jinn has nothing to do with physical shape and a 'Jinn' is a person without spirit. If a 'Jinn' would be hidden from plain sight you also have problems reconciling the Arabic passages of Qur'an. It simply does not add up. The paranormal 'Jinn' is just a part of the conjecture of men just like pretty much else in "Islam" except what the Qur'an really says.
Hence, snakes are called Jinn because they are hidden in the grass.
I doubt that explanation. It is rather that snakes were considered as "lowly beings" as per tradition and the original Jewish scriptures which speak of the serpent that beguiled Adam in Paradise, and thus why they adopted to symbolize snake in Arabic. It is not so hard to draw the parallels. And like I wrote above, linguistically 'Jinn' has no relation to something hidden.
Another kind of Jinn are those elite people who are hidden from the general public, preferring to remain aloof from ordinary people.
A 'Jinn' is not a particular being as I previously wrote, but it is a kind of soul, or rather the state of it. chose to be a 'Jinn'.
Some of them believe in the Qur'an, as it is mentioned in Sura 4629-30
These people are narrow-minded sectarians who are faithless but adhere to their traditions and conjecture hypocritically. This is why they are 'Jinns'. Perchance they become full of faith after the scenario of 4629-30 ensh'Allah and find the errors in their ways. They are called 'Jinns' because they lack a real relationship to Allah and that is what is referred to in the passages you supplied. They lack "spiritual depth".
So from this passage, you can see that when a party of Jinn listened to the Qur'an, it effected them and they went back to their people as Warners, giving them the message of the Qur'an.
Ensh'Allah they perhaps stopped being 'Jinns' after that.
The next verse indicates to us that they already had faith in Prophet Moses and the Torah. This shows us that this party of Jinn were actually Jews.
Like I wrote above, they were hypocritically adhering to traditions and values, but they did not have that particular spirit. They were faithless. It is likely that these individual people were 'Jews' in the narration. And you also contradict your statement about "concealed from plain sight" that you mentioned in your post. This are your mainstream 'Jews' as you said yourself here.
If you look to the Hadith, this will become clear to you. The Hadith and Islamic books of history have reported this incident in detail. The Jinn mentioned here were actually Jewish men from a place called Nasibin. (I think it is either in Syria or in Nakhlah, Yemen)
I prefer not. I have difficulty enough turning Qur'an right without dealing with poor quality hearsay which not even half of it is true even if one interprets the Arabic accurately in them. But if what you write about the Jewish men is true then so be it, it does not really matter anyway, albeit you have a problem now with your statement about invisible beings.
The Qur'an has referred to these elite Jews of Nasibin as "Jinn". Abdullah b. Mas'ud (R.A.) himself saw them, and described them as men who were wearing white clothes. According to a report, they were about seven men, and even their names have been preserved, for example, one of them was Ibn Alazab (the Son of Alazab).
Is "elite" an excuse for making an exception for these 'Jinns' from your invisible 'Jinns"?
So in the light of Hadith explanation, it is clear that the Jinn are not necessarily some kind of supernatural ghosts or spirits, but are men who are concealed from general public.
Your statement does not make sense. Even if they live in seclusion they are still visible people? And it is not like you have the Arabic with you either in terms of the meaning.
Amen b'Allah
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The 'Jinn' is a human and lacking that extra touch of Allah in him meaning he can only think as far as his eyes go, so to say.
What is the evidence of this your assertion?
From my ability to decipher the Arabic words the word 'Jinn' has nothing to do with something invisible per meaning.
Jinn, which is derived from the root J-N-N, has the connotation "to shield, to cover, to engulf, shield, enclosure, place of hiding; the world of jinn, the hidden people; night; grave; heart, inside, foetus; garden, verdant, madness; snake" (Arabic-English Dictionary of Qur'anic Usage, P. 175)
The same dictionary defines Jinn as "hidden beings generally including the jinn and angels" (p. 176)
Angels are referred to as Jinnatun in Sura 7158
The Qur'an refers to fetuses as aljinnatun/janin in Sura 5332
So this is quite established from the Arabic language that Jinn carries a connotation of something that is hidden from plain view.
And like I wrote above, linguistically 'Jinn' has no relation to something hidden.
The Arabic dictionary proves you wrong. Jaan also means snake, as proven from Sura 2710. The staff of Moses turned into a Snake, and the word used in the Qur'an is Jaan.
And you also contradict your statement about "concealed from plain sight" that you mentioned in your post. This are your mainstream 'Jews' as you said yourself here. Is "elite" an excuse for making an exception for these 'Jinns' from your invisible 'Jinns"? Your statement does not make sense. Even if they live in seclusion they are still visible people? And it is not like you have the Arabic with you either in terms of the meaning.
You've misunderstood me. By hidden or invisible I do not mean it in a literal sense. I gave you the example of the snake. Snakes are clearly physical, visible creatures that many of us have seen with our own eyes.
But snakes are a type of Jinn because they tend to be concealed by their nature. They hide in the grass and holes in the ground. It's difficult to perceive a snake. Likewise, fetuses are also referred to as Jinn, because they are concealed in the womb. Angels have also been referred to as a kind of Jinn because they are invisible.So first off, we have to establish and understand that there are several types of Jinn based on the Arabic language and even different examples of the Quran I already gave.
However, the common type of Jinn that most people think about when the word Jinn is mentioned are a type of people who remain aloof from the ordinary people. They are the elite. They are not literally invisible as if they were ghosts or spirits. I am not claiming that at all. I am saying they are referred to as Jinn because they remain aloof and hidden in their own world, but at times they emerge, as mentioned in Sura 4629 and Sura 721
Finally, there are the Jinn which are popularly known as demons, devils, Iblis, evil spirits etc. That is a difficult subject and presently I do not have enough knowledge to discuss about their reality, nor do I think it is necessary to do so.
As for men from among the Jinn, the Rijaal min al Jinn (726) it is about them that I have been discussing all along so don't be confused.
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Have faith Israfeel,
What is the evidence of this your assertion?
The "evidence" is in the narrated stories in the Qur'an. You have the example of the Jinn in Suleiman's kingdom who came up with a "no-brainer". And the second "evidence" I have is from the innate meaning of the letters themselves that the word Jinn is composed from. I am not sure what else you want to hear? That your whole perception comes down like house of cards?
Jinn, which is derived from the root J-N-N, has the connotation "to shield, to cover, to engulf, shield, enclosure, place of hiding; the world of jinn
That may be true, but you apply the connotations erroneously. It is easy to see that these people are sealed from spiritual understanding just like Shaitaan. Very shallow ones who cannot understand anything just like the mainstream clerics and scholars.
Angels are referred to as Jinnatun in Sura 7158
You must have referred to the wrong verse since there is no such mention in the one you gave me.
The Qur'an refers to fetuses as aljinnatun/janin in Sura 5332
Even if it happens that the interpretation of the passage is entirely true, it does not prove anything.
The Arabic dictionary proves you wrong. Jaan also means snake, as proven from Sura 2710. The staff of Moses turned into a Snake, and the word used in the Qur'an is Jaan.
In fact it does not. It only makes it lame with your interpretation.
You've misunderstood me. By hidden or invisible I do not mean it in a literal sense.
Nor did I mean in a literal sense, because it is that they have sealed off spiritual awareness.
However, the common type of Jinn that most people think about when the word Jinn is mentioned are a type of people who remain aloof from the ordinary people. They are the elite. They are not literally invisible as if they were ghosts or spirits. I am not claiming that at all. I am saying they are referred to as Jinn because they remain aloof and hidden in their own world, but at times they emerge, as mentioned in Sura 4629 and Sura 721
Finally, there are the Jinn which are popularly known as demons, devils, Iblis, evil spirits etc. That is a difficult subject and presently I do not have enough knowledge to discuss about their reality, nor do I think it is necessary to do so.
As for men from among the Jinn, the Rijaal min al Jinn (726) it is about them that I have been discussing all along so don't be confused.
You are just relaying conjecture to me. Study it yourself instead of being fooled by the scholars and clerics. It has nothing to do with demons or supernatural entities, but it is talked about people who have no spiritual link to the Creator.
Have faith
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My question is that in the verse 39, it is Jinn is mentioned but in the verse 40, it is not explicitly mentioned was it a jinn or a man? If it was a man who is mentioned as "one who had the knowledge from the Book", then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles? And what is the Book that the person is talking about to Prophet Sulaiman? Was that a book like Quran available at the time or was it a book which contains all these miracles procedure etc?
Or the book mentioned here is a metaphor to the wisdom that God has given him?Salamun Alaikum.
Per my humble understanding - The secretive one (jinn) wanted to steal the "throne" of Queen Sheba - but the one who had the knowledge from the book - was able to describe the "throne" of Queen Sheba to King Solomon in the blink of an eye. This signifies that the power of knowledge is superior to the military power. The unnamed "book" clearly included knowledge about Queen Sheba's kingdom/culture/practices. Indirectly this verse encourages the study of a broad spectrum of topics including books of other people and culture.
In today's context if we need to debate with an Atheist or a Christian or a Hindu or a Sunni about his faith, we need to have knowledge from their book so that we can recreate their "throne" in front of them and show them where we differ and where we agree. I believe thus Qur'an encourages at least some of us to read their books (including their holy books.)
For me whether the jinn was human or supernatural, or what book was that guy reading - are rather unnecessary questions, with little bearing on the message of the verse.
May Allah guide us all to the straight route.
Regards,
Arman -
Not a book at all! OMG
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Jinn, which is derived from the root J-N-N, has the connotation "to shield, to cover, to engulf, shield, enclosure, place of hiding; the world of jinn, the hidden people; night; grave; heart, inside, foetus; garden, verdant, madness; snake" (Arabic-English Dictionary of Qur'anic Usage, P. 175)
The same dictionary defines Jinn as "hidden beings generally including the jinn and angels" (p. 176)
Agreed
Peace,
We must also include "the soul" as hidden (the fetus is indeed hidden in the womb).
The jinn are beings that live inside the human (hidden), they are crazy folk, insane, psychopaths,
sociopaths, warriors and other such aberrant personalities, some are very intelligent and driven to
serve their needs/ego. Many successful and powerful business people are jinns also some
politicians, and not let us forget religious leaders/scholars. These folk are not like us "souls." They were
asked to serve us souls but they refuse, they serve Satan knowingly or unknowingly. They can also
be Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, or a member of any other religion.Just my two cents
peace
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Hawk99 is right except that the Jinn is not a separate being but the spirit a person attains.
Have faith
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Hawk99 is right except that the Jinn is not a separate being but the spirit a person attains.
Have faith
Peace Man of Faith,
You misunderstand me, the jinn is not separate from us, but to a degree is in all of us, those satanic
urges are internal, the purpose of submission, fasting, salat, zakat, remembrance, wisdom, understanding
and knowledge, are God given tools of purification that bring us closer to God and further from Satan.
Please re-read post 10 second sentence.And the devil will say, after the judgment had been issued, "GOD has promised you the truthful
promise, and I promised you, but I broke my promise. I had no power over you; I simply invited you,
and you accepted my invitation. Therefore, do not blame me, and blame only yourselves. My complaining
cannot help you, nor can your complaining help me. I have disbelieved in your idolizing me. The transgressors
have incurred a painful retribution."God bless you
peace
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My question is that in the verse 39, it is Jinn is mentioned but in the verse 40, it is not explicitly mentioned was it a jinn or a man? If it was a man who is mentioned as "one who had the knowledge from the Book", then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles? And what is the Book that the person is talking about to Prophet Sulaiman? Was that a book like Quran available at the time or was it a book which contains all these miracles procedure etc?
Or the book mentioned here is a metaphor to the wisdom that God has given him?Peace Fusion,
Knowledge of the book
1 Corinthians 1551-53King James Version (KJV)
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Quran The person is quoting 1 Corinthians 1551-53 King James Version
2740 One who had the knowledge of the Book said I will bring it to you in the twinkling of an eye.
Then when he saw it settled beside him, he said This is of the grace of my Lord that He may try me
whether I am grateful or ungrateful; and whoever is grateful, he is grateful only for his own soul, and
whoever is ungrateful, then surely my Lord is Self-sufficient, Honored.then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles?
As for hidden mysteries, that is a discussion of a more esoteric tilt, of which the Sufi, Shi'a, Sunni and other
sects, who have attempted, or as far as they may be concerned, answered such mysteries.God bless
peace
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Folks,
Its really difficult to understand the Quran if the actual meaning of the verses always hide something else and the literal meaning is a metaphor.
Does Allah really expected common people to attian high intellectual thoughts in order to understand the message? I mean isn't the message of God or most of it from the book should be simple enough for an ordinary some what wise and mature person to understand?
I have been reading posts on this forum and it appears that every verse which is discussed, turns out to have a meaning that i never though about it before.
What I understood from the last few posts is that jinn is not a separate physical being from people but is some thing logical within us , more like the bad thoughts or some thing which can be developed/triggered and then acted upon by our actions, then how we explain the verses that mentions Jinn or then perhaps these verses are also metaphors and a common person should not be able to understand their true meaning ever?
11119 Except whom your Lord has mercy upon; and for that He has created them. And the word of your Lord came true ?I will fill Hell with the Jinn and the people together!?1527 And the Jinn, We created him before that from the fire of the fierce hot winds
1788 Say ?If all mankind and the Jinn were to gather to bring a Qur?an like this, they could not come with its like, even if they were helping one another.?2717 And the soldiers of Solomon were gathered, comprising of mankind and Jinn and birds, for they were to be spread out.
4629 And We directed to you a company of Jinn, in order to let them listen to the Qur?an. So when they arrived there, they said ?Pay attention.? Then, when it was finished, they returned to their people, to warn them
I wonder if we complicate things which could be simple message or instructions from God?
CheersPS I was not able to locate this site through a proxy as it was blocked and i tried hard to find another proxy,, not sure how long will i be able to view the free minds webite... its really depressing.
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Folks,
Its really difficult to understand the Quran if the actual meaning of the verses always hide something else and the literal meaning is a metaphor.
Does Allah really expected common people to attian high intellectual thoughts in order to understand the message? I mean isn't the message of God or most of it from the book should be simple enough for an ordinary some what wise and mature person to understand?Peace Fusion,
) The deen is actually very simple, but if you are seeking to understand metaphors and allegories
which are more complicated, you will need to invest time and effort to arrive at conclusions that suit you.The Quran spans from simple instructions to the things that only those who are firmly rooted in knowledge understand
If you prefer guidance
2177
It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards east or West; but it is righteousness- to believe in
Allah and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out
of love for Him, for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the
ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer, and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have
made; and to be firm and patient, in pain (or suffering) and adversity, and throughout all periods of panic.
Such are the people of truth, the Allah-fearing.For me I prefer the guidance and take the allegories with a grain of salt!
My advice, maintain patience, enjoy your journey
peace
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Iblis is part of jinn kind. If jinn was a human that are hidden, so did ibliss who are exiled from janna also a human? I think jinn was somekind of a supranatural beeing. And he is co-exist with us.
Peace Farabi,
I accept your point of view on the subject, mine is not the only explanation, but let me ask you,
- Are the jinn Invisible?
God bless you
peace
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My question is that in the verse 39, it is Jinn is mentioned but in the verse 40, it is not explicitly mentioned was it a jinn or a man? If it was a man who is mentioned as "one who had the knowledge from the Book", then does it mean that we humans have the hidden mysterious power to perform what is termed as miracles? And what is the Book that the person is talking about to Prophet Sulaiman? Was that a book like Quran available at the time or was it a book which contains all these miracles procedure etc?
Or the book mentioned here is a metaphor to the wisdom that God has given him?Kitab supposed to mean a "Record"... and not "Holy Book".
During Solomon times, the Tanakh, Gospel and Quran is nowhere available, all of them are non existent...
Even the paper and pen technology might not be invented yet..Knowledge from "The Record" there could be many possibilities.
Whether it's a "Jin", "Human" or even "Alien" or "Alien Jin" who possess such "Knowledge from the Record", nobody knows for sure..Moving object in a blink of an eye might involves some kind of "Matter Teleportation".
Theoretically possible, but the technology not yet widely available as per today on earth, but perhaps could already be common for those who came from another stars / galaxy and managed to get their sorry arse here on earth.
As some kind of "Matter Teleportation" must be performed to traverse many light years of distances... -
Peace Jafar.
Moving object in a blink of an eye might involves some kind of "Matter Teleportation".
We are doing this now. Beaming "live" from anywhere on earth or in the sky!
Yes indeed ,you can have a live conversation with someone in Australia or anywhere without going there. In the blink of an eye?
GOD bless you.
Peace.
