Bakka/Mecca
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You are only showing signs of prejudice when you are calling my arguments in that thread conjecture BEFORE even looking at them.
Peace
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"The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bibakkata (Bakkah) Blessed and a guidance for all kinds of beings" 003.096
Psalm 84
84.1 How amiable are thy tabernacles, O LORD of hosts!
84.2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD my heart and my flesh crieth out for the living God.
84.3 Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, even thine altars, O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God.
84.4 Blessed are they that dwell in thy house they will be still praising thee. Selah.
84.5 Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them.84.6 Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools.
Peace
And Bakah and mecca don't seem to ring a bell for you? Especially considering the fact that mecca lies within a valley? If 500 years down the line someone mentioned bombay, would we not associate that with mumbai of today?
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Lmao is that your argument seriously? The M and B can be interchanged at will? I guess that is how one who prays in the direction of a STONE would read Quran, aye!
It is not mecca. Mecca was never called Baca.
Peace
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Baca is a known place in Jerusalem. Mentioned in the Old Testament as well. If both Quran and Old Testament refer to the same Baca wouldn't you agree it speaks about Baca and not Mecca?
Peace
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Lmao is that your argument seriously? The M and B can be interchanged at will? I guess that is how one who prays in the direction of a STONE would read Quran, aye!
It is not mecca. Mecca was never called Baca.
Peace
Peace runninglikezebras, which direction do you face during prayer?
God bless you
peace
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Lmao is that your argument seriously? The M and B can be interchanged at will? I guess that is how one who prays in the direction of a STONE would read Quran, aye!
It is not mecca. Mecca was never called Baca.
Peace
Yes actually that is my argument because it makes sense if you've ever read history related to many cities in the world. I belong to Peshawar city, it was called Puruapura in ancient times and it is still called Pekhawar today by many people. Mumbai of today was bombay of just a decade ago. Names of places may change slightly. That is not something any historian worth his salt would ever disagree with. You are an amateur and trying to look at these issues through amaturish goggles. That is why you find issues where none actually exist.
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Baca is a known place in Jerusalem. Mentioned in the Old Testament as well. If both Quran and Old Testament refer to the same Baca wouldn't you agree it speaks about Baca and not Mecca?
Peace
Baka of jerusalum was established in the late 19th century. And its official name is Geulim. So yea, I do not compare this place to Mecca or becca of the Quran.
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Peace runninglikezebras, which direction do you face during prayer?
God bless you
peace
Jerusalem.
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Even before I ever read Quran Jerusalem was like a magnet to me. I hope you understand this confusion is inexplicable to me.
Peace
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Yes actually that is my argument because it makes sense if you've ever read history related to many cities in the world. I belong to Peshawar city, it was called Puruapura in ancient times and it is still called Pekhawar today by many people. Mumbai of today was bombay of just a decade ago. Names of places may change slightly. That is not something any historian worth his salt would ever disagree with. You are an amateur and trying to look at these issues through amaturish goggles. That is why you find issues where none actually exist.
Well you have a problem with conjecture but here you are making a conjecture yourself find proof of mecca ever being called baca. Once you find it, it stops being conjecture.
Peace
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Baka of jerusalum was established in the late 19th century. And its official name is Geulim. So yea, I do not compare this place to Mecca or becca of the Quran.
This is an outright lie. Historical source?
The Baca valley is a geographical feature in the Jerusalem landscape that has never been known otherwise.
Peace
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Well you have a problem with conjecture but here you are making a conjecture yourself find proof of mecca ever being called baca. Once you find it, it stops being conjecture.
Peace
I'm not the one claiming that the mecca of today never existed as the qibla for Muslims. Overwhelming historical record show that Islam started from Mecca in the Hijaz. It is you claiming to have knowledge to oppose the majority view. Hence it is up to you to prove your point.
You claim baka in jerusalem, I say this place did not even exist at that time. Prove me wrong.
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This is an outright lie. Historical source?
The Baca valley is a geographical feature in the Jerusalem landscape that has never been known otherwise.
Peace
Can you give me any historical proof to back up your claim to this baca valley being in jerusalem?
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There is no historical record of Islam starting in the Hijaz region except for hadith fabrications of which the earliest date 300 years after muhammads death.
Old Testament evidence
The word Baca is derived from the root which means to weep, but it nowhere means weeping, for which words of a different form are used. Here, as in 2 Samuel 523, it probably denotes some kind of balsam-tree, so called from the ?tears? of gum which it exudes. The vale of Baca or the balsam-trees was some vale which, like the vale of Elah or the terebinth (1 Samuel 172), and the vale of Shittim or acacias, took its name from the trees which grew there. Balsam-trees are said to love dry situations, growing plentifully for example in the arid valley of Mecca; and this is clearly the point of the reference. The vale of Baca was some waterless and barren valley through which pilgrims passed on their way to Jerusalem; but faith turns it into a place of springs, finding refreshment under the most untoward circumstances, while God refreshes them with showers of blessing from above, as the autumnal rains clothe the dry plains with grass and flowers.
This confirms the Jews knew of a Baca in Jerusalem.
Quran, as demonstrated also mentions Baca. Confirming, not rejecting the Jewish concept. Where is your proof this Baca of the jews is the wrong baca but should be mecca?
For me this is sufficient proof. Quran mentions the same place, and doesn't state the Jewish are placing this baca wrongly. Logic demands it must refer to Jerusalem.
Peace
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For an imported word denoting a placename the double K is possible. Baca imported from hebrew into arabic can undergo that kind of change.
You think it is coincidence both verses in Old Testament and Quran using that placename attach the same symbolic value Gods first House?
Peace
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There is no historical record of Islam starting in the Hijaz region except for hadith fabrications of which the earliest date 300 years back.
There is no record of Islam starting from Hijaz? Other than the fact that it was a vast nation which spread throughout the world within a few decades of the Prophets death and they brought their history with them. Are you really trying to say that this vast nation of people one day sat together and decided that we will lie to the world that we came from the Hijaz while we actually came from ______ (fill in the blank). Or are you saying that this nation of Muslims never even existed and that also is a figment of our imagination?
Old Testament evidence
The word Baca is derived from the root which means to weep, but it nowhere means weeping, for which words of a different form are used. Here, as in 2 Samuel 523, it probably denotes some kind of balsam-tree, so called from the ?tears? of gum which it exudes. The vale of Baca or the balsam-trees was some vale which, like the vale of Elah or the terebinth (1 Samuel 172), and the vale of Shittim or acacias, took its name from the trees which grew there. Balsam-trees are said to love dry situations, growing plentifully for example in the arid valley of Mecca; and this is clearly the point of the reference. The vale of Baca was some waterless and barren valley through which pilgrims passed on their way to Jerusalem; but faith turns it into a place of springs, finding refreshment under the most untoward circumstances, while God refreshes them with showers of blessing from above, as the autumnal rains clothe the dry plains with grass and flowers.
This confirms the Jews knew of a Baca in Jerusalem.
Quran, as demonstrated also mentions Baca. Confirming, not rejecting the Jewish concept. Where is your proof this Baca of the jews is the wrong baca but should be mecca?
For me this is sufficient proof. Quran mentions the same place, and doesn't state the Jewish are placing this baca wrongly. Logic demands it must refer to Jerusalem.
Peace
Since you didn't have any actual historian backing up your claim to baca ever being a place in Jerusalem, you decided to refer to the bible? Is that your proof? The Quran corrects the bible, and the Torah, it does not confirm it.
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?The Valley of Rephaim lay southwest of Jerusalem and formed part of the boundary between Judah and Benjamin (Joshua 15. It may correspond to the ?Valley of Baca? (Psalm 846), due to the balsam trees that were there (1 Chronicles 1414-15). These are named, literally, ?weepers? because of their drops of milky sap.? (Payne)
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There is no record of Islam starting from Hijaz? Other than the fact that it was a vast nation which spread throughout the world within a few decades of the Prophets death and they brought their history with them. Are you really trying to say that this vast nation of people one day sat together and decided that we will lie to the world that we came from the Hijaz while we actually came from ______ (fill in the blank). Or are you saying that this nation of Muslims never even existed and that also is a figment of our imagination?
Since you didn't have any actual historian backing up your claim to baca ever being a place in Jerusalem, you decided to refer to the bible? Is that your proof?
I'm saying the early muslims had mixed ethnicity, arab, jewish, persian and god knows what else. I don't deny the later caliphs were mostly arab-centered. But well we know what Quran says about Arabs and their faith...
Peace
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You still have some questions to answer OnlyOneGodButMultipelQiblas...
Where does Quran say this baca the Jewish believe is not the right baca it should be mecca.
Who are the christians Quran mentions being at the Qiblah? Christians in mecca at that time? Seriously?
Peace