Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace sister Marie,
I quickly read it to see if there is a change of our understanding about of the night "alqadr" since our last exchange in November, 2004, page 3 of this thread.
I would like to read comments from other arabc speakers on your article.
You chose a relevant title for your article.
It is a pleasure to read your articles.It is great to hear from you and thank you for reading the Arabic article and your kind evaluation. You inspired and contibuted to several of the points in the article. I remembered and experienced the following amazing signs last night with my family
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YUSUFALI So I do call to witness the ruddy glow of Sunset;
PICKTHAL Oh, I swear by the afterglow of sunset,
SHAKIR But nay! I swear by the sunset redness,Right after sunset we went out to witness the scorching full moon. We looked in the direction where the sunsets and saw the red afterglow of the sunset.
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YUSUFALI The Night and its Homing;
PICKTHAL And by the night and all that it enshroudeth,
SHAKIR And the night and that which it drives on,We turned to the directly opposite direction where the darkest part of the sky is and where darkness seems to be spreading from.
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YUSUFALI And the Moon in her fullness
PICKTHAL And by the moon when she is at the full,
SHAKIR And the moon when it grows full,From that direction where darkness spreads, after a few minutes, we saw the scorching full-moon slowly rising.
http//i47.tinypic.com/2nqe0yh.jpg
Living and experiencing those signs was amazing.
Peace and all best wishes,
Ayman
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Peace all
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
May Allah guide us to the truth.
Peace
Hope
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Peace all
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
May Allah guide us to the truth.
Peace
Hope
there are only 144 pages, just go thorough them quickly to have a good understanding!
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Peace all
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
May Allah guide us to the truth.
Peace
ONly read this artical no need to go through all pages.
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.0
Hope
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Peace, about 140 of them are circular arguments. But thanks for pointing out the obvious
obvious is the most difficult but you are welcome!
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but she must know all the arguments not just that one post!
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She OR he what type of optical your wearing??
sorry to offend you good sir, it was just a typo!
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please we are not yet sure as when is ramadan.
we have to be clear on this.
i think the matter is in its simplicity.
we have to observe the moon again.
and see more proof from the quran.
the proof we take must be obvious,no (taaweel)
we still need to figure out what is shahr and we need to figure out when is ramadan.
remmember only the quran will do,as for other sources ,i find difficulty to take .
thank you and salam.
the quran says that ramadan has bayinat so it is more then one sign.so it is not just the moon phase or full moon or no moon.we neeed more proof for ramadan. as for those signs and what they are we need to find from the quran.
give it more time ,allah is mercifull and he will show us in shaa. -
Salaam Hope
I saw the red moon last night and thought what an unusual red and big moon. I did not think much of it till I read this thread. So if what I have read is correct, we are suppose to fast for 3 to 5 days from seeing the moon? Can someone explain the significants in small bullet points as a summary? There is so much I need to learn its a little mind blowing. Thanks in advance.
The period of abstention is related to the Arabic word -shahr-.
Verse 2185 states that the duration of a full moon is relevant for the length of the period of abstention.- ... those of you who witness this full moon shall fast therein ... -
The plural-form of the word days relating to the abstention mentioned in verse 2184 requires a number of more than two.
The duration of the full-moon illusion with at least 98% coverage is three days.This seems to be a compelling quranic ruling with a clear unambiguous time-frame.
An abstention out of the time-frame of the duration of the full moon is not suggested in the relevant verses.
There seems not to be another verse that could put this aside in a compelling way.Other related verses and comments can be read at
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9600410.0Salaam and ramadan kareem
truthseeker171 -
Salaam Mohamad
the quran says that ramadan has bayinat so it is more then one sign.so it is not just the moon phase or full moon or no moon.we neeed more proof for ramadan. as for those signs and what they are we need to find from the quran.
Verse 2185 - The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an, a guidance for mankind, and clear proofs of the guidance, and the Criterion (of right and wrong). And whosoever of you is present, let him fast the month .... -
Pickthall - between brackets is added.The word -bayinat- relates to the Koran not to the word -ramadan-.
The Koran states that one should abstain the -shahr ramadan- when it is witnessed.
A full moon can be witnessed and abstained - other readings would be rather illogical.
We can not witness a whole month and go back into time and abstain the month.
The period between the two -hilal- when the moon is absent does not seem to be relevant either. We can not witness the absence of the moon in an unambiguous way that we would be able to know the period of fasting - most of the day the moon is absent.
Furthermore verse 2189 informs the believers that the -hilal- is a timing-device for the people and the hadj.
The -hilal- has a general function as a timing-device for personal affairs and the -hilal- is a timing-device for the hadj - one of the two communal Islamic events.
The Quran is complete and fully detailed.
Compelling seems to be the absence in this verse of the other communal Islamic event the communal abstention, so we can conclude that the -hilal- is not relevant for the duration of the period of abstention.Salaam
truthseeker171 -
yes i see brother,wow ,you are clear.
it might mean that al shahr is the full moon.
but does that mean that we should fast on every full moon 12 times a year for two or three days.
the quran states only two.
for when you first see it then comes day one and then day two.
it clearly says that you can be with your woman in day one and eat and drink on day two.
so we can stilll use the end of the moon phase for haj as for ramadan it is the full moon.right
i see truth seeker ramadan was not mentioned in the moon phase change only haj and timing ,you are right ,
thank you you made something very diffuclt for me easy
i dont know what to say .
you are a brother.
but now we need to know is there one month a year or more.
you get what i mean.
thank you appreciate your reply.
salam
as for haj the no moon phase apply and how the four month are different from the others ,stilll needs to be tested.
thank you ' -
what i find difficult ,is how to know it is full moon.
i sometimes confuse the full moon from the semi-full moon.
yesterday was a full moon . i think it is easy if we use numbers as when the moon was born.
so we might fast for twelve of those days of full moon are they three or two i dont know.
the aya is clear.
so they might be three.
thank you seeker.
salam. -
so we have the shahr that is the full moon.
so we have like twelve consecutive times to fast a year. twelve of those
addind up to two or three days each. right.
as for the no moon phases they are for haj and that we know the times.
that is cool .and the moon pheses are for us to know the times.
ok i see.
i still think that there are times in between the moon phases that are different in length sothatwe know when is haj.
but see there is some contradiction here .there are ashhur hurum the ones for haj .and when ahilat was mentioned we see clearly that the quran states so we know when are those times for haj , clearly stating the no moon phases.the ending of the moon phase and the beggining of the other"ahhilat"
pls consider. they are called ashhur ,so the ashhur hurum are not full moons.because the quran clearly states that the ahillat are the times of haj.
as for the full moon i think the quran states it to be the al arjoon . the lantern.
pls consider ,i know you have spent a long time on this but i want to be clear . thank you and thank you seeker .
so shahr ramadan is not a full moon but a no moon phase.
i think it is mostly three nights in length,as stated. but we neeed to know when are ashhur hurum.we need proof from the quran ,we needd to keep on looking .
maybe when we know the missing peace it will be clearer.
they are simply unique months with similarities.
ashhur hurum meaning unique.
kissas. meaning similar or equal. -
and there is in the quran al haj al akbar. what does that mean. i dont know
i am only speculating ,could it be one of longer length like three insted of two or four insted of three.
just putting more to look at .
thank you . -
truth seeker.
i have something that i want to share with you ,tell me what you think.
the aya is clear it says that who ever sees the full moon the shahr then he must fast.
and in here we despute whta is a shahr is say it is the no moon like the new moon as it is known and you say it is the full moon.
i dont know.
the aya says who ever sees it then he must fast.
does this meanthat seeing and fasting go togther.
i want to give you an example
when i say the shahr is the no moon or known as full moon then you should clearly know that it can be seen once .
yes the moon that cannot be seen at night when it is new can sometimes be see during the day and this happens once a year what do you think.
so we can some how see that something happens once a year for like two days where the moon can be seen after sunset adn during the day but there is no moon it is a new moon and that happens once a year.
pls let us reflect more on this ,i think we need to giveit more time ,dont jump to conclusions and dont get misguided from thta which is not quran. i see it gives others the exact opposite as some claim that the prophet saws used to fast on a full moon. pls we have to discover from the quran.
let us see further this issue.
salam -
Salaam Mohamad
the aya says who ever sees it then he must fast.
does this meanthat seeing and fasting go togther.Verse 2185 states that when one witnesses the -shahr ramadan- one has to abstain it.
Witnessing can mean literally seeing, but allegorically it can mean being present.
Millions of people did not see the -shahr ramadan- because it was clouded in their region.
So following moon-calendars could be the best way - the believers can witness the -shahr ramadan- in the most unambiguous way.when i say the shahr is the no moon or known as full moon then you should clearly know that it can be seen once .
yes the moon that cannot be seen at night when it is new can sometimes be see during the day and this happens once a year what do you think.
so we can some how see that something happens once a year for like two days where the moon can be seen after sunset adn during the day but there is no moon it is a new moon and that happens once a year.We can not prove your assumption that once a year the new moon is seen during the day and not during the night. This is highly unlikely.
The -shahr ramadan- is one of the 12 or 13 full moons of the year - it is related to the scorching heat - that is the meaning of the word ramadan.
In Arabia that is the moment of the summersolstice - june 21.
The first full moon after the summersolstice indicates the period of abstention - this once a year and unambiguous.Salaam
truthseeker171