explain please if can !
-
Peace,
Peace, Tay and Taj, I completly agree with your logical, educated and fair reasonings.
I've seen several people in my life who think and believe they're God's gift to humanity and are know-it-all's...little do they know how MUCH God hates the egoisitic maniacs who use baseless arguments and attribute falsehood to God to support their backwards ideas.
Let us join in praising our Lord using truth, justice, common sense and most of all humility. We are NOT God and we have no RIGHT to take God's place by making things unlawful which God has made lawful.
May peace be upon you, and may humility reach you,
How very true P
-
peace All,
Sounds are all around us. One may like the sound of the waves rolling into shore or the leaves rustling, these are nature's sounds... just like the voice box of humans. It is clear there is no prohibition of music from al quran. In fact, the reading itself is rhythmical.
However, there are common sense guidelines... for example, do not sit with those who ridicule The God/obligation. This is similar to listening to music which ridicules The God/obligation. Thus, my advice would be not to listen to music which is clearly negative. This leaves a significant degree of individual interpretation and there is nothing wrong with that. When the scales are weighed, each soul shall be given what they have earned.Maintain the wasat/balance.
Wakas
-
drfazl Among Allah's names are
Al Quddus, Al Subhan Please refer the meanings here.I will ask you again From what book are you reading? For in the whole Quran, never the word Al Subhan was a name of Allah!
May I ask of you how do you read the Book? With your arabic literacy(human)? Or Arbic/Allah's Hikmath? Do you deny Allah's hikmath is very basic necessity to gain from the Book? How sure you are you have understood the Book, without the help of Hikmath of Allah, for you only rely upon in your lowly language literacy? And this is the reason why you ask "'what book you are reading?" Has Allah mentioned and listed His names? If so, I want the list that Allah has mentioned as His names in the Book you are reading. If you do not give the list containing the names that Allah Himself has listed as His names in the Book, as you claim He has, then, you are overstepping, opting to create a lie by denying one of the Most Beautiful Names, being attributed to Allah. If you say Allah has not listed His names, then you have no business to list them out.
I attrribute Al Subhan to His name due to its beauty and grace. Have you ever read in the Book that most beautiful names/attributes in the heavens and on the earth belong to Allah? If "yes" where did you get the list of 99 names? Is '99 names' atributed to any "neumerology sentiments"? then you are far away from the Quran.
-
TAJ
He is not the creator of purity.
Is He not!!!??? Then who is!?
He is PURE by Himslef? Do you deny still?
He is PURE, Subhan, Quddus by Himself.
So you are now selling the word pure as a name for Allah by putting it side by side with Subhana and Quddoos, when Subhana is not even a name of Allah to begin with!
Please answer this post
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=34684#34684If other languages do not have the equivalent of the arabic word, then you say one cannot call HIM or Praise Him with any of His attributes in any language other than arabic.
Now where did I say that!!!???It means very much that! Never pretend as if you are surprised to hear this!
Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages.
See your fumbling words there! You say Praise all you want; then injecting the hadiths idea matching/meaning etc; and also you say there are no matching words except in arabic; thus indirectly caliming arab speaking people has 'quranic superiority' over non arabic language speaking. wow! What a believer!, Man, Allah knows all languages! He sees your heart not your verbatim and wordiness. Do you agree! Put to hell your arabic literacy. Quran is Allah's Wisdom. you need Hikmath to appreciate in any discussion when Allah's ayats are cited for references.
Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.
Your perception difficutly is overwhelmingly evident there! If it is true, How come the Rasuls of other languages can speak Quran to the people in their respective languages? Have you tumbled on this following ayat ever? Have you pondered to receive the hikmath to understand this? Or just propbed in to the dictionary/grammar of arabic and dismissed this ayat of Allah as unfounded based on your knowledge on Quran? Please mind! Quran is language of Hikmath - for, Muhkamath is the basis to get anywhere near the Quran. quran is not arabic of man.
014.004
We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom.Stick to Wisdom and shun the grammar and arabic literacy! Seek wisdom from allah to undersrtand Quran. Do not be among those who are left astray by sticking to human arabic. Please answer!
-
TAJ
Do you have evidence for the same in Quran? Did you ever ponder and recite to yourself that it is Allah who created all the languages? Is it not blasphemy to deny and denigrate the languages created by Allah
And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours verily in that are Signs for those who know.
How can I or anyone with minimum knowlege of Quran deny that languages are the creation of Allah? You are aiming to create Fitnah.
Am I? Or are you confused from your own statement? Well prejudiced!
If you say all languages are created by Allah, shall He make some of languages be inferior to some other languages? Where did you read this from? Has Allah ever mentioned in His Book that arabic is unique/trustworthy/superior etc., except that He has said that He had given the Book in clear arabic, simple to understand? So that you can easily translate and ponder over to get the Wisdom of Allah? Pondering is what quran is given for and not for literal reading! To deny this Path is fitna? Or when I try to bring it to light is Fitna? Why do you complicate an otherwise simple easy Quran? A typical Hadiths man you are!
-
TAJ
ou say People making music from their own hands; trying to instill enticement called 'rhythm'; to attract mental attention of the succumbing people from the reality and make them submerged into falsehood.
Falsehood can't be the intention of all.
Half-hearted answer, this. I am not talking about the people who make music. I am speaking of the inherent evil of the music itself.That is your own judgment which I happen to disagree with.
Likewise!
Further, are the visions from within us? Or they fill us up coming into us as if aliens from far off places?
Aliens!!!Poor! Wherefrom?
Poor! Thanks.
So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade, and said"O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou dost send me!"
The exact word in the Quran that gives the meaning of Poor is Faqeer. Why didn't the translators use Poor!? 'In desperate need' will do!It is not the exactness in the words; it is rather the exactness in the heart that it perceives by His Leave alone that counts. Translations have no value. What you understand By His Wisdom alone shows you the Straight Path.
-
TAJ,
Subhana Allah! Allah chose to talk to us in Arabic. You yourself needed people who knew/know Arabic to translate the Quran for you, so why is all that Ju7ood!? shock
Never use Allah's name so indiscriminately as Subhan Allah.
Allah chose to talk to us in arabic alone? Does not Allah say He knows what is in your hearts. Does HE not say He reveals His wisdom in your hearts and conducts in the Straight Path whom He Wills? Or Does He choose only arabic speaking people to lead arabs alone in the straight path and leave all the rest of the languages speaking world to go astray? Does not Allah say "I am near to you; I answer the prayers of my bondmen, if they call Me" ? Does allah say "I speak only arabic and I answer Arabic speaking people alone"?
Please tell me where did you get from all these weird informations? Hadiths?
-
This Book is for those who fear Allah and not for those who knew arabic. I am sorry for you. You lost yourself when you denied the 31 20, for lack of understanding and for want of deep reflecting over the ayat. It is Allah that teaches you when you have differences in opinion, for they are secret words and verses having the meanings only Allah knows.
You should tell that to yourself instead of teaching us where the Rooh is, something that Allah didn't teach to anyone!!!
Again you failed to understand that Allah does not teach to anyone except to those who turn to Him without committing the shirk of associating their scholarship in arabic over Allah's teachings and imparting of Wisdom.
He teaches to who He wishes. And Allah is not arabic chauvinist. He knows All Languages! What a denier you are! I ditch arabic for you said arabic is holy, very unmindful!
You ditch Arabic!? And I didn't even say that Arabic is holy! At least show some respect to Allah's choice!
Yes! You said!! Allah speaks only to arab speaking people. He speaks only in arabic! Allah disrespected all other languages? So one shall never read the translated Book and that amounts to disrespect Allah?? Hmmmm..
No one can call himself an Arabic scholar without studying and learning the language of the Quran, which is the highest level ever of Arabic.
If you respectfully submit that Allah alone is the scholar of his Quran, and none is equivalent to Allah. Will you now humble yourself that there is no scholar in Quran, over the scholar Allah?
-
then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost x
Taj Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???
What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?
What I said and meant was this If you didn't know Arabic and had to depend on the translators to work for you, instead of you working for yourself, you could very possibly lose a lot of the true meanings of the Quran, naturally.
Translation is never true meanings as far as the Book Quran is concerned, since its meanings are with Allah. Hikmath is the basis to understand Quran and that grant is from Allah. If you forget this and stay a believer in arabic word by word translation you are a loser!
-. -
To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost x
Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!
Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???
What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?
First
The words in red are your own words which you didn't bring up in your post above. Why do you quote me then you hide your own replies!? Is this your way of fair discussion?Second
If you don't know the difference between- could be lost *
and - you are loser *
then don't waste my time, will you?
Taj
- could be lost *
-
Salaam,
Arabic is a human language, whether God utilizes it or not and I do not personally believe that it is special compared to all others, or better. If people cannot bring alhaqq to the people in their language then let others, it is not impossible or even nearly impossible to do such.
Joe
-
To submit to man's soul!!?? What book are you reading from? If you think that Sakhkhara as in means 'submit to man's soul', then I can only say sorry for those who don't know Arabic of how much they could be lost
Please! Never your scholarly brilliance in arabic will teach you Quran, unless HE Himself teaches you the BAYAN. So never overstep your limits saying if you do not know arabic you are loser! If you repeat the same you lose more heavily, for your blasphemy!
Where did I say/write that "if you do not know arabic you are loser!" !!!???
What ! You say and then ask me where did I say ?
The words in red are your own words which you didn't bring up in your post above. Why do you quote me then you hide your own replies!? And you also added the face x when you quoted me, that 'mad' face does not even exist in my original post!!!
Is this your idea of fair discussion?-
could be lost * are my words.
-
you are loser * are you own words. Why are you denying what you wrote? You are too ashamed to admit your own words.
And not just that, you go on and insist on your lie! shock
Second
If you don't know the difference between- could be lost *
and - you are loser *
then don't waste my time, will you?
Taj
You mean very well what you meant by those two ways of speaking! Ok, it is time!
Two ways of speaking!!!!????
Taj
-
-
-
- you are loser * are you own words. Why are you denying what you wrote? You are too ashamed to admit your own words.
Taj
Do you think Allah does not know your mistakes that you hide and charge others for what they are not responsible, but yourself?
What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!Taj
- you are loser * are you own words. Why are you denying what you wrote? You are too ashamed to admit your own words.
-
What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!
TajWhen you spoke of arabic is the only language with which you can understand quran and no translataion in any other language is good enough for arabic; that Allah chose arabic as the language for quran understanding - it is no way anywhere near to Faith in Allah; and is good enough dvivde that you caused between arabic and non- arabic speaking population. Allah does not like people claiming superiorism inany manner whatsoever!
If you say you do not calim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!
-
What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!
TajWhen you spoke of arabic is the only language with which you can understand quran and no translataion in any other language is good enough for arabic; that Allah chose arabic as the language for quran understanding - it is no way anywhere near to Faith in Allah; and is good enough dvivde that you caused between arabic and non- arabic speaking population. Allah does not like people claiming superiorism inany manner whatsoever!-
You have a serious problem with your comprehension!
I was telling you all through my posts not to deny the favor of the translators. Those people have spent most of their lives working on their studying and understanding of Arabic so that they give it to you on a silver plate.
Just ask Layth, Marie and Ayman, they are people of this forum, of how much time and effort they are spending to translate the Quran and they are Arabs still!!! So just imagine how much that effort is multiplied when the non-Arabs try to do this translation!
Are you thankful to any of them? Not at all! You are biting the hand that fed you all that knowledge!Here are what I wrote in gratitude to those translators
and above all it is Allah who teaches Quran.
Not when you ditch the Arabic Quran! Or those who keep learning Arabic all their lives to translate the Quran for you! Very ungrateful of you!Taj
Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?Taj
-If you say you do not calim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!
How can anyone in this world understand the Quran if
- They don't understand Arabic
or - If they don't understand any translation of the Quran?
I have been very clear about that. In order to understand the Quran you either need to understand Arabic or you can understand a translation of the Quran.
Look again into what I wrote in one of my previous posts on this thread
Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.
And just let me remind you of what I wrote at the top of page#3 of this thread
Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?Taj
Taj
- They don't understand Arabic
-
What am I hiding?
Al Hamdu Le Ellah! I have quoted what I wrote and what you wrote in respose, with the exact date and time so that everyone here can witness it and check it by themselves. If you have the faintest faith in Allah you wouldn't have accused me of something that you are the one doing!
TajWho could judge who has how much faith? Are you the measurer of faith? How much you feared Allah, when you measured my faith?
When you spoke of arabic is the only language with which you can understand quran and no translataion in any other language is good enough for arabic; that Allah chose arabic as the language for quran understanding - it is no way anywhere near to Faith in Allah; and is good enough dvivde that you caused between arabic and non- arabic speaking population. Allah does not like people claiming superiorism inany manner whatsoever!-
You have a serious problem with your comprehension!
By that if you mean to say any translatation is good enough to recite Quran, hats off to you! Great! No comments! But did you really mean that? Please say again! It will feed my comprehension for according to the measure you have for me, I have serious problem to comprehend.
I was telling you all through my posts not to deny the favor of the translators. Those people have spent most of their lives working on their studying and understanding of Arabic so that they give it to you on a silver plate.
Still you maintain the same problem of mixing your dictionary quran and Allah's Wisdomful Quran. I only say your dictionary oriented translation however accurate it shall never serve the purpose, to take you nearer to Allah, unless you turn to HIM for comprehension. Seek with HIM "O Lord, Increase my comprehension/understanding, for Thou sayeth Quran is for the people who ponder/understand/and who thou favor, for their sincere turning towards thou and that they are not arrogant with their limited knowledge, which thou had allowed them as only a test."
Just ask Layth, Marie and Ayman, they are people of this forum, of how much time and effort they are spending to translate the Quran and they are Arabs still!!! So just imagine how much that effort is multiplied when the non-Arabs try to do this translation!
Are you thankful to any of them? Not at all! You are biting the hand that fed you all that knowledge!
I have my gratitude to Allah in full. For I believe none but Allah. Is your pride affected by it? This apart, I have never mentioned any of the above people accountable for disrespect. Did I? "My respect to all humans alike" need not be questioned by you since all people have to live as a single society. It is Allah's command and He had made the believers as best examples. These believers could be among Christians, jews, sabiyeen etc. I have respect for all.
Here are what I wrote in gratitude to those translators
and above all it is Allah who teaches Quran.
Not when you ditch the Arabic Quran! Or those who keep learning Arabic all their lives to translate the Quran for you! Very ungrateful of you!Taj
I never heard you mentioning any names. My respect for all humans is alike. For Allah says "O ye who believe! Let not a folk look down upon a folk who may be better than they are!" Do you mind still?
Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?
TajIf at all there is a favor, it must be from Allah; the translators do their intended work for the sake of Allah and that they shall never do it for my sake; they do not even know who i am; with Allah is their recompense for any good that they did. Who am I to garland any one for their worth; Allah is most trust worthy of all and He is the Best of judges!
If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!? It is only to remind myself though not others, through discussions using the translations that human language excellence shall never be the guidance and it is only with Allah, His ayats are. He reveals the ayats to who He wishes, and that the translations can only frame up sentences but they shall not reveal the ayats, for, the ayats are SIGNS of Allah.
Please ponder this I am using a translation, but what for? To look up to Allah for the ayats for conclusion! Not for further translations and sentences formation.
006.149
Say - For Allah's is the final argument - Had He willed He could indeed have guided all of you.
006.088
This is the guidance of Allah He giveth that guidance to whom He pleaseth, of His worshippers.The above is someone's simple translation I use here. No one needs to toil hard for a translation. Please tell me, who shall you turn to, for guidance. Translation has no guidance in it. But the ayats/revelations are with allah alone for guidance.
-If you say you do not claim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!
How can anyone in this world understand the Quran if
- They don't understand Arabic
or - If they don't understand any translation of the Quran?
I have been very clear about that. In order to understand the Quran you either need to understand Arabic or you can understand a translation of the Quran.
I am ready for debate on this! Let us take this subject in to a separate topic for discussion so that others could see. I denounce translations as perfect and they are of any use as a guide and no way translations Guide you. I do not start the discussion! I want you to start this discussion in consultation with the admins.
Look again into what I wrote in one of my previous posts on this thread
Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.
"other than Arabic can contain"
That is a very serious misappropriation/miscomprehension. you should have said " Including arabic" - They don't understand Arabic
-
Here are what I wrote in gratitude to those translators
Just ask Layth, Marie and Ayman, they are people of this forum, of how much time and effort they are spending to translate the Quran and they are Arabs still!!! So just imagine how much that effort is multiplied when the non-Arabs try to do this translation!I never heard you mentioning any names.
Don't Layth, Marie and Ayman look like names to you? And I am sorry that I didn't mention Brs. Shuaib, Someone, Sabo and others that I can't at this moment recall their names.
Translations have no value.
This thread is not even about Arabic, yet you keep arguing about it, denying the favor of the translators. If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?
Taj
If at all there is a favor, it must be from Allah; the translators do their intended work for the sake of Allah and that they shall never do it for my sake; they do not even know who i am; with Allah is their recompense for any good that they did. Who am I to garland any one for their worth; Allah is most trust worthy of all and He is the Best of judges!I am sure that those dedicated translators didnot/do not look for a Jazaa'an or a Shukoora from people, certainly not. They don't need it. They get their satisfaction from Allah's Blessings.
I am talking about the people at the receiving end, people like you, who got it the easy way the Quran readily translated. How can you be so ungrateful to them?
We say in Arabic "He doesn't thank Allah, he who doesn't thank others!"If translations have no value as you insist, then why are you using them!?
It is only to remind myself though not others, through discussions using the translations that human language excellence shall never be the guidance and it is only with Allah, His ayats are. He reveals the ayats to who He wishes, and that the translations can only frame up sentences but they shall not reveal the ayats, for, the ayats are SIGNS of Allah.Did I mention anything about Guidance!? Inna Le Ellah!
The above is someone's simple translation I use here. No one needs to toil hard for a translation.
Again and again you are denying the hard work of the translators!
Please tell me, who shall you turn to, for guidance. Translation has no guidance in it. But the ayats/revelations are with allah alone for guidance.
Why can't you stick to the point!?
-If you say you do not claim arabic alone can make you understand quran and also admit any one can follow quran through the reading of translation in any other language too, as good as reading in arabic, I retract all my replies. Will you admit to this? i do not believe in cross-examining!
How can anyone in this world understand the Quran if
- They don't understand Arabic
or - If they don't understand any translation of the Quran?
I have been very clear about that. In order to understand the Quran you either need to understand Arabic or you can understand a translation of the Quran.
I am ready for debate on this! Let us take this subject in to a separate topic for discussion so that others could see. I denounce translations as perfect and they are of any use as a guide and no way translations Guide you. I do not start the discussion! I want you to start this discussion in consultation with the admins.
And why start another thread when there are many already! Just take a look at the Quranic Study section and if you have any comments you can post it there, among the giant translators
http//www.free-minds.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2670&start=0
Why discuss Arabic here, where it does not belong to this thread, instead of discussing it in the right place, among the translators themselves!!!???Look again into what I wrote in one of my previous posts on this thread
Praise Allah all you want, in ways that Allah taught us, whether in Arabic or in equivelant words (matching meaning) in other languages. Languages are the creation of Allah. But the Quran has words that no language other than Arabic can contain. Why is that? That is beyond our ability to know.
"other than Arabic can contain"
That is a very serious misappropriation/miscomprehension. you should have said "Including arabic"Allah did not speak in the Quran with words that the Arabs did not know or understand. The words of the Quran are in clear Arabic tongue. The Arabic DID contain those words. Those words were not strange for the Arabs, and that is a fact.
Taj
- They don't understand Arabic
