Hot/"ramadan" Answer
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Peace quickduck,
You know very well that Ayman cannot get anything right. You should let him speak/write. That way it is more fun. He is Mr. contradiction. And you are following him. Why are you speaking for him. Did cat got his tongue? You are the one who is worshipping Ayman, we worship the lord of universe.
Peace Guest
I thought we all worshiped the LORD OF THE UNIVERSE as He created everything, we also know Him as the LORD of the HEAVENS AND THE EARTH and Everything between it. Everything He created is a sign to us if only we knew how to intepret it.
May God help us and have mercy on us and guide us.
Peace
Hope
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Peace Muse,
Welcome to the thread and I apologize for the rudeness of Progressive1993. Hopefully, you have read enough of the thread to understand his frustration.
I would just like to add something to the discussion on the real meaning of Ramadan. I have just read a book entitled "Islam a concise introduction" by Neal Robinson and according to him, Ramadan does indeed mean "scorcher" and in pre-Islamic Arabia, since the Arabs operated with a luni-solar year, it was a direct reference to the midsummer month. After arriving in Medina, Mohammad ordered his followers to fast on Ashura (the Jewish Day of Atonement). Shortly afterwards, Ashura was identified with the tenth of Muharram (the first month of the Muslim Year). However, after the Muslims broke up with the Jews, the obligatory month-long fast of Ramadan was instituted and the observance of Ashura became optional. Here is how Neal Robinson explains it
1- prescribed fasting on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The reference to "days" implied that the Muslims also fasted in the period leading up to it. In addition to Ashura, they may have fasted on the first three days of every month, as some traditions suggest.
2- was added, instituting the fast of Ramadan.
3- was added to make clear that fasting should not begin before dawn.I think that if one reads between the lines, one can see traces of the original timing amongst the corruption. Using Gregorian to Hijri converters, Muharam 1 of the first year of the new era converts to the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice. So originally the marker for the beginning of the year was the summer solstice. If the actual start of Muhrram was the scorching full-moon (shahr ramadhan) then indeed the Muslims would have fasted in the days leading up to and including the tenth of the first month (Muharram). At that time people would have still known the ramadhan/scorching full moon as the event marking the start of Muharram and not as the name of the month. Also, by its name ?Muharam? would make more sense as the first of the restricted period and not the third.
In addition, shortly before the Prophet died, he received a revelation which abolished the lunisolar calendar and replaced it with a purely lunar one. This had the effect of making Ramadan migrate through the seasons as it does now.
For those who don't know, the break between the Muslims and Jews occured as a result of Mohammad's followers attacking a caravan in Medina, which resulted in bloodshed. Hostilities began to arise between the two groups, and according to the author, God ordered the Muslims to distinguish themselves from the Jews this is why the qibla changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, and the days of fasting changed from the Ashura to the Ramadan that we know today.
Another interesting remark according to Neal Robinson, some commentators cite a tradition to the effect that the first Christians were ordered to fast in Ramadan, but that finding this too arduous, they moved the fast to the spring and extended it by twenty days as a penance for what they have done. From what I have understood, the writer does not find this account historically accurate (?).
I hope that I was clear enough for everyone to understand. I am only relating what I read, in case someone might be interested in a different view.There was definitely no break between the Muslims and the Jews. The relationship soured during the Abbasid period and this is when those traditions about the Jews were invented. On the other hand, the Romans and the Jews themselves speak of a very strong alliance between the Jews and the Arabs well into the Umayyad period. For example, here is what the Jewish Rabbi Simon ben Yohai wrote around 680CE- describing the second king of the Arabs ('Umar I)
?The second king who arises from Ishmael will be a lover of Israel. He restores their breaches and the breaches of the Temple. He hews Mount Moriah, makes it level and builds a mosque (hishtahawaya) there on the Temple rock, as it is said "Your nest is set in the rock."? (Source Hoyland, Seeing Islam as Others Saw it).
Umar was clearly a champion of Zionism. The Romans equally talk in their writings about being invaded by an alliance between the Jews and the Arabs. They speak for example about the Jews and the Arabs upon defeating them and entering Jerusalem going to a place that the Romans used as a dump and cleaning it up and building two shrines side by side, one for the Arabs and one for the Jews. For all we know, Umar himself might have been an Arab-Jew who converted but still harbored Zionist ideas.
I think that the corruption of the timing can be understood in light of this relationship between the Jews and the Arabs (who reverted to their pagan tendencies after the death of the prophet). I briefly provided some thoughts here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg220236#msg220236
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Nabil,
The great reading didn't descend on our lap from the sky. It came through Muhammed, the messenger of the god. I think that Farida is confused because I said that many of the so-called Sahaba probably didn't exist. Since she hero-worships those people, this made her confused. What I am saying is not something amazing or extra ordinary. For example, many researchers think that Abu Hurayra didn't exist and was invented by later generations.
All those messengers certainly existed. I don't remember taking part of any such debates and if I ever were then this is what I said.
I never said anything about the Biblical mythical beings wearing white robes and having halos on their heads commonly named Angels and neither did the great reading. The word "malaika" literally means controllers. The controllers are very much real and have nothing to do with fantasies. You can see them performing their duties in everything that happens in the universe.
As for "jinn", you know what pushes you to do wrong and it is not ghosts or aliens. You know the truth and you know where all falsehood comes from.
No Muhammed the messenger of the god was a real person. On the other hand, it is sectarians like the people that Farida blindly follows who have fantacized a false Muhammed who split the moon and sits next to the god and takes them into paradise on the day of the account! This false Muhammed, like all idols, is a product of the fantasy/"jinn".
I think that Farida's "dark agency" accusations are probably the funniest and most bankrupt argument I ever heard on the issue of the timing or any issue for that matter. I hope that you agree that the intelligent reader will recognize that such absurdity doesn't even deserve a reply. As for the unintelligent reader, well we can't help them anyway. As usual, none of those clapping for Farida have attempted to correct her. It shows that they don't really care about her since when someone I care about makes a mistake I try to correct them. I actually feel bad for Farida.
- ...You think they are together but their hearts are dispersed, this is because they are people who do not reason.
Peace,
Ayman
3545 And if God were to punish the people for what they have earned, He would not leave a single creature standing. But He delays them to a predetermined time. Then, when their time comes, then God is Seer of His servants
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Peace Muse,
Welcome to the thread and I apologize for the rudeness of Progressive1993. Hopefully, you have read enough of the thread to understand his frustration.
I think that if one reads between the lines, one can see traces of the original timing amongst the corruption. Using Gregorian to Hijri converters, Muharam 1 of the first year of the new era converts to the first new moon crescent after the summer solstice. So originally the marker for the beginning of the year was the summer solstice. If the actual start of Muhrram was the scorching full-moon (shahr ramadhan) then indeed the Muslims would have fasted in the days leading up to and including the tenth of the first month (Muharram). At that time people would have still known the ramadhan/scorching full moon as the event marking the start of Muharram and not as the name of the month. Also, by its name ?Muharam? would make more sense as the first of the restricted period and not the third.
There was definitely no break between the Muslims and the Jews. The relationship soured during the Abbasid period and this is when those traditions about the Jews were invented. On the other hand, the Romans and the Jews themselves speak of a very strong alliance between the Jews and the Arabs well into the Umayyad period. For example, here is what the Jewish Rabbi Simon ben Yohai wrote around 680CE- describing the second king of the Arabs ('Umar I)
?The second king who arises from Ishmael will be a lover of Israel. He restores their breaches and the breaches of the Temple. He hews Mount Moriah, makes it level and builds a mosque (hishtahawaya) there on the Temple rock, as it is said "Your nest is set in the rock."? (Source Hoyland, Seeing Islam as Others Saw it).
Umar was clearly a champion of Zionism. The Romans equally talk in their writings about being invaded by an alliance between the Jews and the Arabs. They speak for example about the Jews and the Arabs upon defeating them and entering Jerusalem going to a place that the Romans used as a dump and cleaning it up and building two shrines side by side, one for the Arabs and one for the Jews. For all we know, Umar himself might have been an Arab-Jew who converted but still harbored Zionist ideas.
I think that the corruption of the timing can be understood in light of this relationship between the Jews and the Arabs (who reverted to their pagan tendencies after the death of the prophet). I briefly provided some thoughts here
http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9188.msg220236#msg220236
Peace,
Ayman
3510 Whosoever is seeking pride, then know that to God belongs all Pride. To Him ascend the good words, and they are exalted by the good deeds. And as for those who scheme evil, they will have a painful retribution, and their scheming will fail.
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Peace quickduck,
You are shaking hand with the devil.
358 The one whose evil work is adorned and he sees it as being good. God thus misguides whom he wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.
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I would just like to add something to the discussion on the real meaning of Ramadan. I have just read a book entitled "Islam a concise introduction" by Neal Robinson and according to him, Ramadan does indeed mean "scorcher" and in pre-Islamic Arabia, since the Arabs operated with a luni-solar year, it was a direct reference to the midsummer month. After arriving in Medina, Mohammad ordered his followers to fast on Ashura (the Jewish Day of Atonement). Shortly afterwards, Ashura was identified with the tenth of Muharram (the first month of the Muslim Year). However, after the Muslims broke up with the Jews, the obligatory month-long fast of Ramadan was instituted and the observance of Ashura became optional. Here is how Neal Robinson explains it
1- prescribed fasting on the Jewish Day of Atonement. The reference to "days" implied that the Muslims also fasted in the period leading up to it. In addition to Ashura, they may have fasted on the first three days of every month, as some traditions suggest.
2- was added, instituting the fast of Ramadan.
3- was added to make clear that fasting should not begin before dawn.In addition, shortly before the Prophet died, he received a revelation which abolished the lunisolar calendar and replaced it with a purely lunar one. This had the effect of making Ramadan migrate through the seasons as it does now.
For those who don't know, the break between the Muslims and Jews occured as a result of Mohammad's followers attacking a caravan in Medina, which resulted in bloodshed. Hostilities began to arise between the two groups, and according to the author, God ordered the Muslims to distinguish themselves from the Jews this is why the qibla changed from Jerusalem to Mecca, and the days of fasting changed from the Ashura to the Ramadan that we know today.Another interesting remark according to Neal Robinson, some commentators cite a tradition to the effect that the first Christians were ordered to fast in Ramadan, but that finding this too arduous, they moved the fast to the spring and extended it by twenty days as a penance for what they have done. From what I have understood, the writer does not find this account historically accurate (?).
I hope that I was clear enough for everyone to understand. I am only relating what I read, in case someone might be interested in a different view.
Peace,
Muse
496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
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Piece of advice, don't act like a cronie if you don't want to get bullied in this thread. rotfl
Peace Rami
Very childish, sound like a playground bully. If you want to do that sort of thing, I am sure you are in the wrong chat room, try yahoo.
Peace
Hope
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358 The one whose evil work is adorned and he sees it as being good. God thus misguides whom he wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.
Say Surely Allah makes him who will go astray, and guides to Himself those who turn (to Him).
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Peace Nabil,
I have been very confused and messed up too in my life, you know, so I do tend to forgive up to a large point.
Again off track, Jinns' cosmogony in the Quran convinces me that they are other beings, and in fact the truth about them is probably far more fantastic than I may imagine, and among other things they seem to have the ability to seep into humans dna in subjects of particular weaknesses/boodlines, but this is very classified research results.I would be interested in learning more from you. Generally speaking though, I have found the universal concepts talked about in the great reading surprisingly easy to understand once one gets to see beyond preconceptions. So my intuition tells me that "jinn" is similarly something that everyone can empiricaly verify in their everyday lives without the need to look into DNA or any highly classified research.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Hope4,
Very childish, sound like a playground bully. If you want to do that sort of thing, I am sure you are in the wrong chat room, try yahoo.
I think that you misunderstood Rami. He was actually laughing at the paranoid attitude of Progressive1993 (and now Farida) against Muse or anyone that thinks of questioning (or as in the case of Muse simply sharing others' views) on the traditional arbitrary timing.
Peace,
Ayman
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Peace Hope4,
I think that you misunderstood Rami. He was actually laughing at the paranoid attitude of Progressive1993 (and now Farida) against Muse or anyone that thinks of questioning (or as in the case of Muse simply sharing others' views) on the traditional arbitrary timing.
Peace,
Ayman
3543 Arrogance on Earth, and evil scheming. And the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Were they expecting anything different from the ways used on the people of the past? You will not find any change in God's way, and you will not find any bypass to God's way.
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Peace Hope4,
I think that you misunderstood Rami. He was actually laughing at the paranoid attitude of Progressive1993 (and now Farida) against Muse or anyone that thinks of questioning (or as in the case of Muse simply sharing others' views) on the traditional arbitrary timing.
Peace,
Ayman
Peace Ayman
Thankyou for pointing that out to me and may Rami please accept my appologies. peace
Peace
Hope
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Peace Ayman
Thankyou for pointing that out to me and may Rami please accept my appologies. peace
Peace
Hope
You can only warn him who follows the reminder, and reverences the Almighty while unseen. Give him good news of forgiveness and a generous reward.
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Peace Ayman,
I think some of us here have issues (cough cough ~##)
anyways classified means classified... (a hint Monsanto)...
as for preconceptions, the Quran in several numerous descriptions of Jinns in many contexts
does not leave much room but to accept that they are beings, albeit from another realm time/space
continuum adjacent/contiguous to ours, it is like us living in 2D and them in 3D so they have an extra edge,
but it could be far more complex, especially if as it has been put forward by some, they are plasma beings.
Of course you are very materialistic and minimalistic in your views so whatever you cannot see, or break
down into a smallest denominator you will disregard.
I am the opposite, looking at things as possibilities, otherwise, why do I believe in Allah whom I do not see,
it is not such a big leap that if He advises me that there are beings out there who are beyond the frequency range of
my vision or senses, I will as a matter of fact believe Him, one follows the other.
And indeed I am convinced this is what it is, they operate beyond frequency ranges that our senses and instruments can measure,
and they are able to lower their frequencies to morph into our realm to manipulate when/if they can.
This is why Allah asks us to protect ourselves against the devious among them.
Now on a conspiratorial note, some believe that there is an ongoing program to make humans even more susceptible to these
jinns manipulations with GM food, and psychotropic medicines and dna manipulations.
The Quran does prophesise that humans will in the future modify God's creation, and it is happening... -
You can only warn him who follows the reminder, and reverences the Almighty while unseen. Give him good news of forgiveness and a generous reward.
Peace Farida
You seem to be talk in riddles, whats your problem? I suggest you are spending too much time on the internet. May I suggest a life!
Peace
Hope
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Peace Farida
You seem to be talk in riddles, whats your problem? I suggest you are spending too much time on the internet. May I suggest a life!
Peace
Hope
When the Qur'an is read, listen to it with attention, and hold your peace that ye may receive Mercy.
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Ah, lovely. A ramadhan thread has been turned into Sunday service.
Peace Ayman,
I think some of us here have issues (cough cough ~##)
anyways classified means classified... (a hint Monsanto)...
as for preconceptions, the Quran in several numerous descriptions of Jinns in many contexts
does not leave much room but to accept that they are beings, albeit from another realm time/space
continuum adjacent/contiguous to ours, it is like us living in 2D and them in 3D so they have an extra edge,
but it could be far more complex, especially if as it has been put forward by some, they are plasma beings.
Of course you are very materialistic and minimalistic in your views so whatever you cannot see, or break
down into a smallest denominator you will disregard.
I am the opposite, looking at things as possibilities, otherwise, why do I believe in Allah whom I do not see,
it is not such a big leap that if He advises me that there are beings out there who are beyond the frequency range of
my vision or senses, I will as a matter of fact believe Him, one follows the other.
And indeed I am convinced this is what it is, they operate beyond frequency ranges that our senses and instruments can measure,
and they are able to lower their frequencies to morph into our realm to manipulate when/if they can.
This is why Allah asks us to protect ourselves against the devious among them.
Now on a conspiratorial note, some believe that there is an ongoing program to make humans even more susceptible to these
jinns manipulations with GM food, and psychotropic medicines and dna manipulations.
The Quran does prophesise that humans will in the future modify God's creation, and it is happening...Peace,
Don't take this as a charge;but, what does this have to with ramadan? I am, simply, trying to follow this thread.
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Peace All,
I decided not to argue anymore in this thread
Farida decided to tell us good byeI rest my case. Good bye everyone .
Surprisingly, she gave her login/password to that Grown Beard Imam to continue posting on her name. Let's see if it is correct...
The ones who listen to what is being said, and then follow the best of it. These are the ones whom God has guided, and these are the ones who possess intelligence.
You can only warn him who follows the reminder, and reverences the Almighty while unseen. Give him good news of forgiveness and a generous reward.
3543 Arrogance on Earth, and evil scheming. And the evil schemes only backfire on those who scheme them. Were they expecting anything different from the ways used on the people of the past? You will not find any change in God's way, and you will not find any bypass to God's way.
496 O you who believe, if a wicked person comes to you with any news, then you shall investigate it. Lest you harm a people out of ignorance, then you will become regretful over what you have done.
358 The one whose evil work is adorned and he sees it as being good. God thus misguides whom he wills, and He guides whom He wills. So do not let yourself grieve over them. God is fully aware of what they are doing.
Farida has definitly turned onto a FULLY GROWN BEARD IMAM.
Forget the old bankrupt Farida, it's now up to the imam to Curse and Scare those who come to this forum seeking the truth !
Pathetic !!