IS EARTH STATIONARY/FIXED?

hafeez_kazi

Peace

I have come across three verses in the Quran which says that the earth is stationary/fixed. This is by no means that I want to prove that the earth is stationary but want to understand the deeper meaning of the verses.

Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving 3541 (Pickthall)

Zay-Waw-Lam = it went away, passed away, departed/removed/shifted, ceased to exist, came to naught, become remote, to turn/swerve, quit, motion/commotion.
Zaalataa (prf. 3rd p.f. dual.) They twain swerve away, come to naught
Tazuula (prf. 3rd p.f. sing.) She swerves away, comes to naught
Tazuulaa Swerve away, come to naught
Zawaal (v.n.) Fall; Passing away (LANES LEXICON)

And among His Signs is this, that heaven and earth stand by His Command then when He calls you, by a single call, from the earth, behold, ye (straightway) come forth 3025

STAND to stop or remain motionless or steady on the feet a cessation of motion halt or stop.

Qaf-Ra-Ra = to be or become cool, remain quiet, be steadfast, be firm, refresh, be stable, be firm, receive satisfy, affirm, agree, settle, last. qarar - stability, a fixed or secure place, depository, place ahead. qurratun - coolness, delight. aqarra (vb. 4) - to confirm, cause to rest or remain. istaqarra (vb. 10) - to remain firm. mustaqirrun - that which remains firmly fixed or confirmed, in hiding, is lasting, which certainly comes to pass, which is settled in its being/goal/purpose. mustaqar - firmly fixed/established, sojourn, abode. qurratun - coolness, refreshment, source of joy and comfort. qawarir (pl. of qaruratun) - glasses, crystals. LANES LEXICON)

Is not He (best) Who made the earth fixed place and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! (An-Naml 61)

Allah it is Who appointed for you the earth a dwelling-place and the sky for a canopy, and fashioned you and perfected your shapes, and hath provided you with good things. Such is Allah, your Lord. Then blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds! (Ghaafir 64)

Is the translation correct? Does the verses convey the message that the earth is stationary? YOUR HELP IS NEEDED.

FreedomStands

I take it as a reference to its stable existence.

Zulf

I see that it says that we should recognize that our world is not just a random heap of molecules that exists by itself. I see that it says that we should acknowledge the governing power of the world. We should see a deliberate design.

huruf

If God stops supportings anything that exists, that thing will exist no more. Every single second of every single atom is sustained and made to function by God.

A caravan can be a fixed place for living.

Salaam

unknownuser

Salaam ualaikum,

We have to remember that the Quran was meant for everyone, and it is written in a way so that the common man/human understands. Of course the Earth is stable, but it doesnt mean that no part of it is moving, there is constant activity at the tectonic plate level causing earthquakes from time to time. But to the common observer, the earth is fixed and stable! Otherwise we'd be on a constant quake!

It's the same concept with the earth being flattened or a wide expanse, to the average observer, it is flat! You don't get the feeling of standing trying to balance yourself on an uneven surface.

When you just grab on a single word without sensing the gist of the Quran you take a literal meaning which is not being conveyed at all. Like in the other thread, taking the Earth to be flattened literally. Sister huruf made a good point, then what on earth are mountains doing? Taking it further, what are slopes highlands and lowlands? Do all of these constitute a flat surface too?

Anyway (not being personal here, just sharing a general observation) my point is that taking a meaning of a word and understanding it based on its own meaning(s) alone without understanding the gist or context of the message being conveyed is not the best idea, much less showing signs of understanding/intelligence.

amin

The earths, Sun, Moon and everything around us supports life sustenance here in earth and all are interlinked with one another, one helps the other. If anyone deviates a little then life is 0.
This total setup cannot be deviated.

by the way flat doesnt mean fixed or firm, its the gravity that holds everything together in the earth. If its not gravity, even its flat one can slide up or down or anywhere.

Man_of_Faith

Salam brother hafez,

All three words the translators chose the wrong definitions for.

Zay-Waw-Lam is supposed to use "pass away/go away" and signify that GOD sustains the world and if GOD did not do so they would cease.

Qaf-Waw-Miim means mindfully/follow the commands. Hence the use with al-salawateh in meaning mindful/follow guidance. Qum signifies expression/action not remain in place. Qum refers to being attentive.

Qaf-Ra-Ra is supposed to mean a solid surface and not like Jupiter's surface or like other gas giants.

Although all three examples probably suffer from the usual weak interpretation that haunts Quran.

Be well

reel

The earths, Sun, Moon and everything around us supports life sustenance here in earth and all are interlinked with one another, one helps the other. If anyone deviates a little then life is 0.
This total setup cannot be deviated.

by the way flat doesnt mean fixed or firm, its the gravity that holds everything together in the earth. If its not gravity, even its flat one can slide up or down or anywhere.

Salam brother hafez,

All three words the translators chose the wrong definitions for.

Zay-Waw-Lam is supposed to use "pass away/go away" and signify that GOD sustains the world and if GOD did not do so they would cease.

Thanks brothers, that was pretty straightforward answer. The verse was surely metaphysical in tone. It answers why everything has a law.

As for earth running or fixed, this is one verse explains it all.

It is Allah who erected the heavens without pillars that you see; then He established Himself above the Throne and made subject the sun and the moon, each running for a specified term. He arranges matter; He details the signs that you may, of the meeting with your Lord, be certain.132

Also see
Yasin/40
It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day, and they all swim in an orbit.

Enbiya/33
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon all (of them) swim in an orbit.

I quoted these verses from a Turkish interpretation of Koran. In the interpretation, the footnote written below the verse Enbiya/33 is as follows ?Although only two celestial bodies are mentioned, it is stated through a verb tense which is used for more than two things that all of them swim in a separate orbit. It can be inferred from this that all celestial bodies, together with the Sun and Moon, move in an orbit unique to them?.

This interpretation which is indeed applicable for the Enbiya/33 also applies to Yasin/40. Because, Arabic translation of the part translated as ?all of them swim in an orbit? in both verses is exactly the same ?k?ll?n f felekiy yesbehun?.

sourcehttp//www.quran-miracle.info/Earth-Rotates.htm

JavaLatte

The Creator (whom they are seeking to mask) made this Earth fixed and firm for you, and put up two lamps, one for the night and one for the day, then covered the earth with an invisible firmament, and then challenged you to pierce it.

Bold This is very suitable with the Qur'an.

The truth is there (in the Qur'an), straight and clear.

I hope you will uphold honesty in this issue, brother hafeez kazi.

Wakas

peace hk, all,

I have not studied this but

QRR does not seem to imply a motionless thing, or only that, see other usage, e.g. see 1426 for example.

3541 doesn't imply motionless to me

3025 From His signs is that the heavens and the earth will stand/arise/establish/maintain by His command. Then, when He calls you forth from the earth, you will come out.

"stand" is not the only option, and also the latter underline implies some sort of reference to end times perhaps. If so, implying prior to that, the earth was not standing (if one interpreted it as standing). So in actuality, this verse could be interpreted to mean it was moving prior. However, without further research it's hard to say.

hafeez_kazi

Peace Wakas

QRR does not seem to imply a motionless thing, or only that, see other usage, e.g. see 1426 for example.

Do you mean STABLE/STABILITY .1426

stable adjective

(of an object or structure) not likely to give way or overturn; firmly fixed.

synonyms firm, solid, steady, secure, fixed, strong, fast, stout, sturdy, safe, moored, anchored, stuck down, immovable, well built, well constructed, substantial
"a very stable tent"

Is not He (best) Who made the earth fixed place and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! (An-Naml 61)

The only meaning that is in agreement with the verse is SOLID which brother MOF also agrees.

Qaf-Ra-Ra is supposed to mean a solid surface and not like Jupiter's surface or like other gas giants.

3025 From His signs is that the heavens and the earth will stand/arise/establish/maintain by His command. Then, when He calls you forth from the earth, you will come out.

STAND in the above verse cannot be literal but metamorphic.

stand and arise both are nearly same. What will the heavens and the earth establish/maintain by the command of Allah. eg Mankind establish the salat, and maintain building/mosque etc. Further details will be highly appreciated

3541 doesn't imply motionless to me

Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving 3541 (Pickthall)

Zay-Waw-Lam = it went away, passed away, departed/removed/shifted, ceased to exist, came to naught, become remote, to turn/swerve, quit, motion/commotion.
Zaalataa (prf. 3rd p.f. dual.) They twain swerve away, come to naught
Tazuula (prf. 3rd p.f. sing.) She swerves away, comes to naught

Tazuulaa
Swerve away, come to naught
Zawaal (v.n.) Fall; Passing away (LANES LEXICON)

The purpose of holding the heavens and the earth is only that they should SWERVE not. All other meaning of ZWL does not fit in the context.

http//snag.gy/uVuwv.jpg

My understanding, which is contradictory to science, is that Allah is holding the heavens and the earth lest they deviate and if they deviate (then the whole universe will be in disarray) then there will be one other than Allah to hold them (back again)

This I believe is a reminder to mankind

Peace brother Mof

Qaf-Ra-Ra is supposed to mean a solid surface and not like Jupiter's surface or like other gas giants.

Agreed bravo

Qaf-Waw-Miim means mindfully/follow the commands. Hence the use with al-salawateh in meaning mindful/follow guidance. Qum signifies expression/action not remain in place. Qum refers to being attentive.

TAQUM is among the signs of Allah.

Zay-Waw-Lam is supposed to use "pass away/go away" and signify that GOD sustains the world and if GOD did not do so they would cease.

Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving 3541 (Pickthall)

There is some purpose some reason for Allah holding the heavens and the earth. It may be that Allah does not want the heavens and the earth to pass away/go away/deviate till the trumpet is blown or Last day. Allah further says that if they pass away/go away/deviate then there is none other than Allah to hold them. It implies that the whole universe will be in disarray if they pass away/go away/deviate and then there will be none who can hold them back again. This is a reminder to mankind

Would you please clarify what is passing away/going away of the heavens and the earth.

Thanks

Zulf

Bold This is very suitable with the Qur'an.

The truth is there (in the Qur'an), straight and clear.

I hope you will uphold honesty in this issue, brother hafeez kazi.

So what's the relationship between the lamps and the firmament? Are the lamps hanging in/on the firmament or somewhere else? I appears that the lamps where put in place before the firmament was created.

Wakas

peace hk,

I was thinking of "stable/stability" yes.
Can you clarify why such a meaning cannot fit in the verse in question?

stand and arise both are nearly same. What will the heavens and the earth establish/maintain by the command of Allah. eg Mankind establish the salat, and maintain building/mosque etc. Further details will be highly appreciated

It depends on how you interpret it, for example "maintain" seems to work fine, i.e. the heavens and earth will maintain/uphold (i.e. endure) until God makes the call, perhaps explaining the latter part of the verse.

Re 3541
You seem to be suggesting "holding" means "motionless". If so, I disagree, as that is not explicit and simply one interpretation. I can hold something and still move and/or move my hand. It suggests to me they do not swerve/deviate from their orbits/course etc that God made for them, i.e. they are held in place.

hafeez_kazi

Peace wakas

I was thinking of "stable/stability" yes.
Can you clarify why such a meaning cannot fit in the verse in question?

let me clarify. I said "All other meaning of ZWL does not fit in the context" 3541 not this verse.

Is not He (best) Who made the earth solid/stable and placed rivers in the folds thereof, and placed firm hills therein, and hath set a barrier between the two seas? Is there any Allah beside Allah? Nay, but most of them know not! (An-Naml 61)

Both stable and solid fits in the context

I opted one of the the synonyms of stable (soild) only because Allah has described the earth the other times as spread out, wide expanse, smooth/level, enrich, so solid will be another description of the earth that will differentiate it from other planets.

It depends on how you interpret it, for example "maintain" seems to work fine, i.e. the heavens and earth will maintain/uphold (i.e. endure) until God makes the call, perhaps explaining the latter part of the verse.

The only hitch in this verse is that TAQUM is one among the signs of Allah which according to you the verse is in future tense. I believe all the signs of Allah are for the mankind either to see or understand and ponder over it. Some thing in future cannot be a sign for mankind. All signs of Allah are mentioned from verse 20 to 25 and all are either present or past.

The later part of the verse have absolutely no connection with the former part. There is zero message of the verse. In the first part Allah says that the earth TAQUM by His command, then in the second part He says that, then when He calls you forth from the earth you will come out. I could not understand anything what Allah wants to convey in this verse.

Even if it is present tense then also TAQUM (stand/arise/maintain/establish) is not appropriate. There should be some other meaning of TAQUM which we do not find in the lexicons. I am thinking what is the TAQUM of the earth by the command of Allah which is one among His signs. I am concentrating on this angle.

It suggests to me they do not swerve/deviate from their orbits/course etc that God made for them, i.e. they are held in place.

Now I disagree even with swerve/deviate because the heavens are a canopy/ceiling therefore they do not have any course so that they deviate/swerve.

Thanks

runninglikezebras

Quran speaks about the earth not from a geocentric perspective nor from a heliocentric one. Consider how our solar system travels through the universe. The path of the earth and planets as they travel with the sun through space is much like a vortex (helical model).

https//www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooITrws

This is what Quran means with fixed.

Peace

Man_of_Faith

Hail Hafez,

T - qum

on a verb as prefix simply is part of a predicate, i.e. it brings the speaking of a subject that the subject caused the action of the verb. It is so a Classical Arabic speaker and listener know what they are speaking about. "X caused verb effect". This is a direct consequence of the subject.

Because this passage probably does not speak of the same thing as in the traditional interpretation, the on likely refers to ayat mentioned earlier in the sentence that stretches over more than one passage.

You can compare that to Shu'ayb's passage about his salatek t - amrek. The here is part of the predicate of his salatek. The prefix takes the form depending on the type of subject. The salat makes him determined as a consequence.

That means T- qum does not change the meaning of qum the slightest only telling that caused the effect of the verb.

And the real meaning of qum is to be mindful/attentive (expressed in mind). Qum al-salat means "to be mindful of al-salat" and thus pay attention to it. (Since salah means literally the following it is not very strange.) That explains the T on qum too because the reader in the passage is supposed to behold the signs/parables in GOD's marvelous narration.

Eventually I am going to release a book on real Classical Arabic grammar.

About the passing away it appears to mean that unless the Sustainer (Rabb) "grasps" the planets, i.e. so-called gravity, they would just fly away here and there. I interpret it as natural laws in this case.

Be well

Wakas

peace hk,

The only hitch in this verse is that TAQUM is one among the signs of Allah which according to you the verse is in future tense.

No. In my previous reply, I offered a rendition which is present tense. However, prior to that I said it could be interpreted several ways, one example being future tense.

Some thing in future cannot be a sign for mankind.

What about signs that discuss the end times, j-day, after we die, prophecies, etc - or do they not exist in Quran?

Your two statements below are not compatible

The later part of the verse have absolutely no connection with the former part. There is zero message of the verse.

Absolute statement, implying definitive understanding of verse.

Vs.

I could not understand anything what Allah wants to convey in this verse.

Implying no understanding of verse.

Now I disagree even with swerve/deviate because the heavens are a canopy/ceiling therefore they do not have any course so that they deviate/swerve.

Perhaps you can clarify, as per Quran, what you are referring to by "heavens"?

mmkhan