Bakka/Mecca
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Another question, if you say the m and b are interchangeable, how do you explain the other reference the sectarians distort uses an M and not a B for the supposedly the same placename? Does Quran contradict?
Peace
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I'm saying the early muslims had mixed ethnicity, arab, jewish, persian and god knows what else. I don't deny the later caliphs were mostly arab-centered. But well we know what Quran says about Arabs and their faith...
Peace
So this mixed ethnicity of arabs, jewish, persian etc got together and decided to create an imaginary place called Mecca. Then decided to make the whole muslim world believe that Islam started from that place. Then forced people to call it their qibla.
When and how did this all actually take place?
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You can read the history of that in the biographies of the early caliphs. None of which who were appointed by God.
My dear friend at the time Quran was written THERE WAS NO MASJID AL HARAM in mecca! They constructed this later, put a meteorite in it. Returned to their arab pagan ways. Like Quran says some of them will turn on their heels and continue their old polytheistic ways. I consider you one of them.
Peace
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Another question, if you say the m and b are interchangeable, how do you explain the other reference the sectarians distort uses an M and not a B for the supposedly the same placename? Does Quran contradict?
Peace
I'm not saying that Quran contradicts, I'm saying that the name of a place may change over time. Especially when this place became more widely mentioned by people of other nations and arabs of other dialects.
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The entire architecture of the masjid al haram in Mecca is a copy of the second temple that used to be in Jersulem. Can't you see? Which is older the second temple or the masjid al haram in mecca?
Peace
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I'm not saying that Quran contradicts, I'm saying that the name of a place may change over time. Especially when this place became more widely mentioned by people of other nations and arabs of other dialects.
It may change over time but no way God will use an m here and a b there to denote the same placename.
Peace
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You can read the history of that in the biographies of the early caliphs. None of which who were appointed by God.
My dear friend at the time Quran was written THERE WAS NO MASJID AL HARAM in mecca! They constructed this later, put a meteorite in it. Returned to their arab pagan ways. Like Quran says some of them will turn on their heels and continue their old polytheistic ways. I consider you one of them.
Peace
Well Allah also talks about people who deal in conjecture. You are trying to make things up without any proof. Good luck with that, i'm sure you'll find many followers.
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I feel like when you are looking at masjid al haram I'm looking at you like you are person who is looking at a replica ferrari with a volkswagen engine under the hood. But you don't seem to take my word it's not a ferrari.
Peace
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Well Allah also talks about people who deal in conjecture. You are trying to make things up without any proof. Good luck with that, i'm sure you'll find many followers.
Not interested in followers. I'll leave the mass recruiting to the rock-worshippers. The way it's meant to be. Consider me a witness.
Peace
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It may change over time but no way God will use an m here and a b there to denote the same placename.
Peace
God used the correct place name. You simply do not want to accept it.
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So God used makkatah to say mecca and in the other surah bakka to speak about the same place, both being mecca. You sir have the mind of an irrational goldfish.
Peace
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Don't you think when God uses a B God means B not M?
Either it's B or M one place can't possibly be referred to with different root word letters.
Peace
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So God used makkatah to say mecca and in the other surah bakka to speak about the same place, both being mecca. You sir have the mind of an irrational goldfish.
Peace
Both were mentioned so that people like you today would maybe understand. Peshawar of mine may be called pekhawar and no one would object as they are the name of the same place used in different dialects of Pashto or Pukhto. The fact that you can't understand is your own short coming. Nothing to with the message of God.
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Both were mentioned so that people like you today would maybe understand. Peshawar of mine may be called pekhawar and no one would object as they are the name of the same place used in different dialects of Pashto or Pukhto. The fact that you can't understand is your own short coming. Nothing to with the message of God.
Any other examples of this phenomenon in Quran using proper nouns? Give me one example of a placename in Quran that allows swapping of the M and B. Does Quran call Ibrahim "Imrahib"? It doesn't. Does Quran call Musa "Busa" as well? It doesn't. Where is your proof this change in root form still allows to mean the same identification?
Peace
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The objective truth is you can't just swap an M for a B. Either you accept that fact and agree they denote different things OR you admit you believe quran is no longer intact and preserved and writing errors were made.
Peace
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Any other examples of this phenomenon in Quran using proper nouns? Give me one example of a placename in Quran that allows swapping of the M and B. Does Quran call Ibrahim "Imrahib"? It doesn't. Does Quran call Musa "Busa" as well? It doesn't. Where is your proof this change in root form still allows to mean the same identification?
Peace
At the time the Quran was revealed there were many tribes of arabs this message was being conveyed to, and other than them were many non arabs who either lived there or traded there, who would have accepted islam. You are assuming that none of them used bakka for mecca. It is quite possible that many did do so, and hence the use of both words. This is more plausible than your version which puts bakka to be in Jerusalem, which no historian or actual historical record ever shows to be true.
There was never ever a bakka in Jerusalem but there was a Mecca in the Hijaz. What is more plausible?
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To turn to your faith I would have to overcome the following obstacles
- No historical record for mecca during Muhammads lifetime. Literally none.
- Masjid al haram is built by later caliphs. No evidence of a masjid al haram at Mecca during Muhammads lifetime. Literally none.
- I don't like to face a meaningless rock while praying. I'd like to face the place my faith was given to me. The first House of God. Known to Abraham and every prophet in his lineage.
- I would have to accept the Quran contains mistakes in spelling and thus meaning. I would have to doubt every word in quran if one can just mistake an M for a B any mistake is possible. I strongly believe Quran is protected.
- I can't logically accept one God to install multiple qiblas.
- How can I acknowledge a qibla that was never acknowledged by any prophet except the hadith version of muhammad?
Peace
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At the time the Quran was revealed there were many tribes of arabs this message was being conveyed to, and other than them were many non arabs who either lived there or traded there, who would have accepted islam. You are assuming that none of them used bakka for mecca. It is quite possible that many did do so, and hence the use of both words. This is more plausible than your version which puts bakka to be in Jerusalem, which no historian or actual historical record ever shows to be true.
There was never ever a bakka in Jerusalem but there was a Mecca in the Hijaz. What is more plausible?
The Old Testament which predates Quran mentions Bakka in relation to mount Zion, Jerusalem. It did exist as the old scriptures confirm and was known to Jews. Your claim it didn't ever exist in Jerusalem is just your opinion.
Peace