l Khamr wal Miseyr- Alcohol and Gambling
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The problem is the magical value attributed to things like haram and halal, which instead of being words to teach and guide, become words that dispen se people from hving to think and rule themselves and take responsibility for their acts and decisions. Avoid is also the prohibition of not avoiding in a sense. But when yous ay it is not forbidden there is the automatic reaction to think that it is "halal". Of course it is not halal, it is something else. It is not even a question of black and white where you have in between all the shades of grey. It is rather something of a different order and which exacts a different attitude, which in fact with the avoid word much is imlied like tht it is not s matter of coming in contact with khamr and suddenly stopping and saying it is "haram", but a much reflected and watching attitude to anything that might lead to drinking spirits.
I think that oversimplification of haram versus halal that is at the origin of the moral lazyness of thinking through about our whole attitude to spirits a other thinls.
Salaam
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The problem is the magical value attributed to things like haram and halal, which instead of being words to teach and guide, become words that dispen se people from hving to think and rule themselves and take responsibility for their acts and decisions. Avoid is also the prohibition of not avoiding in a sense. But when yous ay it is not forbidden there is the automatic reaction to think that it is "halal". Of course it is not halal, it is something else. It is not even a question of black and white where you have in between all the shades of grey. It is rather something of a different order and which exacts a different attitude, which in fact with the avoid word much is imlied like tht it is not s matter of coming in contact with khamr and suddenly stopping and saying it is "haram", but a much reflected and watching attitude to anything that might lead to drinking spirits.
I think that oversimplification of haram versus halal that is at the origin of the moral lazyness of thinking through about our whole attitude to spirits a other thinls.
Salaam
Peace
Just what is not clear from this verse 47/15 especially in respect of Khamr? "Rivers of Wine, a joy to those who drink. Are you really saying that "So Avoid" means neither haram nor halal?.
I do not find Allah's words ambiguous. Please read 47/15 in full.Peace
almarh0m
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Peace
Just what is not clear from this verse 47/15 especially in respect of Khamr? "Rivers of Wine, a joy to those who drink. Are you really saying that "So Avoid" means neither haram nor halal?.
I do not find Allah's words ambiguous. Please read 47/15 in full.Peace
almarh0m
Do you realize what the Qur'an is talking about though? The drink in paradise does not cause drunkenness, you remain sober, meaning it does not have the effect of alcohol that exists in this world which is the reason it is dangerous or bad. If alcohol did not cause any problems with the mental functioning or other harms, then what would the problem be? What Allah has told people to avoid is for their own benefit, so that they may prosper in doing so. If you want to drink alcohol badly, go for it, and you'll be the one who suffers for it too.
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Peace All,
Where exactly does it say that it doesn't cause drunkenness in heaven?
Imraan
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It is wiser to avoid strong drink, but it is not explicitly forbidden.
It is also detrimental to eat sugar, even if it does not affect in the same way.
There is a choice in life to make about what is important.
Be well
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Peace All,
Where exactly does it say that it doesn't cause drunkenness in heaven?
Imraan
Here
5619
Not they will get headache therefrom and not they will get intoxicatedThank you for your question. Most people on this website seem to know jack squat about the Qur'an or Islam.
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Peace,
4715 speaks to khamr. 5619 doesn't. Khamr, by definition would be intoxicating.
Imraan
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Peace,
4715 speaks to khamr. 5619 doesn't. Khamr, by definition would be intoxicating.
Imraan
Drink as you please Imraan.
The point is, alcohol intoxicates and causes a headache and messes with the inhibitions and mental functioning of a person which makes it immediately dangerous and harmful, as evidenced by reality.
It is has no point in referring to intoxication if it is not referring to a drink in resemblance and saying "they won't get headaches or intoxicated from it" come on man.
The point is that it makes it clear what the bad qualities are that are removed from the drink in the paradise.
al-Waqi`ah 5619 - Islam Awakened
(Word by Word), Not they will get headache therefrom and not they will get ... Shakir, They shall not be affected with headache thereby, nor shall they get ...
islamawakened.com/quran/56/19/
as-Saffat 3747 - Islam Awakened
M. M. Pickthall, Wherein there is no headache nor are they made mad ... Dr. Laleh Bakhtiar, In that is neither headache, nor are they intoxicated by it. -
FreedomStands,
What does my comment have to do with drinking as I please?
My point is that where khamr is used, the effect of concealment forms part of the meaning.
That is why you will not find a negation of concealment when khamr is used.
Further, when khamr is used in 2219, the benefit and harm relates to the effect itself, not some use that does not involve the effect of concealment. For example, there are mind altering drugs used for psychiatric patients in which the mind altering component is where the benefits actually lie. Also, people having trouble sleeping have the option of many drugs or even an alcoholic drink where the concealing effect is where the benefit actually lies.
So if you're intent on accusing everyone of wanting to drink freely feel free to ignore my comments and leave it to those who are interested in a productive discussion to reply.
Peace.
Imraan
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FreedomStands,
What does my comment have to do with drinking as I please?
My point is that where khamr is used, the effect of concealment forms part of the meaning.
That is why you will not find a negation of concealment when khamr is used.
Further, when khamr is used in 2219, the benefit and harm relates to the effect itself, not some use that does not involve the effect of concealment. For example, there are mind altering drugs used for psychiatric patients in which the mind altering component is where the benefits actually lie. Also, people having trouble sleeping have the option of many drugs or even an alcoholic drink where the concealing effect is where the benefit actually lies.
So if you're intent on accusing everyone of wanting to drink freely feel free to ignore my comments and leave it to those who are interested in a productive discussion to reply.
Peace.
Imraan
What is productive about someone making the implication that it is perfectly well and good to drink alcohol. You made another thread about drugs too? So if what you want to do is those things, then leave other people out of it and don't be a part in misguiding them towards doing these harmful substances.
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Like I said, FreedomStands, feel free to ignore my comments rather than misquote what I am saying.
Peace Out.
To others, would anyone care to discuss the actual merits of my posts?
Imraan
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Like I said, FreedomStands, feel free to ignore my comments rather than misquote what I am saying.
Peace Out.
To others, would anyone care to discuss the actual merits of my posts?
Imraan
Is there any merit in someone trying to tell people that it is alright to consume intoxicants and that the Qur'an does not say that intoxicants and games of chance are to be avoided?
Is that what you're after with your statements or what? Just be clear again with what your intentions are here.
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Can anyone tell me if anything made halal in Quran leads to addiction?
Nothing that I know of, except addiction to acrobatics of course.
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FreedomStands, I think I've made my point abundantly clear. Make of it what you wish.
Peace.
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Forgot to add the details, I mean halal things that would give us liver damage?
Yep, I agree. I think anything that is harmful would disqualify from the "wholesome" or good things, and I think we should study and try to make a good diet for ourselves, but even the bad stuff like fatty stuff or whatever is fine, but then a person might go into excess and hurt themselves with something.
Life is pretty easy and simple, just do what seems best and most sensible, apparently that is so difficult for people!
What Allah has suggested to avoid is all dangerous and harmful stuff. Pork has dangerous lectins for all blood types, eating rotten animals that have died on their own is dangerous, blood consumption, and whatever else all have real dangers.
There is nothing senseless in the Qur'an like "keep a beard" or anything like that.
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Yep, I agree. I think anything that is harmful would disqualify from the "wholesome" or good things, and I think we should study and try to make a good diet for ourselves, but even the bad stuff like fatty stuff or whatever is fine, but then a person might go into excess and hurt themselves with something.
Life is pretty easy and simple, just do what seems best and most sensible, apparently that is so difficult for people!
What Allah has suggested to avoid is all dangerous and harmful stuff. Pork has dangerous lectins for all blood types, eating rotten animals that have died on their own is dangerous, blood consumption, and whatever else all have real dangers.
There is nothing senseless in the Qur'an like "keep a beard" or anything like that.
Lol, it seems that some people feel alcohol is okay in Islam because Allah didn't explicitly say it is HARAM
Being in Islam meaning using the head. But I guess some are still stuck to bukhari days of haram and halal.
Check http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10889.0 -
Lol, it seems that some people feel alcohol is okay in Islam because Allah didn't explicitly say it is HARAM
Being in Islam meaning using the head. But I guess some are still stuck to bukhari days of haram and halal.
Check http//free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=10889.0Yep. Raping babies is not explicitly mentioned either as haram or halal, I guess its a gray area, especially when I'm through with it!
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Yep. Raping babies is not explicitly mentioned either as haram or halal, I guess its a gray area, especially when I'm through with it!
;D lol
I can understand what he felt. I had a friend that started smoking, he is not yet aware about it, but nicotine impair his judgment now. Basically he fear if the nicotine supply suddenly cutted. His brain making up a story to justify his addiction by saying things like, nicotine helped the poor by giving them something to feed. Nicotine helped the country by giving them tax to feed the poor, and so on, and so on. I personally, will not say anything about this, or making an objection, because I know how hard it will be if I debunk the myth.
As for me, ever I said alcohol was halal? Well, yes I did. And the argument told by the Thread Starter just exactly just I said. If only I was not an alcoholic when I first read the quran, I might use my common sense by watching people surround me, even when american movie in the 1990 so proud about their alcoholic habit.
Let's say, this is an excuse, Im too ashamed to admit for my weakness here, as for Im going to say, people just like this Thread Starter, was people who was being fooled by his own instinct. And what made me relieved is, Im not the only one, people will draw the same conclusion.But I can understand what FreedomStands see, its true, what is the point from endorsing it? If you want to get drunk, just do it, no need for justification. But that is who we are, we are naturally need an approval from our society, rather than follow the norm, we tend to manipulate them. Zheeesh, I regret saying this to my townsfolk, they suddenly cut the wine supply without any solution, I remember one of the religious people said something like this "Stop or die trying" and they are deadly serious. I heard gossip some people feed a badly craved alcoholic methanol from the tree, not dieter etyl etanol we used to drank which is from the fruit. People are dying on Indonesia.