explain please if can !

[TAJ]

Salaam drfazl,

What does music cause in us? Well being? Or a false sense of well being that does not last? Does music make us forget our stress and strain that we earned from our own error, just for a while and make us immerse in a mood intoxicated? If so, is it right to invovle in temporary jolly mood instead of facing the reality and setting things right by mending our ways in the path righteous and seeking forgivensss from Him?

Well put!

-044.038
We created not the heavens, the earth, and all between them, merely in sport.
o44.039
We created them not but with the truth, but most of them do not know. -
Do you not see the rhythm in the creation of the Skies and Earth? In our human terms it is something like an orchestra.
Making music, rhythmical sounds, is like trying to tune in and pick up that universal rhythm and feel our presence within it. Visions that are bigger than words would come from a far place and fill our being?

-Is music and cinema rihgteous path or erreneous?-

Music is an efficiently penetrative tool. Some would take advantage of it and try to influence/manipulate others with it!

Taj

[Tay]

Peace Taj,

You stated,

Making music, rhythmical sounds, is like trying to tune in and pick up that universal rhythm and feel our presence within it. Visions that are bigger than words would come from a far place and fill our being?

Beautifully said. But it seems you've attached a negative connotation to this sentiment. I see it as quite the opposite.

Some would take advantage of it and try to influence/manipulate others with it!

This is probably the single most paranoid thought I've read in a while. Music is art, and art is expression. There is nothing manipulative about it.

May peace be upon you,
Tay

[TAJ]

Salaam Tay,

You stated,

Making music, rhythmical sounds, is like trying to tune in and pick up that universal rhythm and feel our presence within it. Visions that are bigger than words would come from a far place and fill our being?

Beautifully said. But it seems you've attached a negative connotation to this sentiment. I see it as quite the opposite.

Thanks for the compliment )
And no negative connotaion at all. Where did you sense that!?

Some would take advantage of it and try to influence/manipulate others with it!

This is probably the single most paranoid thought I've read in a while.

Oh really!? D

Music is art, and art is expression. There is nothing manipulative about it.

I meant the indecent video clips, if I may say roll

Taj

[Tay]

Peace Taj,

And no negative connotaion at all. Where did you sense that!?

You agreed with drfazl's negative connotations, and this set the tone for your post. My apologies if I misunderstood.

I meant the indecent video clips, if I may say

Of course you may say )
No harm no foul.

May peace be upon you,
Tay

[drfazl]

Do you not see the rhythm in the creation of the Skies and Earth? In our human terms it is something like an orchestra.

Do you attribute the rhythm of heavens and earth and everything inbetween to the Praising of the Purity of Allah?

Making music, rhythmical sounds, is like trying to tune in and pick up that universal rhythm and feel our presence within it. Visions that are bigger than words would come from a far place and fill our being

You say People making music from their own hands; trying to instill enticement called 'rhythm'; to attract mental attention of the succumbing people from the reality and make them submerged into falsehood. Despite so much anti-natural attitude, can one involved in such activities still expect to pick up the universal rhythm, their Praising of Allah?

Further, are the visions from within us? Or they fill us up coming into us as if aliens from far off places? Whereas all that are created are made to submit to man's soul. Soul is in the heart. As far as man is concerned there is nothing far off, but within HIS command by the Leave of Allah, if our rhythm is in praise of Allah with all the creations joining us in HIS PRAISE.

[drfazl]

You agreed with drfazl's negative connotations, and this set the tone for your post. My apologies if I misunderstood.

Please define " the Negative " and " the Connotation"

[Tay]

Peace drfazl,

The negative parts of your comments are in bold-face

What does music cause in us? Well being? Or a false sense of well being that does not last? Does music make us forget our stress and strain that we earned from our own error, just for a while and make us immerse in a mood intoxicated?

And the last sentence in the quoted paragraph assumes a negative effect of music, while at the same time, insinuating that enjoying music must be taking away from being righteous. You've defined music as an all-or-nothing proposition, with the "all" being astray from the path of God

is it right to invovle in temporary jolly mood instead of facing the reality and setting things right by mending our ways in the path righteous and seeking forgivensss from Him?

may peace be upon you,
Tay

[drfazl]

Peace drfazl,

The negative parts of your comments are in bold-face

What does music cause in us? Well being? Or a false sense of well being that does not last? Does music make us forget our stress and strain that we earned from our own error, just for a while and make us immerse in a mood intoxicated?

Can you give the definition of the two words befor discuss what i wrote ?
Negative and
connotation ?
Without the understanding of the words it would seem like we say each other's view unmindful of what we talk about and who we talk to.

[Tay]

Peace drfazl,

You asked

Can you give the definition of the two words befor discuss what i wrote ?

Sure.

Negative Lacking positive or constructive features

Connotation An idea or meaning suggested by or associated with a word or thing

May peace be upon you,
Tay

[drfazl]

Negative Lacking positive or constructive features
Connotation An idea or meaning suggested by or associated with a word or thing
Tay

Negative Lacking positive or constructive features

Please refer to music and say the positive and constructive features of music in the following conditions

1. In serious situations where you have to apply your mind with atmost care and caution. Will you play music and tune your mood to positive or jam the music to get into seriouseness ?

2. Your nearest kin is in the intensive care Unit fighting for his life. Your anxiety and apprehension makes you beg for his life with God. Will you play Violin or Rock or Jazz now so that the doctors in the I.C.U. would have their brains sharpened at the concert and work better to save his life?

3. A robber barges into your house. You are in terrific horror. One of your family members were shot down. Next you are in a fight or flight situation. Will you now put on your head phones and start the music?

4. You are caught in a trerrif traffic jam that your car won't move even a few yards and you're delayed for hours. The music is on. Yet will you not be frustrated at even the music and jam the music button to off? Why the music failed to keep your cool?

5. You are appearing for an interview. You are next in line, waiting. At this point will your thought be centred around how best you should perform or will you be swaying away with the nonsense music?

These are a few of the many many instances where you will put off any music for, the music in such situations where there is tussle between life and death; between constructive purpose and destructive purpose; or where you have to prove your worth in a 'now or never situation', you will have to boot the music out of your way. Music has no constructive purpose for it is intoxication that causes sluggishness and drunk-state and thus making one a lesser being than a human at that point of time.

Connotation An idea or meaning suggested by or associated with a word or thing

It was not connotation nor suggestion nor idea - but the truth itself. Music causes deathward attitude, like committing suicide unknowingly. He music addict does not even know he is committing slow suicide. A tragedy!

[ammarb87]

so basically ur saying in simple words that music is not allowed or am i mistaken ??

[TAJ]

Do you not see the rhythm in the creation of the Skies and Earth? In our human terms it is something like an orchestra.

Do you attribute the rhythm of heavens and earth and everything in between to the Praising of the Purity of Allah ?-

Praising of the Purity of Allah!!!
What are you saying, drfazl!? Where did you get that from!? Allah is beyond purity. Allah is the CREATOR of purity. If you are lacking words then use the words that Allah Subhanahu taught us in the Quran! Use the word Tasbeeh (Tasbee7), which has no equivalent in any other language than Arabic.
So if you want to avoid blasphemy, then your sentence should go like this
Do you attribute the rhythm of heavens and earth and everything in between to the Tasbeeh for Allah ?
And my answer would be yes, certainly!

You say People making music from their own hands; trying to instill enticement called 'rhythm'; to attract mental attention of the succumbing people from the reality and make them submerged into falsehood.

Falsehood can't be the intention of all.

Despite so much anti-natural attitude, can one involved in such activities still expect to pick up the universal rhythm, their Praising of Allah?

What do you mean by such activities? Will you specify?

Further, are the visions from within us? Or they fill us up coming into us as if aliens from far off places?

Aliens!!!

Whereas all that are created are made to submit to man's soul.

To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost

Soul is in the heart.

And who said that!?
Subhana Allah!

Have they such a knowledge of the secret things that they can write them down?

As far as man is concerned there is nothing far off, but within HIS command by the Leave of Allah, if our rhythm is in praise of Allah with all the creations joining us in HIS PRAISE.

There are too many turns in that paragraph! 'HIS' is for who?

Taj

[Tay]

Peace drfazl,

1. In serious situations where you have to apply your mind with atmost care and caution. Will you play music and tune your mood to positive or jam the music to get into seriouseness ?

hmmm...an unfair question at best, at worst, it is villifying and placing one subject well outside of it's context to purposeley fulfill some biased objective.

Let me ask you a similar question, with the same structure

In serious situations where you have to apply your mind with utmost care and caution, will you pick up your nephew or niece and make goo-goo gaa-gaa sounds to get into seriousness?

Overall, drfazl, it seems you lump all music appreciation into the same category. This shows a very shallow and limited understanding of the subject. Perhaps you dislike music. That's fine. But you have ZERO Qur'anic evidence to forbid it, and you have ZERO logical evidence to negate it, outside of your logically flawed, yet imaginative hypothetical examples.

May peace be upon you,
Tay

[Tay]

Peace drfazl,

Music has no constructive purpose for it is intoxication that causes sluggishness and drunk-state and thus making one a lesser being than a human at that point of time.

Sounds convincing, but this is supported by what? Your insight?

It was not connotation nor suggestion nor idea - but the truth itself. Music causes deathward attitude, like committing suicide unknowingly. He music addict does not even know he is committing slow suicide. A tragedy!

Some structured arguments would be nice, rather than clergy-like rantings. It isn't the "truth" just because you say so. Looking forward to some well-constructed thoughts.

Peace,
Tay

[drfazl]

TAJ,

Do you attribute the rhythm of heavens and earth and everything in between to the Praising of the Purity of Allah ?-

Praising of the Purity of Allah!!!
What are you saying, drfazl!? Where did you get that from!?

Among Allah's names are
Al Quddus, Al Subhan Please refer the meanings here.

Allah is beyond purity.

Purity emanates from HIM. Please explain what is beyond purity but before explaining what is beyond purity, say what you meant by purity.

Allah is the CREATOR of purity. If you are lacking words then use the words that Allah Subhanahu taught us in the Quran! Use the word Tasbeeh (Tasbee7), which has no equivalent in any other language than Arabic.

Pure arabic chauvinism. He is not the creator of purity. He is PURE, Subhan, Quddus by Himself. If other languages do not have the equivalent of the arabic word, then you say one cannot call HIM or Praise Him with any of His attributes in any language other than arabic. Do you have evidence for the same in Quran? Did you ever ponder and recite to yourself that it is Allah who created all the languages? Is it not blasphemy to deny and denigrate the languages created by Allah

You say People making music from their own hands; trying to instill enticement called 'rhythm'; to attract mental attention of the succumbing people from the reality and make them submerged into falsehood.

Falsehood can't be the intention of all.

Half-hearted answer, this. I am not talking about the people who make music. I am speaking of the inherent evil of the music itself.

Further, are the visions from within us? Or they fill us up coming into us as if aliens from far off places?

Aliens!!!

Poor! Wherefrom?

Whereas all that are created are made to submit to man's soul.

To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost

I think you are a hadith man. No wonder why you talk like this. You may claim you know arabic. But I only pity you for allah says Quran is for those who ponder over the ayats. When you reflect and ponder on the verses it is universal language. It is Allah who teaches you. Not your arabic and your dictionary or grammar. This Book is for those who fear Allah and not for those who knew arabic. I am sorry for you. You lost yourself when you denied the 31 20, for lack of understanding and for want of deep reflecting over the ayat. It is Allah that teaches you when you have differences in opinion, for they are secret words and verses having the meanings only Allah knows. He teaches to who He wishes. And Allah is not arabic chauvinist. He knows All Languages! What a denier you are! I ditch arabic for you said arabic is holy, very unmindful! A straight forward case of blasphemy. Quran is given to those who are illiterate not to the arabic scholars. The prophet himself was unlettered. Thus the quran was Allah's language, easy to translate and clear to explain and above all it is Allah who teaches Quran.

Soul is in the heart.

And who said that!?
Subhana Allah!

Who taught you to deny this Hikmath of Allah?
Your arabic chauvinism? Astaghfirullah!
Hadiths definitely has a toll on you!

Have they such a knowledge of the secret things that they can write them down?

003.007
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses of HIKMATH; they are the foundation of the Book others are known only to Allah. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is with Allah alone, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

055.002; 003; 004
It is He Who has taught the Qur'an. He has created man; He taught him the BAYAN

Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!

As far as man is concerned there is nothing far off, but within HIS command by the Leave of Allah, if our rhythm is in praise of Allah with all the creations joining us in HIS PRAISE.

There are too many turns in that paragraph! 'HIS' is for who?

This paragraph is for those who ponder; Poor! Not to the arabic chauvinists!. Hell with the human arabic! Allah alone shall teach the Quranic arabic. I beleive in the BAYAN of Allah! May All Muslims!

[drfazl]

Peace drfazl,

Music has no constructive purpose for it is intoxication that causes sluggishness and drunk-state and thus making one a lesser being than a human at that point of time.

Sounds convincing, but this is supported by what? Your insight?

It was not connotation nor suggestion nor idea - but the truth itself. Music causes deathward attitude, like committing suicide unknowingly. He music addict does not even know he is committing slow suicide. A tragedy!

Some structured arguments would be nice, rather than clergy-like rantings. It isn't the "truth" just because you say so. Looking forward to some well-constructed thoughts.
Peace,
Tay

Here is an ayat for us all to ponder
010.039
Nay, they charge with falsehood that whose knowledge they cannot comprehend, even before the elucidation thereof hath reached them thus did those before them make charges of falsehood but see what was the end of those who did wrong!

[TAJ]

TAJ,

Do you attribute the rhythm of heavens and earth and everything in between to the Praising of the Purity of Allah ?-
Praising of the Purity of Allah!!!
What are you saying, drfazl!? Where did you get that from!?
Among Allah's names are
Al Quddus, Al Subhan Please refer the meanings here.

I will ask you again From what book are you reading? For in the whole Quran, never the word Al Subhan was a name of Allah!

Allah is beyond purity.

Purity emanates from HIM. Please explain what is beyond purity but before explaining what is beyond purity, say what you meant by purity.

Subhana Allah! You are the one who used it! Ask yourself what it means!

Allah is the CREATOR of purity. If you are lacking words then use the words that Allah Subhanahu taught us in the Quran! Use the word Tasbeeh (Tasbee7), which has no equivalent in any other language than Arabic.

Pure arabic chauvinism.

HOFF! That much! shock

He is not the creator of purity.

Is He not!!!??? Then who is!?

He is PURE, Subhan, Quddus by Himself.

So you are now selling the word pure as a name for Allah by putting it side by side with Subhana and Quddoos, when Subhana is not even a name of Allah to begin with!

If other languages do not have the equivalent of the arabic word, then you say one cannot call HIM or Praise Him with any of His attributes in any language other than arabic.
Now where did I say that!!!???
Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.

Do you have evidence for the same in Quran? Did you ever ponder and recite to yourself that it is Allah who created all the languages? Is it not blasphemy to deny and denigrate the languages created by Allah

And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours verily in that are Signs for those who know.
How can I or anyone with minimum knowlege of Quran deny that languages are the creation of Allah? You are aiming to create Fitnah.

ou say People making music from their own hands; trying to instill enticement called 'rhythm'; to attract mental attention of the succumbing people from the reality and make them submerged into falsehood.
Falsehood can't be the intention of all.
Half-hearted answer, this. I am not talking about the people who make music. I am speaking of the inherent evil of the music itself.

That is your own judgment which I happen to disagree with.

Further, are the visions from within us? Or they fill us up coming into us as if aliens from far off places?
Aliens!!!

Poor! Wherefrom?

Poor! Thanks. That would make us two, Moses and I!

So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade, and said"O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou dost send me!"
The exact word in the Quran that gives the meaning of Poor is Faqeer. Why didn't the translators use Poor!? 'In desperate need' will do!

Whereas all that are created are made to submit to man's soul.

To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost
I think you are a hadith man.

shock

No wonder why you talk like this. You may claim you know arabic. But I only pity you for allah says Quran is for those who ponder over the ayats. When you reflect and ponder on the verses it is universal language. It is Allah who teaches you. Not your arabic and your dictionary or grammar.

Subhana Allah! Allah chose to talk to us in Arabic. You yourself needed people who knew/know Arabic to translate the Quran for you, so why is all that Ju7ood!? shock

This Book is for those who fear Allah and not for those who knew arabic. I am sorry for you. You lost yourself when you denied the 31 20, for lack of understanding and for want of deep reflecting over the ayat. It is Allah that teaches you when you have differences in opinion, for they are secret words and verses having the meanings only Allah knows.
You should tell that to yourself instead of teaching us where the Rooh is, something that Allah didn't teach to anyone!!!

He teaches to who He wishes. And Allah is not arabic chauvinist. He knows All Languages! What a denier you are! I ditch arabic for you said arabic is holy, very unmindful!

You ditch Arabic!? And I didn't even say that Arabic is holy! At least show some respect to Allah's choice!

A straight forward case of blasphemy. Quran is given to those who are illiterate not to the arabic scholars.

How good you are at creating false cases! Who said that the Quran is given to those who are illiterate!? And why do you exclude Arabic scholars!? Those Arabic scholars actually became scholars because of the Quran. No one can call himself an Arabic scholar without studying and learning the language of the Quran, which is the highest level ever of Arabic.

The prophet himself was unlettered.

Was he really!? Well, it is a good thing that you actually believe in Prophet Muhammad (P&PBUH).

Thus the quran was Allah's language, easy to translate

Easy to translate!!! That is easy for you to say! I wonder if you have tried to translate a word of the Quran!

and clear to explain
For a certain extent, yes.

and above all it is Allah who teaches Quran.
Not when you ditch the Arabic Quran! Or those who keep learning Arabic all their lives to translate the Quran for you! Very ungrateful of you!

Soul is in the heart.

And who said that!?
Subhana Allah!

Have they such a knowledge of the secret things that they can write them down?

Who taught you to deny this Hikmath of Allah?
Your arabic chauvinism? Astaghfirullah!
Hadiths definitely has a toll on you!

I really caught you with this one!

003.007
He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book In it are verses of HIKMATH; they are the foundation of the Book others are known only to Allah. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is with Allah alone, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. And those who are firmly grounded in knowledge say "We believe in the Book; the whole of it is from our Lord" and none will grasp the Message except men of understanding.

So you consider yourself a man of understanding!

055.002; 003; 004
It is He Who has taught the Qur'an. He has created man; He taught him the BAYAN

Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!

shock Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???

What I said and meant was this If you didn't know Arabic and had to depend on the translators to work for you, instead of you working for yourself, you could very possibly lose a lot of the true meanings of the Quran, naturally. But if you learn Arabic it will not be easy on others to pass their own opinions/judgments of the words of the Quran on to you as the word of Allah. Learning Arabic will make you well-equipped, especially if you are truly someone who is really a Truth seeker.

As far as man is concerned there is nothing far off, but within HIS command by the Leave of Allah, if our rhythm is in praise of Allah with all the creations joining us in HIS PRAISE.

There are too many turns in that paragraph! 'HIS' is for who?

This paragraph is for those who ponder; Poor! Not to the arabic chauvinists!. Hell with the human arabic! -
How soon you forgot? Just a little while ago you accused me of what? Take a look at what you wrote then
Did you ever ponder and recite to yourself that it is Allah who created all the languages? Is it not blasphemy to deny and denigrate the languages created by Allah.
and now look what you have just wrote
Hell with the human arabic!
Now who is cursing the languages, the creation of Allah? What a nerve you've got! o

Allah alone shall teach the Quranic arabic.
But you yourself have to work hard to learn it, and, first and formost, respect it!

I beleive in the BAYAN of Allah!
Then let us see some results!

Taj

[Tay]

Peace drfazl,

You quoted 1039. A very important ayah, and a very revealing selection.

So what you're saying is your wisdom is far superior to anyone else's, and that you don't need to form coherent, logical arguments in the course of debate. If one cannot make sense out of your gibberish, it must be because they cannot comprehend your masterful insight.

Great. wink

May peace be upon you, and may humility reach you,
Tay

[Tay]

Peace Ammar,

You asked,

so basically ur saying in simple words that music is not allowed or am i mistaken ??

Music is not allowed according to drfazl, with no logical reason except he has more insight than you and I. But according to the Qur'an, there is absolutely no evidence to support this.

I feel comfortable in saying listen to music to your heart's content, for if it wasn't from Allah, then it wouldn't be beautiful, as all good things come from Allah.

May peace be upon you,
Tay

[Peace]

Peace,
I can't even believe a debate on whether music is lawful or not is taking place, this seems like something the taliban would debate about. lol I think we should be careful where we tread, and I also believe that we should really be emphasizing the fundamental verses of the book of God, rather than the ones that can have multiple meanings and can be twisted to fit our own desires. Personally, I find no where in this reading that states music is prohibited, and to prohibit it would in my opinion be an invention. I look at music as a beautiful gift from God. This is not to say though that there is no such thing as music being used in a bad way. On my drive to university every day I hear a lot of music that talks about money, girls, and drugs, but thats mainly because of the radio station I choose to listen to. Thus, I've decided that this type of music doesnt really help to raise me onto a higher spiritual level, so I've decided to make a tape with beneficial music to listen to instead. I guess it all depends on what we choose to do with this gift that God has given us.
Peace